Forcening Fun-anza!

Dave: [0:16] This is the Extra Hot Great Podcast, episode 554 for the week of March 17th, 2025. I am tax collection dog, David T. Cole, and I'm here with one last job, Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah: [0:34] Say it. Dave: [0:35] And the people's poet, Tara Ariano. Tara: [0:38] Hands up who likes me. We'll be right back. Dave: [0:50] Hello and welcome to another episode of extra hot great we're happy to have you here for our forcenning pool extravagant wait what's it called forcenning finanza forcenning finanza now the Forest Indy Pool is a feature on Extra Extra Hot Crate, our club-exclusive second episode of the week. There, what we usually do is pick one of these a month to lead our discussion. So somebody says, you must watch this, and then that gets picked in the draw, and then we must watch it. Except we did three of them, except this time we picked them instead of having a random draw. Dave: [1:26] So here we go. We're just going to do them. One, two, three. I am starting off with the first Forest Indy Pool show. It is The Chosen, Season 1, Episode 4, The Rock, on which it is built. Now, before I get into it, I just want to say. Tara: [1:43] Let the wide stick give you the edge. Speed stick, super dry. Dave: [1:47] Antiperspirant. Sarah: [1:48] The Chosen. Yeah. Dave: [1:50] This one comes from Iolanthe95. I don't know what that means, but. Tara: [1:55] Iolanthe. Dave: [1:57] Iolanthe90. Oh, I see. Iolanthe95. All right. Well, thank you very much for this. It was submitted in the days before we were asking for justification or reasoning for the forest setting. So that'll have to be one of the great mysteries of the world. Sarah: [2:11] Sure will. Dave: [2:12] Here's how this episode early on in The Chosen shakes down. So there's this Red Sea fisherman named Simon. He's apparently real bad at fishing because he owns his Roman occupiers like a lot in back taxes. Like he's kind of fucked. He's so in hock that he's helping the Roman garrison catch other fishermen who are not fishing like at the right place at the right time. His fisherman buddies shun him. His sick mother-in-law is dumped on him. His wife is mad at him. Everything sucks for Simon. On top of that, Dominus, a fruit-loving, Billy Zaney Roman boss type of dude, has put a personal tax collector slash snoop on Simon's ass to track him and note everything he does because everything sucks for Simon. This tax collector, Matthew, is a Jew working for the Romans, so no one on either side likes him. except for his dog. Also, Matthew might be on the spectrum. I don't know what this portrayal of this character is on the show. It is max weird. Tara: [3:14] I thought that too. Dave: [3:15] Yeah. Meanwhile, there's a rabbinate in their temple wringing their hands over some dude named John who dunks people in the river and calls the rabbi snakes. No bueno. They have power structure here to preserve. The big kahuna rabbi says this John guy sounds like this other dude in Jerusalem with long hair and a lot of crazy ideas, and then ends the meet. I need closure. Who's this person? Who? What's his name? Back at Simon's house, his brother Andrew runs in breathlessly, talking up this dude he just saw with his own eyes. This dude with long hair and a lot of crazy ideas in town. The Lamb of God. The Messiah's in town. Hang, hang, hang. Simon's like, why don't you just tell me the name of this guy? And Andrew talks around it because as we all know, sermonizers hate promotion. Simon is quite unimpressed because lambs of gods don't pay the bills and bills, man, he's got them. As the scene ends, we are treated to Matthew, the tax collector, skulking about behind one plant being spotted by Andrew in a scene straight out of Arrested Development. It is so bad. Dave: [4:26] Simon goes off to try to catch every fish in the Red Sea overnight to pay his dues. Then it is, tracking with my watch, 15 minutes of Simon not catching fish. Then Simon's helpful friends show up to help him not catch some fish. Then they turn to shore after catching no fish, where they spot at a distance this dude with long hair, and he's trying to tell a group of people some of his crazy ideas. Who is this dude with long hair and a lot of crazy ideas? Well, we never do get his name, but I know a famous orator when I see them. And ladies and gentlemen, it is the son of God, Mark Maron. Tara: [5:05] Who are his guys? Dave: [5:07] Mark Maron asked Simon, who is now on shore with his boat, if he can stand on his boat to continue his sermon because the people on the beach three feet away are having trouble hearing him. Now being six inches higher than he was just 10 seconds ago, Mark Maron delivers his speech. There's time for only one last parable. And because he's on the boat, Mark Maron says it should be about fish. The kingdom of heaven is like catching fish. You catch some fish. The good ones go into the barrels. The bad ones are thrown away. In the end of days, the barrel fish will go to heaven. The bad ones will get thrown into a place of fire. There is so much wrong with this metaphor. What the fuck? Are we looking into the hearts and minds of the fish to appraise their true nature here? Are the fish gasping for air and the barrels destined for the dinner plate happy to be chosen? Are people in heaven eaten by God? Sarah: [5:59] Can't we just get some tartar sauce? Dave: [6:03] Anyways, sermon over. Then Mark Maron says, Kalazam! And then million billion fish suddenly peer in Simon's net. Ka-ching! Fish rich! Simon then realizes this dude with long hair and his crazy ideas is the Messiah. Mark Maron says that he will make him a fisher of men, which makes a lot of sense because there's more meat on people than there are on fish. The episode ends with the head rabbi visiting John the Baptist in prison after his capture. He wants to know more about Marc Maron and wants to ask questions about some miracles he's heard about. The end. Sarah: [6:39] Point of order. They insist on calling John the Baptist the baptizer, which is the same way that they call zombies walkers on The Walking Dead. And, you know, relevant, just saying. Oh, my God, this was so slow. And then the credits are like this jazzy, like, it's the little fish, but from the back of someone's car that you're staring at when you're stuck in traffic like oh my god like i knew this existed i never thought to wonder why it existed but i also thought like that it would be i don't know like there's a lot of christians and you'd think they demand better from angel studios from this they're mark maronisaya but no they didn't god i wish it. Tara: [7:25] Was mark maron. Dave: [7:26] Just to rewind to the credits the credits are of the quality of a 2012 flash animation on the internet, all the fish are exactly the same. And like, you know, some fish are swimming one way and then the blue Christian fish, the good ones that go up to heaven in the barrel, they swim the other way. And there's just a bunch of scenes of that over some inappropriate weird song. Sarah: [7:51] I don't get it. Just kidding. I get it. Tara: [7:54] Considering this is the greatest story ever hulaed, as Troy McClure told us once, I mean, it really does take its time with all of the beats. And I guess if you're trying to stretch out the story of the New Testament to multiple seasons for maximum ka-ching, you have to do that. But that doesn't mean I have to watch. And if you're, I'm also going to say, if you're going to include dialogue like, I know I said I got this, or forgive me for not jumping out of my sandals, like it either has to all be like that or none be like that. Sarah: [8:24] Yes. Like, good job. Or someone addressing his fellow apostles as. Dave: [8:31] Guys, no cap. I don't even know. Actually, I don't even know what that means. I'll be honest with you. I don't know what no cap means. Tara: [8:39] No kidding. Sarah: [8:39] They're raising up the baptizer. I don't know what raising up even means. Dave: [8:44] Is that really what it means? Tara: [8:45] Yes. Dave: [8:46] Okay. Tara: [8:46] Yes. Sarah: [8:47] The kids were wrong. Tara: [8:47] Cap is lie. No cap is telling the truth. Dave: [8:50] The part of it that stuck out to me the most was actually the scene where we meet Quintus It's Dominus, the Billy Zane looking guy who is the regional governor or something like that. The Roman. Tara: [9:03] He's the assistant to the regional governor. Dave: [9:05] Has a little speech about how he loves the fruit here. Like, he's sort of like trying to be the bondiest villain that this show can afford, kind of. Like, is that sort of like, oh, now I'm going to talk about this thing I like and then blah, blah, blah. Then he calls in the tax collector to tell him he's got to go snooping on Simon. But that guy is right out of Covington community theater. You lose a lot. I know it's a trope, but you have to have the Romans played by English people. It loses so much when it's just some American dude. It's got to be some English dude because you know that American dude, as soon as they cut, that guy's putting on his Oakleys and his hat and he's going down to Dutch Brothers to get himself a sugary coffee. And it shows on screen. Tara: [9:50] Yeah, he's like, I mean, speaking of tropes, he's like, when you're watching a Kung Fu movie and suddenly the white villain shows up. That's what this guy is. Sarah: [9:59] I am in need of your machine. Dave: [10:05] Yeah, no, it was pretty bad. And yes, it was drawn out. But who is further away from the target audience for this than I, I ask you. Not many, but I was curious about the show. So I'm glad it did get forced in because that was the only way I was probably going to watch it. Sarah: [10:24] Remember when they used to show fishing on TV, like sport fishing? Tara: [10:28] Oh, like fishing shows? Yeah. Sarah: [10:30] Yeah. What would you rather watch, that or The Chosen? Tara: [10:34] Good question. Sarah: [10:35] Because this was like some real-time fishing. I don't mind fishing, but also bring a fucking book. Tara: [10:42] Yeah. Dave: [10:43] Bring a fucking editor. Tara: [10:45] Yeah. I mean, at least a fishing show is only a half hour. This was an hour. I mean, I didn't look to see if it was a full hour or commercials in hour, but it felt long. Sarah: [10:56] Whichever one it was. It felt like the full 60, I'll tell you that. Dave: [10:59] It fit 50 minutes of no fishing in it, so I'm going to guess it was probably an hour. Getting back to Sarah's question, what if we had fishing with John and it was with Jesus? Instead of Willem Dafoe. Sarah: [11:12] But why not John the Baptiste? Tara: [11:16] Yeah, I would watch Fishing with John with that Jesus. He was at least like kind of charismatic. Sarah: [11:22] And then also you could make it an animated show. And then like South Park, he just gets beheaded at the end of every episode. Spoiler. I guess. No? No other Baptists of the group are right. Dave: [11:35] I thought you were talking about Tara's show, which we'll discover in a bit, because we're going there right now. Tara: [11:40] Yes. From the sacred to the profane, we are talking about The Young Ones, Season 2, Episode 1, Bambi. This was submitted by Mike, who writes, I think The Young Ones is a fun throwback, but falls into the same might-not-age-well space that might keep the show outside of canon contention. Mike, good instinct. This episode is arguably, he writes, the best of the series and is still referenced on various UK quiz shows, possibly because the focus of the plot is the gang appearing on University Challenge. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and several instances of It's Baby. Tara: [12:14] In brackets, UK national treasure. We'll get there eventually. And can confirm on IMDb, this is rated 9.2. So it is the top rated episode of all 12 that exist because, you know, British sitcom. Yeah. The Young Runs is a show about four students of scumbag college sharing university housing and getting into surreal adventures. There's Vivian, Adrian Edmondson, a punk, Rick, Rick Mayall, a poet and low-information pinko, hippie Neil, Nigel Planer, and businessy hustler Mike, Christopher Ryan. In this episode, Neil races home with huge news for his housemates but soon gets sidetracked by a discussion about their failure to have done laundry any time in the past three years then we cut away to the victorian era dr carlisle robbie coltrane carefully placing his eclair on the edge of a box before dr not the nine o'clock news tony robinson aka baldrick from blackadder enters clip one prepare yourself sir. Tara: [13:15] I have a patient outside whose deformities are. Tara: [13:30] Human. He is a band. Quoxin, a live elephant. It's an elephant, Doctor. You unfeeling bastard, I mean, I'd love to know the story of how they got a live elephant on a BBC soundstage. But anyway, moving on. Tara: [13:57] Back to the guys who are finally getting ready to go to the laundromat, or as it's known in the UK, the laundrette. Briefly dressed up as each other. At the laundrette, the machines revolt. At the guys' disgusting laundry, some of which is, we hear later, held together by its stains. And when they end up back home, clip two. Let's never wash our clothes again. What do you mean, again? Tara: [15:20] So that is actually Motorhead playing in their living room while we watch a montage of them racing to the train station, getting into various train station hijinks. And when I watched this in high school, that might have been my first time hearing Motorhead. I still don't know any of their other songs. Dave: [15:38] They have no other songs. It's just that. Yeah. Tara: [15:41] On the train, we hear that their opponents are going to be the team from Footlights to College Oxbridge. And for those who, unlike me, didn't go through a British comedy phase in their early life, Footlights is a legendary sketch troupe at Cambridge, and all four members of this team, who we're about to see, were in it together in 1981. Alumni from other years include Douglas Adams, Graham Chapman, John Cleese, Olivia Colman, Russell Davies, Julian Fellows, David Frost, Mel Gidroich, Jermaine Greer, Tom Hollander, Alex Horn, Eric Idle, Miriam Margulies, David Mitchell, John Oliver, Sue Perkins, Solomon Rushdie, Will Sharp, and Dan Stevens, among many others. Dave: [16:19] He's funny. Tara: [16:21] So after Viv sticks his head out of the train window against the rules, it gets knocked off. He stops the train. And while his body is wandering around looking for it, the conductor, Alexei Sale, gives us a little more color on the guy's posh opponents. Clip three. I never really wanted to be a train driver, you know. I mean, they told me when I left. Tara: [17:15] Door. Go on, give her another slam, Sir Michael. Ow, ow, ow, ow. I mean, the KGB thing is a joke, but as I keep saying, every British person is a spy. And then we see the Footlights team for the first time. Kendall Mintcake is played by future Blackadder writer Ben Elton. Miss Money Sterling is played by Emma Thompson. Lord Snot is played by Stephen Fry. And Lord Monty is played by Hugh Laurie. Clip four. Tara: [18:23] Challenge. We just got time before my balls dropped. Tara: [18:28] Unfortunate language there. The Scumbag College team finally makes it to the taping two weeks late where they meet future Alias Smith & Jones stars Mel Smith as a security guard and Griff Reese Jones, another Footlight alumnus here playing University Challenge host Bambi. Neil hopes Mike's personal history with Bambi means that Bambi will let them win, but of course not. The posh kids win. They always do. Time to play the game. Clip five. So you're starting for ten, no confirmed. Tara: [18:57] Born in 1311. Tara: [20:00] Have to wee on Lord Snot's home. Eventually, Vivian gets bored and kicks Kendall mint cake through the floor of his booth. Then all the questions start being about trivia from Vivian's Daily Mirror book of facts that they were talking about on the train. Rick admits he tampered with the questions. Finally, the eclair falls off Dr. Carlisle's box and onto the scumbagged college team. And that's basically how the episode ends. So let's discuss. I was about four seconds into the opening credits before having the thought, well, now Sarah and I are in a fight. It's kind of incredible how quickly this thing is not for you, but what were your thoughts? Sarah: [20:40] Yeah, this is really not for me like on almost any level. It's sort of once they get into the university challenge and they're sort of the more throwaway lines like this is not exactly what I have on the card, but I know your father. And then they get 10 points like then it's been modulated a little. But I kept thinking about AbFab, which I also feel like I am, quote, supposed to care for and about and actively don't. And part of it is the sensory assault of the show. Like, it's at this pitch and volume that I don't care for, and it is not modulated really at all. Dave: [21:18] And the first three minutes with the telephone ringing nonstop. Sarah: [21:22] Yeah. Oh, my God. And then, I mean, it just looks like, and I understand that this is the idea, but it's, I mean, it's really a lot. And then given that it's like kind of unpleasant aurally, there's not enough jokes. And on top of that, that's one of these properties. And also, honestly, Python to a large degree, although it's not like, not that similar to this, except that it's British. I feel like I am supposed to like it and that expressing that I don't care for it is going to lead to a fucking thesis defense that I also do not want. I get it. I understand why this is important and why people like it. Tara: [22:06] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [22:07] But I don't want it. This was exhausting. I was just watching the clock the whole time. I'm so sorry to say, but it's not like you wouldn't have anticipated, like you said, several seconds in that it's like, wow, Buncee's under her desk right now. And I kind of was. It's just really not for me. Tara: [22:24] Right. It's not for me either. And if you're a Monty Python and Blackadder nerd, which I am, eventually someone's going to tell you, you have to watch this. I always felt like I should have liked it more than I did. I owned the VHS set of it, and I think I watched it once. And Dave, I have to think you had the same journey in your youth with this show. Dave: [22:44] This is the first time I've seen this, actually. Tara: [22:45] Really? Yeah. Oh, wow. I'm surprised. Dave: [22:47] Just passed me by. So I think this show is probably the poster child for if you weren't indoctrinated at the time when you were a certain age, there is absolutely no way you're going to hook into this. Sarah: [22:58] Yeah. Dave: [22:58] There was a couple moments that I thought were clever and funny, and I thought there was something there, if it was more of that, then I would have enjoyed it. And most of it has to do with this weird turtles all the way down setup they have with the Robbie Coltrane. Was it Robbie Coltrane? Tara: [23:13] Yeah. Dave: [23:14] Robbie Coltrane as the scientist in the universe above the Young One's universe. Tara: [23:18] Yes. Dave: [23:19] Like there is the microscope reveal where there is a bird's eye view of the gang in their flat, and it sort of like zooms in really quick. And then like you discover that Robbie Coltrane is looking at them through a microscope on his slide and there's that whole thing with the donut that was funny the elephant reveal was stupid and funny i thought the fact that there is a sock that is so dirty that it is now sentient was funny but then it goes on too long yeah the giant donut bit at the end was also again very funny it was a nice bookend to things those moments i thought were very monty python-esque and it would have fit perfectly fine in any monty python skit the rest of it where everybody is shouting and very high school-esque changes of pace, just like nonsense here and there. Some of it worked. Most of it didn't. But again, if I was 10 to 14 or so and I was watching this, like I probably still would watch it now and think it was kind of funny, but not having that experience. And I don't want to put anybody on blast, but I was talking to somebody who was going to pitch this as a canon. And then I discovered that it was in the fourth inning thing. So I said, don't do it. And second of all, having watched it, please don't do it because I don't want to hurt your feelings. But you watched this when you were a kid, didn't you? And he's like, yes, well, that's why you still have this connection to it. And I think Monty Python is similar. I think Monty Python is a better put together product. Dave: [24:43] I think that is a similar thing. If you didn't experience it when your brain was smoother, then there is something that doesn't work for you now. Tara: [24:52] Yeah. Dave: [24:52] And this is like that times a million. Tara: [24:55] Yeah. And I mean, before we move on to I agree with Sarah that like that it is so it's so screamy. I think there were jokes I missed and like watching it early in the early 90s when there weren't subtitles either. Like there's it's it's like actually hard to understand, not just because of the accents, but just because of the pitch of it. And, you know, I can tell why this show is regarded as an error to Monty Python. But I feel like I would rather watch these actors doing like a more Monty Python sketch comedy show. Like if this had been a three minute sketch about these idiot characters trying to do their gross laundry and then switch to something completely different, it would have been I'd be with it more. Dave: [25:34] There's not a lot of connective tissue between the beats of this episode. Like there is the discussion at the house to start things off. There is the laundry thing. There is the game show thing. There's this weird alternate universe thing. Like there's not a lot of like substantial connective tissue between all those things. So it almost is a sketch. Tara: [25:53] No, but the characters are what links it all together. And the characters are like the most grating part. Like it's like punk disgusting monkeys in a bad way. Sarah: [26:04] Right. Well, and it's the same as, I mean, not Monty Python, because that's very much more like sketch and more discreet ETE. But this is the same with AbFab. This is the issue that you sort of look at whoever is trying to convince you that this is a brilliant show. And you're like, but all these people are assholes. And like, well, that's the point. And it's like, well, I understand that that's the point. But if you don't have better joke density and better aural terrain, that is not going to give my eyelid a twitch. Then I'm not motivated to spend time with them. Like I get that that's the big idea. I just don't want to hang out with it anymore. Right. Dave: [26:43] So here's a comparison from Monty Python in this show. Monty Python has this skit called Salad Days, which is just like Sunday in the park setting. And then just everybody dies in weird ways. Like there's a tennis racket that goes into somebody's chest and blood splurting out of everybody. Tara: [26:58] Yes, because it's Sam Peckinpah's Salad Days. Dave: [27:00] That's right. And then in this one, there is a scene where the punk guy, what's his name again? Tara: [27:05] Vivian. Dave: [27:06] Vivian is in a train and he is in between the trains and there's a sign near the window that says, don't stick your head out the window. So he sticks his head out the window and he gets decapitated and then he's running around outside the track trying to guide his body to his head and the body's fed up with it and it kicks the head and stuff like that so like those two things are kind of the same joke it's just like crazy violent thing for something that's supposed to be a comedy show and one of it nails it and it's just like one idea and it's in and out and but for some reason the the head coming off and him kicking it not once not twice but like three times that's what i say when it feels like a high school production of a comedy show. Like you tell the joke and then you get out. It did it once, did it twice. It's like the kid at a party with a whole bunch of grownups. He's about to go to bed, but he tells a funny joke and all the adults laugh. And he tells the same joke again. And he gets half the laughs and he gets a quarter laugh. And this half-life of the joke keeps on going and going. And then the kid is shown upstairs to his bed. I feel like that's the show. Like the show needed to go to bed. Tara: [28:05] Yeah. Should we talk about the future superstars on the Footlights team? Dave: [28:08] Yeah, that was surprising. Who was the guy that I didn't recognize? Tara: [28:12] That's Ben Elton. He's the co-creator of Black Adam. Dave: [28:15] Yeah, I know who he is. I just didn't know his face. Tara: [28:16] Yeah. Dave: [28:17] Yeah, Emma Thompson and Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie. Were Laurie and Fry, is this pre- Yes. Tara: [28:24] This is 1984. Dave: [28:25] Okay. Tara: [28:26] Yeah. Dave: [28:26] What's that show called? Tara: [28:27] A Bit of Fry and Laurie. Dave: [28:28] Fry and Laurie, yeah. Yes, there's a lot of talent there. I mean, it was okay. It was an okay joke, but. Tara: [28:34] Yeah, I wish we saw Emma Thompson in this goof mode more. Like, she's good at it. But it is also clear there's one of these four people who's not going to have a career as an acclaimed performer. It's been held. And bless his heart, he tried. Sarah: [28:49] Yeah, Reese Jones is brilliant as Bambi. And it was wild to see basically Pastor Tim's groovy hair on this guy. But yeah, his delivery was perfect. This was just more of a, I don't know, felt like it came from life, classist comment versus just a bunch of people in a grimy studio screaming at a sock that has dental floss tied to it. It was really a lot. Tara: [29:16] Yeah. This did not make me want to revisit the young one. Dave: [29:19] If this is the best one, I think I'm good. Tara: [29:22] Yep. Let the wide stick give you the edge. Dave: [29:25] Speed stick, super dry, antiperspirant. The Yaguans. By the way, Sarah, way to fuck it up and not pick a bi-menin show. Dave: [29:35] All right. Third and final foresending is Sarah's. Sarah: [29:39] Our last foresending comes from Diatho. Diatho submitted this one in November of 2023. It is the premiere episode of Hustle. The con is on. I did a little bit of forensic digging in the EHC archives to try to pin down what might have prompted this submission back in November. But I think it's probably as simple as Buncee likes a con story and doesn't want to watch Leverage famous original anymore because Hutton is allegedly rapey. Dave: [30:08] And Diatho is a big Blue Sky show fan. And this is a gray Blue Sky show, if I make a point of the term. Sarah: [30:14] There is something in my notes about that later that it's like, what do you call a British blue sky show? Grey sky? Grey with an E? Dave: [30:21] Sure, sure. Sarah: [30:22] All right. We'll get there. This is before we were tracking why people thought we should watch these four sinnings. So, Diatho, let us know if our theories about this are correct. Yeah, some Redditor described Hustle as, quote, the older, more street-level British version of Leverage. It's really the other way around because Hustle debuted in 2004, Leverage in 2008. but they really are pretty much exactly the same show. The Blue Sky version of Ocean's Eleven, safe for TV, right down to the jazzy soundtracks, the Saul Bassi credit sequences. Leverage has one European on a team of Americans. Hustles is the mirror of that, but the teams basically look and feel the same. The rationale that they share for running cons is pretty similar. It's usually a Robin Hood slash vengeance job. So it really is very close to Leverage to the point where I thought that we had already watched Hustle's pilot for some other episode and really spent a lot of time in the search function, just making sure that I wasn't duplicating something that we already did. Tara: [31:25] I Googled to make sure Leverage was a remake of Hustle, and officially it's not, but I'm going to say unofficially it super is. Sarah: [31:33] Yeah. Tara: [31:34] Like ER in the pit. It's not Hustle, but it's not not Hustle over on Leverage. Sarah: [31:38] Yep, definitely not, and definitely not not. For that reason, I'm not really doing that much of a plot summary, because here is another con property that the Hustle pilot very consciously draws upon, and that is The Sting, which I have seen conservatively 70 times. How conscious are they about this? Clip one. I want to learn. I really want to learn. I'll just come inside, have a little chat. It's nice. Dave: [32:26] I have a question about the guy that we hear talking there. Is he a Malcolm McDowell spawn? Tara: [32:34] No, not officially. Dave: [32:35] Because damn, he looks like him. Tara: [32:37] He really does. Dave: [32:37] Oh, okay. He looks like Malcolm McDowell and Sting had a baby. Sarah: [32:41] Yes, he does. That's Mark Warren, a.k.a. Either Nick, Kalinda's shiniest husband on The Good Wife, or Albert Hysterical Blindness Blythe from Band of Brothers, if you like me already watching that. Dave: [32:53] Right. Sarah: [32:54] His character's name here is Danny Blue, because of course it is. He's trying to get in with Adrian Lester's Mickey Bricks, which is like, I mean, it's so corny, but also perfect and really satisfying to say. Dave: [33:07] It is good. Sarah: [33:08] Mickey Bricks is the Newman to Danny's Redford in the sting set up to the point where when Danny is finally let in sort of partway on the long con, his name within the con is Mr. Redford. Get it? Sarah: [33:23] There are a couple of differences in how the con plays out from episode to movie here in the episode it's one of the cops who's in on the final blow off so to speak the part of the con where the cons ensure that the mark is too embarrassed to report anyone else involved in the sting it's redford's character but hustle is definitely borrowing from the best at least and overall i I liked it. I didn't love it. I would definitely put this on as comfort TV or to do my nails by. It's processy. It explains via an obsessed detective sergeant how everything from an office to a classy vehicle can be, quote, borrowed for set design for a big store con. Some things, on the other hand, it lets you look up on your own, like what the badger con is. did either of you know what that is. Basically, it's a variation on a honey trap. Someone is lured into some behavior that is extortable and then extorted. I kept seeing that the name derives from the con being invented in Wisconsin, but I feel like it was invented at the dawn of fucking time when humans marched out of the swamp. So that's probably bullshit. And this is why you can't search for anything on the internet anymore. We used to be a proper country. Sarah: [34:42] Hustle can sometimes try too hard with stylish shot compositions, like this scene, which super slow-mo's The Mark, pouring coffee, so that the credits cast, and yes, that is Robert Vaughn you are about to hear, can all gather around a desk and explain how confidence games can work. Clip 2. Sarah: [35:01] You see, the first rule of the con... Is you can't cheat an. Sarah: [35:57] Laws were made to be broken. Sarah: [36:02] They cast the British version of Kevin Tye in this role so that you would hate him. And then the first thing they show him doing is taking back a tip someone else left. So you're like, I don't care if this guy dies, do whatever you want. Smart. It's smart about its build, like leverage, but also like leverage, not perfect. It's a little too pleased with its inside baseball knowledge at times. Like leverage, it doesn't have that good of a sense of humor. Like leverage, it is constrained by a low to medium-sized budget that, especially when it comes to credible wardrobe, is not what Ocean's Eleven's basher would call for proper criminals. And like leverage when it can't say the f-word and a character has to sneer at someone to quote go screw yourself really feel how much shows like this both have to be and can't afford to be on prestige networks and mark warren is just always annoying i tried with van der valk or whatever you know cozy british mystery he's in on pbs there's just no getting around it he just has resting private dick face and it is what it is. But this is good enough. This is good enough. Perfectly cromulent, as we like to say. What did you guys think? As these sort of gray sky properties go, Mm-hmm. Would you put this in the rotation to like nap by Dave? Dave: [37:29] Okay, so I'm not a big blue slash gray skies TV show watcher. So I don't know if I've actually watched another gray skies show, like something from Britain. But this shares enough DNA with every blue sky show that I've encountered with that I feel like I can judge it. Like one of the other things that makes it a blue sky show slash gray skies show is like the high aspirations, low results stuff of like he's in a bar. But the bar looks like it was filmed in like the BBC basement cafeteria for employees. Like it's got that stuff that goes along with every Blue Sky show. Sarah: [38:03] Super dated backlit bottles. Dave: [38:05] Why do you keep on coming back to this place? It looks abysmal. Lots of things like that. But like the show is very much of its time. Like there is something about a show in the aughts that feels like it is from the aughts beyond its Blue Sky-ness. Like everything about it is throwaway. You know, like, as we know with a Blue Skies show, the stakes are never, like, really super high. We're not dealing with, like, a life and death feeling scenario. And this is certainly that. It is, like, the show is setting up this harmless con, and the people that are being conned are rich dicks. So that's okay. So all of that seems familiar. And the fact that it's in Britain, like, there's not enough, like, British stuff here to me really make me feel like it is something exotic. Like you know sometimes you're like you're on vacation and you have a coffee and the coffee seems like this magical thing because it's in another land even though it's fucking coffee like sometimes you get that feeling like i'm watching a mystery but the mystery is set in britain and everybody's talking posh like this show is obviously better than an american show that deals with the same things because fucking listen to these people listen to their voices they're better than us i don't get that here this feels like a take on a quintessentially american formula. Tara: [39:24] Mm-hmm. Dave: [39:25] Even like the credits with the Saul Bass, super shitty looking Saul Bass credits. Sarah: [39:31] Yeah. Saul ass. Dave: [39:32] Saul ass. Thank you. Sarah: [39:34] Just got there. Dave: [39:35] You know that, okay, this is the lower tier of the BBC imports that we get here. Tara: [39:41] Yes. Dave: [39:42] This feels like if you're absolutely out of Blue Sky shows and you really just want to watch something like that, then absolutely. Hustle is there for you. And it is fine. It is fun. It's British. but it has the trapping of every other blue sky show like this from the day where it seems very dated. It seems very inconsequential. I kind of wish there was like a mix of a genre where you have a blue sky show married with something like AKB or Peaky Blinders where people can just like swear and be nasty, but also have it be low stakes and airy. That's a genre I'd like to see more of. And I kind of wish that this show was allowed to do that because it would have been a much better watch. Sarah: [40:26] Yeah, like killing Eve, but just have a beconning Eve. You have slightly better actors. You have slightly better lighting. Tara: [40:33] Yeah. Sarah: [40:33] What strikes me also about your point about these Aussie shows that have a certain look and that look is cheap is that I feel like not every production designer and production team had quite figured out by 2004. How to do more with less in HD. So there are a lot of button-down shirts on ladies that are pointless, that it's like, I can see every scallop on your brassiere, which is fine, but you're going to need better fabric and better lighting and better makeup for this. Dave: [41:09] So this show comes in very early in the blue slash gray skies genre. And one of the things they do not nail is the lighting. Because this looks like a very British, dull, cloudy day kind of show. Whereas the American ones have a certain look to them. But even in the indoor shots, I feel like they only brought half their lighting equipment. It is very poorly lit, non-dynamic lighting that really plays into the cheapness that everything looks like. So like you wish they had more in the production that made it a little more fun to look at. Tara: [41:42] Yeah, the lighting is so bad that there were shots where until they pull back and show the full buildings, I was like, are we in Toronto? Like it seemed like they had darkened it to make it look like England when it wasn't. It is, but that's what it looks like. Dave: [41:56] But also they are filming in like, I don't know, London, but they're filming in newer places like Canary's Wharf-esque places rather than London with the history buildings and stuff. Like, they're very much, it could have been downtown Toronto. You could have been at the Toronto Dominique building instead of, in front of the Red Herring, which is the building we see at the start. Tara: [42:15] Yep. Dave: [42:15] Which, what the fuck? Tara: [42:16] I know. Dave: [42:17] That's the thing you should have taken off when you looked in the mirror for the start of your show. Sarah: [42:21] Yeah, probably. Tara: [42:22] The other thing that makes it feel of its time is the incredibly, I mean, one way they tell you how to feel is by having the guy, the mark, immediately take a tip off the table, which, like, the scumbag behavior, fuck him forever, send him straight to hell. with all the bad fish. Dave: [42:37] Right. Tara: [42:37] But also, the other way they tell you how to feel about everything going on and that this is like light and bouncy and fun is the incredibly obtrusive, nonstop, jazzy score. Like the music does not stop to the point where like, I mean, the episode is almost over before we get a scene, you know, an interrogation room scene, I think, where it finally like shuts the fuck up. But it's like, let me develop my own emotional reality. to this, because it's like... Sarah: [43:07] Ocean's 12 was like that. Like, Ocean's 11, it wasn't so bad. But like that scene where Livingston Dell is like lost in the tech warren and has sweated off his little map that he drew on his hand. And it's like, boodle-oo-loo, wank, wank. Tara: [43:21] Yes. Sarah: [43:22] I mean, this is like that constantly. But even if someone's in an interrogation room, it's like, boodle-oo-loo, like, okay, with the infernal tootling. Please, just let any moment not have that. And it's just not possible. It's like they looped it Wile E. Coyote cactus style, basically. Dave: [43:39] As you move on in history and you do everything faster and more intense, to quote George Lucas, like the Leverage episode that we watched for the Canon, or maybe it was just a fourth thing, I forget. Sarah: [43:50] DB Cooper-sode. Tara: [43:51] Yeah. Dave: [43:51] Yeah, like that had a better cadence to it. Like that seemed zippier in the Ocean's Eleven sort of format. This one was trying to do it, but was still too relaxed to really get that energy that both of those products tapped into. So that was a big difference here. Like you see the bones of a better show here. You see the DNA they're working with is good, but they need a little more time to evolve and sort of get there where they are making quicker edits. They are doing scenes faster and therefore have to produce more scenes to fill their hour. And I just got to get on my system because I said leverage too much. Leverage from a man-animal. Yes. Continue. Tara: [44:31] The one thing that I will give this to make me possibly want to keep watching it the most is when we, as part of the final sort of all of the pieces of the con revealed montage, we see where the guy who's been posing as the cop, like how they pulled that part off. And it's that they kidnapped a real cop. And he's still there. And they have him cuffed to a bed with like hamster hoses going toward his mouth. He's still like, how long is it? It's been days at least. Dave: [45:03] Yeah, when the series ends, it's like the end of Aeroplane where they check back on the guy who's trying to get the taxi, except it's that guy and he's like got a beer that goes down to his ass. Tara: [45:14] He's a skeleton. Dave: [45:15] And he's like 10 years later. Tara: [45:15] Yes. Dave: [45:16] And he's still sipping on the sugar water. Sarah: [45:17] Totally. Tara: [45:17] I'm just saying like that, that was like, oh, shit, that's like meaner than I thought this was going to go. It's like, okay, there's, there's more edge to this possibly than I would have initially anticipated. And, you know, ACAB, but still. Sarah: [45:33] Yeah i think that this felt a little logie at times because this was probably a proof of concept that got like blown out a little bit because it is the pilot so i would pick it back up probably a few episodes in just to make sure that they're not getting too like oh you know mickey bricks's mysterious wife i don't care i don't care yeah. Tara: [45:54] Well they made. Sarah: [45:55] Eight seasons. Tara: [45:55] Of this thing so you certainly can dip back in. Sarah: [45:59] Yeah and then occasionally like people would leave to do movies and they would swap in new people like again i think that this is probably cromulent throughout as long as you don't expect too much but especially given where it is in the timeline of these shows pretty impressive yeah. Dave: [46:22] Tara Arianna, wig cop. Can we talk about the lead cop's hair? The female detective? Sarah: [46:31] Oh, yeah. Tara: [46:32] With the bangs? I mean, tragically. Dave: [46:34] You know that meme with the cat with the watermelon helmet? Tara: [46:37] Uh-huh. Dave: [46:38] It's that. Tara: [46:38] It is. Dave: [46:39] It's hair. Tara: [46:40] Yeah. Dave: [46:41] It's so bad. Was that real or was that a wig? Sarah: [46:43] And she looked just like Pat Benatar. It was really a lot of information. Tara: [46:48] She does. Sarah: [46:49] Most of it wasn't good. Dave: [46:49] Real or wig? Tara: [46:50] That's real hair. We're talking about D.S. Terry Hodges. Like if that it's so it's so flat and thin, like you couldn't sell a wig like that. It's I mean, no offense to this lady. I'm sure she's a nice person. But that was she would probably be the first to say that was a mistake. God knows Mariska Hargitay owns up to her past hair mistakes on SVU. And this is in that category. It's it's so what it also kind of looks like. I mean, the cat helmet is one, but when you see the like a medieval soldier helmet with like the chains that come down the sides, that's what it looks like to me. Dave: [47:26] If it was missing half the chains, that was well. Tara: [47:28] Yes, it was bad. Dave: [47:32] And that is it for another episode of Extra Hot Great. We discuss three of your four sitting cool choices, the chosen, the young ones, and hustle. It's hustle If you'd like to force us to watch something Get in on The Forest Sitting Pool A monthly event on our club exclusive episodes Of Extra Extra Hot Great Link in the show notes Remember, We're listening I am David T. Cole And on behalf of Tara Ariano Don't. Tara: [48:07] Look at me, I'm irrelevant And Sarah D. Dave: [48:09] Bunting. Sarah: [48:10] I've got a Porsche Thanks. Dave: [48:13] For listening We'll see you next time, right here on Extra Hot Green. Tara: [48:37] Praise him i hear you okay okay, Ha ha ha.