Larry Sanders Can’t Stop (Writing His Memoir)

Clip: [0:00] What do you think of this for a title? Leading with My Ass. Dave: [0:09] This is the Extra, Extra Hot Great Podcast, episode 363, our last installment of three of these for 2025. I am backstage masturbator David T. Cole, and I'm here with Pony Whipper Sarah D. Bunting. And go to fill in guest our Tara Ariano. Tara: [0:35] I brought my own mic. Welcome to Extra, Extra Hot, Great, the podcast that would not exist. If not for your support, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for listening to the rest of this series. We assume you did. We are closing out the Three of these mini-series for 2025. These are, of course, all sitcom episodes about broadcasters writing books. And we're finishing with season five, episode ten of the Larry Sanders show, titled The Book. This originally aired February 5th, 1997. This was the last of The 18 Larry Sanders episodes that Maya Forbes is credited with having written. She's mostly working at kids' stuff these days, but also wrote both A Dog's Purpose and A Dog's Journey. It was directed by Alan Meyerson. This is one of eight Larry Sanders episodes he directed. And this three of these has a few key differences from the other two we discussed. One is that it has a B plot. Beverly, Larry's assistant, has received a bouquet with To the Loveliest Lady I Know written on the unsigned card. Hank's assistant, Brian, says it must make her feel great to know someone thinks she's so special, but Beverly Blows right past that to guessing they are from a network executive named James, played by Joseph C. Phillips, who also played Denise's husband in the later years of the Cosby show. who always says hi when he walks past Beverly's desk. Brian thinks that probably doesn't mean too much, but Beverly is convinced, staking out the elevator to flirt with him. Finally, she just comes straight out and says she got his gifts and he has to tell her it wasn't him. Brian finds her moping later, and when she says her secret admirer wasn't James, Brian says he knows because it was him. He wanted to give her a little boost. She is humiliated and says she'll be a lot more understanding next week. But right now, he can take his gifts and shove them. And Artie finds Beverly at her desk later, crying. Clip two. Clip: [2:29] When a gay man is the only one writing you poetry, it makes you feel like a real charity case. Oh, sweetie, I know how you feel. You know, when my fourth wife quit me, I threw a party. But I cried for days when you left me. Tara: [2:43] Oh. This is the only thing that makes the storyline memorable at all to me, reminding us that Beverly and already dated and that he maybe still carries Torch, but it's also definitely unexpected that the episode leaves things open-ended with Beverly and Brian. What did you guys think about the V-plot? Dave: [3:02] But the most upsetting thing about the B plot for me was Scott Thompson sporting a goatee. I hate it. Sarah: [3:09] Yeah, I didn't love that either. Dave: [3:11] I'm not like totally anti-goatee. We all lived through the goatee years. Tara: [3:14] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dave: [3:16] I had a goatee, I wore it much better than Scott Thompson did, but still, you look back and you're, what the fuck were we all doing? Tara: [3:16] You did. I agree. Mm-hmm. Dave: [3:22] What's the actor's name? The CSI Hodges guy? Tara: [3:25] Oh, Wallace Langham. Dave: [3:26] Wallace Langham. Tara: [3:27] Mm-hmm. Dave: [3:27] He has a goatee. It fits him a little bit better because it's like a sleazy cut, you know? Tara: [3:32] Yes. Dave: [3:33] So, like, if you're kind of a sleazy character to begin with. The goatee accentuates that. So I wasn't as mad to see it on him standing next to Scott Thompson in a scene. On Scott Thompson, thanks. Tara: [3:45] Yeah. Dave: [3:45] I hate it. Tara: [3:46] I don't blame Beverly for creating a fantasy life with James since he is hot. Sarah: [3:47] Yeah. Tara: [3:50] She deserves it. But I appreciate that the episode keeps her humiliation on a normal human scale. Like nothing she does is that cataclysmic. It still sucks. She did it. For and with a guy, she's going to have to see at work all the time, but you know. Sarah: [4:03] This is always there. What trips me up about any plot with that character is that I so associate the actor with twenty-four. Tara: [4:12] Sure. Sarah: [4:13] And with just being like that, that character would have had nothing to do with any of this, for good or ill. Tara: [4:19] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [4:21] It takes me a while to settle back into her as not her 24 character. And so by the time this wrapped up, like you said, I was relieved that it didn't get too bathetic for her. Tara: [4:34] Yeah. No, the real chump of this episode is Larry, and let's go to the A plot. Of course, we know what it is. We are still in the era when publishers were throwing money at every comic with a sitcom to parlay their fame into book sales by, in some cases barely turning their acts into books of funny essays. Artie doesn't know why Larry would want to do this when he's still mid-career. Larry has questions and he calls his agent, Stevie, who's played by Bob Odenkirk. Clip three. Clip: [5:03] Hey, hey, guess why I just dumped so I could talk to you, huh? Fucking Fergie! She wants to do a talk show. I think she might fuck me too. Stevie, what did Paul Riser get for writing his book? Pick up the phone. Fuck you. Fuck you, Screamer. What did he get for writing it? You're kidding. What did Leno get? Oh my God. And he still goes on the road? What is that about? Think I can get that? Tara: [5:32] Just a reminder, Leno's seeming greediness touring when he was on The Tonight Show was a story for decades. Like, people have been talking about it for so, so long. Sarah: [5:41] And yeah, that's why he has a car warehouse. I mean, this sort of comes up later because they keep going back to like the comedy memoir shelf visual. I think I read like 70% of those. Did you? Tara: [5:55] I read a bunch of them. Yep. I for sure read Sign Language. Sarah: [5:57] Yeah. Mhm. Tara: [5:58] I think I read the Paul Reiser one. Like a lot of them I just got because I worked at the library and in the boom time for all of these. Sarah: [6:04] Right. Tara: [6:05] So, you know. I could grab them when they were coming through. Yeah, there was so many. Sarah: [6:09] There really were so many. Tara: [6:11] Artie thinks it would be a big mistake for Larry to write a book right now. and keeps saying so. Hank has his own reasons for concern about Larry's book project, and a typical Hank style, they are quite self-interested. Clip four. Clip: [6:24] He's gonna write about the incident. What incident? Oh, come on, you know, you know, you you know, don't make me say it. You mean everyone's favorite, the sex tapes? No. The time you slipped and chipped your tooth on the urine? Oh my god, I forgot all about that. No, I was thinking about the time I uh I masturbated before the show and you caught me. I forgot about that one. What am I going do about Larry's book? Well, Hank, I don't really know. But I tell you, the next time. Before the show, when you feel the need to whip your pony, I suggest you lock the door. Tara: [7:01] Artie the best. I have to say, it is so funny. Sarah: [7:05] Uh Oh, my God, perfect, perfect. Tara: [7:07] The tooth-chipping urinal story is still getting play. And what I think is the first time it ever comes up, Hank gets really upset that Larry and Artie made so much fun of him for it. And Larry just quietly goes. It was a back tooth, which is my pick for the funniest punchline of the show. Literally, I wrote a story for cracked that was like the 50 funniest punchlines, and that was it. Sarah: [7:28] Oh, my God. Tara: [7:29] Amazing. Anyway, then Larry chats with former sex partner Dana Delaney. Clip five. Clip: [7:36] How many times approximately did we make love? Once. Gee, I thought it was more than that. Wasn it more in the area of twenty or something like that? Once. Once you're positive. No, oh wait, wait, wait. There was that time that we slept together, but I think that night. You had sex with my body pillow. It was my body pillow, but I'm happy to say it was your body pillow. Then I broke up with you, right? No, I broke up with you. No, I broke up with you, didn't I? I didn't hear from you for two weeks. You were a jerk. That's right. Oh, and then when you finally did call, you just wanted to get together and have sex. Oh, God. This is so interesting. This is exactly the kind of thing And when we did, you couldn't get it up. This is just great. Tara: [8:43] So here's how that gets translated in his draft, Calypso. Clip: [8:48] I left Dana Delaney to be with Nicole Kidman, who left me to be with Tom Cruise. Dana just couldn't keep up with me sexually. I had been taking 20,000 units of vitamin A, which I later found out did nothing. Oh, I I think vitamins IN. Larry. We're just going over content now. Oh, okay. To this day, I have still not found a woman who can keep up with me sexually. With the possible exception of Drew Barrymore and Doctor Ruth. It's funny. It's funny. Isn't it? It's funny. Do you like that better than the anecdote about bumping into Courtney Cox at the pleasure chest? Oh, no, you you should use them both. Both? Yeah. Tara: [9:26] Another reminder, most books are not fact check for stuff like this. Meanwhile, turns out there's a reason Artie has opinions about showbiz figures writing books. Clip 7. Clip: [9:37] I said to Jack Lord, Do you have hemorrhoids? He said, No. I said, Alas, I met a perfect asshole. What? Hello! Hey, what was that? Oh, you mean the pad I threw in my drawer? Just a pad. Oh, 'cause it looks like you were hiding from me. Oh, it wasn't. Let me see. Okay. Oh shit, the goddamn desk drawer is stuck. You move your knee. Fucking it with your knee. I started Producing the Larry Sanders show in 1987, I found it to be nearly as exciting as producing some of the Broadway plays I had done in the early part of my career. It's just my memoirs. Memoirs of what? About my life. What the fuck do you think a memoir is? So you're writing a book? Yes, I am. Have you made a deal? I've had a deal for a year. What has happened to the world that nowadays anybody can write a book? Anybody. Anybody. Who wants to read about a producer when they can read about a star? Well, which book did you enjoy most? Johnny Carson's a fancy Fred DeCardovas. What a fucking ego. That should be the title of your book. Tara: [10:58] Larry can't focus on this. He has his own book to write and write. And right. And what you're going to hear, you won't be able to tell, but this is a montage of several different visits by Beverly to Larry's house, Clebate. Clip: [11:11] Oh, I had no idea your drug problem was that bad. Uh-huh. You presented at the Emmys when you were stopping. Uh-huh. I thought I kissed Marla Gibbs in uh press room. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? You had a provision put in your contract that guaranteed you'd make more than Leno? Well, how much does Leton make? Less than me. Interesting, huh? You threatened to walk off the show if the network didn't redecorate your dressing room? Isn't that a great ending? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well proof it before we send it out. Don't fuck it up. Of course not. Tara: [11:48] Again, you can't see this either, but the draft is like seven reams of paper. She can barely walk out with it. It is so big. So sometime later, Larry gets the galley for the book his publisher wants to put out right away. But when he actually reads it, maybe for the first time, he starts. Spiraling that seeing his life laid out like this makes it look like there's nothing but greed, self-loathing, and anger. And that is not what he's like, he says. Larry hides in the grip room from guests including Brooke Shields, Marlee Matlin, Bruno Kirby, about to get bumped again, and possible guest host Dr. Joyce Brothers, since all their other go-to's. Jerry Seinfeld, Roseanne, and Bill Maher are also comics who have also written books. Brooke, at least, is ready for the show to go on. In the clips, we're hearing her in conversation with Marley, with Marley's comments being relayed by her interpreter, Jack. Clip9. Clip: [12:40] So I thought that we would act like we'd been together the night before and had sex, and you left something at my apartment, but then it turns out to be totally innocent. Brooke, that was my idea. But I'm on first. Too bad. But it's really my idea. But I'm on first. What did she say? Jack, what did she say? What a cunt. Tara: [13:12] Finally, Artie just tells the band to start. And when Larry hears his theme song, he snaps out of his depression, clip 10. Clip: [13:19] And now, because he loves you like you love him, Barry Sanders! You can't help yourself. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thanks. I currently a little late. I had trouble getting the noose off the chandelier. Sorry. Would you please tell the publisher for me that I've got the final story for my book? Tara: [14:03] And that's it. Except the book comes out, the last scene shows Hank picking it up in a bookstore, flipping to the index, and clip 11. Clip: [14:20] Oh, fuck. Tara: [14:24] So One other difference from our previous two entries is that the character in question actually finishes writing the book, possibly only because Gary Shandling had made a deal to write a book in character. I read it. There is a recap of sorts on Vulture that we'll link in the show notes. Does not include any passages that are read in the episode, which is probably the right call considering the book comes out a year and a half later. The most startlingly prescient bit is in a chapter about Mike Ovitz telling Larry to jump from guest hosting the tonight show to having his own late night show. He said, Start your own show because eventually that's going to be cable and interactive television and the internet. The Japanese will buy Hollywood. The media is going to become so diverse, you need to stake out your little piece of territory right now. I'm like Well, it's pretty on the nose for 1998. Sarah: [15:10] Hm Yeah I think he would, but I was a little surprised that Fraser didn't, or that honestly, that Niles didn't have A whole bunch of books, like started out with one from an academic press, and then because he is Frasier's brother, like that wasn't branded. Tara: [15:13] Not bad. It does fill out Larry's backstory and mentions stories and figures that we know from the show, like the lady who collects. Potato chips that look like presidents, but I would not say it's unmissable, even for big fans of the show, which I am. But if there hadn't been a deal for an actual book, I Still would have pegged Larry as the most likely of our three broadcaster authors to be able to complete the project because he has already. But what do you guys think? Does this scan for the three characters that he would actually get it done? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah: [15:58] more like in universe, I guess is like our brains being broken about like, you know, influencing and brand extensions and stuff here in 2025. Tara: [16:07] Sure. Mhm. Sarah: [16:09] I didn't need to have any more screen time devoted to it, but it was a little surprising that Los Crane did not complete something, even if it was off screen. Tara: [16:20] I mean, if anyone from the show had to get a real life tsunami book, I wish it had been Artie's. I love Artie so much. Cannot be overstated. Sarah: [16:28] Oh god, yeah, I was gonna say, I absolutely want to read that for sure. Dave: [16:32] Yeah. Yeah, you absolutely want the maker, not the star of the TV, when it comes to a book. Tara: [16:36] Yeah. Dave: [16:39] Much more entertaining. Tara: [16:40] Yes, and the and the show knows that too. Like even the little bits of Artie's narration that we get are so much better than Larry's. It's like, oh fuck, that sucks. But just Larry gets it just because he's the star. Sarah: [16:52] Yeah. Tara: [16:53] Artie tries to warn Larry from literally the first scene that writing a book is a bad idea. Can we agree one of the show's great strengths is finding new stories to write about Artie always being right and Larry forgetting that at his peril, Dave? Dave: [17:07] I mean, that's their relationship, right? I, Artie's the fixer, and he, for the most part, is sort of a common collected fixer at that. Tara: [17:09] Yeah. Dave: [17:16] Not all the time. So, I mean, all that tracks, and that's sort of the heart of the show that Larry is insecure about everything and Artie has to be the one who picks it all up and makes it work. So if you had the two books, just to illustrate it by a piece of dialogue in the show, if you had the two books and you actually read them, they were real things. There's a line where Dr. Joyce Brothers, among others, is trying to coax Larry out of the grips room, which, by the way, the sign that says grips written in rope. Tara: [17:47] Yeah. Dave: [17:47] I very much would like to steal that prop. Tara: [17:48] Yep. Yep. Dave: [17:50] But she says at some point, I'm a professional psychologist, and you don't have a large ass, Larry. And he says, Thank you. That would have been in Artie's book if you overheard that, but not in Larry's book. Tara: [18:01] Yes, exactly. Dave: [18:02] So that is the kind of dynamic that they have. Tara: [18:02] Mm-hmm. Dave: [18:05] So, I mean, Artie's book would be much more interesting because Artie is just like top S-tier sitcom characters. He's like, if not one, he's one, two, three. Tara: [18:13] Mm-hmm. Dave: [18:14] Like, he. Is one of my favorites. I can't get enough already. Tara: [18:17] Yeah. Sarah: [18:17] Well, and he would name names too. Dave: [18:17] Yep. Sarah: [18:20] Like this is the you know, Tara and I as charter memoir members of the stupid memoir club. along with our esteemed marginalia expert, Stephanie Early Green, what always ends up letting you down is that the real juicy shit legal stepped on. And Artie would step on legal and just name names and tell the real stories. And there are so many more Hank Kingsley moments. He could have a whole chapter, like him being at the door, like Larry, it's Hank. Tara: [18:54] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [18:55] Hank Kingsley, like, that's just That character is never going to stop giving you like it was a back tooth. I mean, it's so good. Tara: [19:04] It is. Sarah: [19:05] So, yeah, I mean, it's one of those like theoretical projects, of course, that we'll never see, but you almost don't have to. Because you know what would be in it, and it would be brilliant. Dave: [19:16] Even though back in the day when everybody was doing these, you know, he had the Seinfeld book. You know, in the mix and all that, when every comedian or host or whatever pumped one of these out, they were so quick to the bargain table. Like, if this was like the one thing of that time that seemed to have as much of a shelf life as it would now. which is counting in days, if not maybe like one or two weeks at most. So I feel like that was the one thing that they didn't quite capture is that like, yes. They all write it and they all get their money, and it's sort of like an ego boost, and it's like a weird competition point between all these people. But generally speaking, People don't care. One person in your circle buys it, tells you the three juiciest things about it, and that is one purchase for the whole area. You know what I mean? That is sort of like the life. Sarah: [20:05] Yeah. Thus the memoir club. Dave: [20:07] Yeah, that is sort of like the life of these books. Tara: [20:08] Yeah. Dave: [20:10] So that was like the one thing I thought that I wish they kind of brought up to make it feel realer. Tara: [20:16] Yeah. No, it's true. They don't they don't even have the, you know, the staying power of like the Sniglets book that you just keep in the bathroom or whatever. Dave: [20:23] Right. Yeah. Tara: [20:24] Yeah. Dave: [20:25] Because I mean, even these days, right? Like What are those books except internet story fodder? That's like a bullet point of the 10 things from this book you may not have known. Sarah: [20:34] Yeah. Tara: [20:35] Mm-hmm. Dave: [20:35] That's all you need to read. Sarah: [20:35] And yeah. Tara: [20:36] Yeah. Dave: [20:37] Yeah. Sarah: [20:37] You have like some twenty four year old who has been told to do a write around that's like five takeaways from Barbara Streisand's doorstop and then nobody bothers reading it because you had that. Dave: [20:41] Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Except now that person is unemployed, and we just give it to AI, and AI tells you what you need to read. Tara: [20:53] Moving on. Sarah: [20:53] Ugh. Tara: [20:54] Sarah, I think this is the first time Bob Odenkirk is Stevie has come up in the episodes of Larry Sanders that we have watched for various podcasts over the years, since I know Odin Kirk is a fave of yours and all of ours. Sarah: [20:55] Yeah. Tara: [21:05] Were you at least happy to hear as much of him as you got in this episode? Sarah: [21:10] Uh yes, that sort of Almost angry delivery of, I think she might fuck me, is like, that's just this is Odin Kerr's gift, is being able to not only sell that line, but also like, yeah, I don't disagree. Tara: [21:20] Yep. Uh-huh. Sarah: [21:27] She might, but also to be like kind of aggrieved by it or like impatient with it in a line where he's just a tinny voice on the phone, genius, truly. Tara: [21:28] Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'll let you know there is another episode when he dates Janine Garofilo's character that I think is a strong one for people in the woodbone Bob Odenkirk community. Sarah: [21:47] Mm. Tara: [21:47] You see him in just his underwear and it's not bad. Sarah: [21:48] Okay, duly noted. Tara: [21:51] We get some pretty big as themselves guest. Stars here, Dana Delaney, Brooke Shields, Marlee Matlin, Bruno Kirby, and talk show mainstay Dr. Joyce Brothers, who are your picks for MVP, Dave. Dave: [22:04] Oh. I always like Bruno Kirby on the show because he's always angry about something. Tara: [22:07] Mm-hmm. Yes. Dave: [22:09] It's a throughput for his character, and he has a very small role. Tara: [22:11] Mm-hmm. Dave: [22:14] But I, he can't beat the Marley Batten what a cunt line for you know, just impact on this one. Tara: [22:16] Yeah. Dave: [22:20] And, you know, the fact that it's done through the ASL interpreter is just like a chef kiss on comedy timing, you know, because there's this moment where he's like, can I? Tara: [22:26] Mm-hmm. Dave: [22:29] And she's like, go ahead. Tara: [22:30] Yeah. Dave: [22:30] And he's like, what a cunt. Tara: [22:31] Yes. She gets to sign blowjob with a lot of gusto as well. No interpretation needed for that. Sarah: [22:38] I would actually give it to Brooks Shields for the same scene and reason. I've always kind of like been on her side. I think she went through a lot. I think she's also extremely corny in a way that I find sort of sweet. Like, I'm always, I'm always rooting. For her, like if I happened to be stuck watching Suddenly Susan and she wandered through in her like Tiger In t-shirt, I was like, oh, yeah. Good job. But I have always liked that she's willing to just wait in, like to be the bit stealer, and then to be a cunt about it and be like, well, I'm on first, so tough titty. Tara: [23:15] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sarah: [23:20] And Marley Matlin's, hmm, okay, well I know what I think of that, and we'll see if my interpreter passes it along. But Brook Shields maybe doesn't make the best choices. Like, I really feel like she probably could have had something prestige. At some point in the last twenty or twenty five years, but just doesn't whoever picks her scripts is going for how much time do you have to spend on set versus quality, which is totally fair. Quality of life, I get it. No judgments. But It does seem like she's always been willing to just go with it and not worry about embarrassing herself. And, you know, she's still. life left, she could still do that. She could do a, you know, Miran thing on Moe Bland or something like that. But I was reminded that I always enjoy seeing her and that she's always like All right, well, this is kind of a C, but I'm going to throw myself into it. Or I look like an asshole, but I'm going to just do it 100%. Tara: [24:19] Yeah. Sarah: [24:20] So good for her. Tara: [24:21] Now that we have watched all three, which would you say does the best and or funniest job telling the story of writing a book? Dave, as someone who has not written a book, you can go first. Dave: [24:32] I think I like this one the best. Just because it's a little more accessible, because I think we've all read one of these books somewhere in our past, probably just one. You're like, what the fuck? That was a waste of $20 or whatever. Tara: [24:43] Yep. Mhm. Yes. Dave: [24:46] Could have just waited 20 years for AI to figure out what to read. And Of these shows, I love all three of these shows, but if I had to pick one for the desert island, it would probably be Larry Sanders just for the character work and how they develop it over their seasons. Sarah: [25:02] Yeah, I think you're right. I like the Fraser episode, but it was also sort of like I have worked with a sibling, and I have written any books that I've written with my wife, Tara. And this kind of working style is a lot funnier than ours. Ours is just grinding, but. At the same time, it was like, well, that's not that relatable. And also, I'm not like, what is funny about them is their pomposity, but you don't necessarily want to spend time with that. I think with Larry's, you have the best sort of combination of is actually going to get done, is actually going to be fairly entertaining with the references, and like that you can go to the index and see if you're in there and be like, oh, fuck. Bills, no. It just feels like it would be a Dennis Quaid-esque read. And no, thank you. And the Cranes have no work product. So yeah, I gotta go, Larry. Tara: [25:58] With all due respect for me to the news radio, Bill, trying to gloat about overcoming all of their doubts. And the climbing, climbing, climbing. And then Dave telling him, Can we speed this up? Climbing, climbing, climbing, climbing. My favorite part of that episode. Yeah, I agree. Sarah: [26:16] It's very good. Tara: [26:16] This is the best one. It found a new way to tell this story. I feel like the, I got a deal to write a book. Yay. Oh no, it's really hard. Boo. It's like. It's been done, and you know, it was done twice before this that we already talked about. Whereas, this found the new angle on it, which is what happens when you just barf out everything you can think of and then realize. Oh god, I have no filter, and this is going to affect me in my job and in the world. I like that. Plus, they, you know, they were the ones that committed to the bit enough to actually make a book, which you can read if you wish. Dave: [26:51] And that is it for this episode of Extra. Extra hot gray. We finished our three of these featured for 2025 with the Larry Sanders shows the book. We're not done with this year's special club-only coverage, though. Sometime in the back half of the year, we'll be bringing you this month at Historical TV, our once-a-year special episode. Thank you, everyone, for your support. Remember. Clip: [27:17] We're listening. Dave: [27:19] I am David T. Cole, and on behalf of Tara Ariano and Sarah D. Bunting. Tara: [27:23] What a fucking ego. Dave: [27:28] Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time right here on Extra, Extra Hot Great. Clip: [27:45] I don't want to be here either, alright? But I'm a professional. I've managed to keep my mental problems away from my work.