The TV Superhero Bracket

Dave: [0:28] This is the Extra Hot Great Podcast, episode 595 for the week of December 29th, 2025. I am teen with decent mileage per gallon, David T. Cole. And I'm here with still a dumbass, Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah: [0:48] Bullshit. Dave: [0:49] And guardian of the mean streets of the town, Tara Ariano. Tara: [0:54] Shut up, hooker. Welcome to Extra Hot Great for another week. We're so glad you're here. We are doing another pre-tape. In our timeline, it's not even Halloween yet. In yours, it's New Year's Eve. What a time to be alive. We are returning to the idea of a bracket this week. We are not going with a sweet 16. That was a lot. The first time we did it, like, way longer than we thought it was going to be. So this time we decided to try to do an Elite Eight, and we came up with eight non-Marvel or DC TV superheroes. Dave and Sarah each put in three, I put in two. We're going to bracket through them in the usual brackety style, and at the end of it we will be left with one supreme TV superhero. Woo! This makes me excited. I'm excited. Thank you, J.B. Smoove. I'm excited, too. Let's get into our first thrilling matchup. We've got Jonathan Chase versus Dan Vassar. Who's Jonathan Chase, Dave? Tell us about him. Dave: [2:08] Jonathan Chase. You may know Jonathan Chase, if you know him at all, as Dr. Jonathan Chase. Wealthy, young. Tara: [2:20] A man with the brightest of futures. A man with the darkest of pasts. Dave: [2:41] Manimal. He's Manimal. Tara: [2:46] Oh. Okay. Well, Dave, so now that we know who Jonathan Chase is, what are his advantages here? Dave: [2:52] Well, he's a hawk. Sure. Except when he's a black panther. Tara: [2:56] Yep. Dave: [2:57] Those were his main two ones. But he's also a dolphin. Tara: [3:00] A bear, a bull. Right. Dave: [3:04] A snake. Tara: [3:05] Sure. Dave: [3:05] And a horse. And yes, while he's a horse, the female lead does ride him. Tara: [3:11] Thank God. Dave: [3:11] You're welcome, horse girls. Manibal did not, not follow the Incredible Hulk clothing rules. When he was done transforming, his clothes were just fine. Not speaking to the non-comic book superhero-ness of it all, but the actor's name is Simon McCorkendale, which is a superpower all to itself, if you ask me. Tara: [3:32] So many syllables. Mm-hmm. Dave: [3:33] Manimal, well-known show, mostly I'm going to guess for the portmanteau, only lasted eight episodes. One short, tiny little season. Tara: [3:41] When I learned that today, not to tip my hand, but I watched the materials that Dave provided us ahead of time. I laughed so much during the opening credits, both the transforming into a hawk segment, which was haunting. Dave: [3:53] Yeah. Tara: [3:54] And also the opening credits and went into Dave's office and said, I am an idiot. This makes me want to watch all of Manimal. And he said, there's only eight episodes. So that will be very fast. Dave: [4:04] It has that 80s compunction to show certain scenes over like a minute and a half. And they obviously spent a lot of money on their transformation. So they're going to get those money's worth. The one where he transforms into a hawk, the midpoint is basically him with an upper beak over his nose, but not yet the lower because it looks like like something from sorry to bother you or something like that. Like it's just wrong. Sarah: [4:33] Nightmare fuel. Dave: [4:34] But yeah, the transformations are great. Stan Winston, the guy who does all of them from that time. Same guy. So pluses for Manimal in the superhero thing, obviously transforms into animals. Usually a bespoke transformation if it wasn't Black Panther or Hawk. Cons, these transformations were incredibly slow. So if he actually had to do something in the moment, he's going to have a bad time. These are more classic Wolfman transformations than they are sort of today's CGI instamorphs. Again, short-lived, but he returned 15 years later on television. Anybody know the show he returned to? Tara: [5:15] No. Dave: [5:16] Nightman. Also created by Glenn A. Larson. Tara: [5:22] Fantastic. Dave: [5:23] So I'm just going to say right now, Nightman, I was my first choice for this, but then I realized he was actually a comic book superhero technically, so I couldn't use him, but we're squeezing him in here on the sly through minimal. Tara: [5:35] Very sneaky. Okay, Sarah, what are Dan's advantages here? Sarah: [5:38] Dan Vassar is our lowest seated player. He is the journeyman, the titular journeyman, which is about Dan Vassar, Kevin McKidd, finding out one day that he can time travel or that he time travels. He can't really control it short of the headache that precedes each time shift and getting his long-suffering wife, Katie, Gretchen E. Golf, to believe him. The show is notoriously not on streaming, and even if it were, it would be hard to find a single clip that sort of boils things down, but I did my best. clip one, I mean, there's more weird relationships here that function as markers so that we and Dan can tell when he is, but basically it's a quantum leap base, except that Dan still looks like and is himself in whatever timeline, and he doesn't always stay in the same time the whole episode. He jumps around in someone else's timeline in order to alter their lives. Dave: [7:04] He gets headaches. Sarah: [7:05] You know, on paper, it doesn't seem like his show lasting five episodes longer than Manimal. counts, but I mean, you'll take what you can get. He is being moved around by the universe for good as well. So he has that to compare well with the McCorkendale-McChronicles. He does adapt pretty quickly. He figures out not only in the first episode, not only roughly what's happening, even though his fellow time traveler, his dead fiance, or is she? Livia can't really give him that much intel as to how it works. He does have a team. He manages to not only figure out what's going on, but also to find a way to bury something under the porch of his house in the past so that in the present, we've heard part of the scene, but he can prove to Katie that he has been there in 1997, even though that's impossible. He is trained as a journalist and has a cop brother and a former TV journalist spouse. He can't control the power, but I'm not sure Manimal can really control it either. I was actually going to ask Dave, like, how does it, what prompts the hawketing? Dave: [8:22] Wanting to do it. And he does it, and he doesn't get a headache. Tara: [8:26] Okay. Sarah: [8:27] Okay. It's really, I was going to say chalk and cheese, but hawk and cheese. Tara: [8:31] Yeah. Nice. Sarah: [8:33] Hopefully closer. I don't know if it's a power if you really can't control it. Tara: [8:38] Yeah. Sarah: [8:38] And Manimal does sheer force of will. Tara, what are your thoughts? Tara: [8:43] Yeah, being able to control it is a big part of it. I'm glad that you mentioned Quantum Leap as a comp, because I also had Gary from Early edition on my long list and they all of these seem to be of a piece where it's like i'm getting a small piece of information about something i can potentially change for the better but dan is sort of being buffeted about by the universe like you said so how powerful he is in superhero terms i would say is probably limited whereas i mean jonathan even if it takes five minutes like i want to turn into a hawk and i'm gonna that's that's not nothing yeah ride. Dave: [9:18] Me i'm a horse. Tara: [9:19] Right i'm melody anderson get on my back take out your perm curlers i know that must have taken hours and get on me i got haunches oh god yeah so i i'm gonna vote for uh for jonathan to to move ahead in this round sure. Dave: [9:37] Uh one last thing before we get off this lineup this voice, anybody know who it is. Tara: [9:44] No william. Dave: [9:46] Conrad the fat man. Tara: [9:47] Oh Oh. How about that? Sarah: [9:49] All right. Where could I be? Tara: [9:53] Believe it or not, I'm not home. Let's go to our next round. Here's where I come into the picture. Let's talk about Cootie. That's Cootie, played by Jarrell Jerome in I'm a Virgo, the so far only one season show on Prime Video. I was going to say we talked about it last year. It was two years ago. What is time? Oh, my God. The show created by Boots Riley. And we can get into it more after Dave tells us whom Cootie is facing off with. Dave: [11:05] Well, this is going to be a tough matchup. I think this is one of the biggest non-comic book superhero types on television, at least in my nostalgic existence. And that is Steve Austin. And he, the six million dollar man, Lee Majors as the six million dollar man, one of the quintessential 70s characters on television, a show that I was sitting in front of the television half an hour before I even started, ready for the six million dollar man. My probably my first like TV love that I can actually remember getting like super excited for. So $60 million man, you know, he was an astronaut, had a bad time on the rocket, crashed down, didn't look like he was going to make it. But we have the technology to make him greater, larger, smellier, all those great things. They gave him the following powers. Bionic strength. Tara: [11:55] Right. Dave: [11:58] The bionic strike. The bionic eye. The bionic throw. And Bionic running. Not only is this guy a superhero, he meets tons of larger-than-life characters along the way. We know he fought Bigfoot. He fought aliens that were the guys that brought Bigfoot to the forest. William Shatner, a character that can talk to dolphins, which is absolutely going to be a forsening as soon as I have the opportunity. Wow, that scene that I showed you guys, William Shatner, just eating everything around him. So Steve Austin, larger than life, a really silly concept, a really funny dollar amount to think of these days. But really, he's just a bionic superhero and one of my faves. Tara: [12:55] So Cootie is, you know, he wasn't exposed to anything. He doesn't have any real like specific powers other than he is 13 feet tall. He is just a natural giant who was big and has been raised by his uncle and aunt. And versed in revolutionary literature, he is very educated. He knows a lot about power. Does he have a lot of power? Kind of yes, kind of no. Like he's big. 13 feet tall is tall, more than twice the height of a tall man. But it's not so tall that he can like step on people. And when we see him in the world, like, you know, people can cling to his legs. He can like flick them off and stuff. And he has relative strength. He can press a car, for example. But he has also been extremely sheltered throughout his life. His aunt and uncle kept him hidden in his own custom-made house for his size. Dave: [13:47] The opposite of a dollhouse. Tara: [13:49] Whatever that is. That's right. Dave: [13:50] Macrohouse. Tara: [13:51] A macrohouse. In a dollhouse style, I'll say. But they were rightly concerned that as soon as anyone knew about him, he would be abducted and put to nefarious uses. And so the series is kind of about him learning about his power and community and organizing and how he can be a part of the struggle that goes on. But, you know, being educated is not the same as being experienced. And so what he knows about villainy that he can fight directly with purpose is, I would say, limited. Dave: [14:21] But it's worth saying there actually is a villain that he fights if you want to bolster your superhero, Bonavai. Tara: [14:27] That's true. There is in this world, it's sort of like the boys in that this is a real life character who lives in the world, Jay Whittle slash the hero who is played by Walton Goggins, but he's also in comic books and stuff. So he's sort of straddles both of those worlds. But yes, you're right. He has a nemesis. Dave: [14:43] All right, Sarah D. Bunting, you've heard of the arguments. Where are you going here? Sarah: [14:47] Well, I mean, the main drawback to Cootie for me is his extreme naivete and shelteredness that he, despite being able to step on his fellow humans and kill them, probably would not or would have to have it explained to him hand to hand that you can eat this guy, Steve Austin, for breakfast. Parts of him are no longer digestible, thanks to 70s technology installations, but you can eat him and should. You can also because for his powers to be activated, he has to be going at half speed, which is an advantage to anyone, even someone as sheltered as Cootie of any size. Dave: [15:32] Wait, hang on. What was the half speed thing? I didn't follow that. Tara: [15:35] When they're showing him go fast, they slow down the camera, or they slow down the film. Dave: [15:40] Not in the world in which it exists, though. Tara: [15:43] No, that's just the joke about Steve Prass. Sarah: [15:45] But in certain fight scenes, it is still like everybody is slowed down, except that's not life. Nor do they line up kung fu opponent style so that you can face them one by one. Although Cootie probably can't count on his opponents starting to giggle hysterically when confronted by the least fit bionic man on Earth. I mean, you can smell the certs and the menthol smoke coming off of everybody in this footage. And oh my God, the episodes just feel like they're in slow-mo. It's very, they're very long. I feel like that gives Cootie an advantage. I'm not sure how to articulate it, but I'm voting Cootie also because he can organize and is very interested in doing that and can create community for whatever fight is available. Yeah, Steve Austin has the government on his side in a question mark, but limited use and limited ethical appeal, in my opinion. Dave: [16:45] You're crazy. We already know he can beat up people that are much taller than him with Bigfoot. He can handle the height. He can handle the size. And he's just got a lot of things he can do. He's got surveillance. He's got punching. He's got that strike. And he's got the sound effects. Oh, my God. I mean, I love Cootie. Cootie's very cute. We all love his journey. But superhero-wise, got to give this one to Steve Austin. Tara: [17:10] Unfortunately, I have to agree. I love Cootie, too, and I would certainly much rather watch more of his adventures. I don't think the show has been properly canceled, but I don't think we're ever going to get more of them. You know, he can't really step on his opponents, especially not Steve, because he's so strong. Like, he's big, but he's not like a Jack and the Beanstalk giant. He's just a very, very large man. And he hasn't been taught how to fight the way that, you know, Steve Austin has. He's gotten all this training. Like, yeah, he's not the, you know, he's not the choice of your heart. or of my heart, I guess. Dave: [17:43] Sure. Tara: [17:43] But in terms of what actually has to get done in a superhero kind of fight, you know. Sarah: [17:50] I just, I don't know. I just don't feel, I don't, I'm not buying it. With Steve Austin, I know I'm supposed to. I made the sounds running in slow-mo on the playground same as anybody else. But like, that's kind of all the show has going for it. And when you watch it now, you're like, oh my God, this is like emphysema in a members only jacket. So anyway. Tara: [18:11] I got to give it to Steve over my own submission. But if listeners have not watched I'm a Virgo yet, they definitely should. It's a great show. Sarah: [18:18] Absolutely. Tara: [18:26] Next, we got Charlie Kale versus Brett Matthews. Sarah, tell us about Charlie Kale. Sarah: [18:33] I shall. Charlie Kale is the lead of Poker Face. If you're not familiar, the premise is that Natasha Lyonne's Charlie can tell when people are lying. That brings her to the attention of powerful Las Vegas concerns who would like to use this preternatural ability for their own capitalist ends or keep others from using it against them. Here she is in the Poker Face pilot, called to the office of Adrian Brody's fail-son casino manager Sterling Frost Jr. to clarify for him and the audience exactly what Charlie is capable of. Clip two. I'm still pretty much a dumbass, and I'm doing just fine. Sarah: [19:29] It is. Sarah: [20:05] So that is her power as it continues through the show it's put to some various uses but does come in handy i think that it has created some ancillary powers that serve her well but let's hear about her opponent and then we can get back to it. Dave: [20:20] All right her opponent is brett matthews who the hell is brett matthews you say well i don't don't blame me for not knowing but this is who brett matthews is, Brett Matthews, driving one dark and stormy night, lightning hits the road near his car, dries off a small little cliff through the wall of a government laboratory, as one does, just as a ray was firing from the giant doomsday machine that this doctor was building, molecularly bonds him with his sports car to become Turbo Teen, in which you can transform from a human being into a sports car in the most disturbing animation you will see from an 80s cartoon. Sarah: [21:21] Yeah, it's really gross and his butt is too articulated. That was upsetting. Dave: [21:26] Yeah. Two real nominations from me. And then this one, which just delighted me as a show that made it through all the roadblocks that we usually put up to stop this kind of thing from happening on television. His superpower is he gets to turn into a car. Like, what if he does that and then he has to go pee? The thing about his superpower is, for whatever reason, he just can't do it on a whim, like manimal. He has to wait for him to heat up. When he heats up, he turns into a car. When he cools down, he can then revert into his human form. So as a superhero, very limited applications. But as a road mark on the 80s, what were we thinking? Cocaine-fueled writer's room for children's animation shows. I think this is pretty good, why I wanted to bring to the table. I will say, I do love that Charlie Kale is in this game because you don't usually think of her as a superhero, but she does have that one power, defines her and the show. And even though I have problems with that as a sort of lazy writing clutch for a Columbo-esque show, I do love having her in as a superhero for this. Turboteen is ridiculous. Charlie Kale, less so. Not to like sink this before we even get to Tara, but come on. Tara. Tara: [22:45] Yeah, Turboteen is so funny. I mean, the quality of this animation, it almost brought a tear to my eye it was so deliciously stupid i i really enjoyed it but yeah charlie is like she's a person with this real superpower living in the real world now we did learn in season two that it is not completely infallible but right and part of the issue with it as in terms of driving story is that it makes charlie do reckless things that put herself in danger put the the people she's trying to help in danger sometimes real serious peril this is how you drive story. I understand that, obviously. But in terms of someone actually using a weird freak talent to try to make the world better, actually really is. And Turbo Teen is a kid that turns into a fucking car. Sarah: [23:36] He's not even old enough to rent himself. Tara: [23:39] He's not. Sarah: [23:40] People, what are we doing here? Tara: [23:42] His cortex is not fully formed. Dave: [23:44] Yes. And do you think when his friends sit in him, he gets a car boner of some sort? Tara: [23:48] Yes, of course he does. Sarah: [23:49] Oh, no. I know. Or if he gets a human boner, then he turns into a car. Like what happens to the boner? Dave: [23:57] Yeah. Sarah: [23:58] All things that. Dave: [23:59] I think it's the axle. Sarah: [24:01] Really want to contemplate. Dave: [24:03] What would the boner be? The axle, right? Sarah: [24:05] I don't know. Something coming into the carburetor? No cars. I think another point I wanted to make about Charlie is that her description of herself as a dumbass is not exactly accurate. It's more that she is able to accept whatever circumstances she's in and not be as manipulated by certain threats like of uprooting or subsistence work as other people might be. And she has shown an ability to elude bad guys' crack cases. She doesn't need 21st century technology to do it. And for someone relatively small, she is pretty intimidating, I would say, or intimidating enough. What I really want is for her and Turbo Teen to team up because she drove a vintage car for most of the shows. Tara: [24:50] That's true. Sarah: [24:51] Right? That's true. Dave: [24:52] Good point. I'd be happy with that compromise. Sarah: [24:55] That's not what we're doing here, so I'm voting Charlie. Sorry, T.T. Dave: [25:00] I mean, I just, you know, so T.T. can live another day. And by the way, one of the characters does call him T.T., the mechanic on the team. His nickname for him is T.T. Sarah: [25:08] Teets. Tara: [25:09] Nice. Sure. All right. So Charlie goes forward, correct? Dave: [25:13] Yep. Sarah: [25:13] Yes. Tara: [25:13] All right. Next up, we got Samurai Jack. Sarah: [25:25] This matchup pains me. Samurai Jack is the animated titular samurai, has defeated over the course of the program numerous robot armies, defeated and then befriended absolutely massive Scotsman three times his size, freed equine archer monks from evil spells, and traveled all through time and space looking to avenge himself on Aku, the gigantic evil entity with really a ton of flair let's face it who threw jack out of the time-space continuum basically as payback for jack's father functionally burying aku in a lake of subterranean fire or something the particulars are not terribly important here's what matters the sword itself is imbued with powers and was forged by literal gods for jack senior clip three. Sarah: [26:41] In addition to being the only weapon that can even hurt Aku, and in fact being forged for that very purpose, it cannot be used against Jack or anyone good and righteous. In the hands of evil, it cannot harm an innocent. Granted, in the hands of Jack's father, it is a little annoying and speechy, but that's not who we're here to contemplate today. Samurai Jack is a cartoon, but has discipline and the strength of 10 for his heart is pure. And according to his animators, he has a 24 pack of abs and transmission. Tara: [27:16] Well, Samurai Jack is going to be facing off against basically the opposite of that Awesome X. Awesome X is the hero of the town. Never specified. He is the alter ego of billionaire tycoon playboy Xander Cruz. So strong Batman vibes here. Dave: [27:34] In the show. Tara: [27:35] In the show Frisky Dingo. Thank you. I forget that everyone is not off book with Frisky Dingo and they should be because it's so good. Oh God, I love it so much. Sarah: [27:43] Yes. Stands. Tara: [27:45] Yes. The creator, Adam Reed, who also voices Awesome X, went on to create Archer, which was obviously much longer lived and more successful but frisky dingo is the true manic insanity that i think he should be better known for personally that's what i these things i believe but awesome x's heart is not pure he's a jerk let's hear a clip awesome. Sarah: [28:08] X awesome x awesome x what rumor has it now that you've defeated, Tivo? No, now you want Tivo. You'll finally be retiring. No, ever, ever vigilant. Dave: [28:31] I am a beacon of vigilance. Okay. Also a beacon of fighting. And now that you're retiring. Sarah: [28:36] I'm not retiring. I guess the thanks of a grateful city are yours. Oh, uh, you're welcome, city. Tara: [28:42] For Force 10 News, I'm- Thank you. Thank you, city. You're awesome. For Force 10 News, I'm Grace Ryan. And I- So, yeah, he has a lot of resources, I'll say that. A lot of what he can do is because he's rich, he can throw a lot of money at his problems. He can upgrade his tech. He's got the X-ticles, his, like, backup fighting team. That's not nothing. They've got robot pants. Very important. They can, you know, float and fly and stuff. He has a supervillain nemesis in Kill Face, also voiced by Adam Reed with a voice modulator, who is described as a naked, bone-white, red-eyed, earless, talon-toed, spur-heeled, seven-foot-tall, hairless, muscular humanoid supervillain. Who is right and who is wrong in this matchup, I would say, is a moving target over the course of the series. You know, Killface does create the Annihilatrix, but he solves global warming with it. So, you know, doing the right thing for the wrong reason, who's the real villain here, one might wonder. But if you're going on the basis of true heroism, you know, I can't say Awesome X is a better hero than Samurai Jack, but he certainly is, I would say, more charismatic. Dave? Dave: [29:54] I just want to put this out there. I believe it's the same guy, but this clip from Samurai Jack. Is that not Mojo Jojo who wants the sword and then the sword is something that Mojojo will want? Tara: [30:11] I think so. Dave: [30:12] I love that Sarah loves Samurai Jack. It is so not a show that I think you would get into. And every time it comes up, I am reminded again, once again, that you absolutely love that show. And it does tickle me. Sarah: [30:24] I contain multitudes. Dave: [30:25] Yeah, you do contain multitudes. And I think this pair up is probably the truest superhero matchup we're going to have today. These two are definitely two superheroes that have different rates of success and motivations for sure. Samurai Jack being pure of heart. Awesome X, not so much. Tara: [30:44] Yeah. Dave: [30:44] I got to go with my boy Awesome X here. I just love that show so much. And he is a superhero that is a total asshole, totally oblivious to everything. So in that, although we are getting more of it today, but in that, I feel like he breaks the mold for me in a way that I find very entertaining. If you gave both of these characters the same situation to solve, then Samurai Jack will win. For superheroes on television, like most, Awesome X will win for me. but it's closer than I would have expected when I saw this matchup because Samurai Jack is probably the truest character we have here and the most superhero-y to me. Was that late enough in the run that that wasn't Mako there or was that Mako? Sarah: [31:31] That was season three. Dave: [31:33] So I think that's before he died, right? Tara: [31:35] I think so. Dave: [31:36] Yeah. Okay, great. Tara: [31:37] Our old friend, Mako. Sarah: [31:39] It's close for me, too, but the magical sword and the fact that the exticles aren't like, I mean, is that a plus? Always? Tara: [31:47] Well. Sarah: [31:48] Not totally sure. Oh, now you want TiVo. I mean, look, I love the exticles. I love Stan. I love everything about Frisky Dingo. I'm never going back to Arizona, but it pained me, this matchup. I am going to go with Jack. Dave: [32:01] Yeah. Okay. Tara: [32:02] I mean, I really got to dig deep and ask myself, like, what qualities I'm looking for in these matchups? And so far, I've gone with watchability, honestly, other than with Cootie. I don't know. I like Samurai Jack. Certainly, the animation is much more beautiful to look at. The Awesome X, you know, Frisky Dingo is animated in the same style as Archer, where it's like very flat paintings that are, you know, barely move, sometimes blink. That's about it. Dave: [32:31] Photoshop, detect edges, bleed for all their backdrops. Tara: [32:35] Yes, yes. But I love Awesome X so much. He's such a perfect... Sarah: [32:39] I know, me too. Dave: [32:40] I think when you look back on this, when it airs in a few months, and you're like, how did I vote on that? You want to be happy, personally, with the choice you made. And there's different ways to tackle it. This is a personal thing. This is not Thunderdome. We're not putting them against each other, even though that argument comes up as a basis of comparison. But it is your metric. So figure out what that metric is. and then vote accordingly, I said. Tara: [33:01] Well, revisiting the clip that I cut for the intro, I was reminded that Awesome X is the kind of superhero who his mask doesn't cover up his hair. And I feel like that says a lot about him as a character. Sarah: [33:14] Yeah, yeah, it does. Tara: [33:15] Is this the just choice? Probably not. But the choice of my heart is Awesome X. Sorry to this, Jack. Awesome X is going to move forward. Dave: [33:24] All right. So we are through introducing all our superhero choices. And we are going to be moving into the exciting semifinal. Tara: [33:32] Indeed. So let's go on to round two. Dave: [33:44] The semifinals. Tara: [33:45] The semifinals. Our first matchup. It's Dave Pick versus Dave Pick. Jonathan Chase versus Steve Austin. Dave: [33:53] Oh, man. All right. Jonathan Chase, he is manimal. Steve Austin, he is the $6 million man. Nature versus technology. Sarah: [34:05] Yeah. Dave: [34:06] Oh, boy. Mystical energy that turns you into an animal of your choice versus walking in slow motion, making silly noises and beating up Bigfoot. It's a choice I don't relish you guys having to make, but make it we must. Tara Arianna, why don't you start us off here? Tara: [34:23] Oh my God. Well, I'm going to go straight on which was more enticing to me. And I feel like the fact that we only got eight episodes of Manimal makes the oeuvre more manageable to take on. Dave: [34:37] Point of order, nine with Nightmare. Tara: [34:38] Okay, thank you, nine. Watching the Steve Austin clip, like, I was amused, but I'm, like, just slightly younger than you guys. Steve Austin was not part of, he wasn't part of my childhood. Like, we didn't. Dave: [34:50] I'm Tara. Wah. Tara: [34:51] Wah. I'm baby. It's less I'm baby than I was broke and my mother didn't have cable. So I did not have access to the show. I was poor baby. In my formative years. Well, it's true. Okay? Sarah: [35:02] Six dollar baby. Tara: [35:04] This is my story. Dave: [35:05] Wah. Tara: [35:09] So i get why this why steve austin is nostalgic for you and i know that manimal is more of like a freak outlier of this genre of sort of 80s action show can. Dave: [35:18] I give you my three top nostalgic picks why they come up a time and time again. Tara: [35:22] Sure even. Dave: [35:23] Though they're like not great shows. Tara: [35:25] Six million dollar man is the first one a team. Dave: [35:28] And Dukes of Hazzard. Those are the three shows I was most excited for to watch as a kid. Tara: [35:31] Not Incredible Hulk? Dave: [35:32] No, I wasn't. I would definitely want to watch it, but there was something maudlin about Incredible Hulk that I did enjoy as a tale. Tara: [35:39] I still think, for me, I'm more interested in seeing a guy badly change into a hawk for several minutes than I have seen Lee Majors kick a guy in slow motion. Dave: [35:50] Right. Tara: [35:50] So I'm going to go with Jonathan Chase for this because I'm more interested in his journey as a character. Dave: [35:56] Okay, interesting, interesting. Sarah: [35:58] I found Jonathan Chase's transformation journey sort of disgusting and upsetting. I do find a lot of Steve Austin sort of risible and tiresome. But on the other hand, he meets a lot of cryptids and also Shatners. And those sound effects are kind of the whole ballgame, which is good for him because they are very cool and absolutely beautiful. Proustian in their effect on a certain... early to mid-70s born kid. Tara: [36:34] Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Sarah: [36:35] With fancy cable. Wah, wah. Just kidding. Dave: [36:38] And enough to eat every night. Tara: [36:41] And no one was feeding you glop. Sarah: [36:44] Oh, no. I was still eating glop. We just had cable also. Two things can be true. Tara: [36:50] Sure, sure. Sarah: [36:50] I could tame Samurai Jack glop multitudes. Dave: [36:53] You can have TV and glop, but not TV and meat. Sarah: [36:57] And also, I wouldn't have been allowed to watch it anyway, because it was a network drama. And my parents were like, we are dumber for even thinking about this. But I mean, Chetner talking to dolphins, I can't turn away from the siren song of the dolphins and my birthday mate. And I don't know, I just think Steve Austin is cooler. And that half hawk nose face thing that looks like an autopsy photo is still kind of fucking me up clearly. So I'm voting Stone Cold Steve Austin. Tara: [37:29] I get it. Dave: [37:30] Yeah, I was kind of hoping you guys would come to a consensus so I didn't have to choose here. Nostalgia-wise, it would definitely be Steve Austin. He's definitely more in my brain forever and ever. I can forget about Manimal for months at a time. Tara: [37:47] Heartbreaking, if true. Dave: [37:49] And also, the origin story of Steve Austin is much more palatable than the origin story for Manimal, which seems to be the deepest heart of Africa. Ooh, weird stuff. Sarah: [37:58] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, colonialism strikes again. Tara: [38:04] Yeah. Dave: [38:04] Superhero-wise, Jonathan Chase's Manimal seems more like a superhero character you would develop, right? Because he can change into things. He's a morphing person. And in superheroes and comic books, we also have robots, like cyborg, characters like that. But for me, something about, like, it's a man, he turns into an animal is very superhero-y. Tara: [38:25] Mm-hmm. Dave: [38:25] They're very close. They both act as superheroes for the good of the people. Tara: [38:31] Yeah, sure. Dave: [38:32] And solving the crimes and making villains knock it away with it. Sarah: [38:36] It's not like a reluctant superhero thing, but it's like a superhero or like powered or not empowered. Dave: [38:44] Yeah, you're right. Sarah: [38:45] Powered up via random circumstance, like wrong lightning bolt, wrong time type stuff versus engaging with technology to create a hybrid self and all these master's thesis level questions of identity. I would say that there is something super about a power that came because the spider bit you that is more super than robot pants. Dave: [39:08] Yeah, because there's like... Sarah: [39:10] But it's something to debate. Dave: [39:11] Origin stories are usually supernatural, radioactive, or technology-based, I think, for the most part. Tara: [39:17] Yeah. Dave: [39:18] So we got two of those here. Sarah: [39:19] Or electricity. Ow. Dave: [39:20] Yeah. I think they were both on the path, because we heard in the original Manimal breakdown that Simon Corkindale's character, Jonathan Chase, was sort of a playboy, and that was what he was doing. But he also had this dad that turns into hawks and shit like that. I don't quite know exactly what was going on in the intro. But anyways, his path, non-manimal life, was going to be, he's a dick. Tara: [39:43] Yeah. Dave: [39:43] And then I think Steve Austin's path was similar. He was going to be the celebrity astronaut who landed safely, and he just bones his way through the 80s before becoming too fat and gross to do anything else. Tara: [39:55] Right. Sarah: [39:55] Is this dick also bionic? Do we have any? Tara: [39:58] Great question. Sarah: [39:58] Good question. Tara: [40:00] Great question. Dave: [40:01] This is right up there with the quantum leap conundrum. yeah i don't think we know when is that episode gonna drop someone. Tara: [40:10] Has put it in. Dave: [40:11] I know there's. Tara: [40:12] One in the four sinnings. Dave: [40:13] I know so anyways getting back to the point superhero wise manimal seems more like a traditional superhero but nostalgia wise for me the better character who does more good is steve austin and you know i conjecture that he was going to be a bad astronaut celebrity but I don't know that for sure. And yes, it is slow. And yes, Steve Austin is not as fit as he would like a bionic man to be, but that's also part of the term. Sarah: [40:39] He doesn't need to be. Tara: [40:41] Right, exactly. Dave: [40:42] He's got bionic beer gut. Tara: [40:43] Well, the fact that he can do all this, he's doing all this stuff usually in like just regular pants and he doesn't split them. Like that is a superpower in itself. Dave: [40:52] Yeah. There is a great, I sent it to these two before the show as, you know, a primer for the character. But there is a flashback in the first episode to Steve Austin's first use of his bionic powers in sort of a rich people like to watch other people fight scenario. Tara: [41:08] Yeah. Dave: [41:08] And the first guy he's up against is this karate dude who immediately, as soon as they say go, starts Bruce Lee-ing his voice out the wazoo, gets one cheap shot in, Steve Austin. Then Steve Austin sort of just like palm punches him. And this guy slides over the snow for like 30 feet. You can see all the wires behind him. Tara: [41:30] It's pretty great. Dave: [41:31] And the guys in the hedges like pulling him back as fast as they can. So you get little moments like that that make it all worthwhile. Sarah: [41:38] Yep. Tara: [41:39] Anyway, I just want to tell you, Dave, we will find out whatever Jonathan Chase's whole deal is because we are going to watch Manimal. Dave: [41:44] Okay. Sarah: [41:45] Has Steve Austin moved on? Because if so, I will save my bionic cock sound effect. Dave: [41:51] Okay. Yeah. Save it. Save it for the outro. Tara: [41:53] Steve Austin proceeds. Jonathan Chase. Dave: [41:56] R.I.P. Manimal. Tara: [42:05] Next, our second matchup in the semifinals, we've got Charlie Kale versus Awesome X. Now, the problem with this matchup is that all of the douchey things I can imagine Awesome X doing and I've seen him doing, including sing Master Cylinder with an energy drink can over his genitals is something I can also easily picture Charlie doing. They are very strangely on an even playing field for this matchup, I would say. But Dave, you're the uninterested observer here. So what do you think? Dave: [42:39] Okay. Yeah. So Kale from Sarah, Awesome X from Tara. Tara: [42:42] Yes. Dave: [42:43] Me stuck in the middle going first. I like Charlie Kale for this one because it's adding something different into our mix. I like the fact that, again, she is being tagged as a superhero here. She is not obviously ever going to be tagged a superhero show. Poker face, superhero, mystery, detective show. No, superhero is not going to be in there. Tara: [43:06] But for our purposes. Dave: [43:07] But I think Sarah made a perfectly common argument by or why that is the case. And I totally agree. And Charlie Kale is one of our better characters introduced in the past five years, let's say. And that show was so on point from minute one. Newest formula has never really deviated from it. If you go back and watch the pilot now, it doesn't seem like it's embryonic in the way that a lot of these pilots can be, especially for something that's high concept, like Poker Face. Sarah: [43:37] Yeah. Dave: [43:38] So- Props to that and Charlie Kale's character was there from day one. And not only did she have that one bullshit detector that makes her a superhero in this context, she is just like a really fun character to watch, right? She is just like, has that amount of don't give a shit when it's funny, but then gives a shit when it needs to happen for the show. And that sort of play in between those two really drives episodes through their conclusion. That's all about Charlie Kale in this context. And she is the one thing that's in every episode. So she is, of course, like all starring actors, very important to the show, Natasha Lyonne. But she brings so much to this character and she has to carry the whole show on her back because she is the one thing that you're going to be seeing in each and every episode. Tara: [44:29] Mm hmm. Sarah: [44:30] I think it's an excellent point and well taken that there are certain resonances between these two characters in the doucheosity department. And I do think that Charlie would be like, oh my God, what a douche, but would have a certain, not even that grudging respect for his commitment to just Xander cruising all over his life. she absolutely would win the exticles over to her side of things and they would go off with her and they would be the kale stickles i. Dave: [45:01] Also think charlie kale would want to be a part of operation snooper facts that she would find it very funny. Sarah: [45:07] Yeah yeah. Tara: [45:10] She would answer a craigslist ad to go and participate she would have an elvis costume on yes. Sarah: [45:16] 100 and i think awesome x would in turn, or Xander Cruz, whatever badge she's under at the time, would also have that same grudging respect for like, well, everything out of my mouth is just like bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Like that's all I hear from her and she's right. And there would be this like Archerian crisis of self. But I think it would be, I mean, I wish they could kind of cross pollinate, much like her and, you know, Turbotine. Things are better with Charlie than against Charlie. But in this case, I mean, I think they're both extremely watchable, but I think that Charlie is a net better for the world in a way that Awesome X is not and is not trying to be in his sort of defense. But yeah, I got to go Charlie. Tara: [46:10] Yeah, I can't argue with anything that you said. It is sad to contemplate them having a crossover we know can never be because it would be so fun. Sarah: [46:19] I know. Dave: [46:20] That would be interesting. Tara: [46:22] It really would be interesting. Sarah: [46:23] They would just like end TV after that, that it's like it's not possible for anything to be more awesome than... yeah this awesome c. Tara: [46:30] Say this. Dave: [46:31] For awesome x since he seems like his he's on the way out he is the best worst superhero of this bracket. Tara: [46:38] Oh my god for sure oh yeah yes i can't deny that charlie is is a better character on a moral level and is a more enduring character already than he's ever going to be i mean i can imagine poker face going on in you know until she or ryan johnson dies, So as much as it pains me to say goodbye to Awesome Max, of course, Charlie has to win this matchup here. Dave: [47:09] We have arrived at the end of all things. Tara: [47:14] And naturally, our final has to be, we all could have probably foretold, just kidding, this could have gone any number of ways. But in fact, it's going this way. Steve Austin v. Charlie Kale. My God. Sarah: [47:30] I both love and hate this for all of us. What a fascinating number of dichotomies. You've got er-70s versus kind of an er-2020s show. Tara: [47:42] But with a lot of 70s flavor, definitely. Sarah: [47:45] Yes, that's true. You've got a lead character who very clearly is rushing off to the edge of the frame to smoke cigarettes. And then you have a lead character who managed to quit smoking in and out of universe. Right. Good for y'all. You have problem solving by brute force and good sound effects. And then you have problem solving by bullshit detecting and big music budget and guest star budget. Great guest stars helping you out or seeking your help on both sides. Natasha Lyonne looks better in a pair of short cutoffs and harness boots, I think, than Lee Majors did. I'm not sure we ever saw. Dave: [48:26] I don't think we're ever given the opportunity. Sarah: [48:28] And I also feel like Charlie Kale would be able to just rap with Bigfoot instead of having to kick his giant hairy ass. Tara: [48:38] Now I want to see that too. Sarah: [48:40] I know. Dave: [48:40] I could see it being part of a plot. Tara: [48:43] That's true. Not actually Bigfoot. Sarah: [48:45] Or it's just like some guy in a Chewbacca costume who tripped balls and ran into the forest and never came back from Comic-Con. What? that i know where that was. Dave: [49:01] In the soundboard right away yes. Sarah: [49:02] Yeah oh jesus the six million dollar man is such a such a classic of this genre so evocative like i said before proustian i love charlie kale i loved her from the second she showed up i was just like drinking a giant Heineken tall boy in the scene with Adrienne Brody, who is clearly this character is restraining himself from murdering her every second of the scene. And Adrienne Brody is pretty, like he's a small guy. I think that Charlie is aspirational, but she doesn't have a bionic dick that the Pentagon made for her, probably. We don't know that he has that either, but the likelihood is probably better so it's again hawk and cheese but i am voting charlie kale. Dave: [49:53] I am going to put my vote to steve austin here and it is close because of all the reasons i'm saying why i love that charlie kale's here and why she deserves to be in a superhero bracket i think is very clever and works for me but steve austin's whole shtick is like kind of what superheroes are known for strength and, you know, abilities beyond the normal human. He is... Sarah: [50:18] Computery noises. Dave: [50:20] Computery noises. Terrible 70s technology supporting him at every level. I love Steve Austin. Now, the show, very slow, and everything about the show that Sarah said is very true. But if I take the character as he was meant to be at the time, which is, you know, he is a robot astronaut that does good. It feels quite real to me. And I will say on the Steve Austin tip, the other thing about Steve Austin is the Steve Austin analog in The Venture Brothers, who goes out and quits being the $6 million man so he can marry his wife Bigfoot in the forest and be left alone by society is a nice little offshoot of The Six Million Dollar Man. It's a good legacy to have. Tara: [51:00] Yeah. Dave: [51:00] But for me, Steve Austin is more superhero-y. And I will admit a lot of my choice comes down to nostalgia and how much I love The Six Million Dollar Man as a child. Sarah: [51:10] Sure. Dave: [51:11] And it having dividends now when you watch it and you see how stupid of a child you were to actually like something like this. There's a Bloom County... Sarah: [51:21] It's like some guy in a cigar and a winch, and you're like, how did I not notice that when I was five? Oh, yeah, I was five. Dave: [51:27] There's a Bloom County strip where, you know, the Steve Dallas character, he is going on and on about how much he likes Knight Rider and what a great show is. And then the last frame after a couple pregnant pause frames is Milo saying, you know, that's a kid's show, right? And I feel that way about this, you know, like I'm watching it now and I'm like, yeah, okay, obviously I was a kid and that's who it's made for, but boy, is this dumb. But now it's come full circle where it's so dumb and nostalgic that I'd love everything about it. Like, we're definitely going to be watching that Shatner thing. We've already watched the Bigfoot alien episode. There are many, many like that interspersed with all the usual 80 suspects like, oh no, oh, the bad people want to exile the ranchers on nondescript, possibly Mexico land. Are we watching The A-Team or The Six Million Dollar Man? Doesn't matter. It's in all the shows. So there is something very enjoyable about the timeline of enjoying Steve Austin through the years. And the fact that I enjoyed it in the 70s for one reason, and I enjoy it in the 2020s for different reasons, I think, you know, it's another check for Steve Austin here for me. but that means it comes down to Utah. Tara: [52:40] Yeah. Sarah: [52:41] Got it. Tara: [52:41] It is not lost on me that Charlie is the only lady in our bracket here. I do think this is a topic we could revisit in the future and potentially have an elite eight of all the winners and make the winners face off against each other because my long list that I made up for this is real long. Like I had, I think, over a dozen alts. Dave: [53:01] And it's worth saying, this is not exhaustive. Obviously, we only brought eight to the table. This is not even supposed to be the most important. And these are just personal picks that we brought into the mix. Tara: [53:10] Yes. Sarah: [53:11] Before Tara votes, I need Dave's opinion on something. If there is a bionic cock, what discrete sound does it make when erecting? Dave: [53:21] I can actually have that sound effect here for you. Sarah: [53:25] Thank God. Dave: [53:27] One moment, please. I have to find it. Tara: [53:29] I think I know. Sarah: [53:30] Oh, no. Boing. Tara: [53:31] Yeah, I was right. Sarah: [53:33] Wait, wait, wait, wait. I was expecting the bubble one from 90210. Dave: [53:38] Oh, hang on one sec. Sarah: [53:46] I think I have to change my phone. Dave: [53:48] No, no. Sarah: [53:49] I hate this episode. Tara: [53:51] So anyway, the only lady in our matchup, Charlie, also as of the season two finale, we know she is canonically also menopausal, which that representation is important. And I would love to be able to advance a menopausal lady superhero. But Steve Austin and me, I can't deny, even taking my I'm babiness into account, I know his place in pop culture history. I know what he is a shorthand for. Dave: [54:22] Hands up. Who had the $6 million man lunch pail as a kid? Just me. Tara: [54:25] Not me, obviously. Dave: [54:26] No, you're too young. Sarah: [54:27] I had dukes. Dave: [54:28] You didn't have any food to put in it. Tara: [54:29] I didn't. I had a Muppet Show lunchbox that was empty. Dave: [54:34] Playing cars with peanut butter and dice on it. Sarah: [54:36] A thermos filled with tears. Tara: [54:39] My mom's going to listen to this. Mom, you did your best. Sarah: [54:42] I liked Blop. Tara: [54:43] You know that. Anyway, I digress. Steve Austin is so the, like, er-TV superhero of his era, of all eras, really. I mean, he still is a resonant symbol of... of his time. Dave: [54:58] I think we need to like qualify that a little bit. Of course, we're talking about non-comic book superheroes. I would say like if that was included. Tara: [55:05] Batman 66 would probably be at the top of that. That's what I mean. He's like a superhero created for television. Dave: [55:10] Right, right, right. Tara: [55:10] He didn't have any existence as far as I know outside of the show. And he is so of his time in a way that is like touching in its crappiness when you watch it today. It's like, this is the best they could do. And they were blowing people's minds. It's not just children, but certainly adults were watching it, too, and thinking, holy shit, what have they wrought, you know? Sarah: [55:33] Just a full generation of kids who, like, taught themselves to sort of do that slow-mo run. And, like, there was one in every friend group, including at a girl's school, that could do the bionic sound. I mean. Dave: [55:45] Yeah, either you're a t-t person or a na-na person. Tara: [55:49] Right. Dave: [55:49] You never quite got it right. Nobody can actually get it exactly right. Sarah: [55:52] No, it's true. Dave: [55:53] But you either had to choose a t-t-t-t or na-na-na-na-na-na-na. I was personally, no, no, no, no, no, no. Tara: [55:58] With all of that said, I mean, Charlie, you fought the good fight and we'll continue to fight the good fight. Can't wait for season three. It's probably going to be a while because everybody is very busy. But Steve Austin, I think, has to take this matchup just for cultural impact alone. Dave: [56:14] Sure. And speaking to that, I think one metric we haven't really talked about is if you're a superhero, you have superhero toys. Tara: [56:22] Yeah. Dave: [56:23] And $6 Million Dollar Man had all the toys. Tara: [56:25] Mm-hmm. Dave: [56:26] Including the giant G.I. Joe-sized doll with the hole in the back of his head so you can see through his actual bionic eye, which had like a red filter or something like that. Sarah: [56:34] It's not the only hole that G.I. Dave: [56:35] Joe had. Sarah: [56:36] It's just the bionic cock somehow. Dave: [56:43] All right, guys, that is it for this episode of Extra Hot Great. We picked eight non-comic book TV superheroes. And at the end of the bracket, it was Steve Austin, the six million dollar man standing tall. Remember, we're listening. Sarah: [57:05] The only thing that was standing tall. Dave: [57:08] He made me laugh and I fucked up. I am David T. Cole and on behalf of Tara Arianna Master Cylinder and Sarah D. Bunting Cacao Thanks for listening We'll see you next time right here on Extra Hot Grade We'll be.