Making The Grade With Never Change!

Clip 00:01 I can't I cannot do this you have to it's the rules Fuck Fine Dave 00:15 This is the Extra Hot Great Podcast, episode six hundred and nineteen for the week of June 15th, 2026. Clip 00:16 And then I can I have I don't have any other handy Dave 00:27 I am Hot Beer David T. Cole, and I'm here with Applebee's's squatter, Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah 00:33 Those were happy hours. Dave 00:35 Handsome man murderer, Tara Ariano. Tara 00:37 Don't check the ducts at Red Robin. Dave 00:39 And Crib Sheet Creator Brandy Brown. Brandi 00:42 I didn't call anyone. Tara 00:50 Welcome to Extra Hot Great for another week. Joining us, she is a comic and a seed artist that you have heard with us many times. It's Brandy Brown. Dave 00:59 Welcome back Tara 01:00 Welcome back, Brandy. Sarah 01:00 Freddy Brandi 01:02 Hello. Tara 01:03 We are here, unfortunately, to talk about Never Change. In 2008, graduating seniors at North Meadows High School didn't quite finish the whole school year. A tornado caused the cancellation of the last two weeks of school, but now because of an education new deal just passed in whatever state the school is in, New Jersey probably, all those seniors have to return and complete the two weeks of school they missed. including all relevant extracurriculars. The movie was directed by Marty, I'm gonna say shxbo, who has previously directed a bunch of Joe Pera Talks With You and Joe Pera's comedy special, among other credits. Marty also co-wrote the screenplay with John Reynolds, probably still best known for his role in Search Party. Never change exclamation Mark dropped on Hulu June 17th. It is a movie. We are going to talk about all of it. Potentially, let's do the Chen check-in. Brandy, should our listeners watch never change? Brandi 02:01 Never Tara 02:02 Sarah. Sarah 02:04 Uh, absolutely not. Tara 02:05 Dave. Dave 02:06 I don't break this out often, but when I do, I mean it. Clip 02:09 You suck, and you're wasting my time Tara 02:12 It was so bad, yet don't watch it Sarah 02:14 Oh my God, so bad Tara 02:17 Let's discuss though because it is curious. When I saw who made this and the cast, which includes Patty Harrison, John Early, Maria Thayer, Zach Cherry, Joe F Firestone, Gary Richardson, and Roberta Kalindrez, all of whom I love. Brandi 02:31 And Tophur Grace Tara 02:33 And Topher Grace, who is also present. I thought we would be in for something like Romy and Michelle's high school reunion meets strangers with candy. It's not. Brandy, how did this many funny people Fuck up this bad? Sarah 02:43 And then Brandi 02:47 I have notes on a phone and then I had to take a break because I was like I was like yo they really gave me this whole like two hours to watch. Tara 02:57 Yeah, mm-hmm Brandi 02:57 I had to cleanse my palate with the Canon. What if can't hardly wait, but with adults, but not good? Tara 03:03 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Brandi 03:05 It was one of those things where totally I was like, is this going to be completely absurdist and off the wall? And it feels like it was a sketch that went too long. Tara 03:13 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dave 03:15 You know what it felt like to me as far as like the origin of it is that they had a list of comedian friends. They invited them all to an undisclosed location, asking them to bring one loud character. Tara 03:28 Uh-huh. Dave 03:29 And then they would just figure out how to connect them all as they go along. While they're all supposed to be adult students returning to the fold, that's about all the connective tissue this movie has as far as that premise goes. Brandi 03:41 Uh-huh. Dave 03:41 There is a guy that is channeling early Jim Carrey's dumb and dumber head with Kevin McDonald's voice from Kids in the Hall, and he's just in a totally separate movie. from everything else that's happening. Tara 03:54 Mm-hmm. Dave 03:54 Not only that, but his like very loud antics don't really do anything for the movie. Like they set it up. It's like the first thing that really happens in the movie. That he's sort of obsessed with one of his classmates from back in the day. And it like really doesn't play into it that much, except for like a tiny little gag at the end. It was just weirdly unconnected. And then atop of that, there was like one joke that I laughed at in the whole thing. Brandi 04:15 Yeah Dave 04:20 Like I'm not even joking. Tara 04:20 What was it? Dave 04:21 It was the hot beer, just Tara 04:22 Oh yeah. Dave 04:23 The problem was with a lot of the jokes, I could see them being funny in a different movie with a different group of people that had a better sense of comic timing for these little beep beep beep beep moments of comedy, which these a lot of these were. Tara 04:34 Is that anything? Dave 04:35 They're at the diner, they're all drinking their coffee. Every time they take a sip, it's super hot, then they forget and they take another sip, but the timing was all off, like it didn't have that rhythm that made it build. It just seemed like Okay, you introduce me to the joke six times instead of building it five times after the first one. And then later on, in the same kind of thing, somebody takes a sip of beer and is hot as their coffee. That was like the only moat thing that was like, oh, okay, that was good Unfathomably unfunny for who was involved. Brandi 05:02 The characters also totally didn't make sense. Like you look at like the guy who's supposed to be like the football player and I was like, no, you're the weird theater guy or like the debate team. Tara 05:09 Mm-hmm. Brandi 05:11 Like what? And then I thought like the one guy who was like really dumb or had like a concussion or something, he was a f it was totally just all uh honestly impressive that bad Tara 05:19 Sarah has been quiet because we are in a fight. This is the last episode of the podcast. No, Sarah, what it what were your thoughts? Sarah 05:27 I really hated pretty much everything about it Tara 05:30 Mm-hmm. Sarah 05:31 It was very disconnected. People seem to be in different movies except for the part where they're in like a shouting contest. But it wasn't just that it wasn't funny because there were like funny lines in there, but none of it is grounded in how anyone actually has ever behaved. Like there's not a straight man or a believable relatable underpinning of anything. It's just like everything is heightened to a power of ten And then it's also not edited. Like one of the very first gags, if you can call it that, 'cause it's not funny, is the contemporary like the news reports talking about what's gonna happen with this new deal and there's like bullet points on the screen and it says yada yada and then Seinfeld at the end and I'm like, no, that doesn't that doesn't work Tara 06:26 Mm-hmm. Sarah 06:28 We get the reference, but putting it in there is not funny. Go back and do it again, but they didn't Dave 06:33 Real, real Facebook joke. Sarah 06:35 Yeah, nobody wants to wanted to tell each other in this group of funny talented people that doesn't work. And then the good lines just got run over by gigantic bits. And I kept thinking about this movie Uh we put part of it on uh our public access show, Moist Outlet, way back in the day. After Animal House, there were a whole bunch of like eighth generation photocopies of Animal House, and one of them was called King Frat. And this is the King Frat of Can't Hardly Wait Tara 07:06 Well Dave 07:09 Is that the one where the frat's the only surviving member after Lechical and he becomes the king? Sarah 07:15 Uh that's Pizza Fred. Dave 07:16 Oh Pizza Frat. Yeah. Sarah 07:17 Yep. Dave 07:18 Right. My bad. Sarah 07:18 He becomes a giant inflatable Dave 07:19 Alright, so we're watching King Frat. Sarah 07:22 Actually don't do it because that theme song is pernicious pernicious. Dave 07:23 Okay. Sarah 07:27 At a certain point very early in On, I had to accept that this was not going to be good or improve, and then I could sort of do a necropsy on why it sucked Dave 07:36 Yeah Tara 07:37 Yeah Sarah 07:37 And that kept me entertained for another 12 minutes. And then it was still only like 23 minutes in. And I was like, oh my fucking God. So yeah, we are kind of in a fight. Dave 07:47 Yeah, I was actively angry at this movie after about fifteen minutes when I realized oh it's not gonna break out into some sort of surrealist thing or something like that. Like Like this was just the lame setup until it actually hits its gear and it's like you know mad masterpiece or something like that. Tara 08:02 Mm-hmm. Dave 08:02 Never happened. Yeah, this was People trying to do wet hot American Summer and falling incredibly short. Tara 08:06 Yes. Dave 08:07 Like it has all of the trappings of that. The one guy who is he's got this other whole thing with an alien force And again, that doesn't really pay off either. Felt a lot like the meteorite coming to hit the camp and Wet Hot American Summer. Tara 08:21 Yeah, yeah. Dave 08:22 A lot of characters that sort of map more or less with some of that stuff. Except What Hot American Summer congealed also had had two under jokes to this one's two. Sarah 08:32 Mm-hmm. They both had cool ringer tees. Dave 08:35 Yeah. I mean if this was Mag Mad Magazine, this one would be called Blech Snot American Bummer. Brandi 08:42 Yeah. I'm I'm wondering if this was a situation where someone was under uh uh a holding thing and they had to just burn off something. Cause that would actually be funny if they made this. They're just like, look. We need to get out of this deal. We need to make something. Let's just do this shit and get it out of here. Dave 08:56 Yeah Brandi 08:57 Because it it looked when it started, one, when it had the radio thing at the very beginning, I was like, oh, this is gonna be like a s serial killer kind of thing and it had a very like strangers with candy vibe at the beginning. I was like, all right, so this is gonna be weird, but it's gonna like. Sarah 09:07 Mm-hmm Brandi 09:10 go into something dry and then just kept going and going and going. And the other thing, now that you bring up wet hot American summer, I noted this and I go, so I graduated from high school like to my twenty fifth was last year. I Did not go because I was opening for Maria Bamford. But anyway, um I was on uh sweet brag. Sarah 09:26 Oh well. Brandi 09:27 It was I I was actually on live wire. Um but I graduated in 2000 and this felt like it was class of ninety-five or earlier, even class of nineteen eighty. I understand fine, if you just want to pretend cell phones don't exist, that's Cool, I understand, but some of this stuff was one time set in a weird like not just like oh this is a timeless time, but it felt like the eighties. And then or like the early nineties. Sarah 09:50 Mm-hmm Brandi 09:51 And then also these felt like they were written. I had to be like, no, they're how old? They're 35. They're like a decade younger than me. Sarah 09:58 There's also the fact that it evidently hates its characters and is mean to all of them And never mind like inconsistency, bad joke structure, never mind any of that. Why should we care either way when the script has contempt for everyone involved as it should for itself. Tara 10:21 Yeah. Brandi 10:22 That's why I'm working with my conspiracy theory. Here's what I think happened. This is Brandy's conspiracy entertainment industry corner. Tara 10:28 Mm-hmm. Brandi 10:28 I think somebody responsible had an actually a good idea for this. script. They would not make it or they're in a holding deal or it was a situation where they were like any idea you come up with during this duration belongs to us. They did not want to make it with that studio. They did not want it to go to Hulu or something like that. Tara 10:42 Mm, mm-hmm. Brandi 10:44 And they're like, we do not if we can't do this vision the way we want to do it, Fuck you. We're gonna get you something. And we're gonna just burn this script off because there's no other reason why that group of people did that. Tara 10:51 Right. Brandi 10:57 And so I think they were all there for a check. I think that I'm gonna give the writer and the whole cast credit and that congratulations, you fulfilled the goals of the contract, and for that you're all winners. Sarah 11:07 Yeah, and we will never speak of any of it again. I think you're right. Clip 11:15 New fangled stories on my electric story box. Dave 11:21 It is time to go around the dial. First stop, talking about something she's watched on TV recently. Tar Tara 11:26 Well, I wanted to see what else was going on in the TV movie space, so I watched a couple that were recent as well. First, Miss You Love You on HBO.this was written and directed by Jim Rash, formerly a screenplay Oscar co-winner for The Descendants. Also the he is the actor who played the Dean and Community. Andrew Randles plays Jamie, who we meet when he arrives at Diane's fairly remote house in New Mexico. Diane, played by Alice and Janny. Nursed her second husband through Parkinson's and he has just died. Jamie's there to help with funeral prep, even though he did not know Diane or her husband. Diane has a son named Tyler from her first marriage, who's now a fancy war reporter and is overseas while the events of the movie are taking place. And Jamie is Tyler's personal assistant, so basically he is playing Tyler in lieu of Tyler for real. This is mostly a two-hand or with about five other speaking roles. It takes place almost entirely in the house, so it definitely feels like a stage play that was adapted for the screen. Not that thoughtfully, that may be why Alice and Janney immediately feels like she is projecting to the back of the house. She is real angry to start and stays that way for a while. But these two characters being in this awkward situation has been thought through from every angle, including how Jamie would want to ingratiate himself by being extremely professional and also kind of a bitch on Diane's behalf. For example, there's a runner about a plant that Diane's late husband bought that is dying because Jamie can immediately tell she has overwatered it. So when they go to the nursery where the husband got this plant to order the flowers for the funeral, Jamie casually brings up that the succulent isn't doing so well and the owner is so apologetic that she gives them a dis Scout and Diane's like, oh damn. I'm kind of a sucker for movies about acquaintances who have nothing in common, forming unlikely relationships, and both the leads are playing characters they could do in their sleep, but that's not a necessarily a negative. I also watched Office Romance on Netflix. Brett Goldstein co-wrote it with Joe Kelly, one of the co-creators of Ted Lasso. Goldstein also stars as Daniel, a newly hired in-house lawyer at the airline Air Cruise. Jackie, Jennifer Lopez, has somewhat recently taken over as CEO after the retirement of her founder father, Captain Jack. Guys, Edward James almost is in this thing as her father. Sarah 13:45 Okay Tara 13:45 Jackie's getting sued because what it's not important, except the circumstances throw Daniel and Jackie together, and they can't deny their attraction, even though there are impediments to their being together. In addition to the people I already named, the supporting cast includes Betty Gilpin as a best friend in a rom-com who actually gets to be legitimately funny. Tony Plana as a mean board member and Bradley Whitford in his most Billy Madison-esque role since Billy Madison, speaking of movies about people going back to high school. I know the rom com is not a fashionable genre, but I still like them enough to have gone to see you, me, and Tuscany in a theater on opening day. Office Romance is funnier, sexier, and more romantic than that real movie movie. So if you like rom-coms, check it out Though maybe not with younger kids, it is a lot raunchier than you would probably expect a Jennifer Lopez vehicle to be, and that was a pleasant surprise as well. For my plug, I interviewed Katie Dippald about the end of Widow's Bay at the Daily Beast. As we're recording this, that is not up yet, but I will link to my author page there and it'll pop up there probably very soon or by the time this comes out. Dave 14:57 All right, Brandy, what have you been watching? Brandi 15:00 My Mamie got fish, my party got Aster. The Met is still alive, Nixon Five. One of my favorite TV shows, The Gilded Age, aka Hatris, as I call it, if the game hatress was like a show, that's what it would be. Tara 15:15 Mm-hmm. Yep. Brandi 15:18 They just battle with hats. It's incredible. A couple of videos appeared on Instagram, one from Cynthia Nixon and then one from an actress, I forget her name, from behind the scenes when the Knicks won Game Four. They were the black New Yorkers who were doing something and then like little Streeps character. Tara 15:35 Mm-hmm. Brandi 15:36 I'm blanking right now. Tara 15:37 Marion Brandi 15:37 But they were celebrating it. Yeah, Miriam, they were all celebrating backstage and like the guy who's playing the pastor is like recording. So you're seeing this celebration video from Cynthia Nixon and then another video dropped where they're all in the church and it's like the the parishioners or the you know the worshipers are all the black characters and they're just dancing and it's just It's so good. It's just them finding out the Knicks one game for. And those are really, really fun videos. So I would look those up. I don't know if there's more. My favorite character and my favorite actress from that show, Ashley Atkinson, liked my comment. on Cynthia Nixon's Instagram with that poem. So I am not a New Yorker. Tara 16:12 Amazing. Brandi 16:13 I'm in Minnesota, but I just I love it. I love it. It's fun. Sarah 16:17 Mm-hmm. Brandi 16:17 The TV show I'm watching, I always show up with like a a kid show for adults, but Carl the Collector on PBS.it's a show about an autistic raccoon named Carl, who you're not gonna believe this, but he collects things and he's got a lot of neurodivergent friends. I was just watching, I was like, what's going on here? And it's great. I am of the ADHD delegation, but I definitely saw a lot of my friends on that show. And I was like, oh yeah. Tara 16:40 Mm-hmm. Brandi 16:41 Like there's a there's a fox who likes to make beats on her synthesizers. I'm like, I did in fact date a guy. who love synthesizers. Um it's just a really sweet show. Um I wish they would go into more of the adults in this community and like 'Cause I really want to know if like the lion who runs the ice cream truck, if like he's just doing it as his job or if he's really into ice cream like that. Um But it's it's just a wonderful show and they have like two like short episodes every, you know, it's a half hour thing on PBS.i've talked to other people who have actually have kids and they're like, no, this is a great show. I love it. My plug is next week, the 24th through the 27th, I June 24th through the 27th. I am at Acme Comedy Company in Minneapolis. I am featuring for Jackie Cation And yeah, like come on down. Sarah 17:27 Nice Brandi 17:28 There's a link. My my calendar of upcoming events, upcoming shows, I'm podcasts or media appearances. Yes, it is a Google. spreadsheet. Um it's cheaper than a website and easy to update. But um come on down, uh buy some of my buttons. Tara 17:42 Hell yeah. Clip 17:43 Enjoying the Upper War. Dave 17:47 Sarah D. Bunting, what do you got? Sarah 17:48 Glad this is continuing to be a basketball podcast. I sort of accidentally fell into a madman rewatch, like Six weeks ago. It was uh probably right after we watched the cannon pitched episode, the suitcase. I'm not sure exactly how long ago. But I just kept going from whatever point I dropped into. And then I was like, well, I've actually been meaning to rewatch from the beginning for years now, so I'm just gonna go back to the beginning. It's really nice to return to the show over a decade after it ended and almost 20 years after it premiered. Holy shit It's held up quite well. It's still visually stunning. It's still viscerally irritating in some aspects that it intends and others that it doesn't. Sylvia, Diana. But overall it's a much more pleasing or fulfilling experience to watch it marathon style on demand now. without having to wait a week or a year between episodes, not just for that reason, and that you already kind of know how all the various plots and subplots turn out, but because a dozen years ago Every episode was so hotly anticipated, so fraught, so carefully guarded against spoilers and leaks, so closely scrutinized and interrogated textually. But it was like you couldn't just be told the story and enjoy it. Certainly a TV critic literally could not, quote, just watch it. You had to digest it and then hock up an owl pellet of a take ASAP. And I think it was starting to feel that way for civilians also at the time. Once that weight is off, because the show is over, you could just watch it and marvel at the outfits and source the furniture and get up to get a water during scenes you know don't really go anywhere or that involve Glenn shrug that you see what they're trying to do with X or Y character and not have to worry that the wordplay on baby Jean or Jeannie's name is gonna be on the discourse test. It's just a much more fulfilling experience without having to be discourse forward with your reaction. And for what it's worth, the finale stuck the landing a little bit better than I remembered. Even the Peggy Stan thing felt like a last minute, oh shit, we forgot to see this scramble of a scene, but the actors sold it and it's a great show. It holds up, maybe not as Without flaw as we all received it back then, but worth checking out again if you've been thinking about doing that For my plug, there is a major case sale at Exhibit B Books. That's my all-true crime bookshop that lasts until June 20th. Major cases include DB Cooper There will be a link to that in the show notes. What does the cart do at my shop, Dave? Dave 20:35 The cart does the math. Sarah 20:37 Fucking A. Clip 20:39 Ah, true crash. Dave 20:46 Alright, here's what's coming up an extra, extra hug Great this Friday for our club members. It is the June forcening and we'll be talking about the show from, which is one of the just gonna put it up there, maybe three number four for the worst SEO title TV show. Sarah 21:02 Oh, my God Tara 21:02 Yep. Dave 21:03 Under episodes, but still pretty high. Tara 21:04 Mm-hmm Sarah 21:05 Infuriating Yes. Dave 21:07 So poor that I didn't know the show existed until it came on to the foresending list. Tara 21:13 Yep. Dave 21:13 So there you go. Tara 21:14 Well, that bad title plus, it's on MGM Plus. Dave 21:17 Well, there you go. That is available to club members. Go to extrahotgreat. com slash club. A lot more to these episodes, of course. You got ask e-h g. We do not quite winners and losers of the week. Lots of good stuff for you there. And then come back here next week. EHG Prime will be talking about million-dollar nannies. And we're welcoming back Stephanie. Green screen, early green for that one. Sarah 21:43 Yeah, Dave 21:43 Quickly, Tara, what is million dollar nannies and can we afford one? Tara 21:47 Uh, we cannot. Dave 21:48 Okay. Tara 21:49 It's exactly what you think. It's a an unscripted reality show in the Bravo mode. Dave 21:54 Mm-hmm. Tara 21:55 about people who are nannies for very, very wealthy people. Dave 21:58 Million dollars. Oh, they're not actually guarding a million dollars. Tara 22:02 Yes, but it's not actually on Bravo, it's on Freeform, so we'll be able to discuss how that affects what we see, if that makes it better or worse. if it's, you know, a Bravo show that's not actually literally on Bravo. Dave 22:12 All right. Great. I said briefly, let's go. Tara 22:14 All right. God. Dave 22:22 It is time for the Extra Hot Great cannon presenting this week. It is Sarah T Butting Sarah 22:30 Hey, everybody. It's everybody's favorite Buntsy here to present Law and Order Mothership Season 1, Episode 6, Everybody's Favorite Bagman, for admission to the bar in the Extra Hot Great canon. The first reason I think this is canon worthy is that, well, it is the first episode, technically. It wasn't aired that way at the time. It's not ordered that way on the DVDs or on streaming or in reruns ever, but everybody's favorite Bagman was shot as the pilot of Law and Order in 1988. It was bought by Fox, which tagged on a 13-episode order and then booted it to CBS.then it finally ended up at NBC, where Execs decided that this First episode was a little too something gritty, New York-y, to lead off for the series. But you can definitely tell this episode Thing is not entirely like the others. The DA is Alfred Wentworth, not Adam Schiff, and he's played by Roy Finns, not Stephen Hill. Everyone's hair is longer and 80s are. They're at the 36th precinct, not the 27, although both are fictional. The squad room and the ADA nest of offices are a lot more crowded. There's more artsy handheld shit happening. The time between the initial events of the case in November and the beginning of legal proceedings in March is actually credible. And it's the only time Steven Zernkilton, the opening narration guy, was ever in front of the camera here as an FBI Mobile Command Staffer in Clip 2. Clip 24:04 Look at that. Do you believe these guys? Sarah 24:08 So it's canon worthy because it's the answer to a trivia question, or five But it's also canon worthy because it's both atypical and very typical of nineties law and orders as we would come to know them The central case is in fact ripped from a very New Yorkey pastiche of contemporary headlines like the Donald Bannis scandal and ABSCAM and the gangland murders of Wilfred Johnson and Dutch Schultz. Not contemporary, but you know what I mean. George Zunza's Max Greavy is not anyone's favorite. Anything, let's be real, but the rest of the credits cast characters. Chris Noth's Mike Logan, Dan Floreck's Captain Don Cragen, Michael Moriarty's Ben Stone, and his chicken ball, and Richard Brooks's Paul Robinette are pretty much peak law and order prior to Briscoe showing up And as befitting an episode I'm pitching during Pride Month, it has a full rainbow of Hey It's That Guys. Leaving aside the legit names, William H. Macy is an AUSA, credited here as W. H. Macy. Paul Jim Brass Gilfoyle as Busucci Soldier Tony Scalesi, and Trey Nathan Arizona Wilson as Scalesi's attorney. You've also got John Fiori, as yet uncredited as Profacci, although he does get a line Tara 25:24 That blew my mind that he's not even in the credits on IMDB. Sarah 25:28 I know I know. Pookie chill the generation to the bone in reruns, here she's the victim's wife. Tony Award winner Dick Latessa, veteran of several other law and orders, including the tailhook one with Juliana Margolis As the Manhattan Bureau President, Stephen Gilborne, aka Ellen's dad on Ellen, as an ER doc, Ronald Emile Calvay Gutman, who has showed up all over the L and Overse, usually as an orchestra conductor or art dealer, and Tara, Trisha's manager in Fire and Ice on 90210. The Great Sully Boyer, later a show regular is a Raignman Judge Harvey Serkin, but also a Sopranos legend is the shrink who tells Carmela to take the kids and leave Tony. Tara 26:14 Mm-hmm. Sarah 26:25 And last but not least, Steven Perlman, a New York theater stalwart who sadly passed away back in the nineteen nineties. Prior to Bagman, though. Where he's a snarky fellow detective, Pearlman appeared as a pawnbroker on a single episode of ABC Half Hour Soap Loving back in the eighties. on which occasion his character got his ass killed by my husband's character, Spider Smith. Dave 26:49 Yeah. Sarah 26:49 Shoulda knocked it off, sweet cheeks And it's got a surprising number of iconic lines and line deliveries that persisted in the fandom, starting with clip three. Clip 27:01 He's a bad man? Was, if you believe the rumors. This really frosts my cookies, Max. Sarah 27:12 Just an aside here, I know Noth is cancelled, I accept that, and I will continue to, but my fellow erstwhile Loganettes have to agree that original pilot Logan and that foxy, wavy coff Probably need to go in the Widow's Peak, Tiny Canon. El Scorchio, I'm not a crackbot. Okay, sorry. Here's another memorable exchange. People remember Anthony Kay Means' Simonized Malappropping Legal Objection, but they may not recall just how quickly the show started normalizing our heroes, the police. lying to suspects, slapping them upside the head, appropriating AAVE for use as a patronizing bias fulcrum, and making cheesy side bets with each other on how fast they can get a substance misuser to Crack during interrogation, clip four Clip 28:01 Chunk and Gibb don't know nothing. And you ain't got squat on me except for what he said. That's just heresy. The words here say, Simon Ice. Yeah, that's it. And I'd be good for no sake. Hey, shut up. We don't dig being dissed by lightweights. Mike, Mike, he's not being disrespectful. He's just being reflective What are you looking at? Turn around. Eight arrests and he still doesn't get it? Hey Judges help those who help themselves. Going. No, I'm not talking about a year at Spofford. Going. Don't be stupid. Come on. Thank you case on eyes. Sarah 28:52 I said it was a prototypical episode, not that everything in the prototype was awesome. See also Robinette getting maybe three minutes of screen time before he Forced to do the Are You a Black Man with a Law Degree or a Lawyer Who's Black thing at speed in front of his boss for the first of 78,000 times? At least the show acknowledges some of this reality in clip five. Clip 29:16 You the man? We sure are, honey. Sarah 29:20 And in the subsequent scene, when a black suspect's grandmother says it's the first time the police have bothered even bringing a search warrant to search her grandson's room. But this is what post Ed Koch procedurals did when adapting contemporary tri state stories, and still do today, and the show had the ability to make its copaganda seem verite in the good way from the very beginning. And finally, there's Moriarty's horrified line delivery when it becomes clear Scalisi is going to get greased for wearing a wire, clip six. Clip 29:53 I'm not wearing radios. What? You can't hide the wire. This guy's not going to the park. Oh my god! Sarah 30:00 Me opening the fridge to see we're out of Pepsi Zero Sugar. Clip 30:04 Oh, my God. Sarah 30:05 Me hearing the first drops of a rainstorm and realizing I left the car windows open. Clip 30:10 Oh my God. Sarah 30:12 Me seeing that a cat is about to barf on electronics and it's too late to move her. Clip 30:17 Oh my God Sarah 30:18 This is always how it's pronounced. This is only how it's pronounced. I didn't start watching Law and Order until the mid-90s when my then roommate introduced me to the AE evening rock block of reruns. Thank you, Sanjay. So it's hard to say if this episode would have enticed me when it originally aired, or if they were right to move it in the airing order. I can say that everybody's favorite Bagman is very typical of the show in good ways and less good. Well paced, acted, and shot, including a film sequence that ends with Logan garbage can litting a fleeing suspect with a satisfying clang. and it comes in at a watchably lean for its era 45 minutes, and a historic proof-of-concept pilot that eventually turned Dick Wolf into the super producer he is today. Let's hope I acquitted myself well enough in this pitch to get everybody's favorite Bagman into the extra hot gray cannon. Tara 31:12 Thank you, Sarah. Brandy, you selected this from our options. Please start off the discussion. Brandi 31:18 Well, a as a fellow uh frequent guest on podcast, these are their stories. Sarah 31:23 Yes Brandi 31:23 Um yeah, I'm I'm definitely a law and order head. Uh does anyone know what race the kids were? Um I I wasn't clear were they black? No. Because they kept referring to the kids as like the black kids. Like they you couldn't at the point that you established they were black. It was just like that was their title. The black kids. Sarah 31:40 Mm-hmm. Brandi 31:40 The black Tara 31:40 Mm-hmm. Brandi 31:41 They were like, Wait, we arrested the black kids. Oh, okay. And I was so I'm so used to that happening in this like cohort of law and orders. I'm just like But it was a it was an excessive number of saying the black kids, even you know, including ra racism that would always happen. Dave 31:55 Well, Dick Wolf characters are famously colorblind, so it helps for them to say it out loud to give them a reminder. Brandi 31:58 Yes, yes. They're like, oh, what race were they? Sarah 32:00 Uh-huh. Brandi 32:02 I don't see color. Tara 32:02 Mm-hmm. Brandi 32:03 Um, my other favorite game to play when I'm watching old episodes of Law and Order is Was this made before HIPAA? And you can kinda tell. Like I always have to like look up with HIPAA. HIPAA was nineteen ninety six and you can definitely see like a break where they're a little like fast and loose with getting medical information. The other thing is Dan Florig, so he just always looks at age. Like he's always he never ages. Sarah 32:24 Yeah Tara 32:26 Mm-hmm. Brandi 32:26 He he he just always looks like that. That's actually fascinating that this was the the pilot episode. You really can't I mean, except for like, you know, a few cast members here, but I since I that's not like the era I would watch the most, I really didn't notice anything off. Like that's pretty impressive. Uh the other thing about these early, especially season one, is the music. The music breaks or like the They do do it's very there's one episode and I don't know which one it is, but it's definitely like a Chris North early episode where they stop and they have like a dance break, they're like walking off and like the music plays and they have like a Tara 33:00 I know the one you're talking about. Brandi 33:02 And you just see their back and then they just continue and no one speaks of this. Sarah 33:02 Yeah. Tara 33:06 Mm-hmm Brandi 33:06 It's just it's fascinating. Sarah 33:07 Yeah, I know that one too. Brandi 33:08 And then the final thing I will say, and it's a fun thing to watch with especially black actors, an early episode episodes of Law and Order is that like the standard for being a black actor versus a white actor on Law and Order back in the day was so much higher that you would have like true like thespians. Like they would be giving it would be like a background actor and like, hey, uh did you see someone run by? Tara 33:23 Yes. Brandi 33:27 And they'd be like, For I have not seen someone run by. Oh, the tragedy. Just a very, very strong actors. And so like It's fascinating. Do you happen to know why they they went with like why it's aired number six versus you know, what is commonly accepted as one, episode one? Tara 33:46 If I had to guess, I would think it was because the the actual court part is almost non-existent So it's like he it's heavy on the cop half and very light on lawyer stuff. Sarah 33:53 Yeah, that could be There's also a lot of monologuing by Greevy, but that kind of can't be avoided until the show finally killed him off. Brandi 34:05 Yay. I hate him so much. Sarah 34:08 Oh my I wasn't gonna say it, but yes, yay. Brandi 34:10 I hate him. I was like, he when he died, I w actually I was like, yay! My mom's like, what? Just like, why are you so excited? Tara 34:18 Yeah, he's not good. Dave 34:19 You know what I said when he died? Clip 34:21 Oh, my God. Sarah 34:23 Mm-hmm. Brandi 34:24 He frosted my cookies Tara 34:27 One of the signal most law and ordery elements I found was grievy. complaining about this being a media case. Ooh, those dirty journalists, I hate them so much. Sarah 34:36 Yeah Tara 34:38 That was another part of this episode that sort of gets massaged out once it actually is going, which is showing how y people in the law enforcement side can use journalists to their own ends by, you know, leaking some information strategically. It comes up now and then, but like for this to be in what was gonna be the pilot is Unusual. That's another thing that sets it apart from other episodes. It is remarkable though to see how many signature law and order touches and personnel are in place here. I mean, your list was crazy. Sarah 35:11 Mm-hmm. Tara 35:12 I also appreciated that Robinette's kind of no-win professional situation is a significant part of his half of the episode. Like they sort of go back and forth on how much they acknowledge. That going forward, up until I would say he comes back as a defense attorney, that one is a good one. Sarah 35:31 Mm-hmm, that's a great one. Dave 35:31 Also that his tiny little office is smaller than the you've been ousted from Star City, now you have to go work in the basement offices they give him on that show. Sarah 35:40 Yeah. When he gets up to shake their hand, he can't even stand up all the way. Dave 35:44 See that Brandi 35:44 He's definitely in Milton from office space. Tara 35:44 Mm-hmm. Sarah 35:44 Yeah. Tara 35:46 The fire escape assisted chase is fun. Especially I like the touch where Logan starts to pull his gun and then decides against it and just goes with the trash can lid instead. Sarah 35:57 Mm-hmm. Tara 35:58 It's like Okay, that tells me something about this character or what they want me to think about him. Yes, Dave. Dave 36:02 Sure, but it felt like in the moment there wasn't actually somebody hitting that lid. It barely moved. Tara 36:07 Mm-hmm. Dave 36:08 You heard a cadong. Tara 36:10 Yes. Dave 36:11 But like that thing weighs about one quarter of a pound max. It's an aluminum trash can lid. It's not knocking anybody out, but they treated it like it was a manhole cover. I thought that was pretty funny. Tara 36:21 Well, that actor learned trash can combat at Juilliard. Dave 36:25 Yeah. That's right. You know what that guy said when he was right there in front of that lid? Tara 36:28 Yes And that's how I got into Juilliard? Clip 36:32 Oh, my God. Tara 36:33 Oh. Sarah 36:34 That's w absolutely what he said. Tara 36:36 It does suck that the franchise is tainted by Chris Noth. There have been many tiny canon and main canon Things I have m discarded because the people involved are uh should not be i accepted in polite society anymore. Sarah 36:50 Yeah, Moriarty is not much better, honestly. Tara 36:50 But that said he's Sarah 36:54 Although I think he's mentally ill versus a bad dude, but he could be both. Tara 36:56 Perhaps. That said though, you're so right, he's extremely f not as extremely foxy. In this episode, his hair is amazing, and the fact that he is in a little plaid tie, like Sarah 37:05 Yeah. Tara 37:09 From jump, it was also really funny to me. But all of this said, there are many episodes of Law and Order. This is the problem with this franchise, is like you know Dave 37:17 You're right, there are a lot. No, just backing you up. I just realized how many there are. Tara 37:24 There are probably dozens that I would like if someone was like, name ten episodes of Law and Order That You Love, this would probably not be on my list, unfortunately. I see why you picked it, but it's To me, it doesn't rise to the level of other ones that I found, you know, especially memorable or shocking or however you decide what your criteria are for law and order. I do think it's interesting that it's a curio. I would certainly submit that, oh my God, for a tiny canon, but I am not convinced That this should be a canon entry for me. Dave. Dave 37:58 I'm sort of on the same wave, like I loved the rawness of the presentation here. Like I had absolutely forgotten that this is how this show started. It seemed much grittier. Obviously there's shooting on film. That creates a much different feel. How gritty everything was, uh working in that Barney Miller-esque police Precinct instead of wherever they went later to, you know, some set. The shaky cam, the Ford Granada ask looking cruisers. With their baby blue paint still, like all that sort of stuff, very much of his time. I really enjoyed the trappings of it. I kind of wish that could have been carried through to the actual series. I thought that was Something that having revisited it, I feel like they could have followed through for the rest of the series. I would have liked it more. But I get that it's probably twice as expensive as doing it the way they did it. But it gets sanitized as you go along pretty quickly, I guess So I love that part of it. I love the presentation part of it. I wasn't so big on the story for the reasons that Tara is saying. Like you got such a corpus of episodes to draw from, it's hard to compare this one, which is doing a lot of piloty stuff and I agree that that the law part of it didn't really get its due here. But just generally I thought the story wasn't memorable in the way that when you have so much to choose from that I would want. Brandi 39:20 I I wouldn't say what one thing before we vote in defense of this episode from a I know I was making fun of like the black kids, but what this does set up and I don't know a lot about like the other cop shows before this What this does that's really interesting is it does set up how they're going to handle race. And they do some interesting things there where they do yeah, they make, you know, they they say the cliche thing that they keep saying to Robinette. Hey, are you like a you know, a prosecutor or a black man first? But they also m bring up that like, uh, black people can be baddies too, like in power They can be just like basically they acapped a black cop uh right away, uh, with that his mentor and they kind of forced him to see like, oh I'm part of this terrible system, but also like people I trusted who are a part of the black community also like were perpetuating harm. And I thought that that was very interesting. And I also think that it was also, you know, just setting up that hey we're going to make you think like, yeah, these black kids did crime I I think it isn't interesting from a historical perspective, looking at how if you're gonna like line it up with other conflicts of interest or dealing with race from the Not just the sub suspect side, but internally. So I I will g I will give it credit there Dave 40:35 I forgot to mention one thing while we're doing cleanup, which is I always appreciate a Law and Order deli scene Where they're just getting a sandwich or something and they have to interact with the deli guy who's always an asshole. Sarah 40:44 Mm-hmm Dave 40:46 They're never like, I'm glad to see you here. Here you go. They're always got some glib thing to say. So never change law and order. All right, let's put this to the official vote. Brandy, what say you? Brandi 40:56 I'm gonna say yes. Dave 40:58 Tara Ariano. Tara 40:59 A regretful no, but thank you A for the presentation and B for that sound drop because I assume we're gonna be hearing it a bunch. Sarah 41:05 Oh my god, Dave, help me Dave 41:08 What what's Sarah gonna say after I am about to deliver my marginal no vote? Clip 41:13 Oh my god! Dave 41:14 Possibly Sarah 41:15 Yeah Dave 41:16 So that means, unfortunately, but officially, that Law and Order, Season 1, Episode 6, everybody's favorite Bagman. It was close, but not quite in the canon. Clip 41:35 Americans love a winner. Yeah. And will not tolerate a loser. Nope. Dave 41:40 It is time to discover who our winners and losers of the week are Tarahez this week's win-up. Tara 41:47 I do. First of all, I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is and add to my to canon list the one I always refer to, which is Mad Dog, the one with Bert Young. Where he's the rapist who's just gotten out of prison and like McCoy goes crazy trying to basically infringe every all of the limited rights he has. Sarah 41:56 Oh, sure. Yeah. And oh my gad is now Tiny Canon eligible, so let's go. Tara 42:09 There you go. It is. All right. My winner of the week is our friend and past guest, Stephen Fulk. You just heard him in December in our most recent Mullind Dash episode. He is Producing a Netflix series that has spun off from the twenty twenty-four movie Hitman, starring Glenn Powell and co-written by him and directed by Richard Linklater. That was a really Fun movie, and I think it definitely has series potential, so I'm very excited to see what our friend Steve does with it. Sarah 42:34 Is he Dave 42:39 And Loser of the Week. Sarah 42:40 I am also excited for that because uh I can cover it on Best Evidence and that is always a pleasure. Based on a real guy. My loser, unfortunately, is uh Real Housewives of New Jersey daughter Melania Judece, who has been arrested for assault. We don't have a ton of details about that, but in the vulture story there was this quote Maybe we'll get more clarity on what happened in the new season, like sure, but the second thing isn't correlated to the first, I'm sure. Tara 43:04 A word Sarah 43:10 No, Suri! Like, I just feel like some of the Je Jew Dice Lits. Never had a chance. Melania. Chief among them. Like, stop being on TV.get get your child some help. She needs it. Dave 43:23 Well, speaking about getting your child some help because she needs it, do you know what time it is? Sarah 43:28 It's cape time. Dave 43:41 Welcome back to Game Time. This is the fourth of our current season. The scores are Tara with one, Sarah looking to get on the board, value guest leading with two points. Today we are playing Sorkin'ass Names from Erica with a major assist from the EHD Discord team who earns herself an extra credit. Sarah 43:52 Oh, yeah. Tara 43:55 Nice Dave 44:01 Topic of her choosing plus a free shirt. From our store at throughmethods.com. In this game, I will read you a name and you will tell me if this character is created by Aaron Sorgan or from a Aaron Sorkin property. Sports Knight. West Wing, Newsroom, or Studio 60. Those are the four shows we're talking about. A correct answer is worth one point. Every question has an opportunity for a bonus point. If you answer yes, the bonus point is what show are they from? If the answer is no, and it is not from that show, these are from something else, and then you have to tell me what they are from from a multiple choice. All right. So that's it. I'll guide you through it as we go along. Alright, no steel meals because of the nature of the quiz, so let's throw it to PICCI to see our order today. Clip 44:51 We will start with Sarah. Dave 44:53 All right, Sarah, Brandy, Tara is our order. 30 questions, one Gross Earth Equalizer Challenge Zone. Are we ready to play Sorkin'ass Names? Tara 45:02 Yes, I think that's a good idea. Sarah 45:02 Yes Dave 45:04 Okay, starting off with Sarah D. Bunting, I'm gonna read you a character name. You tell me whether it is a Sorkin ass name or it is not, and we will go from there. Clip 45:08 Kind of clean ball, I am on the body and both I want to cut a low clean Dave 45:13 Your name is Harriet Hayes. Harriet? Haze. Nobody can steal your point, so talk it out if you need to. Sarah 45:20 Okay. Um, I feel like I know that name. Um, I'm not sure which show it's from, but I am going to say that it is Sorkin' Ass. Clip 45:27 But then goes with it, I want a dick around. Dave 45:30 You are corrected is Sorkin ass. Now, for a bonus point, tell me which of those four Sorkin shows that that character is from West Wing, Studio Sixty, Newsroom, or Sports Night. Sarah 45:43 I think it's newsroom. Dave 45:45 You are incorrect. Sarah 45:47 Uh yeah. Dave 45:48 Studio Sixty To Brandy, your sorkin ass name is Gina Toscano. Gina Toscano Brandi 46:01 Oh, yeah Dave 46:01 Is that a Sorkin ass name or not? I mean they all are, but was it actually from the Sorkin show? Brandi 46:08 It feels like one and I have the show it feels like, but I don't think it is. So no, it is not a Sorkin property. Dave 46:16 It is. Brandi 46:16 Oh man Dave 46:17 Yeah. Alright, still get that bonus point though. So Gina Toscano, what show do you think that character is from one in four chance here? Brandi 46:26 I'm gonna I'm gonna say newsroom. Dave 46:29 You are incorrect. That was Georgia Fox from West Wing. Tara 46:34 Mm. Dave 46:35 Tara, are you ready for yours? Tara 46:36 Yes, yes, I am. Dave 46:37 Your sorkin ass name is Steve Sweet. Steve Sweet. Tara 46:44 Not sorkin Dave 46:45 You are correct. It is not a Sorkin character. Is Steve Sweet A, an influencer who reviews bakeries in the Pacific Northwest? B the drummer for glam metal band Warrant, or C, a professional poker player known for his dumb cowboy hat. Clip 46:59 Yeah. Tara 47:04 Poker? Dave 47:06 He is the drummer for warrant. Tara 47:09 Good for him. Dave 47:09 He's got a lot of things to say about cherry pie. Sarah 47:10 Good for him Tara 47:11 I was gonna say Dave 47:13 All right, back to Sarah D. Bunting. We've got for you Lath Pierre. Lath Pierre. Clip 47:20 And Kand because our man of the garden gets bombada because our monica and never and one doesn't go out cut down that because our man of the Sarah 47:21 Sork it ass Dave 47:24 No, not Sorgan-esque, but you get opportunity for a point if you can tell me who they really are. Is Lath Pierre, a a character from horror video game Poppy Playtime? Clip 47:30 Cable woke crypto. I complained. I want to go with Temple. I want to cut a cable quick. Dave 47:35 B a barnstorming aviator in the 1920s. Or C, inventor of the e-bike, Lith Pierre. Clip 47:42 I want to go a canoe, canoe. Sarah 47:44 Barnstormer. Dave 47:46 You are incorrect. Clip 47:48 I want you to Dave 47:48 It is a character from Poppy Playtime. Clip 47:49 And both via Lord. Sarah 47:51 Okay Dave 47:53 Brandy, you've got Mike Casper. Mike Casper. Sorkin ass name, but is it from a Sorkin show? Brandi 48:02 Uh I am going to say yes, a Sorghan show. Dave 48:06 You are correct, but which show? Brandi 48:09 Sports night. Clip 48:09 Yeah, just because I like our cards on because I want you Dave 48:11 That was Clark Gregg's character from West Wing. West Wing Tara 48:17 Yes. Dave 48:17 Gordon Gage. Gordon Gage. Sorkin is correct. Yes, but what show? Tara 48:25 Sports night? Dave 48:26 You are correct. Tara 48:27 Oh I do not hello, good for Ted Dave 48:27 Do you know who played him? Ted McGinley. Sarah 48:30 Yeah, the show killer Dave 48:32 Back to Sarah, you've got Ricky Tahoe Clip 48:34 I want to take around the came on both ring. Dave 48:36 Problem with Ricky Tahoe is all the liquid glass all over his interface. Clip 48:38 Oh Dave 48:39 Sucks. Sarah 48:39 Mm. Ricky Tahoe. Dave 48:44 Personally, I like Ricky Sequoia. Alright. Sarah 48:46 Uh Dave 48:47 Is that from a Sorkin show? Clip 48:48 And both can all cause a man cut the woman. Dave 48:49 Certainly a Sorkin-ass name, but is it real? Sarah 48:51 Yeah, it is. Uh, I'm gonna say Sorkin Dave 48:55 You are correct. What Sorkin show? Sports Tonight West Wing Studio 60 or the newsroom. Sarah 49:02 Let's try Studio Sixty. Dave 49:04 You are correct. Evan Handler. Sarah 49:07 Oh nice. Dave 49:09 Back to Brandy. Clip 49:10 I want to go and don't let it go and do it, correct? Dave 49:10 You have Glen Allen Mixon. Glen Allen Mixon. Mixon with an M. Brandi 49:15 It's a s it's a sorkin ass name, but no. Clip 49:16 I am on the water Don't let it go back and go on the bottom game. Brandi 49:19 Not a sorkin show Dave 49:20 You are correct, it is not from a Sorkin Show, is Glenn Allen Mixon, a a player from a 90s baseball video game B a former senator from Vermont or C an Australian serial arsonist Clip 49:31 Oh well, Tara 49:34 Or D, one of the things you can put in your ice cream at Cold Stone Creamery. Dave 49:38 Clint Allen Mixon. Want it, need it, gotta have it. Brandi 49:42 Um, is it C Dave 49:46 No, it's one of the famous American names that a Japanese baseball game tried to come up with Tara 49:52 Awesome Brandi 49:52 Oh, it's also like confusing with Joe Mixon, like or like there's like an athlete, but okay Tara 49:55 Mm. Yep. Dave 49:58 Sandy Whittles Sandy Whittles Incorrect Ashlew Sorkin wanna take a stab here Tara 50:01 Not sorkin. Shit. Brandi 50:04 This is brutal Tara 50:05 Mm Sandy Whittles. I'm gonna say sports night again. Dave 50:11 Newsroom no points. Tara 50:12 Mmm Dave 50:13 Sarah. Sarah 50:13 Oh yeah Dave 50:14 Elsie Snuffin. Elsie Snuffin Sarah 50:20 Jesus. It's like going it's like two sorkin and has come back around to not sorkin. Dave 50:25 Yeah. Sarah 50:27 Elsie's snuffin'. Dave 50:29 LC Snuffin Sarah 50:30 Not Sorkin Ah West Wing Dave 50:32 It is Sorkin'. Alright, what show is Elsie snuffin' from Some Correct, it is the West Wing. Tara 50:42 Hey. Dave 50:43 Any idea who played her? Anybody? Tara 50:45 No, but I do remember that. Dave 50:46 Danica McKeller. Tara 50:48 Oh Dave 50:48 Everybody's favorite mathematician. Right? Brandi 50:50 I'm thinking of Josh Gondelman's bit about the Cruffin in his last special Dave 50:51 That's her? Tara 50:51 Mm-hmm. Dave 50:51 Yep. Tara 50:55 Yep. Dave 50:57 All right, Brandy, you've got Lionel Tribi. Lionel Tribi. Brandi 51:03 Is it a it's a Sorkin property? Dave 51:06 Correct. Which one? Brandi 51:08 Newsroom. Dave 51:10 West Wing, as played by John Larakette. Brandi 51:10 Ah, damn it. Tara 51:14 Yep. Dave 51:15 Tara. Sarah 51:15 All right Tara 51:15 Yep. Dave 51:16 Jack Spaniel. Tara 51:18 Oh my God. Sorkin Okay Dave 51:21 Yes from Newsroom played by Jimmy Simpson Tara 51:25 Studio sixty. Shit. Sarah 51:30 Ah, j'ai mis Clip 51:31 I want to go with and both I want to get a run cut I am on it. Dave 51:32 Back to Sarah, you've got Maverick McNeely. Sarah 51:36 Maverick McNeely. Dave 51:38 Maverick McNeely Sarah 51:38 Uh, not Sorkin. Clip 51:39 I'll buy the code and don't let the walk and walk. Dave 51:40 You are correct. Is Maverick McNeely really a character from children's cartoon show Dino Riders? B, one of the truckers on Ice Road Truckers, or C, a pro golfer who qualified for the US Open as a teenager. Maverick McNeely. Correct, yes. All right, back to Brandy. You've got Sam Donovan. Sam Donovan Brandi 52:10 I'm I'm gonna say uh uh it's a Sorkin. Dave 52:14 It is Sorkin, yes, you are correct. What show is Sam Donovan from Brandi 52:20 I'm gonna say it newsroom again. Dave 52:24 Spart Tonight, William H. Brandi 52:24 Damn it Dave 52:26 Macy, his second appearance on the podcast. Tara 52:26 Yeah Sarah 52:27 Mm-hmm. Speak of the devil. Dave 52:30 Tara, Shandor Alfonso. Tara 52:31 Yep. Not sorkin Dave 52:38 You are correct. Is Shandor Alfonso A. an NHL linesman? B an NPC in Baldur's Gate 3, or C the mayor of Baltimore, Maryland? Tara 52:50 See shit. Dave 52:52 Nope, he he's an N NHL official. Tara 52:55 Oh, okay Dave 52:57 Sarah Hallie Galloway, Hallie Galloway. Sarah 53:03 Sorking Dave 53:03 Sorkin is correct from the show Fuck Sarah 53:07 Fuck. Hallie Galloway is from Newsroom. Dave 53:15 Is it newsroom? Nope. Studio 60, played by Stephanie Childers. Sarah 53:20 Uh well, good for her. Dave 53:23 Alright, Brandy. Tolman Trask. Tolman Trask. Brandi 53:29 Tom and Trash Dave 53:30 Is that a Sargon Az name? Yes, but is it a real Sargonaz name from a real Sorghan show? Tallman Trask Brandi 53:37 Oh yeah I'm gonna say not a sorkin show Dave 53:44 Correct. Tara 53:44 Wow Dave 53:45 Is Tallman Trask A, a former VP at Duke University? B. A character in the Stephen King novel Insomnia, or C, an urban legend out of Portland, Oregon Clip 53:53 I want to go with and I want to go with that. Brandi 54:00 That honestly feels like a Duke name. Clip 54:03 I want to get a work. Sarah 54:03 It really does. Dave 54:03 So A, former VP at Duke, you are correct. Clip 54:04 Because our management, they will go there. Brandi 54:05 Yeah, yeah. Yep. Dave 54:07 Yes. Nicely done Brandi 54:09 Yeah, that's that's Duke Dave 54:11 Alright, this will take us into our scorebreak. Sarah 54:11 Jesus Dave 54:15 It is for Tara. Tara 54:16 Yep Dave 54:16 Your Sork and Ask name is Nancy McNally. Tara 54:21 That's real. That's Oregon. Dave 54:22 Is it real? It is from You are correct. Tara 54:25 That's Anna DeVere Smith from the West Wing. Sarah 54:27 Yeah, it is Dave 54:28 Yes, two points there. It is time for our scores, please. Tara 54:32 Oh my god, it's so close! Clip 54:33 But the button button. Tara 54:34 Brandy has six points. Sarah and I are tied with seven. Dave 54:37 All right, that means Brandy. Brandi 54:38 Oh man Dave 54:39 This could be very strategic for you. You are in the Gross Earth ecological challenge. Tara 54:42 Mm-hmm. Brandi 54:42 Mm-mm. All right. Oh man. All right. Stretch it out. Dave 54:51 All right, usually I make you pick a number, but since this is the West Wing and we know it started nineteen ninety-nine, the same year as we sort of got down to brass tacks on TWAP.i'm going to pick for you the 90s edition Trivial Pursuit Box. Clip 55:02 What does your garage? Dave 55:04 So you have to answer six TV questions, answer three. I'm going to give you two points. Sweep the card. will give you four points. So you can pull ahead here with three good answers. Brandi 55:11 All right. Dave 55:14 The nice thing about this box is that also for each card, you get the year that it is about. So I will read you the year and the question. Brandi 55:20 Perfect Dave 55:22 Okay, here we go. What theater got a multi-million dollar facelift before becoming home to the late show with David Letterman Brandi 55:31 Uh, is it Radio City? Dave 55:34 It is the Ed Sullivan Theater. Brandi 55:34 Damn it. Oh, that's right. Dave 55:37 So, all right. The sweep is off the board, but you need three of these next five questions to get two points. 1993 again. Brandi 55:44 All right. Sarah 55:44 Mist Brandi 55:45 Thank you. Dave 55:45 What ABC police drama was limited to 37 off-color phrases per show upon its 1993 debut. Brandi 55:55 Is it uh NYPD Blue? Dave 55:58 It is, yes, nicely done. 1992. What reality show debuted in New York City with an Angst-ridden cast of Eric, Julie, Heather, Becky, Kevin, Norman, and Andre. Brandi 56:11 Real world Tara 56:12 Hell yeah. Dave 56:13 You are correct. Sarah 56:14 Yeah Dave 56:15 1992, what Seinfeld character is fruit because it makes him a continent, and Ishu's the beach because he freckles. Brandi 56:24 Uh is it George? Dave 56:27 Newman. Brandi 56:28 All right, no. Dave 56:29 Alright, so it comes down to this. You have to get this right to get your two points. 1992. What network was started by Ted Turner to air the Hanna-Barbera collection he acquired? Brandi 56:41 The Cartoon Network. Dave 56:42 The Cartoon Network is correct. You got your two points! Brandi 56:45 Finally an age Finally an age appropriate question from when I was like I was that age. Sarah 56:46 Hey Tara 56:51 Yep Dave 56:51 All right, now you're ahead by one point, and we have uh a little less than half the game to go, so let's get back to it. Brandi 56:54 Hooray Dave 56:57 Back to Sarah D. Clip 56:58 Oh, but I'll be able to do that. Dave 56:58 Bunting, your Sorkin ask name, you have to determine whether it actually is a character from a Sorkin show, is Cord Overstreet. Sarah 57:10 Not a Sorking character. Dave 57:12 You are correct. Is Cord Overstreet A. a character from the movie Dead Poet Society? B an actor from Glee? Or C the author of Harlequin romances? B is correct. She knew that one. Sarah 57:27 Knox overstreet is from Dead Poet Society. Come on. Dave 57:31 Two points. Back to Brandy. You've got Dylan Killington. Dylan Killington. Brandi 57:39 Oh man. Dave 57:39 Real Sorkin character, or just sounds like one? Brandi 57:43 I I'm gonna say it uh Dylan Kellington is a real Sorkin character. Dave 57:49 You are correct. He is, but from what show? Brandi 57:52 I'm gonna just stick with what you're going with newsroom. One day you'll be right. Newsroom. Dave 57:58 Not today. Brandi 57:58 Damn it! Sarah 57:59 Not today. Brandi 58:00 God damn it! Dave 58:01 Studio 60, that was Nate Torrance's character. Tara 58:03 Mm. Brandi 58:04 Oh, that's right. Dave 58:05 Tar. Tara 58:05 Yep. Dave 58:06 Sally Sasser. Tara 58:07 That's Sorkin. Dave 58:09 From play by Yep Tara 58:10 Sports night. Is that Brenda Strong? Sarah 58:14 The Brella's wonderful. Dave 58:17 All right, back to Sarah. Sloane Sabbath. Sloan Sabbath. Sarah 58:21 Sloan Sabbath? Tara 58:24 S A B B I T H Oops, I guess I gave it away Dave 58:24 Yeah. That's right. Sarah 58:27 Oh Dave 58:28 Yeah. Duh. Sarah 58:29 Sorkin Newsroom Dave 58:31 Yeah. From what show? Tara 58:33 You're welcome. Dave 58:35 Tar try not to spell it out. Tara 58:36 I'm sorry Clip 58:37 I want to go and go there. Dave 58:38 Newsroom is in fact the correct answer, yes, played by Olivia Munn. Clip 58:39 I want to go and cut one there. Sarah 58:45 Oh, I don't know. Tara 58:45 The Monster Clip 58:46 I want to get a Dave 58:46 Fact. What do you like better? Adam's family or the Munster? Bartlett Shear is your character name, Brandy. Bartlett Shear. S-H-E-R. Shear Brandi 59:01 I'm gonna say uh not a Sorkin property. Dave 59:05 You would be correct. Is Bartlett Scheer A an actor from the 1954 Western film Johnny Guitar? B a former conductor of the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra. Or C the Tony Award-winning director of a revival of South Pacific. Brandi 59:24 I'm gonna I'm gonna guess um B the conductor Dave 59:30 You are incorrect. He is a director of South Pacific. Back to Tara. Tara 59:37 Yes Dave 59:37 Holly Home. H O L M. Tara 59:41 Not sorkin Dave 59:43 You are correct. Is Holly Home? The first Bach to defeat Ronda Rousey in a pro tournament? Tara 59:50 Mm, mm Dave 59:51 B, a former U. S. poet laureate, or C, an 80s softcore porn actor. Lots of choice. Tara 59:58 Porn Damn sorry to this woman Sarah 01:00:01 I would have said porn too. Dave 01:00:01 First boxer to defeat Rousey. Sarah 01:00:04 Ah, all right. Dave 01:00:06 Sarah D. Bunting! Sarah 01:00:07 Yep. Dave 01:00:08 Simon Styles. Is Simon Styles a real Sorkin ass character name? Sarah 01:00:13 I think yes. Dave 01:00:16 You are correct, but from what show, Sarah? Sarah 01:00:19 Simon Styles. Dave 01:00:21 Cybid Styles. Sarah 01:00:21 Uh mm Buck. West Wing. Dave 01:00:26 Studio sixty played by DL Hugh Hueley. Sarah 01:00:28 God damn you, Studio Sixty. Tara 01:00:31 Right. Dave 01:00:33 All right. Brandy, you've got Percy Fitzwallace Clip 01:00:37 Go with empty flare. Brandi 01:00:38 That feels like a sorkin property. Clip 01:00:38 I want to get around cut. Dave 01:00:41 You are correct. Which one? Clip 01:00:44 I want to go with empty flare, and we want to cut a note. Brandi 01:00:44 Newsroom. Damn it. Dave 01:00:48 West Wing played by Diehard2's John Amos. Brandi 01:00:50 Man Murder She Wrote, John Amos Sarah 01:00:51 John Amos Tara 01:00:52 All right. Dave 01:00:53 That's right. Diehard2's John Amos. Tara 01:00:54 May he rest. Also, suits LA's John Amos, lest we forget Dave 01:00:57 Hmm, that's right. John Amos's parents, John Amos. Tar, Rebecca Wells. Tara 01:01:05 Yes. Dave 01:01:09 Yes, what show Tara 01:01:11 Is this also sports night? Dave 01:01:13 Yes, played by anybody? Sarah 01:01:14 Nice. Tara 01:01:15 Mm-mm. Sarah 01:01:16 Terry Polo Dave 01:01:17 Yep. Tara 01:01:17 Oh, good one, Sarah. Dave 01:01:19 Alright, everybody has one question left, so I'm gonna ask for the scores, please Sarah 01:01:21 Oh my God. Tara 01:01:22 Oh my god, it's still so fucking close. Sarah 01:01:23 Yikes. Tara 01:01:25 Brandy has eleven. Sarah and I are tied again with twelve each. Sarah 01:01:28 Shit. Tara 01:01:28 Shh Clip 01:01:29 That that no that that that's that that that that that's not on that that that that that that's that you need to go and Dave 01:01:29 All right, so anybody's game. Sarah 01:01:29 Good luck, everybody Dave 01:01:32 Here is Sarah's last question Shay Gillas Alexander. I'm happy to spell any part of that for you, especially the middle name Sarah 01:01:43 Could could I just hear the whole name again, please? Dave 01:01:46 She Gillis, Alexander, G I L G E O U S, Alexander. Sarah 01:01:54 Oh ha this really is a baseball podcast. That's not a sword and character. Dave 01:02:01 You are correct, is Shay Gillis Alexander a editor-in-chief of Men's Health Magazine B. A Canadian basketball player on the Oklahoma City Thunder. Or C. Lead singer of the indie rock band, The Wombats. Clip 01:02:18 Kato boat orange bowling bombing cause all bond goes by it. Sarah 01:02:19 Uh, I believe in Shay, but it's B. Dave 01:02:22 You are correct. Brandi 01:02:23 Also a very good actor, a very good actor when it comes to being fouled. Tara 01:02:23 Nice. Dave 01:02:23 Two points Sarah 01:02:25 Yeah, real floppy Tara 01:02:28 Oh, sure Dave 01:02:29 Brandy, last one, Andy Mackinac. Andy Mackinac. Brandi 01:02:36 Can I get a spelling on Mackinac? Dave 01:02:38 Yeah, M A C K I N A W Brandi 01:02:42 I'm gonna say it is a property of uh Aaron Sorkin. Dave 01:02:48 He is a Sarkiness character, yep. From what show Brandi 01:02:52 A newsroom it Dave 01:02:57 No, that was from Studio 60, and it's Mark McKinney, which makes me think that that is Sorkin's Canadian-ass Sorkin name. Tara 01:03:02 All right. Brandi 01:03:05 Yeah. Tara 01:03:05 Mm-hmm. Sarah 01:03:05 Yeah, yeah. Dave 01:03:06 Andy Mackinaw, very Canadian coded. All right, last regulation question is for Tara. Tara 01:03:11 Yep. Dave 01:03:12 You've got Cave Johnson. Cave Johnson. Tara 01:03:16 Not Sorkin Dave 01:03:18 Correct. Is Cave Johnson a host of the wilderness survival show Underground with Cave Johnson? Tara 01:03:28 Okay. Dave 01:03:29 B. Prohibition era bootlegger who worked with Al Capone. Tara 01:03:33 Hmm Dave 01:03:34 Or C the founder of Aperture Science in the video game Portal 2. Tara 01:03:40 Portal two What shit Dave 01:03:43 You're correct. Alright, that's regulation. Brandi 01:03:47 Oh man. Sarah 01:03:48 Wow, holy shit, guys. Dave 01:03:48 Nicely done. I when I saw that question, I'm like, oh that's a good one. Tara 01:03:49 Oh my God. Brandi 01:03:51 Who I was rough Sarah 01:03:51 Yeah Dave 01:03:52 Alright. Probably the only one I knew Let's hear the final scores. Tara 01:03:56 All right Brandy finished so strong with twelve, but Sarah and I, as we have been throughout the game, are tied with fourteen points each. Dave 01:04:03 Oh Alright, this is very exciting. I do have a tiebreaker. Tara 01:04:06 Okay. Dave 01:04:07 I'm going to ask you both to write down your answers because I no longer trust you guys in this sort of game. Tara 01:04:09 Okay. Okay. Dave 01:04:13 Okay, so get a piece of paper, get a writing you know what you did. Sarah 01:04:13 What? Tara 01:04:14 Yep Sarah 01:04:14 What did I do? Dave 01:04:18 I'm like, we're on the honor system to pick a number and then lock yourself in. Sarah 01:04:18 No, I don't Tara 01:04:19 No, he means me. Clip 01:04:20 I want to go in and go on the code and I want to go back and Tara 01:04:21 Yeah. Dave 01:04:23 And then when I go to ask you your turn, you're like Uh uh. Either you say the number right away or you're bullshitting me. Tara 01:04:30 He I'm sure he doesn't mean you. Dave 01:04:30 That's why we're writing things down now. I don't want to hear it. That's the way it's working now. Tara 01:04:35 I'm sure he means me. Dave 01:04:35 I'm sure I don't mean anybody on this podcast now. Sarah 01:04:36 I'm sure he doesn't also Brandi 01:04:39 I'm also gonna play just for fun. Dave 01:04:39 Silence! Silence! Alright, Utah is is going. I'm going to read you a question you have to answer closest to the pin will win. Here we go. Over all four shows, how many main credits characters Have first and last names that start with the same letter. Clip 01:04:57 I want to go with it. Dave 01:04:59 So how many alliterative character names based on the opening credit actor names do we have across those four shows? Clip 01:04:59 I want to go to the colour. I want to go with it. I want it to work. Dave 01:05:08 Write down your answer. Tara 01:05:09 Okay, I've written it down. Dave 01:05:11 Thank you. And once everybody's locked in, thank you. Sarah 01:05:12 I have also written it down. Dave 01:05:15 All right, we're gonna start with Sarah D. Bunting How many alliterative character names do we have across all the shows we've been talking about today? Hit me. Sarah 01:05:26 Eleven Dave 01:05:27 Eleven Tara. Tara 01:05:29 Six. Dave 01:05:30 Six. I'm here to tell you that the answer was Tara 01:05:32 Oh, wait, Brandy also wanted to play. Brandi 01:05:34 Wait, so is it across the the questions we had? I just put ninety-seven for like the shows. Dave 01:05:40 Ninety-seven. Brandi 01:05:41 For like all the shows Dave 01:05:43 Well hang on, I gotta I gotta redo my math. Tara 01:05:43 Yeah, no sh that would be high for opening credits cast. Dave 01:05:47 Ninety-seven Seems to be the furthest away from the pin. Alright, the answer was from West Wing. We had Sam Seaborn, CJ Craig. From Newsroom, we got Mackenzie McHale and Sloan Sabbath. Tara 01:05:59 Right, right. Dave 01:06:02 And from Studio 60, we had Simon Stiles and Harriet Hayes. The answer: Bullseye 6. Tara 01:06:09 Oh Damn Sarah 01:06:10 Wow. Wait, you only said three shows though Clip 01:06:17 Tara. Dave 01:06:18 There's none in the other one. Sarah 01:06:19 Oh, okay. Dave 01:06:20 Yeah Sarah 01:06:20 Good job, Tara. Tara 01:06:21 Thanks, good job to you as well. Good job to us all. Sarah 01:06:24 Thank you. Defend my honor after this record, please. Dave 01:06:27 That was a fun game. Thank you very much. I I really like that one. Sarah 01:06:29 It was. Dave 01:06:31 Alright, guys, that is It for another episode of Extra Hot Great. We were placed in TV detention and forced to watch Never Change before going around the dial. What would you rather watch? Never change for a second time or the what's his nuts Dick Tracy keeping the rights thing. Tara 01:06:45 Oh Oh, the Warren Beatty thing? Dave 01:06:50 The Warren Beatty Dick Tracy special Tara 01:06:52 Oh, I mean that one is shorter, so I guess that. Dave 01:06:55 It's true. Sarah 01:06:55 Yeah, that mm hmm Tara 01:06:56 Mm-hmm Dave 01:06:56 That's the answer. That is amazing. Before going around the dial, we'll stop at Miss You Love You, Office Romance, The Gilded Age, Carl the Collector, and Mad Men Sarah couldn't bag a cannon for the intended Law and Order pilot. We crowned winners and losers of the week. And Tara was the winner of this week's Sorcony Game Time from Erica. Next up, it's from in the June force inning pool on Extra Extra Hot Great. Remember. Clip 01:07:27 We're listening. Dave 01:07:29 I am David Teagle and on behalf of Tara Ariano, Sarah D. Tara 01:07:32 What am I, Karnak? Dave 01:07:35 Bunting. Sarah 01:07:36 Oh, my God Dave 01:07:37 Hey, Brandy Brown. Brandi 01:07:39 I too have a sorkin ass name. Dave 01:07:41 Mm-hmm. Hmm. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time right here on Extra Hawk Red. Clip 01:07:55 You know what they're saying about you? You know I don't listen when people speak. Oh my god