This Week In Historical TV: September 4-10, 1991

Dave: [0:20] This is the Extra Extra Hot Great Podcast, episode 324 of the week of September 4th, 1991. I am Oatmeal Demon David T. Cole, and I'm here with hands-free champagne pour Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah: [0:40] More like Shazampane, am I right? Dave: [0:42] Old one Tara Arellano. Tara: [0:43] Don't even try to spell my name. Dave: [0:45] And magical dance instructor Dan Casino. Dan: [0:49] Tap, jazz, and necromancy. Tara: [0:53] Welcome to Extra, Extra Hot Great for a week. In the past, your pledges unlocked our latest campaign goal, and thus we are doing this bonus bonus episode this week in historical TV. Like the protagonist of the movie we're about to talk about, TV movie, I don't particularly believe in fate, but a couple of weeks ago, So as we're recording this, I happened to pull out the September 6th, 1991 issue of Entertainment Weekly and the September 9th, 1991 issue of People, because both of them had the stars of Beverly Hills, 90210 covers. And we wanted to talk about them for a bonus episode of our sister podcast, again with this, which we did. That dropped September 27th. Outside of the 90210 content, however, both of these magazine issues had extremely positive reviews of an HBO movie called Cast a Deadly Spell. And once I discovered it was streaming on Macs and I remembered that we had a this week in historical TV episode to record, I thought, why not make this weird artifact our lead topic and build the episode around it? So that's what we are doing using the same Wednesday to Tuesday week we always do for the main show. We're looking at the week of September 4th to 10th, 1991 for all of our usual segments except the canon where we loosened up a little. We just looked at the 1990, 1991 TV season. We'll get to it. But for now, let's bring in our guest. He is an American political scientist who somehow made time weeks out from the election to talk to our dumb asses. It's Dan Casino. Sarah: [2:21] Hello, Dan. Dan: [2:23] Hi, Dan. Look, I just spent the last hour lecturing 20-year-olds about Bill Clinton scandals in the late 1990s. And so really, anything we're talking about now is going to be an improvement, I promise. Tara: [2:33] The week we're talking about they hadn't even happened yet, those scandals. Gosh, what a time. We are, in fact, going to talk about Cast a Deadly Spell, in which it's 1948 in Los Angeles, but not exactly the Los Angeles we know. Everybody uses magic and various supernatural creatures like werewolves, vampires, zombies, and gremlins wander around freely. H. Philip Lovecraft, played by Fred Ward, is a private eye who gets hired by wealthy recluse Amos Hackshaw, David Warner, to find his former chauffeur, Larry Willis, and recover a book that Larry stole from him. Hackshaw needs it by midnight two days hence for a conference presentation. Yeah, that's it. How does Larry intersect with Lovecraft's ex, Connie, Julianne Moore, her new boyfriend, Harry, Clancy Brown, and Harry's associate, Mickey, Ken Thorley? What kinds of magical means will kill antagonists during Lovecraft's investigation? And how many monsters will cross paths with Lovecraft along the way? Cast a Deadly Spell was written by Joseph Doherty, formerly a writer on 30-something, who went on to be a consulting producer on both Judging Amy, Sarah, and Pretty Little Liars. And this thing, I didn't notice, was directed by Martin Campbell just a few years before he directed GoldenEye. He would later direct Casino Royale. Dave: [3:54] You can really tell watching this. The poker scene between all the Cthulhu monsters? Tara: [4:00] Sure. Dave: [4:00] A little weird. Tara: [4:01] So if anything I've already said has made you curious, pause this, go watch it on Max. It was an HBO original movie that premiered September 7th, 1991. Let's do the Chen check-in. Dan, should our listeners watch Cast a Deadly Spell? Dan: [4:15] It is charming. Tara: [4:17] Dave? Dave: [4:18] It is charming. And I think if you're also a fan of like WTFB movies, you're definitely going to find a lot to watch here. Tara: [4:26] Yep. Sarah. Sarah: [4:27] Yep. Agree. It's a yes for me, dog. Tara: [4:29] At a certain point, I posited when this is not my shit at all. And I'm enjoying it so much. So it's four for four on Cast a Deadly Spell. So let's get into it. I don't think we were through the opening crime scene before Dave observed that we are in the Roger Rabbit extended universe. and tapes speak on that because I totally agree. Dave: [4:49] Absolutely. I am firm in my belief that Cast a Deadly Spell and all the H.B. Lovecraft stuff that happens within it is also happening concurrently with Who Framed Roger Rabbit. It has a very similar, slightly skewed from our reality vibe to it. There is just the same amount of animation slash old god energy in both of these properties. And they're both share a ludicrousness That you probably wouldn't expect just hearing the words H.P. Lovecraft. But this H.P. Lovecraft story is much closer to Roger Rabbit than it is to say, like, one of his books, I'm guessing, having never read them, but knowing of them. Tara: [5:28] Well, let's put it over to Dan, because I assume he has at least touched on this author. Dave: [5:33] But wait, before we answer it, let me just put this proposal out there. Tara: [5:35] Yep. Dave: [5:36] Having watched Cast a Deadly Spell, I'm under the impression that, let's just say, the writer and director had a 10-minute review by an H.P. Lovecraft expert that answered all their H.P. Lovecraft questions in 10 minutes and then went off to write this, and that's what we got. I don't think this is one for the H.P. Lovecraft heads. Tara: [5:55] Oh, probably not. But Dan, what were your thoughts on that? Dan: [5:58] So actually, there's a lot of kind of deep cuts in here. The gargoyles, for instance, that's one of his least well-known stories. It's not in the Cthulhu mythos at all, but he is the first guy who said, what if gargoyles were monsters instead of just architectural decorations? So there's some of it, but it's very much like you're playing Fortnite and there's an H.P. Lovecraft skin and it just kind of puts that on top of everything that I should do with him. That was reference for the children. So it's not – look, the most H.P. Lovecraft thing in here is the racist depiction of people from Jamaica as giant slave zombies. That's as close as you get to H.P. Lovecraft. It's not Lovecraftian at all. They just use that as kind of a way to process it. in a way, you know, nothing else here is at all Lovecraft. And that's fine because Lovecraft did not age well. And what actually is in Lovecraft is upsetting. Like, you know, H.P. Lovecraft, this is a guy who in the 1930s writing for Weird Tales, the other writers for Weird Tales wrote to him and say, you need to tone down the racism. This isn't cool. Like Robert E. Howard writing Conan's like, this shit's too racist. You can't do this. So he was reevaluated and he was rewritten largely by August Durland and other writers in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s. And so we have now, but this is, as Dave said, this is much more than Roger Rabbit. I actually thought it was closer to Tremors, another Fred Ward popular at the same time. Sarah: [7:17] It could have been just the Fred Ward of it all, but yeah, I had that in my notes. Dave: [7:20] There was a point in time, there was two points in time where I was the world's number one Fred Ward fan. The three days following the adventures of Remo Williams, or the first adventure of Remo Williams? Dan: [7:31] Dave, I believe it's Remo Williams, the adventure begins. Dave: [7:34] The adventure begins. Thank you, Dan. Tara: [7:35] It also quickly ended, I believe. Dave: [7:37] Like I said, for the first three days after that, I was a big fan. Then, you know, on to the next thing. And then years later, again, with Miami Blues, the world's biggest Fred Ward fan for a little while there. He's great. Yeah. And he really does a lot of lifting here. Yes. And with the rest of the cast as well, such as your Clancy Browns, etc. Tara: [7:57] Yeah, I had him in my notes to ask Sarah about, because he was really doing it for me. And Sarah, I know you like a well-seasoned crush, so I was curious about your thoughts on him here as well. Sarah: [8:05] Which one, Ward or Brown? Tara: [8:07] Ward, either. Sarah: [8:08] The fact that this had a sort of buffy, both series and movie, but mostly movie, it had this wit to it. And not lightness exactly, but like fleetness. Like it understood that despite all the pits to hell opening up, it wasn't like it's not that serious. It's going to be fine. And we can do this in an hour and 40, which what a what a refreshing concept. A feature film under two hours, even though it's on TV. But Fred Ward is perfectly cast for something like this because of Tremors, various other things that he'd done, but he just has an ear for like, your character doesn't know that he's in a horror noir, but still, he's great. Julianne Moore is great. I thought she would be annoying as hell. She's perfect in this. I loved seeing Mrs. Scanlon. from every hills down to 210. It had a wit to it, but it didn't take itself too seriously. And I, of course, loved shopping the mid-century sets, even though the clothes managed to still look cheap. Dan: [9:17] For me, this is inverse Tremors, right? Tremors is a comedy, and then the monsters show up and it becomes a horror movie, an action horror movie. And this is a noir detective story, a very over-the-top noir detective story that becomes straight up Looney Tunes whenever you have an action sequence. And so that, and look, if Fred Ward isn't doing his best work, that doesn't work at all. But once you get past the point, we're like, okay, this is going to be Looney Tunes. It's going to be a guy with a shotgun running around shooting grumms like Yosemite Sam. Then, you know, like, yeah, cool. I mean, the sound effects are straight out as, you know, but everything, you know, and that does tend to undercut it. But, you know, horror comedy is a really difficult genre to do. I mean, you shoot for Ghostbusters, but the fail state of Ghostbusters is Howard the Duck. And this actually has almost the same plot, weirdly, as Howard the Duck, in terms of they're summoning this giant monster from the abyss. But because it is clever, because they're not taking it too seriously, and because we actually do understand Fred Ward and Clancy Brown as being in a more serious movie when you're not in the action sequence, I think it works. Dave: [10:19] I feel like the harder edge version of this would be like Drag Me to Hell by Sam Raimi, I think, did it? Dan: [10:25] Yeah. Dave: [10:26] Where it's like horror-ish But also leavened by really ludicrous moments. I feel like that is more of the modern equivalent of what they were doing here. Dan: [10:36] I would say the modern equivalent is Harry Dresden, right? So the Dresden Files novels, it had one season on sci-fi, which is the exact, it's noir detective and there's zombies and werewolves and vampires. And that was never, never worked on TV and this works much better. Tara: [10:48] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [10:49] Speaking of seasons, was anyone else thinking that if this were made a quarter century later, that it absolutely would be a limited series or like part of American Horror Story's? Because the minute that Chiron came up, and I will say this also, they don't really over explain. That first card is like Los Angeles, 1948. Everybody used magic. And then they just get into it. Tara: [11:12] Right. Yeah. Sarah: [11:13] Love that. But then I was sort of like, hmm, like then I kept going back to like mid-century true crime that a serialized like series version of this could have had Lovecraft trying to crack. And it was like, I'd watch the hell out of that. Was anyone else kind of wishing for that? Or is it good that this was like of its era and was contained to whatever, an hour 37? Dave: [11:37] Are you kind of describing Kolchak the Night Stalker a little bit? Tara: [11:40] Yeah. Sarah: [11:41] Yeah, kind of. Tara: [11:42] But I also, as soon as it ended, Max tried to send us to Carnival, probably mostly because of the Clancy Brown connection, too. And that's a similar sort of magic in a weird. Dan: [11:53] Old-timey setting. Which is weird, because there was a sequel to this. There was. Dennis Hopper, during the Red Scare, doing the same thing. Tara: [12:00] Directed by Paul Schrader, I saw when I looked it up. Yeah, I don't... Sarah: [12:06] I'm not sure we could get this band back together, but I mean, okay. Dave: [12:12] I think the foundations of this as a series today would be great. Yeah. If they figure out how to make it funny. Tara: [12:19] Yes. Dave: [12:20] If they don't excise that part of it, which I think would be the compunction for some reason today. Sarah: [12:25] Yeah. Tara: [12:25] The other thing I thought of this morning when we were in terms of like a literary oeuvre turning into a horror show was Fall of House of Usher, which we talked about last year. Although, obviously, that's a lot darker than this. Notice, too, that one of the producers here is Galen Hurd. She worked a lot with James Cameron. She produces The Walking Dead now. I think we would all agree the standards on creature design and execution were not up to the standard we would expect of her now. But Dan already brought up the gremlins. And every time they cut to it in that scene, I laugh. They got me every single time. Dan, talk about the creature design. How did it work for you? Dan: [13:01] I think it is charmingly cheesy, right? If you like that sort of thing, you get in the eyes. Look, if this had been made 10 years later, it would be insufferable. It would have been just horrible CGI. Instead, they're little puppets. And there's a guy in a gargoyle costume doing a little dance. And I think the tonal elements of it becoming a comedy during the action sequences are necessitated by the fact that you cannot take these monsters seriously. I think the Cthulhu monster at the end is probably the best they've got. But, you know, none of it's that great. And so it works in comedy. Dave: [13:31] Was it? the cthulhu monster was the equivalent of the octopus from edward it just sat there and they had to like move it like it was a cthulhu monster it had sort of like this alien's head within a head thing that it ate with and it was just sitting on a giant pitcher's mound yes just not really doing much yeah all the action had to come to it yeah, I thought that was kind of funny. Was that, I'm not sure if that was supposed to be capital C Cthulhu or not, but he wasn't as scary as the Cthulhu. I thought I would be seeing. Tara: [14:02] I felt like I could see that scene in like Wellington paranormal or what we do in the shadows too, where they like, you know, they cut some corners. Sarah: [14:11] The magma vulva just. Dave: [14:14] I enjoyed it for the wrong reasons, but the fact that David Warner had to keep on getting closer and closer to him for no reason. And then got a, was pretty funny. Tara: [14:23] Yeah but we also talked about the wit already i thought the banter was very good the runner about his ugly tie quite a tie put up much of a fight no i snuck up behind it clever the line about order where he orders a bourbon and tells the bartender show it some water but be discreet was mentioned in one of the reviews that was probably the the best joke i thought dan this is your milieu how did you feel about the the hard-boiled 40s-ness of it all i. Dan: [14:48] They were going way over the top but But it fits the tone, right? They're trying to do super over the top, and they did super over the top. So if you're familiar, you understand exactly where this is going from minute one. You're like, well, there's your femme fatale. Well, she's going to betray him at the end. A man has to have principles. I like that they... The magic system, you don't have to explain the magic. We have to explain the metaphor. And the metaphor here is magic is corruption, and he's not corrupt. He's Chandler's detective, one non-corrupt man walking the city. And so therefore, he doesn't use magic when anyone else does. And when he uses magic, he winds up being a bad guy. Great. It makes sense. It works. It's fine. Tara: [15:20] But Dave, I mean, you mentioned David Warner, a legend in this genre. How did he work for you here? Dave: [15:27] He plays the rich guy that needs the book of spells back that is going to unlock the gate between worlds. And he plays that perfectly chrominally. He played the same guy in Tron, Tara. It's basically the same character. Tara: [15:42] Okay. I mean, he also played a real bad guy in Time Bandits, the movie, which I had to rewatch recently. Boo. Dan: [15:48] Sorry about that. The downside of being close to those original tropes is that once a trans character shows up, you're like, oh, this is not going to go well. And that's not even that I wasn't expecting our hero to just beat the tar out of her for no good reason. You're like, oh, that gives a little dignity back after that. I was like, eh. Tara: [16:06] Yes. When you're talking about a movie made in 1991 and set in 1948, like- Could have been worse is kind of the best thing you can say about that storyline. Sarah: [16:16] Yeah. Tara: [16:16] But baby Lee Turgesson. Sarah: [16:19] No. Tara: [16:20] All these babies. This is Julianne Moore before the Fugitive or Shortcuts. Like, this is really early. Dave: [16:26] The one thing about this I didn't understand about the plot was that David Warner's character, this rich old fuck that lives out in the country of L.A., I don't know if I understand where it was, in this English manor outside of L.A., And he has this lifelong ambition to find this book and unlock the world between us and the Cthulhu guys in order to himself be rewarded and turned into a god. And the key piece of the formula is he has to sacrifice a virgin when the door is opened. And he, like, is keeping his daughter around. Why does it have to be his daughter? Dan: [17:04] It doesn't have to be his daughter. Dave, as they say, do you know how hard it is to find a virgin in L.A.? Exactly. It's basically the same plot twist that's the end of The Monster Squad, another very problematic movie from the era. Tara: [17:18] Yeah. Dave: [17:19] Can we talk about the end? Tara: [17:21] Yeah. Dave: [17:21] I mean, okay. Spoiler if you're actually going to watch this. I think everybody here says go for it, but here's spoiler. Dave: [17:29] So during the show, there's this David Warner's daughter. I forget her name already olivia olivia and she is a virgin therefore she can hunt unicorns is what we see her doing with a bow and arrow on horseback yes and she just is like horny toes throughout this whole thing she's been locked up in this mansion dad won't let her go anywhere she just wants to fuck something fred ward's character comes in he's like no can't do it sorry she starts flirting with everybody she sees including this cop that is sort of tailing her on fred ward's request and you know Just keep her out of trouble, please. So Ray, at the very end where she's set up for sacrifice, Cthulhu's like, all right, here we go. And then it's like, like pause at her. It's like, oh, and then like grabs David Warner and eats him instead. Then it's over because he turns out that that cop and her had sex moments before the finale scene here. We're talking about this stupid old detective was a guy who saved the world. And Frank was very excited about the whole thing. That was pretty dumb and funny, I thought. Tara: [18:28] I did that. That's what I do. Dave: [18:31] Because I don't think that ever probably appeared in an H.B. Lovecraft story as the resolution to one of those. Tara: [18:38] But it was good. I don't want to say how much I would pay if I saw a Your Weight, W-A-T-E, and Fate scale at an antique mall, which Clancy Brown's henchman steps on in a bathroom at the train station. But it's a lot. Sarah: [18:52] I also enjoyed the werewolf interrogation. I enjoyed a gargoyle getting kicked in the nards. It's a weird thing to say about this particular property, but it really did seem like the Lovecraft parts of it aside where I think Dave is right and they probably just dipped it in Lovecraft juice or something. like a little you know lovecraft aid i don't know but they they just did that gloss on it but then the rest of the world and like what that would look like in terms of like what law enforcement was or wasn't doing what daily life looked like like even at the police station where like coffee is just stirring itself files pull themselves out of the filing cabinet i thought that was really like thought through to the edges of the frame so to say and that's part of what made me like it it took its own story seriously but it didn't take itself seriously if that makes any sense and that's why it was fun only. Dave: [19:51] Part of the world building that should have been there i thought because in this world that not only rains but it also rains black oil and blood. Sarah: [19:59] And blood yeah is. Dave: [20:01] That umbrella corporation should have been like titans on earth and like. Sarah: [20:05] Umbrellas should cost like a And dry cleaners, for sure. Dave: [20:08] Yeah, exactly. Because there's like nowhere you can go without being totally fucked up if it starts raining. Tara: [20:12] Well, the sequel, Witch Hunt, is on YouTube. Shirley Ralph plays Hippolyta in this one, Lovecraft's landlord. Dennis Hopper, we already said, plays Lovecraft. It has music by Angelo Badalamenti in addition to The Direction by Paul Schrader. So see everyone back here next year for This Week in Historical TV, December 10th, 1994. because that's when it airs yes it's a date, Tara: [21:10] That was a trailer for something that in September of 1991, we had to look forward to, the fourth installment of the Gambler film series. It's called The Gambler Returns, The Luck of the Draw. Kenny Rogers is back as the Gambler, Brady Hawks. And in the premise of this is he meets a bunch of old characters from other TV westerns played by the original actors where possible. There's one who's dead and like they're all getting together for a card game in his honor, the guy from Paladin. Dave: [21:38] It's like Spider-Man with all the other Spider-Mens, but Kenny Rogers. Sarah: [21:43] Right. Tara: [21:44] So you have Gene Barry as Bat Masterson, Hugh O'Brien as Wyatt Earp, Jack Kelly as Bart Maverick, Clint Walker as Cheyenne Bodie, David Carradine as Kung Fu's Kane, who I didn't think he was from like olden times, but all right. Chuck Connors and Johnny Crawford from The Rifleman. Brian Keith is the Westerner. James Drury and Doug McClure from The Virginians. Paul Brinegar from Rawhide. And Reba McIntyre as Burgundy Jones. This is the fourth and not last installment in this franchise. But I did scroll down and see who's in the next one. So we might have to talk about that one at some point, too. But anyways, Sarah, you thought Dave would not hate this. Sarah: [22:22] I do not think that Dave will hate this. I am not sure that Dave will love this, but this seems like the kind of thing that will have in addition to all of these TV Western folk, it will have a lot of like tertiary characters around the margins that Dave will remember from certain episodes of MacGyver or Knight Rider or Dukes or whatever that he'll be like, oh, that guy. And I also think that there's going to be an absolute smorgasbord of 90s Western fonting or like Western fonting of the 1880s as imagined by the 1990s that Dave will just be compelled by the many serif fonts of wherever they film these things in California, outside of Burbank. Turnout spotting. Like, oh, that's where Dylan went over the side. Like it's in every other TV show. So I think that he will not hate this. I will also note that when Duffy is in it, I just think also there's going to be a lot of like baby justified future guest star spotting opportunities. So I think he will maybe not love it, but he will be diverted for a while. Tara: [23:38] Well, if Dave hates this, it'll be because he finds the idea of a superhero crossover team up in this universe corny. I've also never known him to have any particular affinity to Kenny Rogers, either as a musical artist or a chicken roaster. But the other thing is, I don't think Dave knows any of these other shows really that well either. So, like, it says in Wikipedia, every time each new character is introduced, they make a little, you know, they play a little bit of their theme song of whatever show they're from. Dave: [24:10] Yeah. Tara: [24:10] Dave doesn't know any of that shit. Dave: [24:11] He's never watched the shows. The Rifleman! Tara: [24:13] Exactly. Dave: [24:14] No, I'm doing it because I know it. Tara: [24:15] Oh, okay. Well, you know one. But I think outside the bounds of this segment, I do think he would like it a little bit. Dan: [24:21] Wait, before Dave... Dave: [24:23] Yeah, Dan, you want to put some wood behind one of these arrows? Dan: [24:26] I'm just saying. Also, Patrick McNee from the original British Avengers. Tara: [24:31] Right. Dan: [24:31] He's in this. Dave: [24:32] Yes. Dan: [24:33] And if you don't like this, you're never going to get to watch The Gambler 5, which has Mariska Hargitay in it. Tara: [24:38] Yes. And Lonnie Anderson and Sarah. Scott Pollan from 90210 as Bush Cassidy. Sarah: [24:44] Oh, I saw. Tara: [24:45] Okay. Fantastic. Dave: [24:48] I would love to see this formula applied to the shows that I watched in the 80s. because this is basically like pay it forward 30 years, right? Because this is for like people that grew up in the 50s. They're now at the late 80s and they're watching this. And it's all their favorites from the 50s and 60s coming together now as old men. Now, if we did that today, you know, you get like the A-Team and Riptide and Airwolf, Blue Thunder, and they're all in one like movie about, I don't know, stopping the world from exploding. They can do it. I'm there for it, obviously. So I enjoyed the premise of it. The problem is this is a Kenny Rogers made for TV movie. Maybe the execution's not going to be that great on it. I did actually watch some of these shows because they were not because I wanted to, because it was the only thing on channel 29, the Buffalo station, just as you're getting home for lunch, they would show the rifleman. I definitely watched the Virginian. I remember being on, but didn't understand and Kung Fu definitely as well. I've watched a few episodes of that here and there. So I have an understanding of it. So I'm not coming in completely blue. So I'm going to award no wins today. I'm going to say that Sarah is right. The concept is something I'm totally buying into. I just wish it was made more for somebody that was born in the 70s rather than like the 40s or 50s, that kind of thing. Tara is right because I doubt the execution is very good. I started just to skim through the actual video online and it is so long. Oh, it is so long. Tara: [26:16] All right. Well, I'm glad we won't have to watch it. Dave: [26:18] And it looks super cheap. Sarah: [26:19] Two nights. That was like, this was a tough one to argue over like four broadcast hours. That is true. Tara: [26:26] I'll say, Dave, the closest that culture has come to making the show that you actually want is the Expendables movie franchise. Dave: [26:33] Yeah, but that's. Tara: [26:34] They're not playing any of their characters. Dave: [26:35] Right. It's also not winky. Tara: [26:38] It's not enough. Dave: [26:39] Sylvester Stallone doesn't know how to do that. Right. He's just like, he's just playing it straight. Tara: [26:44] And I mean, I think he physically can't ask him more. Dave: [26:47] Hey, I can't put any jokes in that. People were doing big macho man. All right. So the determination is Dave will neither or hate this or love it. So everybody wins. There are no losers today. Dave: [27:08] It's time to go around the dial here in 1991. It is early September. Tara, you're up first. Tara: [27:14] So occasionally I still will see discourse about how the first Avatar movie is a ripoff of both Fern Gully, The Last Rainforest and Dances with Wolves. But what I don't see is that the Inside Out franchise is a ripoff of Herman's Head, but it is. This is a show that premiered September 8th, 1991 on Fox at a time when Fox had about four shows anyone talked about whatever. You might remember it because it was a goofy high-concept sitcom, which was the style at the time. Herman, played by William Ragsdales, is an average researcher at a magazine publisher, recently relocated from Ohio to New York. He has a best friend named Jay, played by Hank Azaria, who is bad with women, or treats them badly, that is. He has a colleague at work named Teddy, played by Jane Sivett, who's always trying to show him up. He has a big boss, Mr. Crawford, played by Edward Winter, who can never remember his name. And in his head, he has Angel, Molly Hagen, Animal, Ken Hudson-Campbell, Wimp, Rick Lawless, and genius Peter McKenzie, who are personified impulses that follow the action in Herman's life and determine how he will react in various situations. Here is a typical example from the pilot. Dave, please play my clip. Tara: [28:39] Herman's dream girl comes in in lingerie. Tara: [29:03] That's all the characters in his head doing the wave, because it's 1991. So I realized the reputation of the Fox network at this time was for being crass and witless and running married with children until nearly the turn of the millennium didn't help. But neither did Herman's Head, which if I may just blow all your Herman's Heads right now, it ran for three seasons. Dave: [29:26] I would have put money on that was a one and done. Tara: [29:29] 72 episodes of this thing. Dave: [29:31] Wasn't Yardley Smith one of the voices? Tara: [29:33] She wasn't one of the voices. She worked with him at his office. over the course of this wikipedia tells me and i will never find out so i'll take their word for it that herman evolved into less of a drip and more of a schemer at work and with women which cool uh i'd never seen this show before probably because the entertainment weekly issue that i mentioned earlier gave it a d minus and on september 8th 1991 i did everything that i was told to by either entertainment weekly or sassy so you can watch this if you want we'll link it in the show notes but approach it as an anthropological artifact not entertainment it was so much worse than you can possibly imagine. Dave: [30:14] All right, Mr. Casino, what have you been watching recently in 1991? Dan: [30:19] So this first week of September 1991, I was actually very, very excited because ABC had just released its preview of the new cartoons. So there was a whole bunch of them. Some of them I was not interested in, like Hammer Man, but other ones. One I was very interested in was called Pirates of Dark Water that was about to come out. It was a serialized fantasy show that I thought was going to be amazing, but a man's reach must exceed his grasp for what's heaven for. It wound up being not at all good. Dan: [30:44] So instead, I'm going to talk about Mystery Science Theater 3000, which was at the time my absolute favorite show. It had just started on Comedy Central, which had just changed over from being Comedy TV, CTV. It didn't have its logo yet. It's all still very, very budge. But this is where the show actually started getting good, became the classic show we know now. That's largely because this episode is Gamera versus Giran. Gamera is a kaiju turtle who has rockets in his legs. So when he pulls into a shell, he can fly, except sometimes all four of them. So he just like is spinning around, but he's going places. He is a friend to children everywhere. And so he basically just rescues children by fighting other monsters and other planets. The movies are terrible. They're also, and this is what's important for the show, very, very short. And so because they're doing this, even though they pair it with a Republic serial about Commando Cody versus the radar men from the moon, they still have way too much time in this episode, which means they have to actually do some good host segments. Up to this point, the host segments had largely been based on Joel Hodgson's previous job as a prop comic, which is the worst type of comic. I'm just going to say it. And this one, because they had so much time, they actually do something else. And they started putting musical numbers in and leading to one of the... first great elements of the show, a big musical number where they try and put lyrics to the really terrible Gamera theme song. Come with lyrics like, and I quote, Gamera is really neat. Gamera is filled with meat. We all love you, Gamera. Dan: [32:13] This becomes a runner throughout the entire episode. At the end, they have about five minutes of a Michael Feinstein lookalike playing the Gamera theme song and talking about anecdotes about Cole Porter. It is wonderful, really the first great episode of the show. The whole thing is available on YouTube, which is wonderful because they actually have the broadcast version with all the original ads, which makes a much better viewing experience than just seeing it. And also means that I actually now really want the discontinued candy, a PB Max, which looks like the bastard child of a Twix and a Reese's peanut butter cup. And oh boy, those look great. Also, AT&T is going to save me a lot of money on my long distance. So while we're checking out, I think the link should be in the show notes. Tara: [32:55] There is. Dave: [32:56] Mystery Science Theater 3000. Every time you hear about it, I'm like, That sounds extremely like my jam, putting myself back here in my 20s. It just didn't exist in Canada, at least not in an easy-to-grab way. So it just passed me by. And by the time I was somewhere where I could watch it, I was just like, it had come and gone kind of thing. Tara: [33:16] Yeah. My first contact with it was the movie. Dan: [33:19] Oh, the movie's real bad. Yeah. Tara: [33:22] It made me laugh. I didn't know any better. Dave: [33:24] You didn't know any better. Dave: [33:28] all right sarah what do you got. Sarah: [33:29] Well speaking of fox content this was slightly more successful i watched parker lewis can't lose uh it wasn't really the season premiere this is actually the fourth episode of season two it's called future shock in which uh the titular parker lewis played by corin nemmick is struggling with what he's gonna do with his future he has designed his whole school schedule to be close to Donna Sue, the love interest. So he's taking like flag football, you know, underwater basket weaving, all that stuff. And of course, his nemesis principal Musso doesn't think that this is a good idea, assigns him a bunch of like AP science classes. It's the usual Parker Lewis quote plot. But I had forgotten my brother watched the entire run of the show. I often was in the room and was like impressed positively by how it just like didn't give a shit and like even if stuff didn't hit it would just keep moving. Sarah: [34:27] And the joke density of this episode was actually pretty good. I had forgotten about that, and I had forgotten it's like utter, confident, surrealist blenderizing of references. And then it's not waiting around for you to be like, are they talking about Johnny Carson? They are. Are they talking about Silence of the Lambs? Yes. Alien, three o'clock high. Not just Dick Tracy, but Madonna's performance specifically. The Pepsi Challenge, Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom voiceovers. Abraham Benrubi's Coob getting bagged and tagged for a measles booster. It is just good enough, completely unserious, and the guest star spotting is out of this world. Vincent Schiavelli as a guidance counselor, sure. Sharon Case as Donna Sue. Andrew Nick's dad on CSI Prime as Rex Houston, speaking of old TV westerns. Rex Houston is a bounty hunter. Principal Musso is cartoon heart eyes at him. And as she's very sexily purring the name Rex, Rex the Wonder preemie lets the boom mic drop into the frame. I realized that this has nothing to do with anything we'd ever said, but I was just like, worlds colliding. Sarah: [35:43] I mean, it's very of its era. This aired September 8th, 1991. Everything from the title card, which is that classic early 90s, like here's a teal triangle here's a yellow squiggle here's a hot pink square that's over part of the the words giant shirts on coronemic tons of gel um I get why this didn't last very long. It didn't need to. I mean, also everybody who was in the main cast, like Billie Jane, Abraham Ben-Ruby looked 30. Like he was the, it was like two years before ER. This was a big grownup. I get why it was canceled, but it lasted just long enough. And I was very gratified that my fond memories of it as this like surprisingly solid, strong b show that was just like whatever that those were um born out i was i was glad to revisit it and i was just as glad to be done revisiting it parker lewis he actually probably could lose i'm not gonna stick around and find out. Dave: [36:48] It's interesting because it actually isn't it provides an apples to apples comparison with the ferris bueller conversion of the movie because this is you know ferris bueller as a tv show and ferris bueller the show obviously also from the movie and ferris Bueller lasted like half an episode and then they killed everybody involved. It was a blood sport. And this one went, had more success. It was definitely a bigger hit. Tara: [37:12] For sure. Sarah: [37:12] One of the creators was also the brain set a question mark behind quality television like Shasta McNasty, The Tick 2001, and Dave Puchinski. Dave: [37:22] Oh, Puchinski. Dan: [37:24] All right. Sarah: [37:25] The chance. Dave: [37:27] Oh, man. Well, good for him for bringing Puchinski into our lives. Dave: [37:32] All right. Lastly, on the Round the Dial, we have Fantastic Facts from CBS. Dave: [37:38] Never heard of Fantastic Facts? Well, there's a good reason for that. It is sort of a Ripley's Believe It or Not-esque show. I'm going to read you the top of the review from the Washington Post from August 1991 by David Mills. A bit of a bitch here, and it's kind of great. For people who thought Ripley's Believe It or Not was riveting television, but too intellectually demanding, CBS offers Fantastic Facts, premiering tonight at 8 on Channel 9. Even by the lax standards of August, it is a trifling network time killer. Inspired by those diligent scholars at Time Life Books and their library of curious and unusual facts, this is true, this half-hour reality series slings trivia at a breathless pace. 13 subjects are crammed into the first episode alone from the mystery of tornadoes to that old standby the flying east indian snake tree plus interviews the daughter of the inventor of celly putty the son of the inventor of the shopping cart and did you know that the designer of the original leotard was a famed 19th century french acrobat named honestly jules leotard Fantastic, yet true. Every word of it, true. Hosted by a man whose very name has become synonymous with mankind's quest for knowledge, Merlin Olson. Fantastic facts is tritely written and cheaply produced, despite Olson's five changes of clothing and locale. Tara: [39:07] Wow. Dave: [39:08] Fantastic. I wanted to watch this so bad after reading that review. Absolutely wiped from society. There is like two mentions on the internet of it. This being one, a listening at like TV Tango being another, there is zero mention of it anywhere else. But it sounds great. I lived for the Jack Palance era. Ripley's Believe It or Not. I absolutely fucking loved it. And knowing that there is this like shitty version of it now really makes me want to watch it. But short of Paley, I think we're out of luck. Dan: [39:40] Dave, you sold with Merlin Olsen. Like you sold Merlin Olsen there. I think at that point he'd found his instrument. so we can, you know, I think it'd be great. Dave: [39:48] Myrtle and Olsen, who, by the way, was on an episode of Kung Fu. So it all comes back around again. Dan: [39:52] Right. Kung Fu, but not Kung Fu, the legend continues. Kung Fu was old west. Kung Fu, the legend continues is in the modern day. No, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't have to. Dave: [40:00] No, it doesn't have to. Dave: [40:07] It is time for the canon, and by time, I mean it is September 1991. As we sit here, we're going to play a little loose with time now in the canon as Tara makes her presentation. Tara: [40:20] Hello! Once we decided we were going to pull the canon or nonac pick for this episode from the 90-91 TV season, immediately a few options jumped out at me. But after screening them, I rejected the Golden Girls where Blanche can't handle that her gay brother has a boyfriend because it was not as impactful as the one where he comes out to her. I rejected the Wonder Years episode where Kevin finds out about his dad's recent work setback because, wow, that show is hornier than you remember, like, instantly in that one. I don't want to see kids getting set off by middle school girls in bikinis, even if they are middle school boys. I was very close to doing a no-knack about the episode of Roseanne where her PMS coincides with Dan's surprise birthday party because I don't think that people who don't get periods should be writing about feeling oppressed by the mood swings of people who do. However. Dave: [41:06] Written by. Please provide that information. Tara: [41:09] It's possible Tom Arnold, that episode's writer, actually was legitimately victimized by Roseanne for reasons he and we only retrospectively realize didn't have anything to do with her menstrual cycle. But ultimately, I decided my best option with season nine, episode 16 of Cheers, Days of Wine and Neuroses. And here is why. Tara: [41:30] Number one, gives Kelsey Grammer a showcase to ham it up. The good old Cheers jukebox is broken and has to go to the shop for repair. Frasier is annoyed that everyone is treating this as a major loss, considering no one ever plays it. He is unimpressed when Sam says it's the perfect Titan location for him to lean on and get approached by women, one of whom rolls up immediately, proving it's true. Frasier is skeptical when repair guy Walter offers the loan of a karaoke machine while he's working on the jukebox, but then Frasier gets a look at the catalog, clip one. When the turn at the mic opens up, Fraser takes it, clip two. Tara: [43:48] One has to wonder if this song is a particular favorite of Grammars. It comes up again in a Season 5 Frasier episode when Frasier's feeling inferior to Clint, Billy Campbell, a new doctor turned host at KACL, only to find out when Clint attempts his own Isn't It Romantic at a party that Frasier has thrown him that Frasier at least bests him as a vocalist. But back to this episode. It only takes a couple of days for Frasier to become not just helplessly addicted to karaoke, but to transition into his lounge lizard era inexplicably in a Disney's Jungle Book cardigan. Clip three. Tara: [45:11] Cheers had a lot of big personalities in its regular cast who served as reliable punchline delivery systems. Frasier's style might have been more of an acquired taste, but character bits like this one remind you why he was the character in whom three wise TV creators saw spinoff potential. Number two gives B.B. Newarth plentiful opportunities to steal her scenes, as she was wont to do. The moment Frasier's sometime fiancé Diane left him at the altar eventually to reconcile with Sam for a while, that could have spelled the end of Frasier's time on Cheers. Instead, he not only stuck around, but got another love interest, Lilith. Very pale, very steady, and very monotone, Lilith is generally even less showy than her husband, Frasier. But having fewer lines just means every time she opens her mouth, she kills. We already heard her one-liner about the psychological underpinnings of Frasier's affinity for show tunes. Here she is, earlier in the episode, chatting with Rebecca about the bridal shower she's thrown her because, oh yeah, Rebecca just got engaged. We're about to get to it, but for now, clip four. Tara: [46:38] Lilith has neither forgiven nor forgotten when Rebecca makes toast. Clip five. I think Karen Walker put it best. Clip six. Tara: [47:34] Number three. It knows exactly what to do with Rebecca in this moment. As previously mentioned, Rebecca's on-again, off-again relationship with billionaire tycoon Robin Colcord has been off again lately because he's been in prison. But now he's about to get out, and in this episode, he sends her a white rose and a proposal that they get married upon his release. Rebecca is overjoyed for a while. Then she gets too drunk on champlain and starts melting down about love, commitment, and her whole stupid, stupid life. After she blows off the next two days of work, Sam goes to check on her and finds out she's basically been drinking the whole time. She readily agrees that marriage to Robin is all she's wanted since they met. She's just not sure she loves Robin enough to spend the whole rest of her life with him. Clip 7. Tara: [49:03] Finally, Rebecca states that she will not marry Robin. Sam stops her celebrating with yet more champagne. Clip 8. Tara: [50:48] She collapses. I can't believe the internet does not already have a screenshot of Rebecca in her robe and stained Yukon t-shirt cigarette lazily hanging out of her mouth after Sam tells her she's repulsive. I can't believe there isn't already a clip of this whole final scene, to be honest. So in order to see how completely Kirstie Alley commits to making Rebecca actually repulsive in this scene, our dear listeners will have to go watch it. This episode was Alley's submission for the Emmys this season. I'm not surprised voters found this performance, possibly just this scene, undeniable. And I hope that you all find it undeniable too. Dave: [51:24] Thank you, Tara. Sarah, why don't you start us off? Sarah: [51:27] I am glad that I got to talk about a Christy Alley episode for the canon. Not that we've never done that before, but that she submitted this for an Emmy and won. I think it's good to remember that she really had an almost impossible job on the show, sort of like coming in, not even to replace Diane, but that's how it was perceived. But also that her character was really, and they did this to Diane too, was like wrenched all around like between sort of like driven and ambitious over to Daffy and. Sarah: [52:02] Cockstruck basically she managed to sort of like encompass all of these apposite things and make the character coherent is not going to be the right word she found that like heart in it and she found that sort of like there's now queers folk aspect of it and really made it sing and it was like an impossible job this is one of a handful of episodes that i would point to as like she is making this actually look because there is a lot of physical comedy and she's sort of really committing to the singing. She makes it look sort of easy and it isn't easy what she's doing. So I'm glad that we got to contemplate this and appreciate it. I think it's also a good exemplar of that you forget that later Cheers was also very good just from repetition of all the things it did well. Like she collapses face down into his arms at the end of that last clip. And then it's credits. Sarah: [53:02] And the show was very good at understanding like we could spin this joke out for another couple of beats, but we're not, they may have filmed it and then cut it, but they were always very smart about that and having an ear for that. And, you know, Danson, of course, a consummate pro, brilliant delivery, is being kind of mean to her, but you don't hate him. There's good Woody moments in this. There's good Cliff Clavin moments in this episode that are not as mean to him. There's a lot in this episode that sort of rewards you having stuck with the show for low these many seasons. But it's also like it's very watchable, I think, for someone who was not familiar with it or hadn't watched it all the way through. And I think that this performance by Kirstie Alley is really something and should be appreciated by future scholars. Let us hear from our guest, Dan Casino. Dan: [54:02] So I haven't watched an episode of Cheers since I watched episodes at the tail end of its run when I was a kid. I have not watched an episode since then, so this was a little worried because I'm like, Robin, I'm like, oh, shoot, I'm supposed to know who Robin is. I'm out at sea here. Tara: [54:17] It doesn't matter. Dan: [54:19] Yeah, I caught up pretty quickly. They make sure to tell you everybody's name on the start of the show. They know what they're doing, they're professionals. I got to say, I was surprised Chris Daly won the Emmy for this. I thought she was the weakest part of this episode. Tara: [54:30] Whoa! Dan: [54:30] I, you know, look, maybe it's just there's a lot of B.B. Newarth in there and I have a type. And so that's fantastic. I thought all the goofiness in the bar was great. I mean, they have multiple jokes with balloons and the lollipop song. I think of Tiny Cannon for Frasier's cardigan, which is – I was studying that cardigan trying to figure out what the heck is going on with that because there's words on one side, but it doesn't look like the lyrics to the song from the Jungle Book. I thought the silly stuff was amazing. The stuff in the bar was great. Kirstie Alley is, you know, she's playing drunk. And it seems to me this is a way to, well, we have to break her up with Robin. How are we going to do it? I don't know. Get her real drunk and say she doesn't actually want to marry him. Okay. Like, it seems like maybe it's an abrupt character shift. I understand they have to do that to her. I really enjoyed it. I was laughing. Look, maybe a little of that's because I had just gotten my COVID shot and I was watching TV in bed for six hours because I couldn't get up. But yeah, I really enjoyed it. I thought Kirstie Alley, I didn't like that quite as much. I thought it was a little one note and thought very abrupt. But the silliness, I thought was fantastic. I don't know how typical that silliness is of them. And if that's the silliness they do every episode, and I'd love to hear from David Tarr about this. If they silliness every episode, then this wouldn't elevate to me because I don't think Kirstie Alley elevated that much. But if this is elevated silliness, then sure. One last point, I cannot believe this is a bar in the 1980s that did not already have a cigarette machine in it. Come on. There had to be a cigarette machine in there somewhere. Dave: [55:55] Yeah, that's a good point. Sarah: [55:56] I think it was in the pool room. Dave: [55:58] Yeah, yes. I enjoyed this episode. Speaking to the Christy Alley bit, this episode does a really good job of a character that was sort of like put through the ringer and coming out the end as something very distinctive from that which came before in Diane Chambers. Because there's always this like, you know, which era of Cheers did you like better? And it's easier to say, you know, you liked it in the original OG era. but this episode really sells this character as something very unique to what came before and that she is sort of like owning everything that they put the character through coming out the other end with an Emmy. Great. I mean, I don't like to say I just disagree but i thought this was really great at christy alley usually the character doesn't have like this much throughput in in in the uh yeah in the plots so they actually close a loop there which is really great for that character the end bit i thought was really funny the height of it for me was the absolute looney tunes-esque turning the lamp on and off bit there was no way to put that in. Just wants to, yes, a visual joke. She just wants to be in the dark. Sam Malone's there just like turning the lamp on so they can have a conversation. She turns it off. He turns it on. She turns it off. He says, click. And then she turns it on and doesn't notice that the light's actually on anymore. Sarah: [57:19] So good. Dave: [57:20] This is more cartoony than a typical episode of Cheers, speaking to your question, Dan. So I think it does feel a little wabbit season compared to the rest of the show. And I did really enjoy that part of it. And the Frasier karaoke stuff was great. Did they ever call back to the Broadway cast album musical lovemaking thing? I feel like they might have. I feel like that sounded familiar for some reason. Maybe just from a rewatch. Sarah: [57:47] Just one of the Benny things that when you get to Frasier and it's like, what? Like his parents, as imagined by Cheers, are absolutely unfucking recognizable by the time you get to Frasier where, for instance, one of them is alive. Dave: [58:01] Yeah. Tara: [58:02] So. Dave: [58:03] I guess the other observation that nobody else made that I will make here is that in this moment in time, maybe it's just because she is disheveled at home, she has extreme Chris Pine face. She and Chris Pine might have the same face. Tara: [58:16] Oh yeah, I can see it. Dave: [58:17] Alright, let's put this to the official vote. Sarah D. Bunting, cheers. Days of wine and neuroses. What say you? Sarah: [58:26] Just as a sort of like, this is a Kiersey Alley appreciation post like there are other episodes that i think you could also use for this but i think this is also like typical enough and it did make me want to keep watching even though i've seen most of the episodes in the series at least twice so yeah it's a yes for me and man do i miss avis on julia bb norris is the best so yes for me. Dave: [58:48] All right dan casino you're sort of like hot and half cool on the other the mcdlt of cheers reviews what is your final determination as the canon worthiness, though. Dan: [58:59] So first off, wonderful presentation, as always, from Tara. Tara: [59:01] Thank you. Dan: [59:02] So if the Cheers experts say this is an especially good episode, who am I to argue? So I'll be a yes on this as well. Dave: [59:09] All right. I'm going to go yes, too. So we'll count it as a sweep. Tara: [59:12] Yay! Dave: [59:17] Which means that Cheers, Season 9, Episode 16, Days of Wine and Neuroses, you are hereby inducted into the Extra Hot Great Cannons. Dave: [59:36] It is September 1991, and it is time to figure out who was the winner and loser of the week. Sarah has that week's winner. Sarah: [59:45] Yes, I do. And it was Jack Wagner, who jumped from General Hospital and a longtime sinecure as Frisco Jones to Santa Barbara for a reported $1 million payday. We learned this from that Entertainment Weekly issue that Tara mentioned earlier. And I believe we also learned in that issue or from Tara Googling around that this was a Hail Mary pass on Santa Barbara's part, that it was like, we need some Frisco content so that we can survive in the ratings. And this did not work. And the soap went off the air early 93. Tara: [1:00:25] Yep. Sarah: [1:00:26] Two. Tara: [1:00:26] Three. Sarah: [1:00:27] So he tried, but he also didn't have to give the money back. So good for Jack Wagner. And that's why he is our winner. Dave: [1:00:34] And Loser of the Week? Tara: [1:00:35] Entertainment Weekly also tells us that Rami Zada is out as the lead of CBS's drama Dark Justice. And when I looked it up, wow, is this show I've never heard of before Dan Casino coded. This is some reading from Wikipedia. Dark Justice is an American crime drama television series about a judge who becomes a vigilante by night so that he can bring high-level offenders who use technicalities to escape the legal system to what he calls Dark Justice. The role of Judge Nicholas Marshall was originated by Rami Zada, but then Bruce Abbott took over for the second two seasons because apparently they shot in Barcelona and then they had to move because of the Olympics in 1992. And the official story was he can't work in LA where we're going to be shooting now. So I was like, I'd never heard of this man, I thought. Did this end his career? Not really. Sarah, he went on to play the cult leader of Sidney's Cult on Melrose Place. Sarah: [1:01:34] Oh. Tara: [1:01:36] Who was named Martin Abbott Disrespectful since Bruce Abbott took over his big break. But anyway, this show that I've never heard of until this week is in part on the Internet Archive. So if you want to check out Duck Justice, we will link it in the show notes. Dan: [1:01:53] Because it is a gloriously silly show. So it's essentially leverage. So he's a judge. And then someone like gets off in his courtroom and then he looks at them and says, justice is blind, but it can see at night, which makes no sense, but that's his catchphrase. And then he dresses up like Lorenzo Lamas from Renegade, like with a big wig and leather biker stuff. And then they, and then, but he doesn't like go beat them up. He in fact then entraps them using these crazy leverage style schemes to admit to their crime him in a way that is, I guess, supposed to be admissible. And then he has them convicted. Tara: [1:02:31] Holy shit. Had you watched this show before or was this research that you did for this conversation? Dan: [1:02:36] No, I definitely watched the show a couple times as a kid. It wasn't on all the time, but it was, yeah, it was wonderful and ridiculous. Tara: [1:02:44] Wow. Well, I'm glad that creator Jeff Freilich got his politics in order because he went on to be an executive producer on Lodge 49, of all things. Sarah: [1:02:53] So, yeah. Tara: [1:02:54] Wow. Dave: [1:02:54] Well, speaking of being wonderful and ridiculous, do you know what time it is now? Tara: [1:02:58] It's not regulation. It sure is. Dave: [1:03:12] All right, this is a non-regulation game time. And today we are playing 19 Questions 1991-1992 TV Season Edition from yours truly. You've all heard 19 questions. You'll be given a subject like object or character. and you can ask me, in turn, yes or no questions about it. If I give you a yes to your question, that means you get to ask another question. If I give you a no, then play goes to the next person. We repeat this until someone guesses the actual TV thing in question and gets one point. The person correctly answers goes first in the next round. All the things come from shows that aired during the 91-92 season, but the thing could be from any part of its run. So if it aired in 91, 92, we're going to pick a thing from it, but that could have been from 1988 or 1997. Tara: [1:04:07] Right. Dave: [1:04:08] All answers in this edition have been abstracted enough that you can attack it from the TV side of things, or if you wish, you can try to get there without TV knowledge. So the answers there have been abstracted enough for that to happen. All right, let's throw it to Piggy to see our order. Dave: [1:04:28] All right so our answer order for the whole game so be ready when the other person gets to know is going to be sarah followed by dan followed by tara we've got 10 items today we've got one speed round equalizer zone worth up to three points are we ready to play 19 questions 91 92 tv season edition yes. Dan: [1:04:47] Let's do it. Dave: [1:04:48] All right we're going to start with Sarah D. Bunting, your first category is software. Software. Ask me a question, a yes or no answer I will give. software software and keep in mind 1991 92 tv season although the answer has been extracted enough that don't need to know anything about the show in order to get there oh okay all right software um. Sarah: [1:05:13] Does the software have a name. Dave: [1:05:16] Yes is. Sarah: [1:05:17] It like a people name. Dave: [1:05:18] Can you explain that like a person's name in the software yeah. Sarah: [1:05:23] Like is the name of the software a person's name like Hal. Dave: [1:05:27] No, it is not. To Dan. Dan: [1:05:30] Is software featured on a show on ABC? Dave: [1:05:34] Dan, the answer to that is yes. Dan: [1:05:37] Okay. Is it from an ABC sitcom? Dave: [1:05:41] No. Tara: [1:05:43] Oh, okay. Is this software that also exists in our world? Tara: [1:05:50] Okay, is it the word processing software that Doogie Howser uses to write his blog posts? Dave: [1:05:57] I will give you that, but can you give me the actual piece of software? Tara: [1:06:00] Oh, it was probably WordPerfect. Dave: [1:06:03] It was WordPerfect, yes. Sarah: [1:06:04] Wow. Dave: [1:06:06] I didn't give Dan sitcom because it's more of a dramedy. It's a dramedy, yes. Dan: [1:06:10] It's a dramedy. Dave: [1:06:11] All right, so first point goes to Tara, which means you will open up our next round of questioning for the category action. It's an action. Tara: [1:06:20] It's an action. Dave: [1:06:20] So it's a verb. Yeah. Tara: [1:06:22] Okay. Is it a high five? Dave: [1:06:25] It is not a high five. Just went for it from the get go. Not a high five. Tara: [1:06:29] Okay. Dave: [1:06:30] To Sarah. Sarah: [1:06:31] Is it a door slam? Dave: [1:06:33] It is not a door slam. Dan: [1:06:36] Is it from a NBC TV show? Dave: [1:06:39] No, it is not. Tara: [1:06:41] Is it from CBS? Dave: [1:06:43] It is not from CBS. Sarah: [1:06:45] Does it make a loud noise? Dave: [1:06:48] Does it make a loud noise? I'm going to say the action itself doesn't make a loud noise. No. But there is a clue in there. Dan: [1:06:57] Is it on ABC? Dave: [1:06:59] It is on ABC. Dan: [1:07:00] All right. Is it on ABC sitcom? Dave: [1:07:03] It is not a sitcom. Tara: [1:07:06] Okay. Is it, it doesn't make an action, a noise itself, but it causes one, it sounds like. So is it like that? Dave: [1:07:13] She said loud noise. Tara: [1:07:14] Oh it makes a noise just not she asked. Dave: [1:07:17] If it makes a loud noise as it. Tara: [1:07:18] Does not make a loud noise okay okay itself um but. Dave: [1:07:21] It did not say it was silent. Tara: [1:07:22] Right okay um is this a okay i'll just say it to confirm it is it a drama show it is not a drama oh okay not. Dave: [1:07:35] A comedy not a drama okay To Sarah. Sarah: [1:07:39] So it is on ABC. Is it something we associate with the credits of this program? Dave: [1:07:48] Not particularly. Dan: [1:07:50] Would the program this is on have been produced by the news division? Dave: [1:07:55] I hope not. No. Tara: [1:07:57] I don't think so. All right. That's a good clue. Okay. So is it a cartoon? Dave: [1:08:04] It is not a cartoon. Tara: [1:08:06] Okay. Dave: [1:08:07] Back to Sarah. It's an action. It's an ABC, not a sitcom, not a drama, not a cartoon. It doesn't make a loud sound itself, but it does engender a loud sound. I think we piece together. Sarah: [1:08:21] Is it pressing the plunger on dynamite? Dave: [1:08:25] No, it's not. Dan: [1:08:30] Is it from Monday Night Football? Dave: [1:08:32] It is not from Monday Night Football. I wouldn't do that to you. Tara: [1:08:35] Is it from any kind of sports show? Dave: [1:08:37] No, it is not. It's a whole big category show nobody's asked if it's in yet. Tara: [1:08:42] Yeah. Sarah: [1:08:43] Is it a competition show? Dave: [1:08:47] Ooh. Technically, yes. Technically, yes. Insofar that there is a competition for something. Tara: [1:08:55] Okay. Sarah: [1:08:58] Oh, is it Jeopardy? Dave: [1:09:00] It is not Jeopardy, no. Sarah: [1:09:02] Okay. Dan: [1:09:03] Dave, is it a man getting hit in the nards on America's Funniest Home Videos? Dave: [1:09:09] It absolutely is, yes. That is exactly the answer we want to get it. Hitting the balls on America's favorite home videos. Yes. All right. Nicely done, Dan. So one point for Dan, one point for Tara. Our next category, we start off with Dan is a place. It is a place. Dan: [1:09:28] Is the place in California? Dave: [1:09:30] It is in California. Dan: [1:09:32] Is it in Southern California? Dave: [1:09:34] It is not in Southern California, no. Tara: [1:09:38] Oh, it's to me. Is it from a drama? Dave: [1:09:41] It is not from a drama. Sarah: [1:09:44] Oh, it's not from a drama? Dave: [1:09:46] No. Sarah: [1:09:47] Oh, gosh. So it isn't Dylan Overdose Lookout Point. Sarah: [1:09:56] Town? Dave: [1:09:57] It is not a town. Sarah: [1:09:59] Not a town. Dan: [1:10:00] Is it a particular building? Dave: [1:10:02] It is a particular building. A particular building is part of it. Dan: [1:10:07] Okay. Tara: [1:10:07] Okay. Dan: [1:10:08] Okay. All right. Is it a restaurant? Dave: [1:10:11] It is not a restaurant. Tara: [1:10:14] So if a building is part of it, is it like a campus such as a college? Dave: [1:10:18] It's more than one building. I'm just going to give you that. Tara: [1:10:20] Okay. Oh, okay. All right. Is it, is the kind of place this is a retail establishment. Dave: [1:10:26] It is not a retail establishment. Tara: [1:10:28] Okay. Sarah: [1:10:30] Is it a hospital? Dave: [1:10:32] It is not a hospital. Dan: [1:10:34] Is it an educational institution? Dave: [1:10:37] Not an educational institution, no. Tara: [1:10:42] Is it a workplace? Dave: [1:10:45] It is not a workplace. Tara: [1:10:47] Okay. Sarah: [1:10:48] It's more than one building. Dave: [1:10:52] Not in Southern California. Sarah: [1:10:55] It's not in Southern California. but it's in California. Tara: [1:11:01] It is in California. Sarah: [1:11:03] Was it in an ABC show it was was that show Twin Peaks no. Tara: [1:11:09] Good guess though. Dan: [1:11:12] Is the location from the Wonder Years it. Dave: [1:11:16] Is not from the Wonder Years. Dan: [1:11:17] That's from California I. Tara: [1:11:18] Don't think they ever say where they are isn't that part of the gag of the Wonder Years Metropolis Okay. Is it, it's not from a drama, so is it from sitcom? Dave: [1:11:28] Yes. Tara: [1:11:29] An ABC sitcom. Okay. Oh, okay. Is it, is it from Full House? Dave: [1:11:36] It is from Full House. Tara: [1:11:37] Is it like the park across the street from their house, their Victorian house that's in the credits? Dave: [1:11:45] What is your answer again? Tara: [1:11:46] Is it the park near the character's house that's in the opening credits of Full House? Dave: [1:11:52] It is not. Tara: [1:11:52] Okay. Sarah: [1:11:54] Is it the block from the credits in Full House? Dave: [1:11:57] Yes, it is. It's the Painted Ladies from... Tara: [1:11:59] Oh, sure. Sarah: [1:12:00] Great. Dave: [1:12:00] It's the Painted Ladies' Roadhouses. Tara: [1:12:01] Good job. Good job. Dave: [1:12:02] You were so close, Tara, but just the wrong camera angle for that answer. Sarah: [1:12:06] Thank you, Tara. I'm willing to share that point with my wife. Dave: [1:12:09] No need. All tied up. So, Sarah, you will lead us with our next category, which is a word from a theme. a word from a theme from a show that was airing in 91 92 season first question i immediately have a guess. Sarah: [1:12:33] A word from a theme. Oh, Jesus. I don't even know where to start. Is that word a noun? Dave: [1:12:44] Yes. Sarah: [1:12:45] Okay. Tara: [1:12:45] Oh. Sarah: [1:12:48] My mind is emptied of nouns except the word fart, which it's not going to be. I hate it. It's a noun. Is the theme from a sitcom? Dave: [1:12:57] No, it is not. Tara: [1:12:59] Oh, then it's not sha-la-la-la, which is what I immediately thought it was. Dave: [1:13:03] All right. Sarah: [1:13:04] That was not a noun. Dave: [1:13:05] To Dan, we know it's a noun. Tara: [1:13:07] True. Dan: [1:13:08] All right. Is it a proper noun? Dave: [1:13:11] It is not a proper noun. Tara: [1:13:14] Was the show on NBC? Dave: [1:13:17] Yes, it was on NBC. Correct. Tara: [1:13:19] Okay. Was it a drama? Dave: [1:13:23] Yes. Tara: [1:13:24] Okay. Tara: [1:13:26] There's no lyrics in the theme song to L.A. Law. That's the only one I can't remember. Fuck. What other dramas were on NBC? Is the word opinionation? That's not right, and it's from Blossom. Dave: [1:13:42] No, it is not. To Sarah D. Bunting. A noun from an NBC drama. Sarah: [1:13:48] Is the word five letters or fewer? Dave: [1:13:52] No. Great filter question, though. So it's going to be more than five letters. Dan: [1:14:00] Is it is the word from the theme to law and order no it is not Chung only. Tara: [1:14:08] A real word. Dave: [1:14:11] Spoken in the theme. Tara: [1:14:14] Was the show in question set in New York I'm really flailing no it wasn't okay. Sarah: [1:14:23] Was the show 30 something no. Dave: [1:14:26] It was not 30 something. Tara: [1:14:27] I didn't have words. Sarah: [1:14:28] But just trying to have something. Dan: [1:14:30] Was the show man and machine? Dave: [1:14:32] Yes. Dan: [1:14:36] Is the word man? Dave: [1:14:39] No. Sarah: [1:14:41] Man with four N's. What are you doing? Oh, no, it's Tara's turn. Sorry. Tara: [1:14:49] Is it machine? Sarah: [1:14:53] Okay. Tara: [1:14:53] Thank you, Dan, because I would have never, ever gotten there. Dave: [1:14:56] Uh i'm not surprised dan got us to the show but i am surprised uh i'm i'm sad we did just watch it yeah i know tara you're up next yep we've got food is the category food food food okay. Tara: [1:15:12] Is it a food from a cartoon. Dave: [1:15:14] No it is not. Sarah: [1:15:17] Is it cherry pie? Dave: [1:15:18] No, it's not cherry pie. Dan. Sarah: [1:15:21] Why not? Dan: [1:15:23] Is it donuts? Dave: [1:15:28] I'm giving it on donuts. Tara: [1:15:31] Incredible. Dave: [1:15:32] We did abstract it, so you could just guess who willy-nilly. It was either an eclair or I would have accepted donut. It is the food that George Costanza eats out of the trash on Seinfeld. Sarah: [1:15:42] Eclair or donut. Dave: [1:15:45] Absolutely fastest point ever in 19 questions. Tara: [1:15:47] Amazing. Good job. Dave: [1:15:49] So you get to go first. Good job, Dan. Palindromic character. Palindromic character for Dan Casino. Dan: [1:15:57] Is the character a woman? Dave: [1:15:59] No. Tara? Tara: [1:16:01] Is the character a human? Dave: [1:16:03] Kind of. I'll let you go again. Tara: [1:16:06] Kind of. Dave: [1:16:07] Yeah. Tara: [1:16:07] Okay. Is the character a cyborg? Dave: [1:16:11] No. Tara: [1:16:12] Okay. Sarah: [1:16:16] I really thought everything was going to be for man and machine on this, but I guess not. So it's a woman, kind of human. Dave: [1:16:25] No, not a woman. Sarah: [1:16:26] Or a lady. Sarah: [1:16:28] Not a woman. Dave: [1:16:29] Not a woman. Sarah: [1:16:31] Is it a man? Dave: [1:16:33] Yes. Not a woman is a man, not necessarily human. Okay. Is what you have so far. Sarah: [1:16:43] Palindromic character um uh is it from a cartoon no. Dave: [1:16:50] Not from a cartoon i. Dan: [1:16:51] Think i got it is it otto is. Dave: [1:16:54] It otto from what. Dan: [1:16:55] I well i was gonna guess the simpsons but he said not cartoon so there has to be another otto because otto is the only palindromic male name i can think of let me tell you. Dave: [1:17:03] Dan is there another otto on tv i'm thinking about no there isn't Is. Tara: [1:17:08] It Bob from Twin Peaks? Dave: [1:17:09] It is Bob from Twin Peaks, yes. Sarah: [1:17:11] Bob! Dave: [1:17:12] All right, we've got three left. Let's get the scores, please. Tara: [1:17:15] It's pretty close. Sarah has one. Dan has two. I have three. Dave: [1:17:19] All right, that means Sarah D. Bunting, you are in the Speed Round Equalizer Challenge Zone. Tara: [1:17:25] Oh, damn! Dave: [1:17:31] You can really get a lot of points here, Sarah. You can get up to three points. You only get one crack at each category. You get one guess. So no yes or no questions. Just you have to go right straight for it. Tara: [1:17:39] All right. Dave: [1:17:40] Here are your categories. Number one, show titles that are also things people say at airports as they say goodbye to the others in their group not traveling. Show titles that are also things people say at the airport as they say goodbye to others in their group who are not traveling. And these are all shows from the 91-92 season. They're airing in that time. Sarah: [1:18:06] Don't forget to validate your parking. Dave: [1:18:12] I'll Fly Away. Tara: [1:18:14] Oh, yeah. Dave: [1:18:16] All right. Here is number two for Sarah. Show titles that are also a description of the kind of business you find yourself drinking a coffee and eating a scone in. but on your second sip, you realize you're just wearing your underwear and your teeth are falling out and everyone is staring at you. Once again, show titles that are also a description of the kind of business where you find yourself drinking coffee and eating a scone but on your second sip, you realize you're just wearing your underwear and your teeth are falling out and everyone is staring at you. Sarah: [1:18:49] Hitchin' Nightmares? Dave: [1:18:50] You're very close. Tara: [1:18:54] Was there a show like Nightmare Cafe or Diner or something? Dave: [1:18:57] Nightmare Cafe is the correct answer. Tara: [1:18:59] Oh my God. Dave: [1:18:59] All right. Still get this last point, Sarah. Show titles that are also Dan Casino's favorite ocean-based show of all time. Show titles that are also Dan Casino's favorite ocean-based show of all time. Tara: [1:19:16] The USA Quiz Show listeners are screaming. Sarah: [1:19:21] Uh atlantis i. Dave: [1:19:23] Don't know tragic what is it. Dan: [1:19:25] Dan oh what is fish police. Dave: [1:19:28] Fish police was the answer we were looking for yes fish police oh right sure all right let's bang out these last three back to tara the category is animal let's bang out this animal is. Tara: [1:19:41] It eddie from frazier. Dave: [1:19:42] It is not good stab. Sarah? Sarah: [1:19:46] Is it? Oh, no. It's too early for the chases. Cat. Is it a cat? Dave: [1:19:50] It is not a cat. Dan: [1:19:52] Is it a dog? Dave: [1:19:53] It is not a dog. Back to Tara. Tara: [1:19:55] Is it a pet? Dave: [1:19:56] It is not a pet. Tara: [1:19:57] Sarah? Sarah: [1:19:59] Is it in a zoo? Dave: [1:20:00] It is not in a zoo. Good question. Dan? Dan: [1:20:03] Is it native to North America? Dave: [1:20:06] Yes. Dan: [1:20:08] Is it from the rodent family? Dave: [1:20:11] No. Tara: [1:20:12] Is it from a cartoon? No. Okay. Dave: [1:20:16] Sarah. Sarah: [1:20:16] Is it the moose from the Northern Exposure Credits? Dave: [1:20:19] It is the moose from Northern Exposure Credits. Tara: [1:20:21] Yes. Well done. Dave: [1:20:23] That means you're first, Sarah, for this new category. Hologram Hall of Fame Achievements. Hologram Hall of Fame Achievements. Sarah: [1:20:34] Was this part of the Max Headroom televisual universe? Dave: [1:20:38] It was not, but fantastic guess. Dan: [1:20:42] Does it involve a rock band? Dave: [1:20:45] It does not involve a rock band Okay. Tara: [1:20:49] Is this from a live action show? Yes Okay, drama? Yes Okay, On ABC? Dave: [1:20:59] No, not on ABC. Sarah: [1:21:03] Was it syndicated? Dave: [1:21:05] No, it was not syndicated Was. Dan: [1:21:08] It on NBC? Dave: [1:21:09] It was on NBC, yes. Dan: [1:21:11] All right um, so NBC drama is it from LA law. Dave: [1:21:19] It is not from LA law. Tara: [1:21:21] I mean I have to ask now is it from man and machine. Dave: [1:21:24] It's not from man and machine once bitten. Sarah: [1:21:30] Hologram hall of fame achievements is this from the credit sequence of a show. Dave: [1:21:35] No it is not. Dan: [1:21:38] Uh, oh, is this the, uh, the quantum leap? Dave: [1:21:43] What's your question? Is this from quantum leap? Dan: [1:21:45] Yeah, no, yeah, sure. Let's start with, is it from quantum leap? Dave: [1:21:48] It is. Dan: [1:21:48] All right. Is it his pal from quantum leap who is a hologram who guides him through and tells him what he has to fix that once went wrong? Dave: [1:21:54] I'm answering yes to that question, but it's not what we want. We want the hall of fame achievement. Dan: [1:21:59] Uh, the hall of fame achievement. Dave: [1:22:01] Hologram, hall of fame achievement. Dan: [1:22:06] It's not enough. Dave: [1:22:07] Just to be a hologram dan okay. Dan: [1:22:09] Right is it when he manages to fix his own life in this in the series finale of quantum leap no he. Tara: [1:22:16] Doesn't does he i thought it ended on a cliffhanger. Dan: [1:22:19] No he fixes al's life but he doesn't fix his own life he never gets home okay. Tara: [1:22:24] Is it the time that um al was in a mental hospital wrapping the alphabet. Dan: [1:22:29] Yeah okay but What's the achievement? Dave: [1:22:32] What's the implied achievement? Tara: [1:22:34] That he created rap. Dave: [1:22:35] That he created rap. Yes. The hologram from Quantum Leap, Al, created rap. Tara: [1:22:40] How in the world could you have gotten to that without knowing anything about the show, Dave? That one does not fit your stated rubric at the top. Sarah: [1:22:48] No. Dave: [1:22:48] Who created rap? Creating rap. Tara: [1:22:51] Okay. All right. Dave: [1:22:53] It could happen. Dave: [1:22:55] One more left. Let's get the scores. Tara: [1:22:57] Sarah has two. Dan has two. I have four. Dave: [1:23:00] All right. So this last one's worth three points. Tara: [1:23:02] Great. Dave: [1:23:03] Yep. Here we go. Last one. We start with Tara again. Tara: [1:23:08] Yep. Dave: [1:23:08] It's an architectural feature. Architectural feature. Show from 91-92 season. Not necessarily from that season. Tara: [1:23:19] Okay. From a sitcom. Dave: [1:23:21] No, not from a sitcom. Sarah. Sarah: [1:23:26] Is it from a famous named building that exists in our timeline yeah. Dan: [1:23:33] Is it from a drama? Dave: [1:23:35] Yes. Dan: [1:23:35] It's on ABC. Dave: [1:23:36] ABC, it is not on ABC, no. Tara: [1:23:39] Is it from CBS? Dave: [1:23:41] It is not from CBS. Doing the 91-92 season is sort of like having a film set before cell phones. You don't have to worry about all the streaming and all the cable services. Sarah: [1:23:55] So it's from a drama. Architectural Feeder. Dave: [1:23:59] Yeah, not CBS or ABC. see um. Sarah: [1:24:03] Okay is it the elevator shaft that rosalind chaise fell down. Dave: [1:24:06] Bam boom sarah wins, Dave: [1:24:13] sarah sarah sarah wins that you rosalind pointy ending bet you didn't see that one coming people that's the power of sarah rosalind chaise machine bunting, all right guys that is it for this historical episode of extra hot great we open the gate between worlds for a look at cast a deadly spell before going around the dial with stops at herman's head mystery science theater 3000 parker lewis can't lose and fantastic facts tara sang the praises of cheers karaoke episode for the canon we crowned winners and losers of that week and And Sarah D. Bunting, the machine, was the winner of this week's 19 questions game time. Next up is the Connie Selica Palm Springs drama vehicle, P.S. I Love You. Remember. Dave: [1:25:07] I am David T. Cole, and on behalf of Tara Arrieta. Tara: [1:25:10] You are not overbearing, but generally have things your way. Dave: [1:25:14] Sarah D. Bunting. And Dan Casino. Dan: [1:25:19] You're kind of repulsive right now. Dave: [1:25:21] Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time right here on Extra Extra. Ah, great.