With Saturday Night Live about to celebrate the 50th anniversary of its series premiere, Peacock has assembled four documentary specials about how the show is made. Do any of them really advance our knowledge about this comedy institution? Omar Gallaga returns to talk about it. Around The Dial takes us through Severance, A.P. Bio, Playing For Peanuts, and Star Wars: Skeleton Crew. Omar pitches the Shōgun episode “Crimson Sky” for induction into The Canon. Then, after naming the week’s Winner and Loser, it’s on to a Game Time about who stayed standing from series premiere to finale. Finish that bowl of Colon Blow and join us!

ehg 546
Published on
Jan 22, 2025 Does SNL50: Beyond Saturday Night Actually Go Far Enough?
Not live, from Charlotte, it’s Omar Gallaga, to talk about Peacock’s new SNL doc series!
Episode Rundown
Lead Topic
Around The Dial
The Canon
Winner & Loser
Game Time
Other Tags
Episode Notes
Episode Tags
Episode Transcript
Episode Transcription
Dave:
[0:11] This is the Extra Hot Great Podcast, episode 546 for the week of January 20th, 2025. I am glazed donut David T. Cole, and I'm here with penultimate sketch Sarah D. Bunting.
Sarah:
[0:29] I hope you're asleep by now.
Dave:
[0:31] Seth's 'Aunt', Aunt Linda Tara Ariano.
Tara:
[0:34] What?
Dave:
[0:35] And exhausted sketch writer Omar Gallaga.
Guest:
[0:37] I'm so tired. Did my duck boat sketch make it?
Tara:
[0:45] Welcome to Extra Hot. Great for another week. He's a journalist and critic and the SNL recapper for the LA Times. You've heard him with us many times before. It's Omar Gallaga.
Dave:
[0:57] Hi.
Sarah:
[0:58] Omar. Omar.
Dave:
[1:00] He's back.
Guest:
[1:01] Hi.
Tara:
[1:03] Because of that last credit we asked omar to join us to talk about snl 50 beyond saturday night unless you are very determinedly off the grid you already know what saturday night live is it is currently in the middle of its 50th season with its actual anniversary episode nearly upon us so peacock has enlisted four filmmakers to make short documentaries about the show to mark the occasion and assembled them under the umbrella snl 50 beyond saturday night all four dropped last week. We might talk about stories from any of them. Let's do the Chen check-in. Omar, should our listeners watch this show?
Guest:
[1:39] Qualified, yeah.
Tara:
[1:40] Sarah?
Sarah:
[1:41] Same. Qualified, yeah. And I suspect the qualifications are the same, but we'll find out.
Tara:
[1:46] Dave?
Dave:
[1:47] It's not a four-part documentary. It's four mini-documentaries, so I will have individual recommendations for what you should watch and what you shouldn't. So overall, sure, but it's a mixed back.
Tara:
[1:57] It will do that thing where, you know, when you see clips of SNL, it tricks you into thinking SNL is really good. It's not because they, you know, obviously can cherry pick it. I wasn't mad I watched it, but it definitely has problems. Let's get into it. In the first episode, Amy Puller says everyone who gets into the show starts watching when they're 13 or 14 and whoever is in the cast then is who they imprint on. I agree. I think that's conventional wisdom about the show. I also think we're all around the same age. So when you think of watching SNL and whatever the golden years were for you who is the cast member that you think of omar.
Guest:
[2:31] I started in with that probably like you all did with dana carvey with uh john lovitz kind of that group yeah that that was sort of where i came into it and and but then much later you know i went back and read the book the tom shell book and the oral histories and caught up on some of the older episodes but really uh my entree to it was sort of the dana carvey years.
Tara:
[2:49] I'm making a bet with myself about Sarah's answer. Go ahead, Sarah. What's yours?
Sarah:
[2:53] Dennis Miller, probably.
Tara:
[2:55] Yep, I win.
Sarah:
[2:56] I had a crush on him. Not proud of it. Did not endure. But yeah, he was definitely like, we would stay up until update. He would do his pen swoopy thing, and then I would go to bed, usually.
Tara:
[3:09] Dave, who's your guy or lady?
Dave:
[3:11] Phil Hartman.
Tara:
[3:12] I mean, my taste currently, I would say Phil Hartman. At the time, I would have probably said Mike Myers. And he was also very versatile.
Dave:
[3:21] Lothar of the Hill people is still one of my favorite stupid things I've done on Saturday Night Live. In fact, my online gaming tag right now is Lothar of the Hill people.
Tara:
[3:30] So, Omar, you steepen this show every week, yet we made you do even more homework about it. Are we in a fight or did this meaningfully deepen your relationship and knowledge with the show?
Guest:
[3:42] No, I enjoyed it. I liked it. I liked all four episodes. I mean, some are much better than others. I still don't think we need a almost an hour documentary on just the cowbell sketch. Although even that one, I thought, no, but even that had, you know, fun moments in it and unexpected things, you know, like the whole fight between the oyster cult producers. Like I thought that was great. I think it's definitely essential viewing if you're an SNL nerd like we are. I think even for casual fans of the show, people who kind of just dip in and out of SNL, there's I think there's a lot there that you'll learn or that you probably didn't know about. I like the way they were put together for the most part. They're baggy. They're a little bit long. None of them needed to be more than an hour long. But overall, I'm glad that I watched them. I thought they were pretty well done.
Tara:
[4:23] Sarah, you said it's a yes with reservations. What were your reservations?
Sarah:
[4:27] Like Omar said, each episode was a little long. I also, taking on board Dave's note, which I think is correct, that it's just four documentaries about the show and not necessarily a docu-series about the show. I still felt like the films were ordered weirdly. Like, why is the weird year the last one? I kept being like, are there going to be more of these? Because why would you end with that famously kind of abortive plan to reboot it? And then you're not really giving any context about what led to that year. And it's the year that Lorne Michaels returned after Ebersole had been running it. And this is a big and very juicy part of the oral history, which I think we have all read. And when it came out with new material, I read it again because I have a very full life and I'm super cool. But I just don't think that if you really imprinted on that book also as a font of information and received wisdom about the show, I think that Amy Poehler may have made that comment about the cast imprinting in that as well. It's a good line and she should definitely recycle it at will. But if you read that book and you follow the show, this is not a great use of four hours of your time. But I also, like, I wasn't in a fight with it. It's fine. It's just not essential if you already read the book.
Dave:
[5:55] But also, it is a first-party documentary, so... Watcher beware.
Tara:
[6:00] Yes.
Dave:
[6:01] The tough time bits of any particular episode were kind of quickly out the door. Damon Wayans getting fired bit was very cursory look at what was going on. So those are the things you always get when the people that the documentary is about are also providing the money for you to make the documentary. So yeah, you have to come in knowing that part of it. So the part of it for me was like, is this entertaining on its own? because I'm not really learning much that either I didn't know before or I feel I could get better somewhere else, like an unauthorized look at it through printed media or something like that. So there's four episodes. The first one's about the audition process and getting on the show. The second one is about the writers who are the unsung heroes of the show and what they go through. The third one's all about the cowbell sketch. And the fourth one is about this, the 11th season where Lorne Michael comes back and basically resets the whole cast and it's all terrible. And I enjoyed the first one quite a bit because I thought it never stopped moving. It was very quick. And it was like, as soon as you're sort of getting, you know, your brain's like, am I getting tired of talking to this person? We're on to the next one. And, you know, a new little story, new little vignette. And I thought that was really good. And there was some funny stuff there. Let me play just one clip from the show. I thought it was the funniest part of the whole series because I haven't watched Our Aunt Live in years. And this is a new cast member, but she does a Christian Schall impression. Do you know who it is?
Tara:
[7:26] Heidi Gardner.
Dave:
[7:26] And it just fucking slayed me. Here it is.
Guest:
[7:29] This is Kristen Schaal delivering bad news.
Tara:
[7:33] Hey, mom. So dad's not going to make it. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's spread through his whole body. I mean, I'm not crying, I'm devastated.
Dave:
[7:53] It was really good. That was her audition take from her live audition. I thought the first one was good. I would have loved to see more actors from further back in time into the mix of that one. The second one I thought was pretty good, too, because a lot of the writers are like super dry and they like don't give a shit. So you got more of the energy I wanted more of throughout the whole series with the writers.
Tara:
[8:14] Yeah, that's the one where you see Larry David and Bob Odenkirk who have like nothing to lose. But being honest about their experience.
Dave:
[8:21] And Larry David, who's in it a lot, was like a writer for one season, apparently.
Tara:
[8:25] And not a good experience either. Sort of famously didn't get sketches on and like hated it.
Dave:
[8:30] And that one was pretty process-y because they go through the life of a sketch and how it is formed. And one of my favorite parts of that one is when it goes through Betsy the sensor, the network sensor. And she's just like, she has to. That's where Glazed Donut in my intro comes from. because she once marked glazed donut as two suggested, even though they were just referring to an actual glazed donut in the sketch. The third one is all about the cowbell sketch, which is like an all-timer sketch, but is like five minutes of content. And this particular episode really got in its own way. Like whoever was doing that one really thought like they needed to insert themselves into the process of telling the story about the cowbell sketch. And it was pretty embarrassing at times with like their little reenactments and their cute little, oh, here's the new Chiron because it was actually a woodblock and now it's the woodblock skit. And that was the worst one. Like it is the best, one of the best sketches, but it was the worst hour of this show.
Tara:
[9:27] Okay, but I mean, I'll say this. The series is not essential for sure. What makes it sort of fun is like, especially in the second episode, like you said, getting to see behind the scenes and like, you know, going to like the fabrication shop where they're making sets, going to the costume guy who's like, I spent three days making this thing for a sketch that got cut, which like, we'll come back to that. The waste on the show is insane.
Sarah:
[9:46] And all the heads that he keeps just in case.
Tara:
[9:49] Including unfrozen caveman lawyer. You never know. But like overall, this sort of could have been a podcast. Like some of the, you know, if you just. chose clips that weren't super physical this would have been a really interesting like podcast and so even though i don't think the more cowbell sketch as executed was good like opening with the like we're at a cowbell factory it's like oh my god jerk off motion to this whole thing like you really think you're doing something and it is so overstuffed like 49 minutes is insane it's obviously like we're not going to pay you unless it hits a certain number so they definitely padded it out. Like, I don't care what Josh Homs thinks about this. Sorry.
Tara:
[10:29] But because, as Dave said, this is on Peacock and it's like, you know, consider platform, they're not going to get into these controversial things about the show of which there are thousands at this point. So you might as well do the series if you're going to do something like this the way the More Cowbell sketch was like conceived. I mean, the More Cowbell episode was conceived, not how it was executed because otherwise it's like you're touching on Bo and Yang saying you know sometimes I have to tell my colleagues like that wasn't cool what you said and then we move on and it's fine or you know Denitra Vance saying like you know in the Francis Ford Coppola episode in the last the last one of these is like you know where are the black women writers like yeah where are the black women writers into the 20 teens like there are issues about this show I'm not even going to touch on Trump but I could like and that they're clearly not going to get dug into so if you're going to do a version of this i feel like that might have made more sense to me yeah.
Guest:
[11:25] The the damning thing from that episode i thought was that immediately after that season you know the entire cast they bring back after that you know it's all white.
Tara:
[11:33] I was.
Guest:
[11:34] Like well that's where that that's where things went after that.
Tara:
[11:36] Yeah there.
Guest:
[11:37] Was yeah and there was other the second episode which i did enjoy the writing the writer's episode i loved hearing from people like alan zweibel who if you're an snl nerd you're going to know that name right away but i also found it weird that Weekend Update was not even touched on in that episode. And that's a very writer-heavy segment every week. And then also they didn't touch on how they do the cold opens, where most of the political stuff goes. They didn't go into politics as kind of the challenges of writing topical political sketch comedy every week. That was not... addressed at all.
Dave:
[12:07] Oh, I'm sure that was on the verboten list for whoever is making this.
Tara:
[12:11] No doubt. But also the structure of that episode, it's like how an episode gets built from the writer's perspective from like the first Monday meeting to air. And the week that they were following them was the week that Ayo Adebery hosted last season. Kind of famously, the musical guest that week was Jennifer Lopez, about whom Ayo had talked some shit on a podcast before she agreed to do it reportedly jennifer lopez like made her apologize and she did and like none of that and there's.
Guest:
[12:45] Even the there's even the bit where they're like well is there anything we can't talk about with her and that that didn't come up you know like.
Tara:
[12:50] That would have been the moment to hear that yeah i mean let's get back to the waste too like how this the way they do the show means that full sets get built from scratch that might never get used. It's sort of impressive that Lorne Michaels still does everything the way he did in 1975. Sarah linked us to a profile of him in The New Yorker, where it's like he still makes them do revisions on paper. It's his call that they use cards and not a teleprompter. All of this stuff that just ruined my dream. And we've told this story before, but when Dave and I were working on the Disneyland site and Disney sent a storyboard artist to like come to the office and draw a picture of a web page mock-up instead of.
Dave:
[13:36] No, draw the picture of a web page that we have already completed to 100% conclusion, ready to go. The Disney people selling this to the exec said, I don't think they'll get a website. Can we draw storyboards of the website you've already done? And we'll show them that. and we had to pay for this guy to come in with the magic markers and do that.
Tara:
[13:54] Yeah. So, like, the part that they sort of glance at in the writing episode but don't really drill down on is, like, this is the stupidest way to make a show. They could possibly do it. Like, first of all, the fact that it's live, like, does not need to be live. And they talk about this in the fourth episode, too, where they're like, he doesn't take it, Lauren doesn't take advantage of the fact that it's live. Like he, you know, the reason Damon Wayans got fired partly is like he wanted to, but also that like he went off the plan. You don't, you don't ever do that. You like stick to the script and do it as you were told. And like when you hear writers, especially like Bob Odenkirk, who I mentioned, it talks about this in his memoir. When you have time to work on something, it turns out better. And the proof of this is when you look at all of the sketch shows that these people have gone on to do themselves, like the Ben Stiller show, Mr. Show, I Think You Should Leave, Jordan Peele, Failed Auditioner, Key and Peele, like all of this is very obvious to me.
Guest:
[14:54] In the first episode, they show some of the people who didn't make it on the show. Some surprising ones, some not surprising ones. But, you know, Jim Carrey, I think I knew that he had auditioned. I don't think I knew that Kevin Hart had. Jordan Peele, to me, is like made out the best out of all of them as far as like going on to reinvent sketch comedy on his own terms. Imagine if he had been on SNL, he would never have gotten to do as much as he got to do on Key and Peele. So like I felt like he dodged the bullet the most out of all of them.
Tara:
[15:21] Yeah, it's very true.
Sarah:
[15:22] Yeah, him and Glover, I would say.
Guest:
[15:24] Oh, Glover, yeah.
Sarah:
[15:24] I mean, it's interesting, too, because there's always this sense running through SNL properties that, like, let's say Lorne. Like, it is him. And it can't, it's not as easy as, like, plugging things in that he has done or that the show has been doing more or less, like, you know, interregnum aside, for half a century. I mean, the man was born in 1944.
Sarah:
[15:50] Like, this can't. continue indefinitely and you do wonder like it's sort of like looking at the cowbell sketch that's like well it's sort of as simple as you needed that christopher walk-in delivery but also there's this like magic to it and it is very tempting to sort of look at it and be like this can be replicated and explained when it can't but yeah that sort of like heritage media lorn system i just found myself thinking, can this show persist? Or is this a relic of post-Watergate America that maybe it is time, once Lorne goes through the veil, to leave it in the past? I don't know. It does raise some interesting questions about the format and his ways of doing it day-to-day, but it doesn't seem interested in answering those questions or even in looking directly at you know, an actuarial table. And I get it. Like, that's not what they're trying to do. But it was interesting in spite of itself in that regard.
Tara:
[16:55] Yeah. I mean, it does make you think like whenever and however it ends, no one is ever going to make a show like this again. Even if someone takes over for him and starts producing it, whoever it may be, like they're, you know, the network is going to start putting restrictions on whoever the next person is that is not as powerful as Lorne Michaels.
Sarah:
[17:15] Well, I just wanted to pull the panel and see, because I think what they will probably do is tap someone from the cast slash past writers' rooms to step in and try to bridge it into whatever it's going to be in the future. I don't think this will work, but I think it will be attempted. And I have a theory as to who they might pick, but I wanted to ask the panel who they think that would be. Who would inherit the mantle, Omar?
Guest:
[17:43] Well, I mean, the front runner seems to be Tina Fey. Like, that seems to be who everyone thinks is taking over. Seth Meyers could do it. I think he has the right sensibility for it. Maybe John Mulaney, because I really liked what he did with Everybody's in L.A., but maybe not. But I think it's sort of Tina Fey's to lose, honestly.
Sarah:
[17:58] Tara?
Tara:
[17:59] I don't know why she would want to do it. I can't imagine her taking that job. Like, that's the thing. Especially someone who's done it before is going to be like, no thanks. This sucks.
Sarah:
[18:08] Yeah.
Tara:
[18:08] Having to step into that. Like, there's no possible upside to being the person who's next, in my opinion. So I think she's smart enough to be like, I would rather continue making my own shows.
Guest:
[18:19] But I think it's also the element that I think would attract someone to it is the talent generation part of it. The part of, like, finding people and helping make them, you know, famous and elevate them. Like, I think that would be appealing to someone of like, okay, you know, I've done everything I want to do in comedy. Let me help other people kind of come up and become famous. I think that would be appealing to someone like a Tina Fey.
Tara:
[18:41] Yeah. Sarah, who was your thought?
Sarah:
[18:43] I think they go down a long list of people, all of whom are like, are you fucking kidding me? No way. And then they end up with Fallon and he drives it into the side of a mountain.
Guest:
[18:53] Oh, God.
Dave:
[18:54] That was in the back of my head. That was my pick. But yeah, because I just then like, are we really going to give him that chance again? But probably NBC probably would.
Tara:
[19:03] But the other thing to consider is like whenever Lorne Michaels, let's say, retires, whatever that is, or dies, like he is in charge of all of it. NBC's late night slate. Like he is the executive producer of SNL and the Seth Meyers show and the Jimmy Fallon show. And their NBC is already like chipping away at Seth Meyers. They made them fire their band. Like that's not a thing anymore. Jimmy Fallon went to four nights a week. It's like they're, they're already sort of like chiseling away at it. Is there still value in having, you know, late night talk shows? Who knows? Like Jimmy Kimmel is ending his this year too. So a lot of things are going to be different whenever Lorne Michaels is not active in his career, let's say.
Guest:
[19:46] If the relationship hadn't been soured so much, I could see someone like Conan O'Brien doing it.
Sarah:
[19:51] Yeah, Conan was on my longer list as well. But I think they would ask him and he would also say no. I think he just can't with NBC anymore and I don't blame him enough.
Tara:
[20:01] Nope. My final thought is Bob Odenkirk seems to have plotted his career to get powerful enough to talk shit about SNL and I respect it. He really seems like he hates Lorne Michaels.
Guest:
[20:10] Absolutely.
Tara:
[20:11] And the fact that he's never come back to host again really, it speaks volumes to me. Obviously, I don't know anything about anything, but saloon.
Dave:
[20:18] Yeah. The whole documentary series needed a lot more of that, but you're never going to get it.
Tara:
[20:23] Nope.
Dave:
[20:30] All right it's time to go around the dial talking about what we're watching on tv tara what do you got.
Tara:
[20:35] So severance is the apple tv plus show with adam scott as mark a guy who has undergone a procedure to sever his consciousness when he goes to work at a weird company called luon his conscious mind turns off and another identity which only came to life in the building and doesn't know anything about mark's life outside it or about the world outside at all takes over to do a shift of inscrutable office work for him. These are called Mark's outie and innie. Terminology I hate. Mark's outie has trauma. He's done all this to avoid. Mark's innie yearns to know more about the world outside, and that's your conflict. So when the first season dropped approximately 60 years ago, just kidding, it was only three, GQ assigned me to interview Scott on very short notice, and I think I watched the entire first season in a day.
Tara:
[21:22] Some might say that's not the right way to watch it. And they might be right because cramming it made me feel like it was obvious this is a movie idea that creator Dan Erickson didn't think he'd be able to sell as a movie, so he stretched out into a series. And then every critic and every person who watched it thought it was amazing and I felt crazy. After watching the second season and I've seen the whole thing, I feel less crazy. It's not that I don't understand what people like about Severance. It has an unnerving tone, a very distinctive aesthetic, actors we all like, an intriguing soft side mystery, lots of tantalizing details about the world that it's set in, but my problem is The last part, Erickson and the other writers seem to, and especially Ben Stiller, based on the New Yorker profile of him recently, seem to be addicted to world building. And that really busts out in season two, where every episode reveals some new strange element of Lumon or its founder.
Tara:
[22:16] I'm sure people say this is just laying track for stories that are coming later. And Erickson keeps giving interviews where he says he knows how this is all going to end. but I'm old enough to have watched so many shows that tried this shit and then couldn't actually end in a satisfying way lost and the x-files are probably the most obvious examples but we've all got our own disappointments where a tight first season was so successful the string just kept playing out more and more and longer and longer until the mythology was impossible to trace back to first principles and is the person to bring this one home a guy whose previous credit was working on the lip sync battle after show. I don't know. I'm happy you all love Severance. By you all, I mean the 0.1% of streaming customers who have Apple TV+. The great news for you is I can already see Vulture turning it into its new succession, so you're going to get enough blog posts about it to choke on regardless of anything I am saying right now. I'll also add a very funny story that I read today, which is Christopher Walken, who has what's sort of downgraded to more of a recurring role in season two, is apparently the only person to get severance on DVD because, as he puts it, he doesn't have the equipment to stream it, which I guess means a computer. And if anyone doesn't have a computer, yeah, him not having one makes sense to me.
Sarah:
[23:32] I will say that, speaking of The New Yorker, it looks like our past guest, Inku Kang, did not like it either or didn't love it. And definitely when it came to season two was like, yeah, we've watched TV before and we know what stalling is. Nice try. So I think that you're not all alone on that skinny branch.
Tara:
[23:53] Thank you. I'm glad to hear it.
Dave:
[23:57] All right, Omar, what have you been watching recently that you'd like to tell everybody about?
Guest:
[24:01] Well, based on recommendations from this podcast itself, I started in on AP Bio, which I, you know, you guys have been talking about. You've been talking about it for years, but I finally got around to it chugging an episode over lunch every day for like weeks. I haven't finished the fourth season, which just from where I'm sitting halfway through it does not feel quite as fun as previous ones. But overall, I'm enjoying it. It's just a great cast, great writing. it definitely has awesome great vibes and uh yeah i'm glad i'm glad that uh you all recommended it because i don't think i would have found it on my own i don't even remember hearing about it when it was actually when it started except from from this podcast the first two seasons i think are fantastic the third one's okay the fourth one i'm really struggling with getting through it i kind.
Dave:
[24:42] Of like that all the way through although like they got weirder as to go along like they.
Guest:
[24:46] It felt like it was trying to be community to me before yeah.
Dave:
[24:50] There's more like probability uh holes in the universe as you go along but yeah season four has some real like strange ones that i really glommed on do have you got to katie holmes day yet that.
Tara:
[25:02] Season three finale.
Guest:
[25:02] Oh is it okay yeah that's where i started like okay these are getting very high concept and it's starting to remind me of community that was that was what it felt like well.
Tara:
[25:10] And shout out to snl because michael bryan who created it started on snl and it also co-stars paula pell another snl writer and your plug.
Guest:
[25:18] Uh my The plug is I occasionally write TV reviews and other kind of TV related content for Book and Film Globe, which is run by Neil Pollack, the writer and editor. And I wrote a piece over the Christmas break about No Good Deed, which I don't I don't know if anyone here saw that. It's not fantastic. It's not a great show, but I was able to write a piece sort of about real estate advice you don't want to take from that show and kind of turned it into like a funny spin on that. So I have a piece, if you're a seller of a house, do not follow the tips from that show because yeah, very, very bad things happen on that show to sellers.
Dave:
[25:54] Sarah D. Bantinga.
Sarah:
[25:57] Oh, wow. That was exciting. I'm here to talk very briefly about a show called Playing for Peanuts. Not Playing for Peanuts, which is how a lot of them pronounce it during the show, which I actually don't hate. It's one of the more amusing things about it. It is a 10-part documentary. Each episode is half an hour. It's about an independent league team in the minors, the South Georgia Peanuts. and they're, relatively speaking anyway, celebrity manager Mr. Wally Backman. Each episode is a pretty baggy half hour with a lot of coming up filler in between and soundtrack cues that are very concerned that you will not understand what's supposed to be funny, when actually a lot of it is not that funny. It's just like a barrage of indignities that is life in the low minors. There's swarms of midges, no towels in the locker room. Like, this is not comedy. They also air 17 different angles on that guy who was supposed to parachute onto the field on opening day and delivered the first pitch baseball, but then wound up crashing into a palmetto instead. And that I have no problem with. That was very funny. The guy was not really harmed, but I didn't need quite that much penny whistle to tell me how to feel about it.
Sarah:
[27:11] But it does have a, like, occasionally it just stumbles on a fuck it, no one's watching, this airs at 12.45 on SNY vibe, like, let the seafood joints choose your live lobster claw gets a guest star credit in episode two. I don't hate this. I believe it was originally an SNY production, and that is the regional sports network here in NYC that airs the Mets games. those broadcasts have two of Wally Backman's former teammates in the booth, but the producer ended up pulling it off the air because SNY wasn't promoting it adequately, allegedly because the network did not want to be seen as favoring Backman as a replacement for then-embattled Mets manager Willie Randolph, whom the organization then did horribly dirty not a month later.
Sarah:
[28:00] My point here is you don't really need to watch this because mostly it made me want a docu-series about the docu-series and all the drama behind the scenes and the many ways that the previous owners of the Mets and SNY at that time just managed to be oves in every possible aspect of their business right up to when Bernie Madoff lost all their money, allegedly. So in the absence of that, I would settle for Ken Burns returning to the subject of baseball and doing a season about life in the minors, semi-pro stars of the previous century, prison teams, the House of David team.
Sarah:
[28:41] Even a 30-for-32 parter on the Newark Eagles. but there is something about playing for peanuts uh it's diy feel the terrible kerning dave be warned that it shares that with the independent leagues back in the day there's this like cheery amateurishness and like okay well we don't have any towels there's a guy stuck in a palm tree and they can't get the lights to work but and there's four people in the stands let's just play a game there's just something about that that is not it's lost now this kind of like let's dress in a curtain and put on a show vibe to the minor leagues that have now been completely corporatized by the majors and their organizations but without providing decent food or transportation or lodging to the players so yeah playing for peanuts give it a whirl they're only 20 minutes long. It's on YouTube.
Sarah:
[29:41] For my plug, I never stopped paying to host Tomato Nation, which I started 29 years ago. It's what they used to call a weblog. I guess I'm going to go back there because for my own personal sense of well-being, I need to be done with meta products. So tomatonation.com, best place to find me. I actually talked a little last week about Bob Uecker and Pete Alonzo, among other things. Ask the readers, still trying to find books for you guys. Comments are moderated because we used to have a proper internet and I'm old enough to remember it. So tomato nation.com. Hopefully I'll see you there.
Dave:
[30:18] All right. As promised on the, what we did over our winter vacation episode, I would talk about Skeleton Crew once I watched them all. And I have Star Wars Skeleton Crew. If you haven't heard of it, it's done. You watch the whole thing now. It's like they took Star Wars and they like infused it with pirate stuff and kind of like an 80s Goonies Steven Spielberg film vibe. It's like Treasure Island meets Peter Pan meets Star Wars, basically. It moves along at a pretty good pace. I was pretty happy with it. I think like I would say there's only one filler in the episodes. So that is like a refreshing change of pace from these things. Cause usually there's like, and now the flashback episode for the origin of the treat he had as a kid, like what? I don't need that. It involves four kids. So immediately like your heckles are up because you're like, Oh no kid actors. And they're not, they're not bad. Some are better than others, but there's this one kid that plays this blue elephant dude called Neil. His name's just Neil. and he kind of steals all the scenes he's in. And then there is a pirate robot named SM33. Get it? It's me.
Tara:
[31:24] Oh God, I didn't even get that. Dumb. Go on.
Dave:
[31:28] Voiced by Nick Frost and he's really good too. Jude Law is sort of the slightly conflicted heel of the story and he is having a lot of fun in this role. I won't give away what happens towards the end, But I was satisfied with what they did with that character versus where I thought that character was going at the start of the show.
Dave:
[31:49] Sadly notable, though, for this show is that it is a self-contained story. That's a good thing. I'm saying sadly notable for all of the Disney franchise TV shows where it's like, oh, here's a time blip between these two events you know from the movies. And here's the story in between those. It's not that. There's no cameos from like the Mandalorian, like the Mandalorian doesn't pop up and says, actually, you want to go to that port? That doesn't happen. So it's like nicely done. It's his own thing. The ending of it didn't make a ton of sense to me, but the ride was pretty fun. If you like Star Wars, but not like the Marvelization of Star Wars on Disney Plus, then I would say this is a light sort of treat snack for you. It's not essential viewing, but I enjoyed it. And I don't think we're going to get a second season because the numbers were even worse than The Acolyte, which definitely got bombed out. But this cost probably like so much less than The Acolyte because that was like over budget. So maybe, but I doubt it. And the other show that we're watching recently were a few episodes into American Primeval with Taylor Kitsch and Podfave, Betty Gilpin. That is a brutal show. Oh my God, yes. It's sort of like true grit dropped in the middle of Western expansionist politics.
Tara:
[33:07] Bone tomahawk.
Dave:
[33:08] A little bone tomahawk there for you, yeah. Not one to watch with the kids or if you're a squeamish individual, but pretty solid modern Western, I would say.
Tara:
[33:17] Mm-hmm. Dane DeHaan is also in it. I think it's safe to say he gets scalped in the first episode because there's been a lot of coverage about it. So it's, uh, it's Roof.
Dave:
[33:25] Yeah.
Tara:
[33:25] But she's great.
Dave:
[33:26] All right. So here's what's coming up on our shows on the next Extra Extra Hot Great. That is 336. We're going to cover the Star Trek made for TV movie Section 31. And we're bringing in Andrew Cunningham to help us talk about that one. That is this Friday. And then we have a bonus extra extra upgrade on Tuesday. That's going to be the first of our three of these feature. This is Tara's year. Tara, what are we doing quickly?
Tara:
[33:51] We are doing 90s sitcom episodes about male broadcasters trying to write a book.
Dave:
[33:58] Yeah. And our first one is what show?
Tara:
[34:00] Frasier.
Dave:
[34:01] Frasier. And you ought to know your Frasier. And then come back here on EHG Prime next week. We're going to be talking about the TV show Paradise. and we welcome back Alan Sepinwall for that. Go to extrahotgreat.com for all your needs and then go slash club to join the club.
Dave:
[34:25] It is time for the Extra Hot Great Cannon. Presenting this week is our guest, Omar. Omar, take it away.
Guest:
[34:32] Hello, esteemed Extra Hot Great Cannon committee. Today I'm presenting Season 1, Episode 9 of Shogun, FX's adaptation of the James Clavel historical epic about Japan in the 1600s. The episode is called Crimson Sky, and it is the emotional peak of the Emmy-winning series, an episode where everything we've been building up to explodes, literally, right in our faces. The episode begins with Lady Mariko, played by Anissa Wei, in a flashback to 14 years ago, two years after her father, Akechi Jinsei, died and after she's gotten married. She is walking through the snow, very pregnant, and trying for the third time to end her own life. It's at this point that we meet Friar Alvito, who tells her she's too young to be this sad and introduces her to Catholicism, At least for the time being, gives her some purpose to stay alive. He gives her some rosary beads that we'll end up seeing later in the episode. We return back to the present time in the story with John Blackthorn, the engine pilot. He's arriving in Osaka on the same boat as Lady Mariko, but she makes it clear to him that they just happen to be going in the same direction, despite the romance that's blooming between them. She's traveling on behalf of Lord Torunaga. Clip one, please. Why did he send you here? It has nothing to do with you.
Guest:
[35:52] Well my life is mine yours is yours he's obviously feeling a bit stung by that but she has a higher purpose she is arriving in osaka and also arriving with them is yabushige the closest thing that the anjin has to a friend who will be accompanying him they try to make a proposal to save their lives in front of lord ishito who is the kind of big baddie of the show trying to kind of snuff out Lord Turanaga and everyone in his group. As they arrive at the castle in Osaka, Lady Mariko explains the stakes. Clip two, please.
Guest:
[36:35] Indeed, war is sort of on the horizon. Yabushibe and the Anjin show up at the Council of Regions for Anjin to pledge himself to Lord Ishido. But the Anjin believes he's just going to be set up to be a traitor with Japan. He doesn't know that he's being offered up as a gift by the ever wily and tricky Yabushibe. At the council where Ishido, Lady Ochiba, and her son, the heir to the kingdom, they meet the offer with skepticism, given that he's believed to be a traitor anyway, and that he's still loyal to Lord Torunaga. Soon, all eyes are on Lady Mariko as she enters in a really stunningly shot scene, full of tension, full of intrigue. Lady Ochiba, who grew up with Mariko, says that it's been too long and invites Mariko to start a poem for their upcoming poetry competition. Her contribution is, while the snow remains veiled in the haze of a cold evening, a leafless branch. which Ishido calls bleak. But dude, just wait. Things are going to get very bleak before too long. That's a little bit of foreshadowing. Mariko informs Ishido that her lord Tornaga is still in Edo mourning his son, which Ishido doesn't have much sympathy about. Mariko tells the council that she'll miss the poetry competition because she's leaving for Edo tomorrow. And accompanying Kiri Nokata and Shuzu Nokata, Shuzu has Tornaga's youngest son, whom he hasn't seen yet, so she has plans to be out of there. But this causes a huge rift in the council. The women are hostages, but not so much in name, and Ishido doesn't want them to go with her. But he can't publicly admit that they are all being held against their will because that would cause a revolt. So Mariko says that she must follow her lord's orders even if Ishido doesn't like it, unless she's being held prisoner.
Guest:
[38:02] Ishido calls for a formal review, and Mariko holds the line saying that she won't delay her departure even for a little bit. I am free to go as I please, she tells him. This causes, of course, a huge commotion, and when she meets back with the Anjin and Yabushibe. Yabushibe is furious. He wants to know what Torunaga is really up to, but wisely, given Yabushibe's track record of deception, she keeps the plan to herself. He even makes fun of her poem, calling it terrible. Who writes about leafless branches in the spring, he tells her.
Guest:
[38:29] Yabushibe, as sneaky and terrible as he is, is really kind of the breakout of the show, the funniest and most entertaining character, even though he's completely sneaky and betrays everybody. And it's great to see him in this episode, even if we don't get to see Lord Tornaga. The Anjan is still trying to figure out what she's doing. Clipboard, please.
Guest:
[39:36] What follows is the real major set piece of the episode, a walking standoff. The doors slide open and Mariko is followed by her guards and her ladies that she's accompanying. She's stopped by Ishido's guards who ask for a permit that she doesn't have. She tells one of her men to please kill one of the guards and he does. And then some bites break out. But before too long, her men are decimated. Arrows are landing at her feet. And Mariko ends up desperately fighting Ishido's guards off herself with her Naginata spear. She's saying there's no way through and that it's not possible to fight through these men. But she can't disobey her orders from Torunaga. So because she can't do her duty and she cannot live with the offense, she says, I will take my life at sunset. Everyone's like, God damn, girl. She tells Lord Kayama to be her second since taking her life is a mortal sin and she's also a Christian. So basically, she's going to stop short of killing herself and he's going to kill her for her. But we'll find out later that that doesn't quite work out the way she wants it to. Later, Lady Ichiba tells the council that if they allow Mariko to die, there'll be a revolt from every high family in Osaka. But if Ishido allows her to leave, the hostages will also demand to leave. So her plan is pretty brilliant, and they're in a very bad situation. So Lady Ichiba tries to convince Mariko herself not to kill herself, but Mariko is determined. She tells her that accepting death isn't surrender and that flowers are only flowers because they fall.
Guest:
[41:02] Later, when they're alone, the Anjin says he thinks Tornaga is using Mariko's loyalty and committing a cowardly act. Mariko says the Anjin misunderstands. She says that life and death are the same and that they both have a purpose. He makes a desperate plea. Flip 6.
Guest:
[41:47] At sunset, Yabushiba is told that his life will be spared and he can join Ishido, but he has one last task to perform, and that is to betray the Anjin and Mariko. And then when the event is about to happen, Mariko's son and the ladies she was supposed to escort out of Osaka are present. She pulls out a dagger and places it in front of herself. She asks Lord Kamiya to please come forward to second her, but the coward isn't there. Mariko takes off her rosary and picks up the dagger, prepared to damn her own soul. But that's when the Anjan steps in. He loves her enough to save her soul, even though he doesn't even believe in her religion. He steps up, clip seven. I will do it.
Guest:
[42:48] Please wait until i have fallen but just as she's about to stab herself and the anjin is going to cut off her head word comes from ishido she's got her permits to leave and escort the others mariko comes to understand just how deeply the anjin cares for her and that night they have sex but they're woken up later when a group of assassins storms the castle in order to try to kill both of them yabashibe has betrayed them again on ishido's orders but they manage to fight them off and barricade themselves in a small storage room. Things are getting desperate. Nianjin asks Yabushibe to help shield the door, but he won't help. Mariko, understanding that this is her moment to become a martyr, stands by the door just as it's about to be blown in. Clip 8.
Guest:
[44:00] The episode ends on a literal boom as Mariko is killed by the explosion and we cut to black. She's fulfilled her purpose, helping Torunaga in a final act of defiance. And when it aired, we didn't have any idea that Shogun would continue past its first season, since the season was pretty much the whole of the book by James Clavel. But episode nine is the high watermark of the show, when all of the planning and storylines come together and Mariko's storyline is concluded in the most dramatic way possible. I never saw the original miniseries and was completely surprised by this ending and cried in shock when the ending happened. Ugly cried, and I'm sure many others did too. Shogun has been richly rewarded with Emmys and other accolades, but it's one of those times when the material and the execution really did deserve all the praise. It was my favorite show of last year, and I hope you'll induct Crimson Sky into the canon.
Tara:
[44:45] Thank you, Omar. Sarah, you concluded your watch of this season more recently than me did. Why don't you start?
Sarah:
[44:51] Okay. First of all, I would like to commend Omar Sama for presenting something that in this, you know, famously visual medium of podcasting in which many of the most touching and effective moments take place in Japanese or with subtitles or there is no speaking. So bold move. Well done. It was a pleasure, but also an ugly crying sadness to revisit this episode. And it really does all of the things that we had figured out episodes prior that this show did so well.
Sarah:
[45:27] Flashbacks are never too long. It's exactly the information that you need, and then you're back in the timeline that you're used to. It does not underline things that we're not supposed to know yet. It gives you some foreshadowing, but doesn't dwell. There are many beautiful sort of, like even the credits, like there's a subtlety to the imagery that it just lets you figure it out, and then you're into the episode. The best example of this, I think, in this episode is when the two women are talking about their childhood and the way the shot is composed, where they're back to back, but also sort of like overlapping in a foreground shot, facing away from each other. And then there's like a mist in the courtyard. So one of them is like not obscured, but like is becoming indistinct. And it's just like so visually evocative also at all times, this show. So that was really striking. And then the line of poetry that she picks, the many God's eye shots of the face-off in the courtyard of Mariko coming into, I don't even know, it feels like a trial and just...
Sarah:
[46:39] Literally standing her ground in front of this guy who is not going to back down. And yet she can't necessarily relay to the audience or other people in the room what is happening. So this episode really is everything that the show does well with one exception. And that is that we don't see Torunaga, who is such a, I mean, he is such a presence, but also like his presence is felt just off screen so that he's not in the episode is not a mark against it i don't think this is a good example of how yabushige could have become like this almost kramerized character i don't know how else to put it but that he's like you know he was this figure of fun so on and so forth but the i mean the show and the writing always sort of understood like this is You laugh at him and he's charismatic, but this is a, you know, this is a bad guy. He gets people killed. Yes, Dave.
Dave:
[47:36] This wasabi snack mix is making me thirsty.
Sarah:
[47:44] Okay.
Dave:
[47:46] You got creamerized.
Sarah:
[47:48] Oh, yeah. Yes. Long pause. Sorry. I'm sorry that I did not get that. I too have been creamerized. Apparently.
Guest:
[47:57] Dave too is evocative.
Sarah:
[47:58] That's like a actually an interesting segue to my last point which is that this explosion at the end we watched the episode and then took a break me and my husband and i was like oh well you know i'm sure they didn't actually kill her like they wouldn't do that and dan's like that's what makes the show so much better than most other television they absolutely killed her but even the way it was shot like that as she's being smithereened this last shot of her face is one of both sadness and contentment. Such good acting, and I'm really glad various voting bodies have rewarded it in that way. But it is interesting that the show understands how much traditional, sort of like shortcutty, uncourageously written and plotted TV we have all consumed, because that's what the culture is, and just doesn't do, it does what its story is and not necessarily what you're expecting. So yes, there was a legitimate mourning of this fictional person in our house. I love looking at this show and I love thinking about this show. So thank you for presenting it. And I think you chose well, wisely and well, for this particular episode. Tara.
Tara:
[49:09] Yeah, this was Anna Sawai's submission for the Emmys, which she won last fall. I mean, she also thought it was a high point of the season.
Sarah:
[49:17] Clearly.
Tara:
[49:18] And she really does get to do it all. The emotional beats land so hard. She gets to be resolved, determined, mournful, desperate. it she is truly honestly about to drive a dagger into her heart right before the reprieve comes i mean and then in the middle of all that there's this incredible fight i mean it is a beautiful set piece but it also it ties in the way that it's choreographed ties in so well with the rest of the episode the poem that you quoted and and when she tells the anjin flowers are only flowers because they fall she has a couple of big falls in this episode she trips in the middle of the fight right in the clip that we hear, actually. And then when she gets the permit at the very end, she sort of collapses. And just how much she puts into this nonverbal moment, it's incredible. I mean, she's so great. I'm glad the show gets to continue. I'm sorry, we won't be seeing more of her. But she really is unbelievable. And the rest of the episode is good, too. You're right about Yabushige, that he's a comic relief character, but also someone that you have to take seriously. and we see both of those in this episode, too. He gives Blackthorn, before the presentation of him as a possible gift, gives him bowing lessons, which is very funny.
Tara:
[50:34] Mariko's not there to translate, so they're trying to get wherever they can with Blackthorn's, like, limited Japanese, and so a lot is communicate with grunts. It's very good. And Blackthorn, I mean, he goes on a journey in this episode, too. Obviously, he's, you know, vastly in the shade compared to Mariko, but how he gets from this gesture is dumb to I understand valor now is you know all of it is earned and it also sets up where he closes the season too so great choice such a good show really can't say enough good things about it.
Dave:
[51:09] When she was on Monarch...
Tara:
[51:14] Legacy of Monsters, with Ishido playing her dad in that one, by the way.
Dave:
[51:19] Really quite bad. And when it came time for Shogun, I was like, uh-oh, but maybe it's just the material, I guess. And that made all the difference because she's great here. But boy, she was the weak link in Monarch, for sure.
Tara:
[51:33] It was a boring character, yeah.
Guest:
[51:34] The terrible character, yeah.
Dave:
[51:35] I only have a couple other things that nobody else has talked about. One, once again, let's give it up for the Star Wars treatment subtitles. Woe to apparently the international versions that just use the automated TV stuff. Really bums me out when I watch Star Wars now and they don't use the same font and everything that they did back in the day when I watched them for the first time in theaters. So good on Shogun for that one, recognizing subtitle excellence. And then Lady Oshiba, she can get it. That's my other thing about this one. She's got the Dave T. Cole thumb of approval. But yes, of course, really strong episode. Everything's coming together. The fact that this episode is so good and doesn't have Torunaga in it is a testament to the strength of this cast as a whole because like he is so dynamic in this series. And here's this episode that has not one lick of him, but we can probably say is like the highlight of the series. So that is my fantastic contribution to this discussion. Thank you, Star Wars. Dead-Eyed Shark ladies who can get it. okay let's put this to the official vote sarah d bunting what say you crimson sky canon worthy or not yes sir and tara of course of course me too so hey.
Dave:
[52:51] That means that shogun season one episode nine crimson sky you are hereby inducted into the extra hot great canon.
Dave:
[53:11] One other thing I forgot to mention is there was one missed opportunity in Crimson Sky, and that was they couldn't actually have a Japanese poetry slam.
Tara:
[53:22] Maybe in season two.
Dave:
[53:23] Maybe in season two. All right, let's find out the winner and loser of the week, starting with our winner, Tara. Who is it?
Tara:
[53:29] SNL writers all over this episode. My winner is Conan O'Brien, who's going to be the next recipient of the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor. Or when I put this into the doc, I was like, oh, yeah, Conan's not really in that episode, in the doc that we talked about, which is crazy because he wrote on that show for so long and it was such a big part of his his bio. But maybe fuck NBC also applies to retrospectives. So I get it. But good for him. Very funny man.
Dave:
[53:57] And loser of the week, Sarah.
Sarah:
[53:59] Well, we're still in the comedy sector, sort of. I believe we mentioned this in last week's Extra Extra Hot Grade. It was my not-quite-loser.
Tara:
[54:08] Yes. This is an update.
Sarah:
[54:09] Yes, I thought so. Dick Turpin's production company, Big Talk. Dick Turpin had filmed most of season two, but it can't continue with the footage they have, but without Noel Fielding, who has been, quote, not well, but not in a way that the production could get insurance for or start over with. Fairly long article on Deadline that seemed to deliberately be talking around a substance misuse disorder shaped gap. Allegedly. I don't know anything and I don't judge anyone, but that does seem to be what they are not saying about that. We hope everyone is okay.
Dave:
[54:49] Speaking about hoping everyone's okay, do you know what time it is?
Sarah:
[54:52] Game time?
Guest:
[54:53] Game time.
Dave:
[55:05] You know what it probably was. You know what it probably was. It was probably they didn't have Crack Fox insurance.
Tara:
[55:11] That'll get you every time.
Dave:
[55:12] Every time. All right. This is the third game time of the season. Scores are Tara was zero. Sarah with one point. Value guests with one point. Today we are playing Survivors. It comes from John Connors. who earns himself an extra credit topic of his choosing, plus a free shirt at the EHG store at throughmethods.com. Get yourself something throughmethods.com. In Survivors, you must figure out the number of actors who are in both the first and last episodes of a long running TV show. So you got the first episode, you got the last episode. What are the actors or characters that overlapped in that Venn diagram? I will give you the show name and each of you write down, I'm doing that close. We're on the honor system. We're all friends here. We're not going to change our answers after we brain write them down. Right? Right?
Tara:
[56:00] Right.
Dave:
[56:01] Huh?
Sarah:
[56:01] Right.
Dave:
[56:02] Huh? All right. Put down your number. Closest to the pin rules apply. The player who guesses closest to the actual number of overlapping actors gets two points or three for a bullseye. And then if there's a tie, we have the method. We'll come to it if we come to it. Technical notes. No actors are listed who just appear in archival footage. So if you got like a finale that is doing like, you know, the clip show of things that happened before, if they're in that only in the clip shows, that doesn't count. They have to be like on the set for the finale. And then actors who had a different role in the pilot versus the finale do not count. There is like one example of this in this whole game is something you would never, ever know. But we're just going to put it there in case one of you is a TV savant. So there we have it. Steel Meal situation does not really matter. So don't do it, Tara. Pinky is on holiday this week because we're all answering all questions. So are we ready to play Survivors?
Tara:
[57:01] Yes.
Dave:
[57:01] All right, here we go. We're going to start with our first show. Once again, you have to think about everybody who was in the premiere, everybody who was in the finale, and then figure out who was in both and write down that number. Your first show is the long-running show ER. So you're watching the ER pilot. You're thinking about all the characters that are in the pilot that were also in the finale. Keep in mind, they may have just come back for the finale. And then write down the number of actors or characters you think were in both.
Tara:
[57:31] Okay.
Dave:
[57:32] Give me a hand wave when you've got your answer. Omar, still thinking? All right. Everybody is locked in. Omar, how many people do you think overlapped in the premiere and the finale of ER?
Guest:
[57:47] Four.
Dave:
[57:48] Tara?
Tara:
[57:48] I also said four.
Dave:
[57:50] And Sarah?
Sarah:
[57:52] Ruh-roh, I said four as well.
Tara:
[57:54] No!
Dave:
[57:56] Well, nobody got the bullseye, and now that you're all tied, we have to do the tiebreaker right away.
Tara:
[58:01] Okay.
Dave:
[58:02] And I can tell you, you're all off by three. The answer is seven.
Tara:
[58:06] Wow.
Dave:
[58:07] Seven. And how are we going to break a tie? I'm going to tell you how we're going to break a tie. Okay. We're playing hot potato. You have to name the characters or actors. I'll accept either that were in both. There are seven people in contention here. We start with Omar. Omar, give me a actor or character name that fits the bill.
Guest:
[58:32] Carter.
Dave:
[58:34] Tara.
Tara:
[58:35] Chuni?
Dave:
[58:37] Chuni?
Tara:
[58:38] Yeah.
Dave:
[58:39] You're up. Sarah. Carol Hathaway Carol Hathaway Omar gets the first point Here are the people that overlapped Noah Wiley Carter Sherry Stringfield Eric LaSalle Abraham Ben Ruby, Deezer D as Malik Yvette Freeman as Halle.
Tara:
[59:01] Damn it I almost said her Halle fuck Halle.
Dave:
[59:04] Thank you And Ellen Crawford as Lydia Are your five Oh Lydia So Omar with, let's see, that was a two-point answer. Two-point answer because that wasn't a bullseye. So we're giving two points for that one.
Tara:
[59:18] All right.
Dave:
[59:18] We're on to our second show. Figure out how many people were in the premiere and finale of Everybody Loves Raymond. Everybody Loves Raymond. Deborah, I guess I'm AP for it both. Deborah. Let me know when you're locked in. everybody's locked in we start with tara nine nine sarah seven omar five we have a tie because both tara and sarah are one off on either side of it so let's go to our hot potato, guesses of seven and nine means we have eight eight characters in contention tara okay first Last one, please.
Tara:
[1:00:08] I don't remember what any of the kids were named, so I'll start with the actors. Brad Garrett.
Dave:
[1:00:12] Brad Garrett. You are correct, Sarah.
Sarah:
[1:00:17] Raymond.
Dave:
[1:00:19] Correct, Tara.
Tara:
[1:00:20] Doris Roberts.
Sarah:
[1:00:23] Uh, God. The wife, Deborah. Deborah?
Dave:
[1:00:28] Deborah! Patricia Heaton.
Tara:
[1:00:32] Peter Boyle.
Dave:
[1:00:33] Peter Boyle is correct.
Sarah:
[1:00:37] Raymond Jr.
Dave:
[1:00:38] Raymond Jr. Unfortunately.
Sarah:
[1:00:42] No.
Dave:
[1:00:42] Can I give you that? You were right in spirit, but wrong in any technical aspect. We had Madeline Sweeten as Allie Barone.
Tara:
[1:00:50] Allie.
Dave:
[1:00:50] Sawyer Sweeten as Jeffrey.
Tara:
[1:00:52] Right.
Dave:
[1:00:52] Sullivan Sweeten as Michael. All right. So that one goes to Tara.
Tara:
[1:00:57] Okay.
Dave:
[1:00:58] Next up.
Tara:
[1:00:59] For one point, right?
Dave:
[1:00:59] For two points.
Tara:
[1:01:00] Okay.
Dave:
[1:01:01] It's two or three. Our next show is Friday Night Lights. Overlapping Actors finale, premiere, Friday Night Lights. Let me know when you're locked in. It's a show about football, high schools, Texas.
Sarah:
[1:01:17] Lights.
Dave:
[1:01:17] Car dealership.
Tara:
[1:01:18] Mm-hmm.
Dave:
[1:01:19] All right. Everybody's locked in. Sarah D. Bunting.
Sarah:
[1:01:22] Let me know. Ten.
Dave:
[1:01:23] Ten. Omar.
Guest:
[1:01:25] Nine.
Dave:
[1:01:26] Tara.
Tara:
[1:01:27] Eight.
Dave:
[1:01:29] Sarah D. Bunting with a bullseye.
Tara:
[1:01:31] Ten.
Dave:
[1:01:33] Eric, Tammy, Taylor, Julie, Tear, Matt, Tim, Tyra, Landry, Buddy, Billy, and Mrs. Saracen.
Tara:
[1:01:41] Nice.
Sarah:
[1:01:42] Oh, yeah.
Dave:
[1:01:43] Three points.
Tara:
[1:01:44] Three points. Good job, Sarah.
Dave:
[1:01:45] Your next show, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. How many in both? Tara's locked in. Omar's locked in. Sarah's locked in. Omar, what's your number?
Guest:
[1:01:57] Six.
Dave:
[1:01:58] Tara?
Tara:
[1:01:59] Nine.
Dave:
[1:01:59] Sarah?
Sarah:
[1:02:00] Six.
Dave:
[1:02:01] We have a tie. One off the actual number of five. So, Omar and Sarah, you are... Hot potato, hot potato. Potato, hot potato.
Guest:
[1:02:11] Hot potato, hot potato. Hot potato, hot potato.
Dave:
[1:02:15] All right, Omar, give us our first actor or character.
Guest:
[1:02:18] Sarah Michelle Gellar.
Dave:
[1:02:19] Sarah Michelle Gellar is, of course, correct.
Sarah:
[1:02:23] Alison Hannigan.
Dave:
[1:02:24] Yes.
Guest:
[1:02:29] Giles.
Dave:
[1:02:30] Two left.
Sarah:
[1:02:33] Xander.
Dave:
[1:02:34] One left. Nomar has to get it.
Guest:
[1:02:37] Charisma Carpenter.
Dave:
[1:02:40] The last one was. Any guesses, Sarah? Last one.
Sarah:
[1:02:44] No. Harmony.
Dave:
[1:02:45] Angel.
Sarah:
[1:02:47] Oh, yeah.
Tara:
[1:02:47] I thought Anthony Stewart.
Sarah:
[1:02:48] I forgot he came back.
Guest:
[1:02:49] He was on the pilot.
Dave:
[1:02:50] Well, you said Rupert.
Tara:
[1:02:51] Oh, okay. Sorry.
Dave:
[1:02:53] All right. So that one goes to Sarah for two points. Our next show, guys. Happy days. Happy days.
Guest:
[1:03:01] They weren't always happy days, Dave.
Tara:
[1:03:02] That was happy days. No.
Dave:
[1:03:07] Oh, ye of little faith. Happy days. Let me know when you're locked in on the number of actors or characters that were in both the finale and the premiere. I don't know why I keep on saying the finale first, but it just makes it up. It's crazy. Everybody's locked in. Tara, happy days. How many?
Tara:
[1:03:26] Eight.
Dave:
[1:03:26] Eight for Tara. Sarah?
Sarah:
[1:03:28] Six.
Dave:
[1:03:29] And Omar?
Guest:
[1:03:31] Ten.
Dave:
[1:03:32] And Sarah wins this one. She was one off five. We had the Fonz.
Tara:
[1:03:37] Sure.
Dave:
[1:03:38] We had Mrs. Cunningham. Yep. Joni Cunningham. Right. We had Potsy, and we had Howard Cunningham. They were the only five in both.
Tara:
[1:03:45] Ralph Malfe wasn't in the finale?
Dave:
[1:03:47] Ralph Malfe was not in both.
Tara:
[1:03:49] Fucking Ron Howard was too busy to come back?
Dave:
[1:03:53] Yeah.
Guest:
[1:03:53] I thought he came back for the finale.
Tara:
[1:03:55] That's crazy.
Dave:
[1:03:56] All right.
Sarah:
[1:03:57] So it's two.
Dave:
[1:03:58] Two points for Sarah.
Sarah:
[1:03:59] Got it.
Dave:
[1:04:00] Next show up, MASH. MASH. that stands for mashed and served hot everybody is locked in sarah debunting i.
Sarah:
[1:04:13] Also don't love this guess but here we all are together seven.
Dave:
[1:04:16] Seven versus omar i had seven versus five five will be the closest the actual answer remember a lot of turnover yeah two alan alda and hot lips, Holy. Loretta Swift.
Guest:
[1:04:35] Clinger was too busy?
Tara:
[1:04:37] Yeah.
Sarah:
[1:04:38] Seriously?
Dave:
[1:04:39] This is one of them. Clinger was in the pilot as another character's voice.
Tara:
[1:04:45] Oh, interesting.
Dave:
[1:04:46] He was one of the PA voices or something like that.
Tara:
[1:04:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah:
[1:04:49] That's crazy. Okay.
Dave:
[1:04:50] But not as Clinger. Because Clinger comes in a few episodes in, I think. All right. So two points there to Tara.
Tara:
[1:04:57] Okay.
Dave:
[1:04:57] All right. Next up is the television program known as Cheers. Cheers. How many characters were in the premiere and the finale of Cheers? Brains of humming. Sarah D. Bunting locked in. Omar locked in. Tara locked in. All right. Omar, cheers. What do you got?
Guest:
[1:05:17] Four.
Dave:
[1:05:18] Tara?
Tara:
[1:05:18] Three.
Dave:
[1:05:20] Sarah?
Sarah:
[1:05:21] Six.
Dave:
[1:05:22] Okay, four and six. We'll meet in Hot Potato Zone because the answer was five. All right. We've got five to work with. Omar, give me your first actor or character that overlapped. the end and beginning of the show.
Guest:
[1:05:40] Cliff? Cliff Clavin?
Dave:
[1:05:42] Cliff Clavin is... Yes. One of them.
Sarah:
[1:05:47] Uh... Ted Danson.
Dave:
[1:05:49] Ted Danson. Yes.
Guest:
[1:05:52] Carla?
Dave:
[1:05:53] Carla. Yep.
Sarah:
[1:05:55] Norm!
Dave:
[1:05:56] Norm. Yes. All right. One left.
Guest:
[1:06:01] Um... Oh, shit. Razor?
Dave:
[1:06:06] No. Any other guesses? She came back. The finale. It's Diane.
Tara:
[1:06:11] Diane was back. I couldn't remember if she had or not.
Dave:
[1:06:13] Yeah. She comes back. All right. So two points there to Sarah Bunting winning another hot potato face-off against Omar. Next show is House. House. We're thinking about the actors. We're thinking about the characters. The ones that were in the premiere. The ones that were also in the finale. What is that number? Tara's locked in. Sarah's locked in. Omar's locked in. Let's go to Tara first for House.
Tara:
[1:06:37] Six.
Dave:
[1:06:38] Then to Sarah.
Sarah:
[1:06:39] Two.
Dave:
[1:06:40] And to Omar.
Guest:
[1:06:41] Five.
Dave:
[1:06:43] Bullseye on five for Omar.
Tara:
[1:06:45] That's three points.
Sarah:
[1:06:46] Nice.
Guest:
[1:06:46] House.
Sarah:
[1:06:47] Good job.
Dave:
[1:06:48] Dr. Foreman, Dr. Wilson, Dr. Chase, Dr. Cameron.
Sarah:
[1:06:52] Fuck.
Guest:
[1:06:52] Complete guess.
Dave:
[1:06:54] Nicely done. All right. This will take us into our score break. The show is lost.
Tara:
[1:06:59] Oh, God.
Dave:
[1:07:01] Lost.
Sarah:
[1:07:02] Oh, fuck.
Dave:
[1:07:08] All right, Sarah, D. Bunting's first to lock in. Tara's locked in. Omar's still pondering. Omar is locked in. All right, Sarah, D. Bunting, what is your number for Lost?
Sarah:
[1:07:19] The old fugget. No idea. Guess. 11.
Dave:
[1:07:23] 11 from Sarah now to Omar.
Guest:
[1:07:27] Eight.
Dave:
[1:07:29] Versus Tara's.
Tara:
[1:07:30] Six.
Dave:
[1:07:31] Sarah, D. Bunting, wins this one too. Your actual number 13 for Lost. We've got Saeed, Rose, Claire, Sawyer, Jack, Hurley, Shannon, Jinsu, Sunwa, Kate, Charlie, John Locke, and Boone.
Tara:
[1:07:48] Why did I think Locke died?
Guest:
[1:07:51] I thought Charlie died.
Tara:
[1:07:52] How many points is that.
Dave:
[1:07:53] Too? But they all came back at the end.
Guest:
[1:07:54] Oh, God, of course. Sarah, you're so smart.
Dave:
[1:07:59] All right, so let's find out the scores, please.
Tara:
[1:08:01] Sarah debunting, killing with 11 points. Omar has seven. I have four.
Dave:
[1:08:06] All right, let's get right back to it with our next TV show. We have six left. We're talking about the television program known as Friends, which actors' characters were in both the finale of Friends and then way back in the premiere of Friends. Tara is the first to lock in, no surprise. And everybody else is now locked in. Let's go to Omar first. Friends, how many?
Guest:
[1:08:30] Seven.
Dave:
[1:08:30] Seven for Friends versus Tara?
Tara:
[1:08:33] Six.
Dave:
[1:08:34] Versus Sarah?
Sarah:
[1:08:36] I also said seven.
Dave:
[1:08:38] And we have a bullseye. No surprise. It is Tara Ariano with six. The six friends. Only ones in both.
Guest:
[1:08:46] What of Gunther?
Tara:
[1:08:47] He didn't come until later.
Sarah:
[1:08:48] That was my reasoning, too.
Guest:
[1:08:51] Oh, well.
Dave:
[1:08:52] You overthought it. All right. Next show, Parks and Rec. Parks and Recreation. Overlapping actors for the start and the end of Parks and Rec. Big cast. How many were in both episodes, though? Tara's locked in. Omar's locked in. Sarah's locked in. Let's go to Tara first.
Tara:
[1:09:11] Seven.
Dave:
[1:09:11] All right. Sarah?
Sarah:
[1:09:13] Eight.
Dave:
[1:09:14] Eight versus Omar's?
Guest:
[1:09:16] And seven.
Dave:
[1:09:17] Seven. Seven. Eight. Bullseye on eight for Sarah D. Bunting.
Tara:
[1:09:22] That's three points.
Dave:
[1:09:23] Leslie, Tom, Ron, April, Andy, Jerry, Donna, and Anne in both.
Tara:
[1:09:28] Oh, I didn't know about, I wasn't sure about Donna.
Dave:
[1:09:31] All right, let's get back to it with Roseanne, the 1997 version only. So we're not counting the reboot. So the start of the original series and the end of the original series. How many actors, characters were in both? Sarah is locked in. Tara is locked in. Omar is locked in. Let's go to Sarah D. Bundy first.
Sarah:
[1:09:54] Eight again.
Dave:
[1:09:56] Eight. Omar?
Guest:
[1:09:57] Five.
Dave:
[1:09:59] Tara?
Tara:
[1:09:59] I also had five.
Dave:
[1:10:00] You guys are in the hot potato.
Sarah:
[1:10:02] Hot potato, hot potato.
Dave:
[1:10:08] You are both one off. It is four, so we have four, and Omar is first.
Guest:
[1:10:15] Jackie.
Dave:
[1:10:15] Jackie, correct, yes.
Tara:
[1:10:19] Roseanne, Barb.
Dave:
[1:10:20] Roseanne, yep.
Guest:
[1:10:22] Dan.
Dave:
[1:10:23] Dan, one left.
Tara:
[1:10:26] Sarah Gilbert.
Dave:
[1:10:27] Sarah Gilbert as Darlene is correct. You'll split those points then, so one apiece. Three questions left. Your next show, I Love Lucy. I love Lucy. Tara is locked in. Sarah is locked in. Omar is locked in. Omar, how many overlapping actors?
Guest:
[1:10:50] Three.
Dave:
[1:10:51] Three. Tara?
Tara:
[1:10:52] Four.
Dave:
[1:10:53] Sarah?
Sarah:
[1:10:54] Four.
Dave:
[1:10:55] We have a bullseye hot potato. Hot potato, hot potato.
Guest:
[1:11:00] Hot potato, hot potato.
Dave:
[1:11:02] Hot potato, hot potato. Hot potato, hot potato. All right, this is worth three points. Tara and Sarah both guessed four. That was correct. Tara, you go first.
Tara:
[1:11:13] Lucille Ball?
Dave:
[1:11:14] Uh-huh. Sarah?
Sarah:
[1:11:17] Ricky Ricardo.
Dave:
[1:11:19] Correct. Tara?
Tara:
[1:11:22] Vivian Vance.
Dave:
[1:11:23] Correct. And last one for Sarah?
Sarah:
[1:11:26] Mr. Mertz. I don't remember his first name.
Dave:
[1:11:29] Mr. Mertz. Okay, that's fine. Fred Mertz is there. So we're going to split that one and a half each there. all right uh next show is the walking dead.
Guest:
[1:11:43] So that till that recent finale that.
Dave:
[1:11:46] Just ended the oh my god the original walking dead show right.
Guest:
[1:11:51] But till that is the one that just ended last year.
Dave:
[1:11:54] I guess oh okay yeah was that the finale yeah not the spinoffs not the daryl dixon book of carol part two act one subsection b at that show.
Guest:
[1:12:04] Original zombie skin recipe.
Sarah:
[1:12:08] Stargate Walking Dead.
Dave:
[1:12:09] Exactly. Sarah's locked in. Tara's locked in. A lot of people died on The Walking Dead.
Guest:
[1:12:15] Oh, yeah.
Dave:
[1:12:16] Omar's locked in. All right. Tara, Walking Dead, how many overlapping actors?
Tara:
[1:12:20] This is a risky choice, but I'm going to do it anyway. Zero.
Dave:
[1:12:23] Zero. All right. Zero. Sarah.
Sarah:
[1:12:27] I like that choice. I was not as bold. Five.
Dave:
[1:12:30] Omar.
Guest:
[1:12:31] One.
Dave:
[1:12:32] Sarah D. Bunting takes us one. She was one off. The answer was four.
Tara:
[1:12:36] Wow.
Dave:
[1:12:36] Daryl Dixon, Carol, Morgan Jones, Rick Grimes were your actors.
Guest:
[1:12:41] Rick is in the finale with Michonne, yeah.
Dave:
[1:12:43] Yeah. Were your actors.
Sarah:
[1:12:44] All right.
Tara:
[1:12:45] Sorry, were the characters.
Dave:
[1:12:46] Back. All right. Last question.
Guest:
[1:12:48] He came back.
Dave:
[1:12:49] Curb your enthusiasm. Curb your enthusiasm. Tara is locked in. Omar's locked in. Sarah is locked in. Let's go to Sarah first for the overlapping actors who are the premiere and finale of Curb.
Sarah:
[1:13:07] Absolutely no idea what to do with this. So three.
Dave:
[1:13:11] Three. Okay. Omar?
Guest:
[1:13:13] Five.
Dave:
[1:13:14] Five for Omar. Tara?
Tara:
[1:13:16] I said three as well.
Dave:
[1:13:18] Omar with the bullseye. Larry, Jeff, Cheryl, Richard, and Susie are your overlapping characters slash actors.
Guest:
[1:13:29] My only question was whether Richard was in it. I was going to go four or five, yeah.
Dave:
[1:13:32] And that is regulation. So let's hear the scores, please.
Tara:
[1:13:36] Okay. I finished with 11 and a half. Omar finished with 13. But Sarah is our winner again with 19 and a half.
Guest:
[1:13:47] Decisive.
Dave:
[1:13:48] Nicely done.
Guest:
[1:13:50] All right.
Dave:
[1:13:50] All right. We've got a tiebreaker that we'll use for a steel meal for future use. All the same rules apply. Your TV show is Laverne and Shirley. Laverne and Shirley. Lock in when you have your number. Sarah is locked in. Everybody else is locked in. All right. Let's go to Sarah first. Laverne and Shirley.
Sarah:
[1:14:10] Four.
Dave:
[1:14:11] Tara.
Tara:
[1:14:12] Three.
Dave:
[1:14:13] Omar.
Guest:
[1:14:14] I hit four.
Dave:
[1:14:14] Four. Whoever said three, that was Tara. She gets it. actual answer one wow only Penny Marshall was in both wow she had already killed and eaten Shirley by that point in the show she.
Sarah:
[1:14:29] Was a Teratoma all along.
Dave:
[1:14:31] Tara you get the stew meal for future use but today's win goes to Sarah D. Bunting,
Dave:
[1:14:39] Sarah. Nicely done. Thank you, John. That was really fun. I enjoyed that for him.
Sarah:
[1:14:43] Yeah, it was fun.
Guest:
[1:14:44] That was a cool game.
Dave:
[1:14:45] That is it for this episode of Extra Hot Great. We auditioned the Saturday Night Live behind the scenes doc before going around the dial with stops at Sufferance, AP Bio, Playing for Peanuts, Skeleton Crew, and American Primeval. Omar held us all hostage for his decree that Shogun's Crimson Sky will be in the canon. We crown winners and losers of the week. And Sarah was the winner of this week's Game Time from John. Next up is Star Trek's Section 31 on Friday's Extra Extra Hot Great, followed by a second bonus Extra Extra Hot Great that Tuesday, and then return back here Wednesday for Paradise. Remember. We're listening. I am David T. Cole, and on behalf of Tara Ariano.
Tara:
[1:15:31] Carry on with your boring Christian squabbles.
Dave:
[1:15:34] Sarah D. Bunting.
Sarah:
[1:15:36] Please wait until I have fallen.
Dave:
[1:15:38] And Omar Gallaga.
Guest:
[1:15:40] Gotta have a cowbell.
Dave:
[1:15:42] Thanks for listening We'll see you next time Right here on Extra Hot Great, That's how you bow.
Tara:
[1:16:00] He's saying that's how you don't bow.