Gazing Too Long Into Season 7 Of Black Mirror

Dave: [0:12] This is the Extra Hot Great Podcast, episode 558 for the week of April 14th, 2025. I am Visible Ball Sack David T. Cole, and I'm here with 5GB Sarah D. Bundig. Psst. Sarah: [0:32] Dot com. Dave: [0:33] Rivermine Luxe Influencer Tara Arellano. Tara: [0:36] Very exciting new evolution to our service. Dave: [0:38] And the original Brandy Friday, Brandy Brown. Guest: [0:41] I knew my lawyer should have read the contract. Tara: [0:45] Welcome to Extra Hot Great for another week. joining us. She is a comic. You've heard her with us many times before. It's Brandi Brown. Welcome back, Brandi. Sarah: [0:56] Brandi. Guest: [0:57] Hello, hello. Tara: [0:58] Brandi, welcome back. We are, of course, talking about season seven of Black Mirror, the show that had the world asking, what if phones but too much, is back. It's six episodes, involves stories about a service that backs up cognitive function to the cloud, a former high school victim who's come back with a talent for gaslighting, or has she? A process that lets present-day actors literally enter the world of classic cinema. A guy who takes the care and feeding of his Sim creatures too seriously. Another guy forced to confront his memories of a long-lost love. And the long-awaited sequel to USS Callister, Season 4's take on Star Trek. New guest stars include Awkwafina, Doc Brown, Peter Capaldi, Awesome Chowdhury, Emma Corrin, Paul Jumadi, Rashida Jones, Chris O'Dowd, Issa Rae, Tracy Ellis Ross, Harriet Walter, and Treacle from 1KB. also known as A Thousand Blows. All six episodes dropped on Netflix April 10th. We'll probably at least touch on all of them. Let's do the Chen check-in. Brandi, should our listeners watch Black Mirror Season 7? Guest: [2:01] You've got to be in the right headspace. You've got to be having a good day. And if you don't live in America, you might have a better day, but you really got to just listen to this and pick up. Probably Callister is probably the one that you'll probably be the most okay with, but the rest of them, we'll touch on why. Tara: [2:15] Sarah? Sarah: [2:16] Yeah, I would say if you've been watching, then yes, but Brandy is right. Get an emotional support something, because some of it is a roostoof. Tara: [2:25] Dave? Dave: [2:26] Well, with all of these, you know, you want to promote some over others, and that's certainly the case here. But I would say overall, the season was more even than a couple of the more recent seasons. Tara: [2:37] I agree. Dave: [2:37] So for that reason alone, I will say yes. Tara: [2:39] Yes. Cosign what Dave said. Let's have some general questions first before we drill down on each episode. You already sort of touched on this, Brandy, saying you weren't sure this was a show the world needed to watch right now. I think I probably know what you mean, but speak on that. Guest: [2:54] If you want to beat the ass of some tech executives, you're going to want to do it even more. And I don't really think we need more energy to do that. I'm already at like the peak level to do that. And I think that also just right now people are looking for happier things. And so, you know, that is just generally that emotional kind of situation. But I mean, it's good. Tara: [3:19] To me, this was removed enough from the real world that I didn't find watching it as stressful as other things. Sarah: [3:26] I mean, I didn't find it necessarily stressful. I didn't think it was an out of line level of the vibes are bad. Tara: [3:35] Dystopia, yeah. Sarah: [3:35] I think Black Mirror's sort of gift is that it speaks not just to technology and the dystopian possible effects, but also how that reflects non-technological crossroads that you find yourselves at in your life or in your relationships, and the premiere episode in particular. I mean, this is what I like about the show, that is thoughtful and beautifully done and well-acted with appealing actors, and all of that is great. It's good quality, but that first episode's sort of like reflection of dementia, basically, was just like, I mean, I'm happy I spent time with it, but that was about all like take 50 minutes was enough, 55 minutes. But the series has always been like that, that sometimes it really is sort of reflecting a deeper emotional reality that we're already at as a society or as middle-aged people or whatever, not to speak for all the viewers. But I think it is usually on the right side of too scabrously depressing, but not always. So you know like to lead with that episode was a lot i. Guest: [4:47] Thought yeah that was my take too and i wonder in general i always wonder about this in the case of black mirror and again we talked about this uh off mic but uh on a first on a second date with someone who i ended up dating for a long time uh we decided to watch this new show black mirror that no one ever heard of and we started on episode one season one like a normal person would and it was like big fucking episode you're just like what, Which wasn't even really a reflection of everything else on the show. And so I wonder in general, even throughout these seasons, what the order is. Like, Callister makes sense on both seasons because it's the longest. But, like, the rest of them are like, why did we make this choice in the context of this? Like, I could see plus and minus for, like, doing that. But we'll drill down more into the episode. But I think that also it was just, I get that the whole thing, it's called Black Mirror and it's dystopian. but I would have liked some more optimistic stuff up front than being like, oh, this is cool, but here's the dark side, which I like the Issa Rae episode because I thought it kind of was both like... But, yeah, we can get more into that. Tara: [5:51] Yeah. Well, let's go through them, you know, in the order that they dropped. And actually, when I got the screeners, the publicist was very insistent. Like, this is the order we want you to watch them in. Like, okay. So episode one is Common People, in which Amanda, Rashida Jones, has an inoperable brain tumor. While she's in a coma, her husband, Mike, played by Chris O'Dowd, agrees to experimental surgery. That part is free, but getting the company that performs it to keep streaming her consciousness to the missing parts of her brain costs $300 a month to start. And to me, this was the most current feeling story, the one where the allegory was the most direct. I mean, I take your point about dementia. To me, this was more like a health insurance story. Dave: [6:31] But let's put this in context to explain it quickly. This is what if subscriptions, but too much using the Black Mirror social media rubric. Guest: [6:40] It was also what if your partner, like this is why you need like a will. And like, uh, you, you definitely need a, um, what do you call it? A health care directive, like a healthcare directive, because it was like shit where I was like, bro, you, I was actually like really mad at him. Like I understood the situation. I'm like, man, you wouldn't ask a follow-up question. Like, like this has happened before. And there are people who've had like, uh, like amputees or they've had attachments and this has happened before where they'd stopped being supported in real life. And so you're just like, Hey, wouldn't that be a question? Like what happens if I can't pay for this $300 a month? Because you never know what happens in life, you know. And so that was like, it was healthcare, but also like technology support in general. Like what happens when stuff becomes obsolete. Sarah: [7:24] And the gig economy, like as only fans, but like for pulling teeth. Tara: [7:29] Yeah. Sarah: [7:29] Literally. It was, yeah, there were a lot of, a lot of threads. Guest: [7:33] And also just what if a questionable relationship. Tara: [7:36] Yeah. Guest: [7:37] Break up with your man. Dave: [7:39] This episode for me, even though it was the most sort of like current feeling because subscriptions and all the plus stuff and just the one that had the most stuff is the middle tier. And then there's doing that whole rug pull is very current feeling. The ones that worked for me generally in this season were the ones where it didn't feel like this could be condensed into a TikTok video that was about three minutes long. And the problem with this one is that it was very predictable. You knew where all the beats were going as soon as the premise was introduced. And nothing really surprised me about this episode, except by just like some of the cute mechanics they introduced for the general premise, which is your body is now a subscription. Yeah. And there are a couple of those in this season where I was like, oh, okay, like this is kind of a clever premise but it's too long to really like it's too long for what you're doing and then sometimes on top of that you like just end the episode like very abruptly before you get into like the aftermath or the why of it or something like that and it's just more like premise as entertainment without really digging too much into it and this was my problem with the first episode it was entertaining but i kind of felt like oh boy this really felt like it should have been like something very quick and very pithy. Guest: [8:58] Yeah as soon as as soon as she presented the idea i was like don't do it like i was like don't go in there like and so like and then like i saw it like just i saw the setup when they're like they travel outside the thing and then she talked about the network i'm like well this is obviously where shit's gonna go down and so it was definitely like i wonder if black mirror like you know how on you know like law and order for example they have a bunch of ideas and they just like make one episode where it's like 50 different cases that are like cases just have like one episode of black mirror where it's just like like the sketch show black mirror which is like all these premises that don't merit 30 minutes that would be cool because i'm sure there are some like ones that just by default are like 10 minutes and you know yeah. Tara: [9:38] And season four with the black museum was sort of like that where it's like three different stories in one episode yeah. Dave: [9:43] I i thought it was clever i just thought it was too long. Tara: [9:45] Yeah i agree it repeat went back to the same beats too often, Tara: [9:49] Episode two is called Bet Noir. Before Maria was a food scientist, she was a high school student who bullied and tortured a classmate named Verity, and she is shocked to see Verity show up for a focus group to test the new miso jam chocolate bar Maria has developed. Soon Verity gets hired for a lab assistant job Maria didn't know existed and starts undermining Maria at work through mysterious means. This one is like more, I think, absurdist. It's lighter. Dave: [10:15] So this one would be what if alternative realities or what if the singularity, I think, is also kind of part of this, but too much, I think. Tara: [10:23] Yes. Dave: [10:24] Inside of a food scientist setting. Tara: [10:26] Yes. Yes, exactly. Guest: [10:28] Dude, this one, right, I watched this one right after the first one. So I was already pissed at multiple reasons for the first one. And then this one was just like a black woman being gaslit at work. And I was like, oh, fuck this show, too. So for me, this wasn't even like, I've been like, I've been there enough where I'm like, you know what? Maybe. Maybe she's just gas. I mean, a white woman gaslighting a black woman. Like, I was just like, yeah, this is, I live Black Mirror. So, like, you know, when it was, like, a technical reason, I'm just like, okay. Like, that would be a better explanation than all the other times it's happened to me in real life. I like this one, too, because I did not know where it was going. I was like, what is her plan? Like, what did you do to this woman in real life? That she's this mad at you? Or, like, who is she? Sarah: [11:07] Yeah, I didn't love this one because it was just taking twice as long as it needed to to get where it was. probably going and then the sort of button on it i was like uh-huh yeah sometimes i feel like they have these ideas and they feel obligated to play them out at a 45 to 55 minute length or at all and this was definitely a i felt a 12 to 20 minute or but i guess that's not what what if tiktok. Guest: [11:36] But too much that's. Sarah: [11:37] Yeah that's. Guest: [11:38] The length of this i think i complained uh last time i was It's just like every show is too much. Tara: [11:44] Yeah. Dave: [11:44] Yeah because like most of the episode is just cycling through the different things that change in her life and she has no explanation for them and then her being insistent that x is x but it then turns out x is actually y in the tunnel of reality that's being constantly recreated as the episode goes along by the villain and then at the very end it's just like bam bam boom bam bam over like it was just like okay that was just a cycle of six things six examples of what's going on followed by a gunshot followed by the money shot of the heroine being now empress of the universe in her own elastic alternate universe or whatever was going on there and that was like it and that's what i mean like once you see the rhythm of the episode you're like okay therefore we can cut this much time out of it and it's okay when they follow the the the rule of looping escalation, but this episode didn't really do that. Like, it wasn't enough going from memos to I can change the color of your shirt, you know, that kind of stuff. Like, it needed to be, it needed to bring the energy of I am now Empress of the Universe. That needed to be, like, the three-quarter mark and then go from there. Like, there wasn't an escalation in this episode. So that's why I thought, like, again, the premise, fun, fun in a general sense, clever rather, maybe, and the execution, it's a little slob, a little slob. Guest: [13:10] I would have, I would have restructured this show from Verity's perspective, actually. I think this was also, like, and I didn't realize this until the very end, but, like, do y'all know what maladaptive daydreaming is? Tara: [13:20] Mm-hmm. Guest: [13:21] Well, it's like a, it's kind of like a new, and it's not like the DSM thing, but it's something I kind of struggle with, but it's like, when you daydream to the point that it, like, disrupts your life, like, you'll have, like, whole stories, and it's, like, basically, like, tied to like dissociation, right? So... What this woman was doing is it's basically, it's also kind of like tied to like rumination where people just like loop through thoughts. I'll like replay things in their head over, well, what if I tweak this part of the story? What if I do this? And so that's what like Verity, the person who could like change time was doing. And I would have rather have seen this episode from her perspective because it's like, okay, this person like ignored you. Like she wasn't the main bully in school. So like you're, why her? Like you, there are a lot of people who are mean to you in life. i would like to have seen all the reasoning of why she was like what if i tweak this and try this and this wasn't fun this is i'm trying to have fun at the end she reveals or like. Sarah: [14:13] As her trauma response yeah yeah that's a good. Guest: [14:15] Point she's like i've tried she's like i've tried you know i've done everything i i'm okay let's see like why you're what you're trying to fix in your life throughout these things we don't really we find out her motivation at the end and we could have had like basically the same ending revealed like oh you've been an asshole to other people in the process of you trying to fix your life you've been kind of doing this butterfly effect and you weren't even paying attention to who else it hurt and that's the more interesting story not like the person who's hurt because the motivation there is just someone losing their mind and i guess like i will give black mirror this that they're very good at like building up anxiety because you're like where the fuck is this going um but again i would have written it from verity's perspective and it would have been a fascinating like okay you were an emperor but like what did it take for you to be like hey it's cool that i got to be the empress of the world but like what sometimes you just want to redo you're like man i wish i hadn't said that to someone at work today because it was really awkward you know just like that kind of stuff like that's relatable replaying your life and like how you can't get it right you still hurt yeah. Dave: [15:19] Yeah has black mirror done a iterative parallel universe groundhog day yeah uh yeah like groundhog day yeah i. Sarah: [15:26] Don't think like uh what was it? Edge of Tomorrow? Tara: [15:28] Yeah. Sarah: [15:29] Maybe Game Test sort of touched on that. I don't, I'd have to go back and watch it again. Dave: [15:33] That would have been more interesting for sure. Tara: [15:36] Let's move on. Episode three is called Hotel Reverie. Dave: [15:39] What if deep fakes, but too much? Tara: [15:41] Yes. Rather than fade into oblivion, the head of Keyworth Studios decides to make its catalog of old movies newly relevant by inserting a contemporary star in place of just one character. When Brandy, played by Issa Rae, enters the world of the movie playing a role that was originally the male romantic lead, she alters reality for the female lead character, Clara, played by Emma Corrin. Randy's only supposed to spend the movie's runtime doing the project, but something goes awry and she ends up staying in Hotel Reverie much longer, getting to know Clara and eventually Dorothy, the actress who played her, a lot more intimately. So yeah, what if deepfakes but too much? The first pro-AI episode of Black Mirror I think we've seen? Don't know about that. Guest: [16:24] This season's San Junipero. Tara: [16:25] For sure. Sarah: [16:26] Mm-hmm. Tara: [16:27] Yes. They keep having nods to it through the season. In the first episode, they go to the Juniper Lodge. In the last episode, a character ends up at St. Juniper's Hospital. And then in this one, she lives on Junipero Road. So it's, yeah, very explicitly trying to remind you of everybody's favorite episode, I think. Sarah: [16:44] Yeah. I wanted to like this one more than I did. It didn't quite feel felt. Usually, at least, even if it's sort of structured, not quite the way you do it or it's taking too long or whatever, you believe it. And you believe that everybody who made it believes it. Like it feels they feel dug in on it. And also like nobody heard of or had watched Purple Rose of Cairo, which like I understand that this and all the other ones are canceled and with good reason. And opinions vary on Purple Rose of Cairo. But this is not a new idea, like the literal breaking of the silver screen fourth wall. Also, this is a new take on it, and someone getting stuck in the alternate dimension, whatever. That's half of sci-fi. Issa Rae didn't seem all that comfortable to me in it. Guest: [17:40] This is really a dystopian nightmare. It's not really about the technology, but SAG really fucked up here, I think. SAG, how did this happen? Where is the unions there? Because there's a lot of that to where you're like, you didn't read the contract. Your agent didn't read the contract. I know it was like, you're not going to audition for it. But there's a lot of stuff where you're like, hold up. but yeah Issa Rae's not the greatest actress like I adore her she's a great writer she's a great producer she's awesome she is someone you would cast in I would put her in the Awkwafina role she would be good there yeah, but like I get that you wanted her as a lead she's not a lead she's not a lead she. Tara: [18:15] Really gets blown away by Emma Corrin who I think they've never been. Guest: [18:18] Better than they are here so if she was in like awkward black girl like you know that was because she produced that and she was good in that character that she wrote for herself but like you can't have her as a lead for this. Also, her character seemed very professional and very with it. And that character would not have been in that situation. They would have had a lot of questions. Even though they wanted this badly, they would have been like, let me negotiate. Why do you want to give this to me so easily? Because basically, they were proposing a gender swap that was not in the original script. And they were like, sure, cool, let's do it. That would have been like, why is this not getting pushed back? Tara: [18:55] Right. Dave: [18:55] Well, besides the contractual part of it and just like, you know, the why would Hollywood let this happen of it all? I was struck, like, when you take the core premise of the technology behind it, that was called Redream. Yeah. The Redream company, they put you into a movie and the movie has its own like reality rules and you are playing within that set of rules and you are putting yourself in in lieu of a lead character or whoever and you play out the movie and you have to sort of hit the same emotional and plot points in order to keep it on track. It's sort of like a choose your own adventure, but you're on rails kind of thing. Dave: [19:35] Anybody who's ever done, and I don't count myself into this, but having played Dungeons and Dragons a couple of times, the computer basically is the dungeon master. And Issa Rae is like the player that comes in and just wants to do improv instead of actually role playing Dungeons and Dragons, which was me. Like, I would have put all the nails I have into a sack and make that a weapon and put it on a rope and fling it around. And it's like, that's not the way it works. But like, you can't say that. It's yes and, right? They're like, no, it's actually not the way Dungeons and Dragons works. I was like, well, this is a lot less fun than I thought it was going to be. They're like, well, that's the way it's got to be. I feel like all the ideas that are going on inside this universe, if anybody ever knew anybody who played Dungeons and Dragons would know that this would not work. It's just like there's way too many variables to contain. As soon as she got to the piano, he's like, oh, OK, this is going to be the oops catalyst for everything. She's like, oh, play me a tune. And these are goes up the piano. She starts like clonking on it because she doesn't know how to play the piano. and there's no Matrix module to plug into her brain in this universe to make her play the piano correctly. So I thought that was kind of funny. I thought the premise of this one was good. And I thought the tech behind it, like the way they made everything look and the way they froze things was miles above what I've seen this sort of thing, generally speaking. Usually the freeze feels very fakey and very computer-y and they could hide a lot of it behind black and white and grain, which is maybe why they chose an old silver screen kind of thing. Dave: [21:00] But I was impressed by the technical part of it. But yeah, I felt like there was a disparity between the two leads that was hard to get over. And also I felt the Issa Rae character flip-flopped a lot during her journey inside of the universe that I was like, oh, where are we supposed to be emotionally with her on this? I thought. Why did they need a studio? Why didn't they just do this in the lab? They didn't need space to walk around. It wasn't like they were walking around in this world. Issa Rae's character is just on a table with one of the little nubbins on her forehead. Tara: [21:30] Yeah. Guest: [21:30] Unless that studio had the processing power behind it. Tara: [21:35] It wouldn't. Guest: [21:35] Yeah. Dave: [21:36] It would be more likely that you would be in a tech park doing this. Sarah: [21:40] Yeah. Server farm. Yeah. Tara: [21:42] All right, let's move on to episode four, which is called Play Thing. When Cameron, Peter Capaldi, is arrested for attempted shoplifting, a mandatory DNA swab links him to a cold murder case. In the interrogation room, he tells the story of his old life as a video game journalist who stole a world-building game called Thronglings in the early 90s and how that altered the course of his life. Dave, how would you summarize this? It's what but too much. Dave: [22:06] Yeah, it's what if game AI, but too much, but also like, what if guy in mom's basement, but too much as well? Tara: [22:13] Yeah. Dave: [22:13] Yeah. Tara: [22:14] It's basically a continuation of Bandersnatch. Will Poulter comes back to play the Mad Genius game programmer. Colin Ritten is the character's name. Dave, this was your favorite episode of this movie. Dave: [22:23] It was, yeah. Which you were like very surprised on. Tara: [22:25] I was because it was my least favorite. Guest: [22:27] Yeah, I would say what if Tamagotchi is what too much? Tara: [22:30] Uh-huh. Yeah. What if The Sims? Right. Guest: [22:33] Yeah. Right. Dave: [22:34] So the idea is, yes, it's like a Pokemon Tamagotchi sort of video game. Actually, like to put it, one of the reasons why I really like this, because it spoke to me and where I was at the time where this backstory of this takes place. Tara: [22:46] Yeah, 1994. Dave: [22:47] Right. 1994. And the game, yeah, I think in modern terms, you might say Pokemon or Tamagotchi. If you were playing games at the time, this is definitely based on Populous, which is a, Basically, you are God, you terraform everything, you've set up the universe for your things to thrive. You actually don't control the humans on your world, you just control the world. And then the humans have to figure out how to use the resources that you provide and all that. and everything around that. So in the story, the Peter Capaldi character is arrested and there's a reason why he wants to be arrested. And then they sort of flash back to his younger self at work at a PC magazine. And they're doing all these like little touches, like, you know, like, oh, here's the latest issue if you want to read it. We're putting CDs on the cover now. Tara: [23:34] Like, I was like. Dave: [23:35] Okay, I know exactly when this is. You didn't have to tell me it was 1994. Tara: [23:39] But absolutely. Dave: [23:40] Peter Capaldi character gets a copy of this AI game where it's sort of like it can write itself new code. It's like living code, basically. And he gets a copy. He takes it home and he starts to realize that these thronglings are talking to him. So he has to buy more hardware in order to beef up his system so they can do more. And he goes on a shopping spree and like everything they do, it wasn't like fake computer stuff. They like he buys a Sound Blaster and it's the fucking Sound Blaster box from that era. He buys a Kinex webcam. It's exactly the Pyramid Kinex webcam that you would have at the time. So there's a lot of just like nostalgia for me there. But I really like the idea of the crazy computer conspiracy basement dweller type of character. Who's right? Dave: [24:29] He's never wrong. He knew what was happening. He recognized that these little yellow dudes on the computer were actually life forms. And he nurtured them in a very sort of crazy, I've never washed my hair in 30 years kind of way. And at the end of it, he does what they wanted him to do, which is like figure out a way to get them into the real world. And there was enough for me personally. I'm not saying I would expect this reaction for everybody else. But the PC of it all, as we go along, really stopped me from having that complaint where I felt like it was two pounds of show in a five pound bag. Like that felt tight to me because there was a lot that was speaking to my experience trying to create life where life was not there. And I just really like Peter Capaldi in this role, too. He was just kind of weird and out there, but also just a touch sinisterly connected to his brain still. There was something about that performance I also enjoyed. But Tara, you didn't enjoy it. So on the flip side, why bad? Tara: [25:30] Other than the flashbacks, I thought the format of guys sitting in a chair telling a story, parts of it were not that interesting. I was just bored. And there are a lot of things I'm willing to feel guilty about. Letting my characters in The Sims die horrible deaths is not one of them. That's how I felt. Dave: [25:45] Yeah. Tara: [25:46] Brandy. Guest: [25:47] My 94 game was, there was a teacher in our school, we would just play Lemmings all the time. So I saw that and I was like, oh, I want to play Lemmings. Imagining a guy coming over and fucking up your computer game, I'd be so mad too. But the rest of the time, I'm like, all right, all right, dude. Dave: [26:01] When his friend comes over, so the Peter Capaldi character is his younger self, has a friend, and the friend is, you know, friend. He's just a moochie. Guest: [26:09] Acquaintance. Dave: [26:10] Yeah, and he comes over and the game is running while he's at work. So this stoner friend does what everybody does when you are two hours into The Sims or anything like that, is you trap all the characters in the house or in the field and you start throwing firebombs and destruction and Godzillas or whatever at them. And that's what he does. And then Peter Capaldi is so freaked out because he thinks slash knows that these things are actually life forms that he beats the shit out of this guy and then kills him. Tara: [26:38] Yeah. Guest: [26:39] My favorite slight digression simpson ever happened was in minneapolis in like 2017 there was a mayor race and we have ranked it was like the first year we had ranked choice voting which whatever um somebody made a sims house with every candidate and it was and they would just like update us on like how the candidates were treating each other and i had a bunch of comedy shows at the library and the mayor the former mayor betsy hodges came and she knew about this she was she's very online and so i got to introduce her to the person who made the sims it was so funny i get why david like it was yes for sure as like a standalone like if you weren't there you don't. Dave: [27:18] I understand why you wouldn't like it. I'm not insisting that you like it, guys. Don't worry about it. Guest: [27:22] What if Little Shop of Horrors, but computer? Like, you know, it's like. Sarah: [27:26] What if Gremlins, but Peter Capaldi, which like, okay, you give me that log line and I'm down for a while. But Tara's like, he's sitting in a chair telling a story. Like, if you're going to give that job to anyone, I'm glad it was him. I didn't hate it, but I did also get up to go pee and not pause. So that's where I was. Guest: [27:45] Peter Capaldi definitely gives also the know-it-all on a Law & Order episode who has a secret, and they're like, only Bobby Gorin can trust him. He's right at that role, but that's in the vein of that kind of person. Tara: [27:59] All right, episode five, eulogy. Philip, played by Paul Giamatti, is invited to participate in an immersive memorial service for Carol. His memories of her are very complicated, as we see, when a digital assistant helps him walk through the few photos he has of her and tell the stories behind them. This was my favorite episode. I love how they slow play the story at first, and then by the time they get to his last meeting with Carol, it's so clear how his younger self fucked it up. I mean, and the guy they cast to play young Paul Giamatti, amazing casting. He really, really, really looked like him, even though we don't see him, like, really talk or move or whatever. But I love the way they rendered the 3D version of the photos. Dave: [28:40] Yeah, that was really great. Tara: [28:41] When he can't summon a memory of Carol's face. So when he comes around the front of it in this like... Dave: [28:46] You need to explain the premise, John. Tara: [28:47] Okay, so what this eulogy product can do is if you give it physical media, it can recreate it in a way that you can walk into it, basically, as a full environment. Dave: [28:58] But using your memories. Tara: [28:59] Right. Dave: [29:00] Right, to fill out data that's not in the physical bits. Tara: [29:03] Right, and all he has is three photos of her, and there are more that he eventually finds, but he's blacked out her face. Dave: [29:10] And the photos he has of her, her back is turned and stuff like that. Tara: [29:13] Her back is turned, yeah. Yeah, so that first surprise reveal is when he comes around to see the front of Carol. It's just like polygons because it can't construct her face because he can't remember her. So yeah, I thought it was really lovely. The golden photography made it look so wistful. And it has an ending where he goes to the memorial service and everyone is just sort of sitting there all with their little nubbins on, just being immersed in it, except for him and her daughter. And that's supposed to be the dystopic part. And it is like the idea that you would gather these people in the same physical place and then they wouldn't actually connect with each other at all. Like that part of it was dark, but the rest of it I thought was really sweet and lovely. Dave: [29:52] Well, the reason I thought this one worked better than the other ones is that the and it's maybe antithetical to the black mirror, but it works because it's a story about this guy who kind of fuck things up and he's realizing it. It's not really a story about the technology. Like the technology is basically a 3D scan plus what you can kind of fill in from your brain about that 3D scan. That's sort of the technical premise of it. And they did that. Like I thought all the visual rendering of that was really great and very interesting. And the way they incorporated things that are very hard to like separate in a photo. I mean, obviously they created the photo from these separated bits. But like the long exposure bits where people are just wispy, sort of like Jacob's Ladder looking faces. and, you know, that is actually done correctly inside of the universe. I thought that was all great. But at the core of it, the story is this guy that thought things were very different from his reality and he only realizes it now that, you know, this love of his life is gone. Tara: [30:47] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [30:48] This is sort of what I was saying before about the first episode of the season, that I think the most effective episodes are sort of trying to tell you without being too goofus and gallant about it, that technology is made and used by people. So the human stories that they either facilitate or warp and ruin, that sort of relationship is balanced properly in terms of the human relationships that it's trying to illustrate. Those are my favorite episodes. And this was not actually my favorite of the season, but it was probably second. And there was also like, but at this point in our lives, we all know people who have passed, but their digital presences like dead relatives, Facebook pages that no one could be bothered to go through this extremely Byzantine process of shutting it down. So sometimes it's like, here's a memory of you with my mom's Facebook page. And it's like, okay, I don't find that stuff triggering or bad. It's just a feature of life. So that's sort of like zombie social media account that I found myself thinking about that. And that's my sort of favorite kind of Black Mirror episode is that it's like, oh, this actually does map onto something that is already true. Yeah. Dave: [32:12] Just because you were mentioning your reaction to the first one in the context of telling an actual human story and everything like that. I wonder if Common People, the very first episode, but the subscription stuff, if that was filmed later, would the tail end of that story be the Chris, what's his name, O'Dowell character becomes Luigi? Guest: [32:30] Yeah, yeah. Dave: [32:32] Goes to the Lux thing and like plugs one in his head. And that is the catalyst for all the shit. And this like that would have been a little bit better because that would have it would have been like subscription, subscription, subscription. What exactly is health care here? Tara: [32:45] Right. Dave: [32:46] Patum. And then like everything's canceled immediately because this is a crime scene now. And then he has to do what he did to his wife at the end. Tara: [32:54] Yeah. Guest: [32:54] And I think, you know, jumping back to the first one on that, too. the other questions I had for like I don't know if we mentioned this but like Tracee Ellis Ross her character also had this implant like what happens when you lose your job or something like that I think that like I was wanting more reflection from her like she was just very like she had nothing to lose in that it seemed like but she did I. Dave: [33:15] Think that she was one of the first and that her way of paying for it was basically to MLM it to. Tara: [33:23] Be this CSR yeah. Dave: [33:25] Yeah. Tara: [33:25] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sarah: [33:27] It's not Amway. It's a different kind of product. Guest: [33:29] That would still give me pause because you're just like, okay, so what if this ends? Like, what if people, you know, what if the grid goes down? You know, that kind of stuff. So, like, I do like the episodes where it's like, yeah, this is something that really makes you think about your behaviors. Like, I'm like, I would just not sign the contract on that brain implant for my mom. But, like, things that you do do, you're like, oh, I do have memories like that or I do. Like, I really like those because also it's called Black Mirror, which means you're looking at a screen that is off. So it's like, what about things that like technology is present, Guest: [34:00] but it's not, this is your behavior truly impacting this. Tara: [34:04] Especially this one, because, you know, the only things he has to submit to this process are physical media. And that's like confusing for the guide as well, because she's like, I can process up to 1500 photos. He's like, and I've brought you three. Dave: [34:18] Yeah. I also like the idea that the guide and you see it now when you use like chat GPT or whatever, once in a while, it tries to like insert itself with a little personality. It's always like, I don't hate it, but also why? And I felt like that with the guide, because the guide has a very conversational and low level aggressive tone sometimes that seemed appropriate inside of what the company was trying to get out of him, which is like, we just need to get these memories out of your brain as quickly as possible. So I will try to be a catalyst for it. You know, try this, try that. Don't do that. You know, like, what are you doing? All that kind of stuff. I thought that felt a little true to how AI sort of presents itself today as well. Just to put a button on this, I guess this is what if memories, but too much? Tara: [35:00] Yeah, or not enough. What if memories, but not enough? Dave: [35:03] Do you know who is the person that originally said what if phones, but too much? Tara: [35:06] Yes. It's somebody from the hall. Dave: [35:08] Right? Tara: [35:08] Yes. Daniel M. Lavery. Dave: [35:10] I hope it goes on his tombstone because that is what a legacy. Because everybody uses this as a metric now. Tara: [35:15] It's true. Made it into the show in one of the episodes. Dave: [35:17] We are going so long, but let's talk about the last episode. Tara: [35:20] Okay, last episode. USS Callister colon into infinity. Title treatment Star Trek style. Dave: [35:26] This is what if USS Callister but too much. Tara: [35:28] It really is. Guest: [35:29] Which was already too much. Tara: [35:31] Which was already too much. It's like, yo dog. Guest: [35:32] I heard you had USS Callister. So I put some USS Callister. Dave: [35:36] This is the marquee episode, obviously, and it's almost, I guess it is feature length, really. Tara: [35:41] Yeah, since an hour and a half. Sarah: [35:41] Yeah, it is. The longest one. Dave: [35:44] And I was done with it. I was like, I wasn't mad that I watched it, but I was like, I don't know if I needed more of this. Tara: [35:51] Well, that's the thing. It feels, and I wrote this in my review, which we'll link in the show notes, but this and Plaything both felt like the middle of a story. Like, this feels like it still needs another episode to cap it off. Sarah: [36:03] And because of how it ends, we'll need them to resuscitate Billy Magnuson's character, Carl, because he's the fucking best. You also mentioned this in your review. Like, this is objectively not the best of the episode, but it was my or of the season. Excuse me. But it was my favorite because this is really a lot of acting firepower. They're all having a fucking blast. Dave: [36:26] That's what elevates it for sure. Tara: [36:28] Yes. Sarah: [36:28] And I also loved that last sequence where she goes to the heart of the Infinity and it's still him in his garage. And he's like, wow, I think I haven't seen anyone in I don't know how time works. Tara: [36:40] 500 years? Yeah. Sarah: [36:42] Yeah, there were some things that they hung a light on that I thought was good. But then the fact was you have become accustomed to expecting in a sequel like this, this is going to be his redemption. Like this version of him will not be an incel twat. And, you know, spoiler. Tara: [37:00] Wrong. Sarah: [37:01] It's still him. He's still a fuck nuts who manages to ruin everything. And I think you're absolutely right. This needs a third installment. It should be shorter. This did not need to be 90 minutes. But it was a fucking blast to see them again. It's just like Magnuson swanning around in just a vest. And it's like Jimmy Simpson is so good. It's such an underrated actor. And like all of these people together, Milioti is like a genius. I don't know. Like, it was just a pleasure to watch it, even though as I was watching it, I was like, this is at least 20 minutes too long. This didn't actually need to happen at all. But boy, am I glad that it is to see them again. It was just nice. Guest: [37:43] I don't know why they wouldn't just make this. Like, why wouldn't they just make kind of like a spinoff of this, like, between seasons of Black Mirror? It was just, like, Black Mirror presents Callister. Tara: [37:54] Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Dave: [37:55] What they should do is just, like, this is the halfway mark between this and our next season. And it's going to be the movie feature. That would work. Tara: [38:03] Hotel Reverie was almost an hour and a half. I feel like they get one hour plus episode per season. That's it. You can decide what it is. Or. Sarah: [38:12] Agree. Tara: [38:13] Do this as a, as a, in between seasons, a moose-boosh. Dave: [38:16] I enjoyed the fun of it all, but I really thought they did the real life Chris Amelioti character dirty here. Like it was just like. Tara: [38:25] That's, yes. But that's why I think it needs another episode because it leaves her in the same sort of like too much power situation with the clones that the real Robert had in the first episode. Dave: [38:37] Right, right. But I just felt it was very perfunctory. I just, I just, I don't know. Tara: [38:40] Yeah. Dave: [38:40] It felt like a solution they didn't really want to make to a problem that they had, you know, sort of like they broke themselves into a corner and they needed to get all the crew characters inside of her brain at the end. And I just felt like, you know, her suddenly getting smacked by a car was just like, oh, we just got to we're already at the 80 minute mark. What are we going to do here type of thing? So, I mean, that sort of rubbed me the wrong way. And I think it was because I actually found all the real life stuff in the office happening at the same time that all the Star Trek shit is happening. Like, actually, on par, interesting. Like, I liked the sneaking around and the skullduggery of it all and finding out exactly how that was happening and watching Jimmy Simpson, like, just go mental because it was all underwinding in the real world. And he really sold that part of it. And I enjoyed that half of it. But when they just sort of like, but damn, I was like, I don't really like that bit. Tara: [39:31] Right. You never to me, they never had to come back to this. But since they did, you got to finish it. Guest: [39:36] Yeah the more even think about this should be a standalone between seasons because these topics have been touched on in other episodes you know you could like see aspects of this like well if you just folded this in from like the you know capaldi episode you could get some of that stuff in you've got like people like between worlds and like real life in a game you've got aspects of the isa ray episode like you can just like if it was between episodes it'd be like enough to be like oh this isn't kind of i've seen it done better just like three episodes ago or but like you've we've already kind of done this before within the season so yeah yeah there's. Dave: [40:10] A there's an analog when you play there's a certain type of like video game you play where like the game is to start off six characters and like every once in a while they release a new character and then like by three years later there's 22 characters in the game and when you were playing with six characters each one had the distinctive personality like this one is the heavy guy that has lots of. Guest: [40:28] Bullets This. Dave: [40:29] Is the fast little short guy. But then when you have 20 of them and you're trying to make them each unique, you can't. And then all the characters start to have little tiny attributes of other characters in the past. And it doesn't feel distinctive anymore. And I think that's sort of happening with the Black Mirror universe where, you know, or say, again, another example would be Simpsons Treehouse of Terror, where they're like, this is your Frankenstein episode. This is our Dracula episode. And when you get going on and it's like, this is our Frank and Dracula werewolf episode, like it starts to lose sort of that clarity. The edges get a little soft about exactly what we're talking about. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but then when you do recognize like, OK, this plot point is actually fully addressed in season two, episode three. So why are we actually like redoing it? Tara: [41:17] Yeah. Dave: [41:18] Like that is a problem when you have such a narrow mandate that you start to see, you start to see the matrix, right? You start to see the code as it were. Tara: [41:27] Well, that's the season we did it. Dave: [41:36] All right, it is time to go around the dial talking about TV we've been watching recently. First up, Tara. Tara: [41:41] Hacks is back for season four. The premiere picks up seconds after the last one left off with Ava gloating about having blackmailed Debra into giving her the head writer job on her late night show and Debra being furious about it. And I know they keep playing chicken with the idea that these two have such vicious fights because on some level they're in love. But when Debra confronts Ava in the premiere cold open, she gets so close to Ava's face. I really thought they were going to kiss and it was going to turn out to be a dream, but no, it's real. Debra just really maybe wanted to rip Ava's face off with her teeth. I thought season three was strong overall. The one thing I didn't believe was that in the current media environment, a 70-something-year-old person, never mind a woman, would get a job hosting a network late-night show. And the premiere addresses this by basically saying late night is dying, so they thought they might as well try something radically different, but also that the network and its corporate parent are only giving Debra and her staff three months to be a success. Tara: [42:37] And without spoiling future episodes, this is one of the season's big concerns that media companies have gotten too big and too beholden to Wall Street pressures to really permit experimentation or make room for anything to be niche or find its audience naturally, which is a funny story to be telling inside, you know, Warner Brothers Discovery. But the rhythm of the show is that Ava and Debra fight and make up. So I don't think it's a big spoiler to say they get through their dispute. But the early going, when they're fighting in a newly public way and with so much more at stake, is really funny. The context of the late night show brings in a lot of great new characters, most notably Michaela Watkins as Stacey from Corporate HR. Tara: [43:13] I kind of think it's lazy that the fictional show is just called Late Night when there is a show in real life called that, and has been since well before Hacks started, but that's minor. Tara: [43:24] My major critique is Kayla, formerly the assistant to Ava and Deborah's agent Jimmy, now Jimmy's partner since he's gone out on his own. She keeps edging closer to the center of the action when we really only need such a tiny pinch of her. It's text in the show that she's Jimmy's old boss's daughter, which is why she's skated by being so bad at her job all the time. But now her higher status means she has more power to abuse. And later on, she gets a storyline where she actually has a significant decision to make that could alter the course of the show. And I'm sure Megan Stalter has her fans, but she is not up to this task. I was just kept contrasting her with Kayla Monterosso Mejia, who's also a funny actor playing a Hollywood assistant on the studio right now. Mejia is very good also at playing characters who are annoying, but she has spent the past six months showing us her range in other roles. Stalter is just so one note. And I'm annoyed that she gets so much screen time when the much better character of Marcus, the CEO of Debra's QVC merchandise line, is basically entirely written out of the show this season. But other than my growing hatred of Kayla and her growing role, the show is great and fun and smart and unpredictable. And if we don't get more after what happens in the season four finale, I will be mad. Dave, you watched this too. Dave: [44:34] We watched it too long ago for me to remember much. Tara: [44:37] That's true. We watched it weeks ago. Okay, well, you can cut that. Dave: [44:41] No, people need to know. People need to know I have a Swiss cheese brain. Tara: [44:44] Okay, well, I reviewed it, so you can check out that review if you want to refresh your memory, Dave. Dave: [44:49] Okay, thank you. All right, Brandy, what have you been watching recently? Guest: [44:54] All right, I've been watching this show, Sid and TP, since a WNBA draft was last night. I've just gotten, I wasn't like really a WNBA person until this past year, not because of Caitlin Clark, but because of like just generally getting to like know them and they're just, they're fun. And I just enjoy the WNBA's like personalities and I'm a sports person. But there's a show that's on, Fubo Maximum Effort channel but you can also watch it on YouTube which is where I watched it called Sid and TP and Sid Coulson who's now on the Fever but was on the Aces and her former teammate Teresa Plaisance who was on the Aces I think they were benchwarmers. Sid Coulson, she's on Twitter, she's hilarious and just a total chaotic person. But they decided, you know, these are pretty short, like 20 minute episodes or about like 10 of them, I think. They want to become the face of the league as benchwarmers. And so you just have these different episodes where they set out, they meet with their agent, they meet with Cheryl Swoops about how to become the face of the league. Guest: [45:54] And it's just funny. Like, even if you don't, like they have like other basketball, like WNBA stars in there. They're also, they're both queer women, but there's a running joke that like Teresa plays on, has like a crush on Sid and Sid wants nothing to do with her. And they're both also like, they give the stoner vibe off. The two favorite episodes of mine are, there's one where they want to become like music stars. And so they meet with like Flaugé who does rap. She plays for LSU and they go into the booth and just terrible rapping, just hilarious. But they're like dressed stop. And they're ridiculous. And my favorite episode, which I think I provided a link to in the show notes, they both decide, they're like, you know what? We want to become like a power couple, but not with each other. So they go and they're like, well, let's figure out how to date. They go to this queer bar and they meet up with ER Fightmaster who teaches them pickup lines. And they're just terrible at pickup lines. And you just see like ER Fightmaster yelling, no touching. All right. We're going to, what's important consent? They're like, all right. And they'll just like walk up to people and be like, they're terrible. And meanwhile, like er fight masters just like picking up people constantly in this bar and they're they're looking ridiculous but like i'm not doing it justice it's on youtube uh sid and then the plus sign tp uh just so funny like it's it's even if you don't know anything about basketball it's it's perfect just a good time and they're they have like such great chemistry and they're just thoroughly ridiculous humans is. Dave: [47:21] There a wmba team called fever. Guest: [47:23] Yeah uh it's where caitlin cart plays in indiana indiana fever why. Dave: [47:28] Is it called fever. Guest: [47:28] I don't know they're hot they got the heat on. Sarah: [47:31] The nba the wnba's naming conventions are. Guest: [47:35] Weird yeah all. Dave: [47:37] Right fantastic uh brandy where can people find you online. Guest: [47:39] My i have a link tree it's in the show notes all the places you can reach me i have two shows coming up on the 7th of may i think at turf club in st paul i'll be opening for guy branham so that's very exciting and then on the 15th. Guest: [47:53] Of may i'm going to be part of the riff tracks stand-up show. So I'll be performing with Bill Corbett, Kevin Murphy, you know, like Mary Jo Peel, and a bunch of other comics are going to be there. So yeah, those are the two places you can check me out and just check out my link tree and definitely like, please watch Sid and TP. It's so funny. It's so funny. Tara: [48:11] Amazing. Dave: [48:14] Sarah, what do you got? Sarah: [48:16] Speaking of Toronto and tempo, we'll be talking about Top Chef colon Destination Canada. Like, calm down. But I wanted to double back to Sid and TP, which I'm definitely adding to the list at the top, because that's giving me Back to the Baja vibes, which is Theo Pinson and Justin Jackson's show, which I think Felton's on there most of the time. But then sometimes they have like legit guys who weren't like the eighth man on an NBA roster who was known for dancing, like Theo Pinson, who I love. But that sounds like the WNBA version of that, and I'm excited to check it out. Less exciting, this season of Top Chef. I still like the show, but this season is really struggling to get momentum. The challenge briefs are needlessly Byzantine every single week, multiple times, like the quickfire and the Elimination Challenge are both like way too complicated. And they are, they're in Canada. So obviously they are trying to introduce and incorporate Canadian cuisine and food culture, but it just feels really surface and shoehorned. It doesn't feel organic. And it's like they're trying to do all of them at once. Like one maple syrup challenge in the premiere and then figure something else out. There are other food things. I mean, Canadian oysters alone, and no, I don't mean prairie oysters, from either coast. That could have been an episode... Sarah: [49:39] No. Instead, we're dicking around with trivia contests that are not shot well, Canadian bacon, and Colicchio seems 10 times more engaged in Last Chance Kitchen, which is equally overcomplicated. And while I'm up, I am not a crackpot, but Last Chance Kitchen should be a slight, slight twist on whatever sent the most recent chef home. If you biffed a duck cook, then add one other element in last chance kitchen to level the field but otherwise it is that same preparation of duck head to head and that is it no staggering the clock no switching the chef's dishes halfway through just let these people cook and stop calvin bawling the challenges to fucking death it's exhausting and desperate this show really from the pandemic on kind of settled into wherever the season was set. Padma just seemed really happy to be there. Kristen Kish is a great host, and I'm not complaining about her, but it's like once they switched hosts, they got really flinchy about the rest of the build of the show. It's not that complicated. Top and chef, you already know what to do. Calm down. Tara: [50:48] I love that let them cook here is literally let them cook, not just the expression. Dave: [50:53] I don't want to put anybody in a blast But I hate all cooking menu based Mean reactions Mean sentences like that They drive me nuts And I don't know Let him cook Now X is on the menu boys Just fuck off with all that I love cooking Cook is such a great Someone. Guest: [51:12] Gets cooked It's like roasted Cook is. Dave: [51:14] Such a better upgrade from roasted I like things getting cooked I don't like let him cook For some reason. Sarah: [51:22] Who will cook me? Tara: [51:25] Dave, I had no idea you felt this way. Dave: [51:27] It just drives me nuts. Tara: [51:28] I don't know why. Yesterday, I found out when we were taping another podcast that he hates that I always buy white bread. Now this. I'm learning so much about Dave. Dave: [51:36] That's not what I said. Go listen to Lizzie to Sassy. Tara: [51:38] He said he wants a divorce because I never let him buy whole wheat bread. Dave: [51:42] That is more accurate. Guest: [51:43] But they have white whole wheat bread, too. Dave: [51:46] That's not whole wheat bread. Guest: [51:46] You can get that because we buy it. Dave: [51:47] No, that's just white bread with molasses. Tara: [51:49] Okay, I'm sorry. Dave: [51:50] Yeah, Sarah, where can people find you? Sarah: [51:55] I went back to the Crime Scene, that's S-E-E-N, podcast to talk about Gone Girls. If you would like to hear two Sarah's bag on it and one Mari be entirely reasonable and basically change our minds, that's at CrimeScenePod.com. And as you're listening to this, that episode should be out. Dave: [52:17] All right, here we go. Oh, I've been watching Peaky Blinders with Tara. We decided to start that after devouring A Thousand Blows, aka AKB. And it's, you know, more of the same. It's got a slightly different vibe, a little more serious, I guess. But two things I'm enjoying. One, whatever the fuck Sam Neill is doing with his character, whatever his accent is, I don't know what's going on there. But I love everything about that guy. Tara: [52:41] He's Irish. Dave: [52:42] Kind of, yeah. But he's also this really creepy dude, doing really well with that role. Again, another My Whole Body's a Gun show, which I really enjoyed that genre. Oh, you think that's a gun? My Whole Body's a Gun. That's the genre. But I will say, I'm glad the seasons that we have yet to watch are relatively short because my brain is reaching a point where any more Nick Cave music is going to make it fucking explode. Too much Nick Cave, too much PJ Harvey. Just let's mix it up, guys. Whoever is the music director here, let's just like, let's bring in some other stuff. You got to do it. It's driving me fucking nuts. Okay. All right. We are off for a couple of weeks, but we are still bringing you content. Tara: [53:24] Yeah. Dave: [53:24] All right. Here's what's coming up in the Extra Hot Great Universe. Buckle in, E-E-H-G. We've got April Forsenning. Johnny Ciccato is the show. Murder and Hi-Fi is the episode. We are following that with a bonus. B-b-b-bonus. Extra Extra Hot Great. That is the second of this year's three of these. and Tara is bringing NewsRadio's Bill's autobiography to the what's the rubric again? Tara: [53:50] It's sitcom episodes about broadcasters writing a book. Dave: [53:54] Thank you very much. ESG Prime after that is Would You Rather? I was trying to figure out what the hell this meant. Tara: [54:00] Rathbory. Dave: [54:01] Just figured it out. It's making me laugh. Tara: [54:04] That's on the heels of our forcenning funanza. I decided to get even more absurd with it so that's why it's Would You Rather Rathbory. Dave: [54:11] Freaking Rathbory. Tara: [54:13] Yep. Dave: [54:13] Help me out with the pronunciation on our next show, please, Tara. Tara: [54:18] E-T-Wall. Dave: [54:19] E-T-Wall is the Gilmore Girls, but they're all ballet people show. That'll be on Extra Extra Hot. Great. E-H-G Prime, we've got an unlocked Patreon for you. We'll figure that out when we get to it. E-E-H-G after that is Wear Whatever the F You Want, the new show from the... Tara: [54:37] What Not to Wear People. Dave: [54:38] What Not to Wear People. Thank you. And then finally, before we are back in the studio live, we'll be talking about Netflix's The Four Seasons. So all that is coming your way soon. Please consider joining our club. It is at extrahotgreat.com slash club to get all of those extra, extra hot great episodes. Dave: [54:59] But Sarah... Speaking about the club. Sarah: [55:01] Yes. Well, you know, if in these times of economic uncertainty, if you would like to avail yourself of a Patreon membership free of charge, get in touch with me, bunting at tomato nation dot com. Or if you're already on the discord, you can reach out to me via direct message. But yeah, we have an extra hot, great mutual aid vault. You can withdraw a year's membership, access to the club. You get on the discord. You get all the extra episodes, all that good stuff. Or if you're in a slightly more tenable position financially and you would like to deposit a year's membership in the vault, you can do that too. Once again, that's bunting at tomatonation.com or DM me on the Discord and I can get into the details. But we've had about six or eight folks take withdrawals so far. And yeah, it's good. We want to keep everybody together. So if you want to either withdraw or deposit, let me know. Dave: [56:00] Yeah, that was a really great idea. Thank you to the person that originally pitched us. Sarah: [56:04] Thank you, Admiral Anonymous. Yes. Tara: [56:06] Yes. Guest: [56:06] As someone who, yeah, I pay for the bonus episodes. And yeah, that's awesome. I'm glad people can have that joy in their life still, no matter what. So yay. Dave: [56:14] We're in the business of providing joy. Tara: [56:17] We'll see if that continues in the canon segment. I feel like it probably won't. Dave: [56:29] It is time for the extra hot great canon presenting this week, Tara. Tara: [56:34] Hi, I submitted the Friends episode, The One with the Embryos. I submitted the primo episode, Game Champ. And now in what I guess has become a campaign to induct every sitcom episode about characters being very competitive about games, I'm bringing the panel Will and Grace Season 1, Episode 21, Alleycats, for induction into the canon. Here's why. Number one, it actually makes the viewer empathize with Rob and Ellen. Will, played by Eric McCormack, and Grace, Deborah Messing, are famously a gay guy and a straight woman who are now best friends long after an attempt at dating didn't work out. And we've already talked about that when we discussed Adam Grossworth's canon submission on Lowe's in the Mid-80s. Tom, played by Tom Gallop, and Ellen, Lee Allen-Baker, have been Will and Grace's straight couple friends since college, and normally their function is to provide contrast to show how deep Grace and Will's platonic bond is, maybe even deeper in some ways than Ellen and Rob's basic bitch relationship. For example, the pilot includes a pivotal scene in which Grace and Will destroy Rob and Ellen at Pyramid because the non-couple are more in sync with each other than the actual couple. So it is with charades in the cold open of Alley Cats, but this time things are different. Clip one. Tara: [57:45] It's a movie. It's one word. Okay. First word. Okay. Tara: [58:21] Well, you would have gotten that right Say psycho to me The next day Rob and Ellen go to Will's office to have a difficult conversation, clip two. Well, it's just, I have a, we have to. Say it. Tara: [59:02] Way when they're winning, don't they? We wouldn't know, Will. Will promises to talk to Grace about it, but when Ellen and Rob show up for dinner, they find out not only that he didn't get in touch with Grace, but that Grace only wants to communicate in charades. Clip three. I was at... Actually, let. Tara: [1:00:07] Word. Grace, I beg you, please just tell us. Yeah, use your words, Grace. She was at the toy store buying deluxe Scrabble. Even as someone with admitted grace tendencies, yes, I know what I am, I can acknowledge that she is being obnoxious and inconsiderate. For God's sake, woman, let Robin Ellen come over and just watch a movie. Number two, it vindicates grace. When Will finally does relay what Robin Ellen said at his office, he distances himself from the bad time they've been having, just as they did, clip four. It's nothing personal but your taunt. And you gloat. And you're aggressive. God, you're just so competitive. You like to compete, Grace. Tara: [1:01:06] But when we see the two pairs hanging out, the next time they're not at a play or having a picnic in Central Park, they're bowling, an activity Rob and Ellen presumably pick because it's a game they're good at. Grace rolls a casual three in her first frame. Will is alarmed that she's not approaching this with her usual fervor. As for Ellen, clip five. We can actually win this. Tara: [1:01:29] When we check back in at the bowling alley later, Grace's game has not improved and Rob and Ellen are gloating and Will is losing it. Clip six. Tara: [1:01:38] It's never their turn. They don't win. They lose. That's why we love them. It's the whole basis. Tara: [1:03:14] Sportsmanship crap has been making me sick. To the theme of Chariots of Fire, Grace rolls a strike, celebrates with double high fives and a hip check with her partner, and then both Grace and Will lay into Rob and Ellen so mercilessly that Ellen and Rob are left in a pile on the floor. This is certainly not good sportsmanship, but A, Grace was right about Will. He is just as competitive as she is and only fronts Michael Bluth style as the normal one in their relationship. And also B, Rob and Ellen's problem this whole time, or let's be honest, really just Ellen's, wasn't that they were sick of games. It was that they were sick of sucking because as soon as they got the slightest taste of victory, they turned into just as big a monster as Grace ever was. I won't go so far as to say that everyone is toxically competitive, but everyone in this storyline is. Number three, Karen also gets to try out being a decent person for once. In an off-screen scene, Karen, Megan Mullally, describes her never-seen husband Stan choked on his dinner and Karen had to rely on a busboy at the Palm to save his life, clip seven. My God, Karen, that's awful. I mean, to watch your husband almost choke. Tara: [1:04:42] Money to some school or something? I mean, look at me. I'm still shaking. Jack, Sean Hayes, gets a recessa Annie from somewhere or other and teaches Karen CPR, which she almost immediately gets to try out when Bernie, a repairman who's been working in Grace's office for a couple of days, has an apparent heart attack. That a hot EMT, played by former Diet Coke commercial hunk Lucky Venuse, shout out to all my 90s girls, gets to show up in the aftermath for both Karen and Jack to hit on is a bonus. Another bonus for us is Jack gently shoving Karen off Grace's drafting table by her head and Mulally flailing her arms as she goes down, but in the medium of podcasting, You just have to take her word for both that. And also, the Karen's outfit in that last clip really is a winner. Can I make it a hat trick for Game Night canon submissions? That's up to you, and I will try my very hardest to put the grace and gracious, if it doesn't go my way, and not pout about it behind your back. Dave: [1:05:37] All right, Sarah, start us off. Sarah: [1:05:39] I'm not sure you want to start with me, but yeah, this show is everything that I dislike about sitcoms traditionally. And this episode was right up there. I laughed twice and it was not in any scene with Grace. I get what you're going for. And there are structural things to recommend this. But I feel like I had this moment at the end where they're doing like the Vangelis comes in or like whatever, like copyright compliant version of Chariots of Fire that networks are allowed to use. Tara: [1:06:16] No, it's the real thing. Sarah: [1:06:17] Comes in they go to slow-mo and there should be a wing of the tiny canon that's like best uses of victorious chariots of fire music to comedic effect and i would definitely vote for this sequence for that your your presentation did prompt me to think about the subtlety believe it or not with which they kind of hung a light on the fact that will's competitiveness just sort of is not noteworthy or noticed. And of course, the woman gets banged with, you know, you're too competitive and it's off-putting. And so there's that sexism there that they don't really get into, which is probably wise. But then on the other side, like in the Karen storyline, there's just so much. I mean, I understand this is the character, but there's just like a lot of classist and borderline racist shit. She says that I just don't enjoy the show. It is just taking place on a wavelength that I don't like. So with respect for the Game Time Troika and for some of the things that I think the episode did do well, it does not get there for me. But I am also someone who tends to avoid this show, so maybe I should just abstain. Dave? Tara: [1:07:31] You can't abstain. Dave: [1:07:32] I'm already on the record. Yeah, you can't abstain. I'm already on the record with Will and Grace that I do not like the show. I do not think it's funny at best. And I think it's sometimes kind of offensive in the stuff they do at worst at times. And we've already litigated that in past Will and Grace canon. So I won't do that again here. But yeah, I didn't find this episode funny, especially when you compare it to your other examples. Like the Friends quiz episode is an all-timer. And it's good there because it's a one-to-one, like it's quiz and quiz. I felt going to bowling as the catalyst was like a step down from doing charades. Like charades is so much more personal and in your face and like something you have to connect with somebody else to do properly at its core. And then bowling is throwing a heavy ball down a lane. So I felt that was probably a mistake as far as the structure goes. I don't think Tara was counting on my vote. This is not a surprise that I'm going to vote this way, but Will and Grace is just like show non grata to me. I just don't find it entertaining or funny at all. Anything to add to this, Brandy? Number one Will and Grace fan on Earth. Guest: [1:08:36] I mean, I liked Will and Grace. I think that, I mean, you know, it's fine. I think that I wouldn't say this rises to the level of Nonac, but I think that like this is a good example of like when Grace is at her worst, like just read the room, like be like you know like and i think this isn't like a good episode of well and grace i like um it's just very much like a good example of them being at their truly awful with no redeeming characteristics like in that like there are episodes where you're like okay karen is terrible but that is that is a funny predicament they got into and it this this has just felt kind of like a nothing burger to me okay. Dave: [1:09:12] How you feeling about this star. Tara: [1:09:13] You know sometimes you put a show on a list without necessarily watching it again before you do that and then you watch it and you think oh fuck well I guess I'm committed now and then you're committed and you just have to go through with it I'm not saying that's the case this time I'm just saying it's something that happens on occasion. Dave: [1:09:33] Yeah up over the ladder charge against the enemy lines alright well this one didn't go your way but let's make this official Sarah D. Bunting what say you canon worthy or not. Sarah: [1:09:45] Uh no No, I'm sorry. Dave: [1:09:47] Brandy. Guest: [1:09:48] Nope. Dave: [1:09:48] And that's going to be a no for me as well. Tara: [1:09:51] Well, not even a pity vote, just for the sake of it. Just kidding. Dave: [1:09:55] We're all very honest voters here. Tara: [1:09:56] Of course. Dave: [1:09:56] We're voting where we can. Tara: [1:09:58] I understand. Dave: [1:09:59] Yes. All right. So Will and Grace, season one, episode 21, Alleycats. You're unfortunately not inducted into the Extra. Not Great Ken. Dave: [1:10:16] americans love a winner yeah and will not tolerate a loser nope this episode so long yeah uh it is time to discover who is the winner and loser of the week sarah has this week's winner. Sarah: [1:10:29] I do. And this reference is for exactly two people. You know who you are and you know that I love you. The Bold and the Beautiful does not want Jack Wagner to leave here now. They are bringing back good old Jack Wagner to everyone's favorite half hour soap. And I might swing back in and start watching it again because it really is only like 17 minutes of your life. So welcome back, Frisco. Dave: [1:10:56] And Loser of the Week. Tara: [1:10:57] Loser of the Week is Mickey Rourke, proving every single Jenna 30 Rock joke about him true. He was on Celebrity Big Brother in the UK. He got a formal warning after using a homophobic slur at Jojo Siwa. Not the one you might think, but still offensive. And then got kicked out before the end of the first week over that, plus threatening and aggressive language toward a fellow contestant during a cast. Not the threatening and aggressive language of telling Jojo Siwa, you're not going to be a lesbian after you spend this time with me. I'm going to tie you up. Yeah. What the fuck? So gross, disgusting pig. Make you roll. Dave: [1:11:39] This is not me justifying it or anything. But is this the guy that like smacked his head up and he's like kind of a little messed up upstairs now? Tara: [1:11:47] I think that is true. Dave: [1:11:48] I know he had weird surgery and stuff. I know that's why he looks weird. Sarah: [1:11:51] Well, and he also, like, in The Wrestler, obviously, but then was, like, trying to be a boxer. He was, like, that method guy. So I'm not saying he was awesome before, but there's definitely some traumatic brain injury in the mix now. And you're welcome for that segue, David T. Cole. Dave: [1:12:08] All right. Do you know what? Tara: [1:12:09] Speaking of scrambled brain eggs. Dave: [1:12:12] Speaking of scrambled brain eggs, you know what time it is? Tara: [1:12:15] It's game time. Sarah: [1:12:15] Oh, game time. Dave: [1:12:28] We are almost at the maximum number of episodes that you can have during a game time season. The scores are Tara with four. She wins today. She wins. Sarah with three. Value Guest with four. So Tara and Value Guest can clinch it today. So a lot at stake today as we are playing Return of the Return of the Steep Incline Climber from Erica, who earns herself an extra credit. topic of her choosing plus a free shirt from our store at throughmethods.com. Each answer in this game is a number. You will accrue points based on how far your answer is from the correct answer, lowest score at the end of the game win. So it's closest to the pin. It's not price is right rule. So if you guess 11 for a 10 answer, you get one point. If you guess nine, you also get one point. Each bullseye answer subtracts 10 points from your score. So if you get a rate on, you get to remove 10 smackers. And if you win the Grosworth Equalizer Challenge Zone, your point total will go down by 20. Tara: [1:13:32] Oh my god. Sarah: [1:13:33] Oh shit. Okay. Dave: [1:13:35] All questions concern how many episodes into a show a certain event happened. Tara: [1:13:40] Okay. Dave: [1:13:40] So that is what we're doing here. Sarah: [1:13:42] Oh wow, okay. Dave: [1:13:42] We've got 27 questions and a tiebreaker or two if we need them. So no steal meals because you're all playing all questions and you're going to lock in your answers and you're going to be honest. If you start hesitating after I ask your answer, I know you're cheating and you will be ejected from the stadium. All right. Are we ready to play Return of the Returner, the steep incline climber? Tara: [1:14:05] Yes, sir. Sarah: [1:14:05] Yes. Guest: [1:14:06] Yep. Dave: [1:14:06] Not yet, because we need to know the order such as it is. We will start with Tara. All right. So this is going to be the reveal order for your numbers. We'll go Tara, then Brandy, then Sarah for our reveals. Okay. How many episodes into the X-Files are the lone gunmen introduced? So hands up when you've locked in your answer. Everybody is locked in. We start with Tara. Tara, how many episodes into the X-Files were the lone gunman introduced? Tara: [1:14:40] 19. Dave: [1:14:41] 19. Brandy? Guest: [1:14:44] 18. Dave: [1:14:45] Sarah? Sarah: [1:14:47] 33. Dave: [1:14:48] The lone gunman were introduced in the 17th episode of the X-Files. Tara was too off. Guest: [1:14:56] I haven't even seen the show. I just went out of five. Tara: [1:14:58] Incredible. Dave: [1:14:58] Brandy was one off, almost got the bullseye, and Sarah was 16 off. All right, number two. How many episodes into Archer is the Archer Bob's Burgers crossover episode? Hands up when you're locked in. Tara's locked in. Sarah's locked in. Brandy's locked in. We start with Brandy here. How many episodes into Archer was the Archer Bob's Burgers crossover? Guest: [1:15:22] 24. Dave: [1:15:23] 24. Sarah D. Bunting? Sarah: [1:15:26] 22. Dave: [1:15:27] Tara? Tara: [1:15:27] 40. Dave: [1:15:28] 40. Archer's Bob Berger's Archer crossover episode was the 37th episode of that show. So Tara is three off. Brandy is 13 off. Sarah is 15 off. Question number three. How many episodes into Breaking Bad does Walter White watch Jessie's girlfriend Jane die? Spoilers. Brandy, Tara, Sarah all locked in. Sarah D. Bunting, start us off. Sarah: [1:15:53] 17. Dave: [1:15:55] 17. Tara? Tara: [1:15:57] 33. Dave: [1:15:58] 33. Three, and Brandy. Guest: [1:15:59] 24. Dave: [1:16:01] In Breaking Bad, Walter watches Jessie's girlfriend die in the 19th episode. So Tara is 14 off. Brandy is five off, but Sarah just two off. Nicely done. How many episodes into ER does Dr. Romano lose his arm to a helicopter? Tara: [1:16:21] Oh, no. Dave: [1:16:23] All right, lock in. We're going to start with Tara here. Tara: [1:16:26] 60. Dave: [1:16:27] Tara says 60. Brandy says? Guest: [1:16:31] 50. Dave: [1:16:32] 50, 5-0? Guest: [1:16:33] Mm-hmm. Dave: [1:16:34] And Sarah? Sarah: [1:16:36] 85. Dave: [1:16:37] 85. Tara: [1:16:38] I think you won this one. Dave: [1:16:39] Dr. Romano loses his arm to a helicopter in the 180th episode of E.R. Sarah: [1:16:45] Oh, shit. Tara: [1:16:46] I knew 60 was low. Guest: [1:16:47] But Jesus. Dave: [1:16:48] Tara just gained 120 points. Brandy gained 130 points. And Sarah gained 95 points. Dang is right. Guest: [1:16:57] Oh, wow. Dave: [1:16:58] How many episodes into Frasier, and I don't know, I'm Frasier, does Daphne learn Niles is in love with her? Tara: [1:17:05] Oh, no. Dave: [1:17:07] I'm going to start with Brandy after everybody is locked in. Sarah's locked in. Tara's locked in. Brandy's locked in. All right, Brandy, how many episodes into Frasier does Daphne learn that Niles is in love with her? Guest: [1:17:19] 60. Dave: [1:17:20] 60. Sarah? Sarah: [1:17:22] 90. Dave: [1:17:23] 90 to Sarah. Tara? Tara: [1:17:24] 150. Dave: [1:17:26] 150 to Tara. Ooh, so close. Sarah: [1:17:28] Probably greater. Dave: [1:17:28] In Frasier, Daphne learns Niles is in love with her in the 154th episode of the series, which means Tara was only four off, but 94 for Brandy and 64 for Sarah. All right, here's one especially for Sarah and Tara. How many episodes in Beverly Hills 90210 does Dylan get married and widowed on the same day? Tara: [1:17:50] Oh, no. Dave: [1:17:52] And we're going to start this one with Sarah after everybody is locked in. Everybody's thinking... Dan, everybody is locked in. All right. Sarah D. Bunting, what say you? Dylan getting married and widowed on the same day. How many episodes in? Sarah: [1:18:10] 130. Dave: [1:18:10] 130 says Sarah. Tara says? Tara: [1:18:13] 170. Dave: [1:18:14] 170. And Brandy? Guest: [1:18:17] 142. Dave: [1:18:19] 142. Well, get this, everybody. The non-host of Beverly Hills 90210's recap podcast, again with this, was closest to the pin, which was again, 154 episodes in. So Tara was 16 away, Brandy only 12, and then Sarah was 24 away. All pretty good numbers, but Brandy was the closest to the pin. Tara: [1:18:42] Dang. Sarah: [1:18:43] Well done. Dave: [1:18:44] How many episodes into CSI Original Rays does Wallace Langham, playing David Hodges, join the opening credits? We're going to start with Tara after everybody is locked in. So this is original CSI. Sarah's locked in. Tara's locked in. Brandy's locked in. All right, Tara, how many episodes into CSI did that happen? Tara: [1:19:03] 128. Dave: [1:19:04] Brandy? Guest: [1:19:05] 100. Dave: [1:19:06] Sarah? Sarah: [1:19:08] 133. Dave: [1:19:09] And I can tell you that Sarah is the closest. That happened 166 episodes in. So Tara was 38 away. Brandy 66 away. Sarah defunting 33 away. How many episodes? into Buffy the Vampire Slayer, does Willow meet Tara? Is it Tara or Tara in the show? Tara: [1:19:30] I forget. Tara, I think. Dave: [1:19:32] All right. All right. Everybody's thinking. Brandy's going to lead us off after everybody's locked in. Tara is locked in. Sarah's locked in. Brandy's locked in. All right, Brandy, how many episodes into Buffy the Vampire Slayer does Willow meet Tara? Guest: [1:19:46] 85. Dave: [1:19:47] 85. Sarah D. Bunting? Sarah: [1:19:50] 55. Dave: [1:19:52] Tara? Tara: [1:19:52] 90. Dave: [1:19:54] Buffy the Vampire Slayer saw Willow meet Tara 66 episodes in, so Tara gains 24 points. Brandy 19, but Sarah got just 11 off. Tara: [1:20:05] Nice work. Dave: [1:20:05] No bullseyes yet. All right, we'll do a quick score break after this one to let you know where everybody is in their totals. Yes, I am using a spreadsheet. Yes, I figured out how to use spreadsheets to calculate totals. Yes, you can be proud of me. Here we go. Serity Bundy will lead us off. How many episodes into Penny Dreadful does Caliban rip Proteus in half? Tara: [1:20:24] And what a fucking great scene that was. Sarah: [1:20:26] Oh, my God. Dave: [1:20:27] Penny Dreadful was super fun in this first season. I really enjoyed Penny Dreadful. Speaking about pig fuckers. Tara: [1:20:33] Yeah. Dave: [1:20:34] All right. How many episodes into Penny Dreadful does Caliban rip Proteus in half? Sarah D. Bunting is going to lead us off after everybody is locked in. Sarah D. Bunting, how many episodes in? Sarah: [1:20:44] I really don't know. So 11. Dave: [1:20:47] 11, says Sarah. Tara? Tara: [1:20:49] I don't either, so I'm going to say eight. Dave: [1:20:51] And Brandy. Guest: [1:20:52] 24. Dave: [1:20:53] That happens in the second episode of Penny Dreadful. Guest: [1:20:57] I've never even seen the show. Sarah: [1:20:59] Jeez. I'm kidding. Guest: [1:21:00] This is a bloodbath. Sarah: [1:21:01] Soon they forget. Tara: [1:21:02] I have, but it didn't help. Dave: [1:21:04] That is the best answer. So Tara got six points. Brandy, 22. Sarah, nine points. All right, let's get them scores. I can tell you that Brandy's in third place with 362. Sarah in second with 269. And Tara with 227 currently in first. Let's get right back to it. How many episodes into 24 is Kim menaced by a cougar? Tara: [1:21:30] Oh, no. Dave: [1:21:31] I'm going to start with Tara after everybody's locked in. Was that a cougar? Was that a mountain lion? Tara: [1:21:35] I think it was a mountain lion. Dave: [1:21:36] Sarah's locked in. Tara: [1:21:38] I can't remember which season it was in. Dave: [1:21:40] Tara is locked in. Brandy's singing about mountain lions. She is locked in. All right, Tara, start us off. How many episodes into 24 was the cougar? Tara: [1:21:48] I'm going to say 36, but I'm not confident. Dave: [1:21:51] 36 from Tara to Brandy? Guest: [1:21:54] 29. Dave: [1:21:55] 29. And Sarah? Sarah: [1:21:58] 32. Dave: [1:21:59] 32. So close. Kim was menaced by a cougar in the 35th episode of 24. Tara is one off. Tara: [1:22:11] Wow. Dave: [1:22:11] Brandy was only six off. Sarah was only three off. Good answers from everybody on that one. Moving on. How many episodes into Northern Exposure does Chris in the morning use a trebuchet to fling a piano into a lake? Sarah: [1:22:25] Oh, my God. Dave: [1:22:26] A piano, not a coffin, a piano. Tara: [1:22:28] Right. Dave: [1:22:29] All right. We're going to start with Brandy on this one. Once everybody is locked in, Sarah is locked in. Tara is locked in. Guest: [1:22:37] 52. Dave: [1:22:38] 52 from Brandy to Sarah. Sarah: [1:22:41] I don't remember this at all. I'm going to say 20. Dave: [1:22:44] And Tara. Tara: [1:22:45] 27? Dave: [1:22:47] Northern Exposure saw Chris in the morning use a trebuchet to fling a piano into a lake, which is great fun, if you ask me. I would have paid money to be there. In the 29th episode of the series, Tara 2 off, Brandy 23 off, Sarah 9 off. Sarah: [1:23:04] Sarah D. Dave: [1:23:05] Bundy will start first with one made for Sarah D. Bundy. How many episodes into the Brady Bunch does Marsha get smoked in the face with a football? Tara: [1:23:13] First of all, love that way of phrasing it. Sarah: [1:23:15] Yeah phrasing and i actually don't totally know but i guess we'll find out together. Dave: [1:23:20] All right everybody's locked in let's hear your answer sarah dibutty uh 51 51 from sarah was that your answer no i was. Tara: [1:23:30] Gonna say 50 but i'll change it to 45 just to be sporting not that i have any knowledge of anything. Dave: [1:23:36] At all brandy how many episodes into brady bunch the football 62 62 i'm here to tell you that happened the 90th episode of the Brady Bunch. Tara was half off there, so she gets 45 points for her 45 guests. Brandy was the closest with 62. She gets 28 points and Sarah gets 39 points. Oh boy, here we go. Nobody's going to know this one. Maybe Brandy, but definitely not Sarah, Tara, or me. How many episodes into Mystery Science Theater 3000? Does Joel Hodgkin leave the show. Tara will start us off. Sarah's locked in. Tara's locked in. Brandy's thinking about it. Tara: [1:24:14] Brandy's doing math in her head. Guest: [1:24:15] I'm going to go with 30, though, and even 30. Dave: [1:24:19] 30 from Brandy. Sarah? Sarah: [1:24:21] 8. Dave: [1:24:22] 8. And Tara? Tara: [1:24:24] 27. Dave: [1:24:25] Oh, boy. You guys are way off. That happened in the 107th episode. Tara: [1:24:30] Oh, my God. Okay. Dave: [1:24:32] So add 82, Tara. 77 to Brandy. 99 to... Guest: [1:24:37] This is chaos. Tara: [1:24:38] Yikes. Dave: [1:24:39] All right. We are over halfway done, I think, with this question. It will start with Brandy. And we have, how many episodes into Brooklyn Nine-Nine does Rosa come out to her parents? Tara is locked in. Sarah is locked in. All right, Brandy, start us off. Guest: [1:24:57] 25. Dave: [1:24:58] 25. Sarah? Sarah: [1:25:00] 65. Dave: [1:25:01] 65. Tara? Tara: [1:25:03] 80. Dave: [1:25:04] 80. That happened in the 100th episode. So Tara got 20. Sarah: [1:25:09] Shit, I was going to say that. Dave: [1:25:11] Brandy, 75. Sarah, 35. All right, this will take us into our halfway mark score break and the Gross Horse Equalizer Challenge Zone. How many episodes into Quantum Leap does Sam leap into a woman for the first time? I'm going to start off with Sarah after everybody locks in their guesses. Sarah and Tara are locked in. Brandy's thinking. Brandy is locked in. All right, Sarah D. Bunding, lead us off. How many episodes into Quantum Leap does Sam leap into a woman for the very first time? Sarah: [1:25:41] 33. Dave: [1:25:42] Tara? Tara: [1:25:43] 13. Dave: [1:25:44] And Brandy? Guest: [1:25:45] 22. Dave: [1:25:47] We have our first bullseye that happened into the 13th episode. Tara: [1:25:51] Tara. Sarah: [1:25:53] Nice. Tara: [1:25:54] I thought it might be because usually a season order is like 13 and then you get the back nine. I was like, this is the one they're going to use for the first break. And I was right. Dave: [1:26:04] All right. Nicely sussed out. Brandy gains nine. Sarah gains 20. So now I'll give you the scores here. So Brandy in third with 580 points. Sarah, 474 points. And Tara in the lead with 365 after that 10-point reduction. All right, which means that, Brandy, you are in the GrowthSource Equalizer Challenge Zone. I'm pulling an audible here, but I'm pulling an audible that is reasoned, and I will tell you what it is. Originally, Erica suggested that the Grosso Equalizer Challenge be half your total, and now seeing how these scores are actually progressing with the amounts involved, I'm going to say that that is actually a great way to do it. So, Brandy, you are now playing to half your current score. Tara: [1:26:59] Okay. Dave: [1:26:59] This is going to be worth a lot. And if you get it, we'll make my spreadsheet not work anymore. So consider throwing it. Tara: [1:27:05] Okay. Guest: [1:27:08] At the rate this is going, it might not be intentional. Dave: [1:27:11] All right. Pick a number between one and seven, please. Guest: [1:27:14] Six. Dave: [1:27:15] All right. Six. You have chosen the Cheerio Pursuit Pop Culture DVD set two. So I'm going to read you the TV questions from here. I'm just going to do a set, not three and six. I'm just going to say if you get four, you've reached your goal. All right. So rather than having to make you do three to get and then six to get them all. So we'll split the difference. We'll say four. What show got viewers in the mood with a theme song that suggested grab a beer and drop your pants. Send your wife and kids to France. Guest: [1:27:48] No, Drew Carey's show. Dave: [1:27:50] Anybody know that? That's The Man Show. Guest: [1:27:53] Oh, and I watched that. Weirdly. Dave: [1:27:57] What animated TV show had characters with names like Brainy, Lazy, Jokey, Snappy, and Slouchy? Guest: [1:28:04] Oh, The Smurfs. The Smurfs is correct. Dave: [1:28:08] Next question coming at you. What designer on Seinfeld published Cosmo Kramer's memoirs as if they were his own? Guest: [1:28:20] I don't know. Isaac Mizrahi. Dave: [1:28:23] Jay Peterman in Universe Designer. All right. You need to get all three of these. What sitcom introduced the urban sombrero described as combining the spirit of old Mexico with a little big city panache? Guest: [1:28:38] I don't know. Simpsons. Dave: [1:28:41] That was Seinfeld again. That was Seinfeld. So unfortunately, we're not going to be halving your points, but my spreadsheet thanks you. Let's get back into the game, shall we? Tara. Tara: [1:28:51] Yeah. Dave: [1:28:52] How many episodes to Star Trek Voyager does Tom Paris turn into a salamander after breaking Warp 10? Guest: [1:29:00] Which show is this again? Sorry. Dave: [1:29:01] Star Trek Voyager. Star Trek Shovel, as I call it. Guest: [1:29:04] All right. Dave: [1:29:06] Sarah's locked in. Tara's locked in. 70. To Brandy. Guest: [1:29:10] 60. Dave: [1:29:11] To Sarah. Sarah: [1:29:13] 11. Dave: [1:29:15] Star Trek Voyager saw Tom Paris turn into a salamander after 31 episodes. Tara: [1:29:21] Whoa. Dave: [1:29:21] So Sarah was the closest to the pin, 20 away, Brandy 29 away, and Tara 39 away. This is question 17. Tara: [1:29:29] It's pretty good. Sarah: [1:29:30] It's pretty good. Dave: [1:29:31] How many episodes into Project Runway does Keith become the first person to be kicked off the show for breaking the rules? Lock in and then we'll start with Brandy. All right, Brandy, what do you got here? Guest: [1:29:43] 37. Dave: [1:29:44] 37 to Brandy. Sarah? Sarah: [1:29:48] 28. Dave: [1:29:49] And Tara? Tara: [1:29:50] 42. Dave: [1:29:51] Sarah D. Bundy very close. That happened in the 30th episode. So Sarah D. Bundy just gaining two points. Brandy gaining seven points. Tara gaining 12 points. We'll start with Sarah for our next one. How many episodes into Futurama does Al Gore make his first appearance? Sarah just locked in with a look that says, This is a totally random number I'll be throwing at you in a moment. Sarah: [1:30:16] Everybody's locked in. Dave: [1:30:16] Let's hear that number, Sarah. Please get a bullseye. Sarah: [1:30:19] Orlando Vega says 33. Dave: [1:30:22] 33. Tara? Tara: [1:30:24] 60. Dave: [1:30:25] Brandy? Guest: [1:30:26] 45. Dave: [1:30:27] Well, Sarah D. Bunting, you are the closest. That happened to the 29th episode. So you're only four away. Brandy only 16 away. Tara, who watches Futurama, 31 away. Sarah: [1:30:38] Oh, yeah. Ignorance is bliss, folks. Dave: [1:30:42] All right, this is question. All right. I know Sarah has, in the recent past, re-watched this show. We're talking about Cheers. How many episodes into Cheers is Eddie LeBeck killed by a Zamboni? Lock in, and then we'll start with Tara. All right. Everybody's locked in. Tara? Tara: [1:31:05] 87. Dave: [1:31:07] Brandy? Guest: [1:31:08] 62. Dave: [1:31:09] And Sarah? Sarah: [1:31:11] 101. Dave: [1:31:13] Well, you were all quite a bit off, but Sarah was the closest to 175, which means she gained 74. Brandy, 113 added to your total, and Tara, 88 added to your total. How many episodes into Dawson's Creek? Does Mitch Leary buy his final ice cream cone? Tara: [1:31:33] Oh, no. Oh, no. Sarah: [1:31:37] Oh, shit. Dave: [1:31:38] A.K.A. his death. All right, so we're going to start with Brandy after everybody's locked in. Dawson's Creek. How many episodes into Dawson's Creek does Dawson's dad die in the episode? All right, everybody is locked in. What do you got here, Brandy? Guest: [1:31:54] 95. Dave: [1:31:55] 95 from Brandy. Sarah? Sarah: [1:31:58] 80. Dave: [1:31:59] And Tara? Tara: [1:32:01] 85. That's my guess. Funny that we're all in the zone. Dave: [1:32:04] You're all very close. Brandy was 11 away with her guess of 95. Tara: [1:32:10] Oh, nice. Dave: [1:32:10] Sarah was four away with her guess of 80 and Tara was one away with her guess of 85 the answer 84 oh my god. Sarah: [1:32:19] Wow that's crazy. Dave: [1:32:21] Alright getting towards the end guys how many episodes into Angel do our heroes take control of Wolfram and Hart everybody's locked in then we'll start with Sarah alright Sarah D. Bunting how many episodes into Angel do they take over the law firm 88 88. Tara: [1:32:40] 65. Dave: [1:32:41] 65. Brandy? Guest: [1:32:44] 85. Dave: [1:32:45] 85. We have a bullseye, people. We have a bullseye. Tara Ariano furthest away with her guess of 65, getting her 23 points. Brandy, three away. But Sarah D. Bunting correctly guessed 88. Tara: [1:33:03] Nice. Dave: [1:33:04] So we are going to subtract 10 points from her score. Next up, how many episodes into South Park does Cartman feed Scott Tennerman some questionable chili? Everybody's locked in. We're going to start with Tara. Tara: [1:33:18] 59. Dave: [1:33:19] Brandy? Guest: [1:33:21] 61. Dave: [1:33:22] Sarah? Sarah: [1:33:23] 69. Dave: [1:33:26] We've got another bullseye. Tara: [1:33:28] No way. Dave: [1:33:28] Tara is the furthest away with her 59, 10 points. Tara: [1:33:32] Great. Dave: [1:33:33] Brandy, 61, 8 points. Sarah D. Bunting once again with the bullseye. Tara: [1:33:37] Gorgeous. Dave: [1:33:37] 69. Guest: [1:33:39] Nice. Sarah: [1:33:40] Just yanking him out of my butt. Dave: [1:33:43] All right. How I Met Your Mother. How many episodes into that show does Marshall give Barney his fifth and final slap in the slap bet? All right, Sarah. How many episodes into How I Met Your Mother does Marshall give Barney the final slap? Sarah: [1:33:59] 135. Dave: [1:34:02] 135 to Tara. Tara: [1:34:04] 150. Dave: [1:34:05] 150 to Brandy. Guest: [1:34:07] 95. Dave: [1:34:08] 95. Going low. Everybody's pretty far off here. The correct answer, 206 episodes in. So we've got 56 points added to Tara, 111 added to Brandy, and 71 added to Sarah. Last three questions coming at you now. How many episodes into Seinfeld does Susan die from licking toxic envelopes? Walk in and we'll start with Tara. All right. Everybody's locked in. Tara, how many episodes into Seinfeld? Does Susan die from envelopes? Tara: [1:34:39] 95. Dave: [1:34:40] Brandy? Guest: [1:34:41] 79. Dave: [1:34:42] And Sarah? Sarah: [1:34:43] 88. Dave: [1:34:45] Well, the answer was over 100. It's 134, which means Tara was the closest, 39 away, followed by Sarah, 46 away, and Brandy, 55 away. Penultimate question is, how many episodes into America's Next Top Model are we gifted Allison's bizarre Pot Lead'em song? All right, lock in. I'm going to start with Brandy for our top model question. All right, Brandy, how many episodes do we get? Pot, lead them. Guest: [1:35:14] 47. Dave: [1:35:16] Sarah? Sarah: [1:35:17] 90. Dave: [1:35:19] And Tara? Tara: [1:35:21] 131. Dave: [1:35:22] Again, very high number and you're all pretty low on it. 207th episode is where that happens. Sarah: [1:35:27] She was on so long. Dave: [1:35:28] So Sarah, you are 117 away. Brandy, 160 away. Tara, 76 away. Last question coming at you. How many episodes into MASH is the infamous Dreams episode? Sarah's looking scared now, like genuinely, like there's a murderer in the room. We've broken Sarah. Sarah: [1:35:48] I forgot that existed and I was happier. Dave: [1:35:51] All right, so we're going to start with you, Sarah. Sarah: [1:35:53] 212. Dave: [1:35:55] 212. Tara? Tara: [1:35:57] 250. Dave: [1:35:58] 50? Tara: [1:35:59] Yes, 250. Dave: [1:36:00] Got it, thank you. And Brandy? Guest: [1:36:03] 147. Dave: [1:36:04] 147. I can tell you that happened in the 195th episode of MASH. So we've got 17 for Sarah. We've got 55 for Tara. And we've got 48 for Brandy. And that is regulation. Are you guys ready to hear the scores? Tara: [1:36:24] Yeah, I'm scared. Sarah: [1:36:25] Not really. Dave: [1:36:26] It's pretty close. Tara: [1:36:27] Okay. Dave: [1:36:28] All right. So in third place is Brandy with 1,141 points. Now, before you get down on that, that is the highest score we've ever had in game time. So congratulations. You set a new record. Now I'm going to give you the unadjusted scores for Sarah and Tara. Sarah had 829 unadjusted points. Tara had 805 unadjusted points. When we adjust for their bullseyes, Sarah D. Bunting, 809, Tara Arellano, 795. Very, very close. Sarah: [1:37:12] So close. Dave: [1:37:12] But Tara eeked out a victory today. Sarah: [1:37:15] Excellent work. Dave: [1:37:21] Which also means that, Tariy Ariano, you have won the season of game time. Sarah: [1:37:25] So I am you succeed. Dave: [1:37:27] You're the best. Around. Sarah: [1:37:30] Around. Dave: [1:37:30] Never gonna keep you down. Never gonna fade out. Or else Spotify's gonna ding us with their music tech. Dave: [1:37:42] All right, guys. That is it for this, oh my God, we're over two hours, episode of Extra Hot Great Jumbo. Tara: [1:37:51] That ought to hold the little SOBs. Dave: [1:37:53] We started by looking into Black Mirror's seventh season before going around the dial with stops at Hacks, the Sid and TP Show, and Top Chef Destination Canada. Tara bowled a gutter ball on her Will and Grace cannon pitch. We crowned winners and losers of the week. And Tara was the winner of this week's game time and season from Erica. Next up is the April 4th hitting on this Friday's Extra Extra hot great. Remember We're listening I am David T. Cole and on behalf of Tarahiano Did. Tara: [1:38:31] You see God? Is she mad at me? Dave: [1:38:33] Sarah D. Sarah: [1:38:34] Bunting Says psycho to me And Brandy Brown. Guest: [1:38:37] What if game time points but too many? Dave: [1:38:44] We'll see you next time right here on Extra Hot Great. Guest: [1:38:52] We have a really big day and we.