Putting Out The Paper

Clip 00:00 What? Do you see what I'm saying? I you just I want to find them. I want to find them and and and grab them and just Explain to them how funny it is, the whole scenario, how amusing it is to me. Dave 00:21 This is the Extra Hawk Rate Podcast, episode 579 for the week of September 8, 2025. I am weird but good photographer David T. Cole, and I'm here with Garbage Cook Ate Nonsense, Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah 00:41 Your mom's a one simple trick. Dave 00:43 Sales God at softyshicago. com, Tara Ariano. Tara 00:46 I'm like if bottle service was a person. Dave 00:49 And guy just here to ask you some questions about fish. Will leech. Will 00:53 Bewildered bemused stare to camera You know, no one starts with the newspaper journalists anymore. Tara 00:57 Welcome to Extra Hot Great for another week. We will introduce our guest in just a second, but first we want to tell you a little site business because We hit that campaign goal. Woo! Confetti Cannon! Sarah 01:13 Woo. Tara 01:17 New Patreon perks are unlocked. Stephanie Early Green is going to deliver us her first commentary for the episode. Of extra extra hot great that is dropping this Friday, September 12th. Carrie Race will have her first one around a month after that. The two of them will Continue to alternate through the year with their commentaries. We will have to get the drunk Dave episode on the books once Austin HQ is probably on the other side of our thrilling sewer renovation. Don't be jealous. Dave 01:43 You want a you want a little preview? Tara 01:48 If you are curious about what the next perks are, you can go to our website, extrahotgreat. com. But for now, thank you everyone who joined. Woo! And now. Sarah 01:57 Yeah. Tara 01:58 He is a podcaster, critic, novelist, and newspaper journalist. You've heard with us many times before. It's Will Leach. Dave 02:04 Welcome back, Will. Tara 02:05 Welcome back, Will. Sarah 02:05 Will lead. Will 02:10 That feels like that's the one that comes at the end. Tara 02:10 Well it's last for a reason. Dave 02:12 They do it, but they do it with like a sad face. Newspaper journalist. Tara 02:19 Come on now. Will 02:19 I'll have you know that I'm a subscriber to the new onion, and so they came, the issue came. And I saw my sixth-grade son was so con he tore the paper apart by accident. I told him to put it back together, and he just literally could not do it. He's like, I can find page one, but I can't find page two. And that's on the other side. Tara 02:39 Mm mm-hmm. Will 02:40 It was just the amount of things he could not figure out. Sarah 02:41 It's like trying to swipe. You're like, oh, yeah. Will 02:43 Yes, yes. He kept calling me unk. I was very much an unknown. I was an unknown paper. Sarah 02:46 Oh no, Rizless Nightmare. Will 02:47 Very much an unknown paper. Yeah, I'm an unknown right now. Tara 02:51 Speaking of newspapers, we are here to talk about the paper. Will 02:51 Yes. Tara 02:54 Ned Donald Gleason graduated with a journalism degree in the 2000s when the industry was not doing great. His father convinced him to take a safer job, so he went into paper sales. eventually becoming such a star at the Chicago office of Softie's toilet paper that he parlayed it into a job editing The Toledo Truth Teller, a newspaper owned by Softie's parent company, Ennervate. This happens to be the same company that bought Dunder Mifflin in 2019, we are told, which is why the documentary crew that covered the Scranton office of that company for so many years in the office. has reconvened to see what's up with the truth teller. To say the paper is struggling would be kind, but can Ned revive it as an important local news source by convincing the totally unqualified Staffers who happened to work on his floor, that they should volunteer at the Truth Teller in addition to working at their actual jobs? Seems unlikely, but if he didn't, there wouldn't be a show that was officially renewed for its second season the morning before its series premiere. On Peacock. The show was co-created by Greg Daniels, who also created The Office, and Michael Komen, who co-created Eagle Heart. All ten episodes of The Papers' first season dropped on Peacock September 4th. We may talk about events from any of them. Let's do the Chen check-in. Will, should our listeners, watch the paper. Will 04:08 A qualified nay What's this qualified horse shit, to be as clear as possible? Tara 04:11 Sarah. Sarah 04:11 Unqualified no from this viewer. Tara 04:14 Dave. Dave 04:15 I gotta say if you like the office or parks or rec, you're probably going to enjoy this one just fine. But me personally, I could have like you could have left it on the table or I could have watched more. It's not super awesome. Tara 04:27 No from me. You can read my review to find out in detail why. But Will, let's start with you. What is this horseshit? Dave 04:37 Wow, thumb on the scale. Tara 04:41 What what is your qualification, I guess? Let's start there. Will 04:44 I do think that I like some of the cast in this. I actually, it's funny. Don Hulk Leeson, when he was, I think he was on Colbert, he talked about the show that he did with Steve Carell. Tara 04:55 Oh, the patient, yeah. Will 04:56 Yeah, which I thought was actually pretty good. And I thought he was really good in it, actually. And so, like, I generally, once the thing that got me most excited about was not the office about it, it was actually him. I think he's like a really versatile actor and a really interesting actor. And it feels like his heart is generally in the right place. And I want to give the benefit of the doubt because remember, there's been, of course, all the talk about the office didn't figure it out until its second season. Actually, Parks and Rec also didn't figure itself out until its second season. I like that show maybe even more than The Office. That's the show that I'm pretending. The good place I could have kind of ran out of gas on. To me, Parks or Rex is still kind of my strike zone show, and that really figured out. So, I want to give that benefit of the doubt. That said, I think this is not as far along as even those two shows were after their first runs. I would say that, like. One of the major issues, it's funny, as a journalism nerd, the fact that they called this The Paper, of course, I love the movie, The Paper, Ron Howard's movie, The Paper. And the reason I love that movie, that movie's got some formulaic stuff, and not everything is perfect about it. But that movie loves journalism in its very bones. Now, obviously, that's from a different era and it's from a different time, and the industry is in a different place. But I would argue that that movie showed a love for journalism that was actually founded in kind of the cynicism of people that kind of are into journalism. And I think journalism itself is kind of a Cynical enterprise. It's kind of a like, but people that do it tend to be a little jaded, tend to be a little cynical. And so I think it speaks, I don't know, poorly. Or better to the business now, that the idea of doing journalism is now this like earnest, we're gonna go do it, which is to me the opposite of what actually journalism should be skeptical. Journalism should be like kind of questioning. This movie does not seem, excuse me, this show does not seem made by people who they seem to love journalism as a concept, the way that, like, actors are always saying, we're supporting journalists when they're being interviewed by journalists, but don't. Tara 06:50 Mm-hmm. Will 06:50 Seem to actually understand how the business works. Tara 06:52 Yeah. Will 06:52 This feels like a surface level thing of journalism rather than something that really deeply understands it the way the original movie did. Tara 06:59 Yeah, I mean, knowing that Greg Daniels was a Harvard lampoon guy, I believe, like says a lot where it's sort of like you have this hazy romantic idea. of how putting out a publication worked in the 1980s. That is not necessarily still the case here. And I you know, it's just a bit of a problem for me. I'm curious to hear from the other two people who aren't me that worked on a newspaper, because I never did. I'm the only one here who hasn't. Sarah, unqualified no. Sarah 07:24 But this is also coming from someone who had little to no use for the office and had to be forsened to watch any Parks and Rec. But like Will, I really looked at Gleason and, you know, my man Tracy Letz showing up in flashbacks in this one, I was like I want to trust you two because I those are two like uh magnets for me that it's like okay if you thought this project was good then I believe you It's not that it's terrible. It's just so thoroughly not for me from Tis to to from top to toes that it's just like, I mean, and it's not enough of any one thing or tone, like, it's not funny. Nough, it's not savage enough towards the gutting of journalism for clickbaity crap. It's It's just not enough. And then, in some ways, it's way too much. Like Esmeralda, this is not a person who can exist in a workplace anymore. I don't feel. It's like they just kind of took some leftover scraps from Parks and Rec and The Office and like kind of tried to Frankenstein together another workplace comedy. And it's just really Really, not for me. And as far as working on a newspaper goes, like I was on the alternative campus paper. That was always getting in trouble for like putting stills from pornos on the back page, but like because we were the alternative paper The newsprint quality that we could afford was so bad that I'm shocked that anyone could even tell what was happening in those stills. Will 09:01 Yeah. Tara 09:05 Mm-hmm. Sarah 09:10 But, like, it didn't feel like anyone else in the writer's room had really any Pertinent experience in terms of like, you know, physically putting line tape on a page and then driving it to Trenton so they could print it. Like, this is not coming from a deep fondness based on experience. Like Will said. So, yeah, it's just like, eh. Tara 09:31 That seems like it's it was kind of your take too, Dave. Dave 09:34 I'll be honest with you, I don't really care too much if They're putting the bygone days of real journalism on a pedestal, and that is their mission statement. Because I mean, the office is just a workplace comedy, and this can be just a workplace comedy. Tara 09:44 Right, yes. Dave 09:46 And I would be fine with that if everything else. Was working, and it's not all working. Like, there are a lot of boring, oatmeal-y characters in this show that is born from DNA, where it is everybody has. Sarah 09:51 Right. Dave 09:58 They're a crazy quirk and they're all together, and somehow that formula works within the confines of this workplace. But here, like Dedric and Nicole are so boring, and they put them together for so much. Of the show's back half, and I'm just like, where is this going? Surely, this is going somewhere. No, it goes absolutely nowhere. And then a lot of the humor. Seems stuck back in when the office and parks and rec were doing their first runs. Like there is the X community jokes, you know, the claustrophobic community has umbrage with blah blah blah stuff. Tara 10:29 Mm-hmm. Dave 10:32 There is Me Too email jokes. There is catfishing jokes. Like it really feels like it was born 15 years ago, sitting on a shelf, and they kind of brought it back without really updating it a lot, you know, and there's. influencer stuff and all these all this kind of really boring, well tread, well worn areas these days. And I was just sort of Thought that they would do more with it. Like the office and parks and rec, I watched them, they were on for a while, anyways. I think I probably got over halfway through each of them. And they were fine, but it's not the type of show that I want to go back and watch again. The millennials, they love themselves some The Office, and it's on repeat. It's sort of like their version of what a lot of people our age would watch: Friends or something like that. Not me, but a lot of people. But I just never really clicked for that. And I think this is the same way for me. It's just like, it was fine. I washed it once. I never want to go back again. There are things I liked. I liked Tim Key a lot in this. And there are some moments for a lot of characters. I'd like, oh, that's the spark they need. I thought Tim Key was great. I thought the interactions between the lead and the owner of the company were basically just like this father figure you never had. It just goes fucking crazy for like 15 minutes. There were moments in this run that I thought, oh, yeah, they got it there. But then there's a whole lot of stuff around that that just, I'm not going to say didn't work, it just wasn't that funny. Sarah 11:54 Yeah. And I think the mockumentary format has to be like forcibly put on price. We can't still be doing that. It's side eye to camera. I feel like as a culture, we have done that. And especially from this team, it's a bit of a crutch that was not disguising the fact that, as I said, it's just not funny enough. Will 12:16 I think it actually hurts some characters. I like that Chelsea Frey character. That could be an NCS Four Stars and Stripes reporter. She's been kind of stuck in this job. That's potentially kind of interesting, but she's stuck being the one that looks at the camera or the normal one that reacts to all the crazy people around them. And all that does is just remind you: oh, yeah, this is from the office people, but it's not as funny as the office. Dave 12:36 Right. Will 12:36 And But also, kind of Michael Scott sometimes, but also also, and the whole thing is also, honestly, you've you touched on the Esmeralda character, but I mean, it's She's a big problem. Dave 12:37 But there's also two of those characters up top, right? Sarah 12:37 Yeah. Dave 12:39 Because Gleason is also sort of that character for a lot of the times. Will 12:51 Like, that's a that she's a really, and I don't mean that any offense to the actress, but like, the tone of it is just that character. Is to be as big as they are and do the crazy things as that character does in a show that ostensibly is supposed to be a mock documentary thing. They better go. Super, super big or dial it back way, way back. And I think it just, it did every there are scenes that potentially could get working that get stopped dead in their tracks by that character. Tara 13:19 I agree. I also to me, it's like the vision of the show is sort of simultaneously optimistic and pessimistic. It's like a beautiful dream that a journalism nerd would get a whole paper to run and a horrible nightmare that he's doing it with The not resources that they're supplying him with. It's sort of like, it's nice to dream big, but this is all you get. Or it's sort of like, well, why would I watch another season of this? It's so depressing. Dave 13:44 I mean, the office was depressing in its own way, too. They're working at this like sad suburban industrial mall, and nobody's really happy with where their career is going because they'll work. At a paper company, filling out forms all day long. So I don't think that was like optimistic fun fest either. But I understand that the death of journalism speaks to a whole other Sort of cascading issue delta that we are dealing with today. So, in that regards, I can understand that you're wary of it, but as far as like the comedy goes, I don't really mind it that much. I don't think it affects it. Or rather, it didn't need to affect it. I just think they sort of needed to have a better mission statement when it came to the throughput. of what they were saying about it. Sarah 14:26 Hm Yeah, I agree. Dave 14:27 And the fact that it's like all over the map, you know, wrapping that in comedy, but it didn't really seem like they had the rapping under control. Tara 14:36 Right. But it's I mean, the journalism part is only one of the hellscapes that it's portraying. The other is the capitalist one where it's like, do another job on top of your job. We're not going to pay you. But wouldn't it be great if you did? Sarah 14:48 Yeah. Tara 14:49 Wouldn't you feel good about yourself? Sarah 14:49 Do more for less. Tara 14:51 No. Sarah 14:51 Yeah. Tara 14:52 Explain to a character needs to explain why they want to do that, and none of them do. Dave 14:56 I kind of wonder why they didn't just set this twenty years ago. Tara 15:01 Yeah. Sarah 15:01 Or forty. Like, just make the whole thing the sepia tone flashbacks with Tracy Letts. Will 15:07 I would love that, actually. Tara 15:08 Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah 15:11 He does a side eye like nobody's business and if he's having problems with it, the wife can come and then like fucking cast her. Dave 15:16 Yeah. Sarah 15:19 Why not? Dave 15:20 I think it could have been, I mean, I don't mean in tone necessarily, but the vibe of where the business fits into the comedy. I think this could have been like WKRP in Cincinnati, where it's a lot of people that love to work in the industry. The station as a whole isn't really a great success, but it's chugging along, and therefore it can provide The setting for the comedy. Whereas this one, it always seems to be held back by sort of how a little bit sad it all is. And not sad, like, I wish I was doing more with my career. Sad, like, it speaks to an area of. Society that has experienced utter collapse, and you either have to go really dark with that or sort of be super bubbly in the face of it, and it's not doing either. Tara 16:06 Yeah, I mean, there's an episode episode eight, and I don't know if I'm I assume I'm the only one who got that far. Dave 16:10 I watched them all. Tara 16:12 Okay. It is all about a a big PR crisis at the parent company because they make a product called Man Mitts that are like glove toilet paper gloves that are moist towelettes. Sarah 16:12 Yeah. Tara 16:23 That are supposedly flushable, and then if they find out they're not, they've clogged pipes downtown. Dave 16:27 If anybody remembers those stick a toothbrush on your finger claws. Remember those? Tara 16:32 Yes, uh-huh. Dave 16:32 And then you rub your teeth with them? They are that material exactly. That's that thing. Tara 16:36 Yes, right. Dave 16:37 Yeah. Tara 16:37 So, so in that episode. Ned has to go back to his sales roots and like start working the phones and be like, here's how we're going to fix this. It's not a flushable toilet wipe. Now it's a kitchen wipe you throw away. And so he gets on the phones and starts doing sales like crazy and is like this totally douchey, asshole-y guy that got him that made him all this money in Chicago. Dave 16:57 Boiler room. Tara 16:58 Yeah, exactly. But like, why can't that be the show? Like, make it the toilet paper company. Dave 17:01 Boiler room Well, I would say the opportunity for it being a paper is that they can get the cast out of the office more. Tara 17:04 You know what I mean? Like, then the stakes are so much lower immediately. Toilet paper is automatically funnier than a newspaper because it's about your butt. I guess, yeah. Dave 17:18 And go into it. Like one of the jokes I thought was really funny in the first episode when they're just talking about how the paper exists now, you know, because they're out about town. There's an article called Scene Around Town. And if you zoom in in on it, it's just a list of everybody's names. There's actually no copying of whatever. There's like opportunities there for where the office meets the community. And I don't think that was fully explored and leveraged either, but I feel like that is the benefit of a purely office scenario versus like one where they are forced to leave it. Will 17:51 One thing I would I guess we maybe can close with this, but like I think a fundamental problem too, and you touched on this earlier, I think, Tara, the expanded cast is just really not quite interesting enough. And I, you know, I look at like, look at Alex Edelman. Like, that's, she's, he's like, he's like a very successful, like, he's very, he's a very good comic. He's has a one-man show on Broadway. He's done a lot of great things, and he's he seems to be kind of doing Steve Carell and Anchorman a little bit, and like it just doesn't work. And it just doesn't pop. It's not like he's bad. It's just that, like, a lot of these characters, I don't look at a lot of these characters and be like, oh, well, this one's going to have a new shading. It's going to grow. The way some of even I think Parks Rex definitely had, and I think the office even was able to sink on this at a fundamental notion. Forget the notion of like where it's set or what they're doing. Like, I want to see more Ned, I want to see more pretty. And I want to see more Tracy Letts. And that's kind of it. And that's a problem. Clip 18:46 Got a lot of shows. It's a great time for shows. Dave 18:50 It is time to go around the dial. First stop, Tara. Tara 18:53 Hello. I've watched all of Only Murders in the Building season five, except for the finale. They provided almost all of them this time. And when I reviewed the show in season four, I wrote that A Cozy Mystery is kind of a critic-proof genre. I stand by that. But I don't think this show in particular is one that can go on forever. And it's starting to seem like they need to. Start winding it down because the stakes are getting too high and too real. And yes, I realize that seems like a crazy thing to say about a show that's primarily about murder, but that's how I feel. Sarah, you're nodding. You agree. Sarah 19:26 Yeah, I have only seen the first three because I was investigating like does this have any Connection to actual true crime, so that I would write about it for best evidence. Tara 19:34 Right. Sarah 19:37 I mean, it does, and it doesn't, like, sort of where it's going to go is passing comment from my husband. It's like, well, you're basically just wanting to. Spend time with these characters at this point, especially since even the show seems very aware, like you point out, Tara, that The calendar only goes in one direction, as Dave Senior likes to say, and there may be limited time. Tara 19:55 Yeah. Sarah 19:59 Are they constructing off-ramps and stuff like that? Tara 20:01 Mm-hmm. Sarah 20:01 But that did sort of make me think: like, maybe actual true crime has some shit to learn. Tara 20:06 Mm. Sarah 20:06 From this show. And I don't know, there's some cool Blake Prohibition content in this season. Tara 20:08 Yeah. Sarah 20:13 But I mean, I thought your review was right on in this way. Tara 20:13 There is. I mean, I won't spoil the thing, even though by the time people hear this, it will have it will have been revealed at the end of the first episode. But that was where I was like, this is Buncey shit for real. The big, the big, uh, yeah, the big show of the season. Sarah 20:29 Yeah. I had that in the back of my mind that I was like, hmm, what's going to be the Buncey sh oh, hello? Tara 20:36 There it is. Yeah. Sarah 20:37 There it is. Tara 20:38 The spoiler-free version is a significant element of this season's mystery, involves casino gaming and a trio of billionaires who, being billionaires, are up to no good. Basically, all the kinds of contemporary billionaire are represented. Christoph Waltz plays a freak who's trying to live forever with blood transplants and so on, or whatever they do, transfusions. Renee Zellweger plays a Martha Stewart type. Logan Luhrmann is the descendant of a crooked pharma family who's trying to do good with the money he's inherited and yelling on social media about what a normal guy he is so that you know Valtz and Lerman, I would say, don't stretch much with it. It's just fine. Zellweger is playing her character like she's in a Paddington as a villain or something. Like, she's obviously a good actor. She's making choices that can be seen from space in this season. And. For the regular cast, it is continuing to be a plot point that Charles, the Steve Martin character, is rapidly aging. Sarah 21:23 Okay. Tara 21:28 Steve Martin is 80 in real life. He is getting worried about being left alone. Mabel, played by Selena Gomez, is still stressed about her future. A key character gets replaced by an AI entity this season, also, and then everyone has to face the threat of potentially losing their apartments. This is not the escape I come to this show for. It's too real. The show's fine, but they need to wrap it up. Not to be macabre, but before Steve Martin or Martin Short dies. There, I said it. As Sarah indicated, I did review it, and we'll link that in the show notes. Dave 21:59 All right, Will, what have you been watching recently that people need to know about? Will 22:03 I don't know if Need Need's doing a lot of work there, but I'll say that when I'm down, and that's been happening a lot lately. Um I'll find that not nothing per nothing as long as But anyway, I o I often fall fall back on 30 rock clips. Sarah 22:11 What, why? Dave 22:14 Will, you're writing a Simon to Garfunkel song right now in real time. Will 22:25 It's just my little, that's my little escape place. That's my happy place. But I had not realized until I actually was looking at the actual 30 Rock YouTube page of the day that they actually update this thing like every two weeks. They update with a new thing. And it's actually very, very funny. There seem I don't know. Who at NBC or Universal or Peacock is in charge of this thing? I think that they are definitely someone who was very young when the show came out. It's very fun to see 30 Rock. Have headlines like on their videos written the way like a 22-year-old intern writes social media and like Kenneth Parcell's most unhinged moments or like or Cold opens to make me proud to be British. Jack Donaghy's most iconic lines. It's just very, very, very weird and disorienting to see 30 Rock sold the way that we live now. Tara 23:13 Yeah. Mhm. Will 23:16 In a very, very strange way. Sarah 23:18 Yeah. Will 23:18 Everything is still great. The show is still awesome. Everything still makes me laugh. But there's something disorienting about realizing: oh, so this is. This, I'm assuming a 22-year-old, someone, someone, someone in the social media department, they're like, hey, this is your internship. This is your practice thing. Into here. Tara 23:34 Yeah. Will 23:35 There are many ways to describe Kenneth Parcel. Most unhinged feels like maybe not the best way to describe Kenneth Parcel. At least, not at his best. But so I enjoy, but I still find myself going back and watching the world, nevertheless. Tara 23:48 I'll say whoever is doing that for Brooklyn nine nine is also very busy, also in the family, because Somebody submitted a tiny cannon about Doug Judy from Brooklyn 99, the Craig Robinson character. Will 23:58 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tara 24:00 And I just went to look for something that was like the best of Doug Judy. And there are like seven different ones, and they're all official peacocks. So. Will 24:07 Yeah. Tara 24:07 Someone is spending time well there, I would say. Dave 24:10 This whole thing reminded me of something I saw on Reddit this morning. I don't follow DC Comics, but for some reason Reddit always puts it in the front page. So this is from R D C U underscore. And it's called Bro Who's Running the DC YouTube channel Skull emoji. And it's just screenshots of the thumbnails and this one thumbnail of Wonder Woman and somebody else. Is captioned Wonder Woman Bloodlines colon. Please step on me, Giganta. Official, official channel. Sarah 24:41 Well The screenshot I just saw looks like he's about to make out with Robin, so yeah? Will 24:43 A visual You can always find me at Williamfleech. Dave 24:44 Yeah, not quite as good as Batman's most legendary Riz moments, but, you know, it's pretty good. Tara 24:44 Amazing. Mm. Mm-hmm. Dave 24:56 Sure. Clip 24:57 That's not that much cheese. Dave 24:59 All right, well, what do you got? Where can people find you today on the internet, tomorrow on the internet? Will 25:07 subsec. com. It is my always free weekly newsletter with links to everything that I make. I've also started writing for the athletic. On a weekly basis, I've tried to stay away from sports stuff. Tara 25:15 Woo! Will 25:17 I like writing sports, sports public, I love writing sports stuff. I usually like writing sports stuff for non-sports publications Because they're barely paying attention. Tara 25:23 Mm-hmm. Will 25:24 You can get away with anything. But now, now that I'm ready for sports travel vocation, I gotta, I gotta. I gotta up my game a little bit. Tara 25:30 Oh boy, fact checking. Dave 25:32 What is your dream pairing of sports writing and non-sports publication, like Farmer's Almanac or something? Tara 25:36 Ooh, good question. Will 25:39 Yeah, I think maybe I think actually just writing things for the 30 Rock Official YouTube page from just all about sports shouting. Sarah 25:45 Oh, there you go. Will 25:48 I would just annotate all the sports shouting episodes. Sarah 25:49 Mhm. Tara 25:50 No, no, no. Will 25:50 That's what I really like to do. Dave 25:56 Oh, all right, all right, all right. Andre the giant, please step on me. Sarah D. Bunting, what do you got? Sarah 26:03 Well, I'm here to talk about Netflix's new love fraud justice docuseries, LoveCon Revenge. It cut off to kind of rough start for me. It is Functionally, a spin-off of the Tinder Swindler, which was the romance scam target, flips the script on her scammer dock from a few years back. Dave 26:22 Tinder swindler. Does he know the hamburgler? Sarah 26:26 Do you know how hard it was to say that correctly without stumbling over it the first time? Dave 26:29 Yeah, well done. Mm-hmm. Sarah 26:31 Thank you. Thank you very much. I liked the doc fine. I liked its heroine, Cecilia Fjelhoy, fine. Doesn't mean I needed to see her team up with a PI for a catfish meets cold justice. Hybrid, especially one that in the early going is not even close to processy enough. And on the one hand, I sort of get it. Cecilia is still a very warm, relatable presence on screen. She's very focused on supporting victims and diverting blame back onto scammers. And I like that angle, and more true crime should take that attitude. But This specific subgenre of true crime does rely pretty heavily on whether we can play along at home, so to say. I mean, all of true crime kind of does to an extent, but that nosy puzzle solving lets us feel a measure of control over the genre's evils, sort of in the broad sense, and then in the narrow sense, we just like to see if we would have gotten. Scammed. So it's one thing not to point to various and sundry junctures in the scam's timeline and get snotty about the mark missing obvious lies or whatever. I agree that that's Not helpful. And as Cecilia knows more than once in the first few episodes, for a lot of these guys, this is their job and they're pretty good at it. But it's another thing not to furnish the scam's timeline really at all. And in the first case, that Cecilia and her fellow PI, Brianne Joseph, no relation to Max. Or tackling the so-called file is so elliptical. I couldn't really blame the local police for not moving on it because I couldn't even tell whether the client and the scammer had broken up yet in the show's timeline. And it's not that I didn't believe the client or sympathize with her, it's that we watched this kind of show for process, and that part is not done well here. Until it is. Lovecon Revenge does seem to figure out as it goes along how to include more processes. Brianne and Cecilia have good partner chemistry, they're very watchful. Together, I got used to the weird pacing of this series that puts case outcomes partway through episodes instead of At the end, I don't understand why shows are doing this now. Dear Project Runway, just go back to alfing someone at the end of an episode. Tara 28:47 Oh, God, yes. Sarah 28:48 I don't have time for your shit. This version might make you nuts if you are accustomed to certain rhythms in the subgenre, but I also kind of respect that they're like, cases take as long as they take, just chop these into 47 minute episodes. They end where they end, I would give it a chance. It's trying to do something, and I respect it. And everybody's manicure game is on point, also. If that's something that you need in your true crime viewing, I wasn't aware that I needed it until I saw it. For my plug, I did write about this on my True Crime Review blog that I do with Eve Beatty. It's called bestevidence. fyi. I've also reviewed a handful of true crime books recently. Come on through, see which true crime is worth your time. And I will also have an Only Murders in the Building piece up later this week. And it will link to Taurus. Dave 29:46 All right, here's what's coming up on extra extra hot grade this Friday. It is the show Task, which is like Taskmaster, but nobody runs it. Tara 29:55 Yeah. Dave 29:55 You just do tasks and the show ends. No fun, no mus. Tara 29:59 It's just a camera sitting on a task for an hour, just shooting it, maybe moving the angles. Dave 30:04 Oh boy, panel shows have really lost their way. Tara 30:05 Yeah. Dave 30:07 Well, whatever that is, we're going to talk about it on Friday and then come back right here on EASG Prime. Next week, The Morning Show is back with season four. And of course, we'll welcome back Christina Tucker to talk all about that. It is time for the extra hot great cannon presenting this week is Mr. Will Leach. Will, take it away. Will 30:33 Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. I guess I'm my suggestion on this one is the pilot episode, episode one of Netflix's Department Q. I am always wary, for good reason, of trying as a long-time listener and contribute to the show. And at one point, I was on a great streak. Of getting cannons in there until I fell short. I believe on a Nathan for you episode. I'm always wary of trying to put a pilot Uh, in the canon. Tara 30:55 Oh, yeah. Will 30:59 Shows don't always know what they are yet that early, of course. Most of the characters will be entirely different in like three episodes. They usually spend so much time explaining what the show is going to be about rather than actually being the thing it's going to be about. But I'd like to make an exception. For Department Q, the compulsively watchable and deceptively complex police procedural from Scott Frank. Now, I should confess, I was positive, if sort of lukewarmly so, on the Queen's Gambit, his previous Netflix show, which started out strong. But got a little dreamy and experimental in a way that I'm not sure the characters were quite interesting enough to justify. Now, I say that for two reasons: one, I love Department Q and love it so much that I will formally request that we be extremely careful of spoilers. So, if anyone who hasn't seen it yet can get have the show unspooled for them the way that it should. And two, I actually have to cover my ass a little bit when I say I love Department Q because Since I watched it, it turns out that one of the things we mentioned earlier in the show is: I, I, my novel, Lloyd McDeal's Last Ride, was optioned by Lionsgate. I, it turns out that it's actually Scott Frank writing the screenplay of that. Tara 31:55 Whoa! Sarah 31:56 Oh, damn. Dave 31:56 Oh, I see how it is. Will 31:57 Which is, I did not know. I had nothing to do with that, by the way. I assume that Scott Frank writes so many things. I just assume he had like an extra 50. 15 minutes in his schedule and just kind of tossed it in. But what I'm trying to show is I am not biased. That's what I'm saying. Because the Queen's cable was 1 Okay. But it's very exciting. I think he's an incredible writer. And I'm sure we've read the New Yorker piece about him, which really kind of about him kind of coming into his thing in his career. And I think Department Q is a great example. Of that. So I'm just saying, I'm not biased. I think you, but I do think this is a great show, and I think the pilot does a brilliant job of setting up why. Now, basically, everything you need to know about the show and all the ways it will play with your expectations. It's right there in the pilot, even if you don't necessarily realize it at the time. We see it in the first scene, which is shot in body cam footage when we meet Detective Mork. And realize, oh, he's a genius, but also a huge hassle, not in that likable asshole way. He's just the kind of a prick for everyone for the sake of being a prick. His default state, like many characters we've seen before. Clip 32:56 Don't touch that. Put your fucking hands behind your back, yes? Yes, sir. How long have you been on the job? A month? Three, sir. I'm judging by the flower pot outside, the same number of times you've puked. It's the smell, sir. It's not rocket science, just open a window. I mean, you check them anyway, right? Did you check them? Yes, check them. Are they open? Are they closed? Are they locked? Are they broken? Is there another door? Or does it look forced? Fucking anything apart from ooh, it smells, which we kind of already know. Will 33:27 Uh mean, mean, mean. That's Mork belittling a young cop at a crime scene. And it turns out it's mere seconds before the young cop is about to die, and Mork himself is going to get shot. We then learn. This is in fact a flashback as much as body cam footage can be a flashback, I guess. And the basic tenets of the show are said: Mark is a jerk, but needs to learn to be less of one because being a jerk is getting in the way of not just being so smart and a genius. And being al uh, but also being alive. And this show is going to subvert your expectations of a cop show while still giving you what you want from a cop show. We then immediately meet. Merit Lingard, prosecuting a case, may realize she's actually not all that different from Mork. Smart, driven, convinced everyone else in her life is stupider than her, and correct. Mostly, though, all that does is of course make her and everyone else's lives harder. When we see her getting dressed down by her superior after she messed up in court. Clip 34:15 You go too far sometimes, and today was a perfect example. What was I supposed to do? You left me hanging. You didn't let me use Kirstie's evidence. She was not going to help you. She would have made it worse, in fact. Well, without her, there was no evidence. There's plenty of evidence. You had what you yourself described as a slam-dunk case, and then you proceeded to tell the jury just how convinced you were that the man in the box is a murderer. Once a jury gets alone in a room, the facts of the case become the topic at hand, not how badly the killer might feel or how much love he had for his victim. No one can say what a jury will do. I'm just saying they know he did it. Do they? Or do you just expect them to think you're right? Will 34:59 So after we see that, it became pretty clear these two cases must be tied together somehow, and of course, in a way, they are, but it turns out in one of the show's mini Clever narrative dipsy-doos. This is happening long, long before what we just witnessed, even though that itself was a flashback. This will all be revealed at the end of the episode. One of the great things that the show does is weave all of these timelines in and out of the show without ever feeling like some sort of Tarantino-esque exercise in cleverness or even or really being confusing. Honestly, I don't want to say too much more about this episode, or even this whole series, than that. The glory of a great pot boiler like this is so much more fun, the less you know. It's another reason I keep hiding from all the knives out reviews in Toronto. But I will say this: Department Q is the sort of show that I love because it's incredibly well thought out, start to finish, both willing to take narrative risks and also willing to rely on convention and able to get away with it because it's so sturdy and well constructed. The pilot gets you absolutely hooked, but it also doesn't promise anything the show itself isn't going to deliver. It tells what you're going to get, and again, it gives it to you in a way that's new while also allowing the viewer to orient themselves. And again, that's kind of all I really want to say. Oh, and also. Clip 36:07 What the fuck? The house is on fire. Fuck off. Cause I smell the smoke. Will 36:11 Oh, God. My kids are not quite that age yet, but they're the worst. I'm not going to be handling. Every time I watch that kid, I was like, oh, I swear to God, if either one of you children are like this, you're being thrown out of the house. Dave 36:23 Yeah, he's a real shit. Will 36:24 You're the worst. Tara 36:25 Set a rule about skull masks now, just to have it on the books. Will 36:25 Oh my god. Sarah 36:29 Yeah, for sure. Dave 36:30 Only at the dinner table, you know this. Will 36:32 I need to leave for just a second. Anyway, this is the sort of well-written show that I absolutely adore. And there's a little part of me that absolutely cannot kind of believe that the guy who made it liked my book enough to try to wrangle my mangled prose into a readable script. I promise if Lloyd McNeil's last ride ever actually does get made in the 15 minutes, I assume Scott Frank has time to write it, to ever try to get it into canon. And thus, the best I can do is nominate this. Tara 36:59 Thank you, Will. Sarah, why don't you start us off? Sarah 37:01 I don't mind if I do. I was struck. Again, by how this show sort of balances, as Will pointed out, things that are familiar to you from a procedural or sort of like a mystery show. And slightly different ways of doing things or letting moments breathe. There were a couple of moments that I Sort of forgotten about. I believe we talked about the show in on the podcast in June. We'll link it in the show notes. I had forgotten. He is assigned an office in Downstairs, Downstairs. And when he's sort of sitting in the middle of it, it brought to mind that kind of dream. I don't know if anyone else has this dream where there's like a whole other part of Your home or the house you grew up in that's full of like all this cool furniture. Or, and you're like, How did I not know this was here? Why didn't anyone tell me? And also, this is red. And then you wake up and you're like, oh. I just have the same old square footage and boring IKEA shit. And the fact that it could do that much for me with a shot composition was really something. There's also a moment when he's visiting his. Old partner, where a look passes between them, and it's a heavy moment, and a lot is being done, but also not too much. It would have been so easy for that moment to go too far. I also am trying to. Avoid spoilers, but this was definitely one of the more remarkable pilots in a while in terms of it. Putting me back on my heels in the first five minutes, realizing that this also was a flashback and the use of the body cam footage. Like I remembered that part, but I was struck by the way it was. Done the way it was led up to. The pacing was perfect. It's also a pretty good end of the pilot reveal that you see what's threading everything together and what you're going to be dealing with. But I'm not like, I don't know if we necessarily have enough distance from this pilot to say if it's like a standout for the show. I am not sure if we're like far enough from it time-wise. But as I was watching it, I sort of Felt like, well, I'm not sure that stuff matters because I think this was a really striking piece of work that does what a Canon presentation is supposed to do or made me want to keep watching more. So it's what it's supposed to do. For Sarah, which is just let it flip over to the next episode and keep and keep watching it do what it does so well. So, excellent presentation and a pleasure to revisit, but I'm not sure where my parameters are going to fall for this one for all the piloty reasons statement. Dave. Dave 39:56 Will, I have a question for you, and I don't mean this pointedly, but how much Nordic noir have you watched? Will 40:03 Um probably not a lot. Dave 40:04 Like the bridge or forbiddlessen trapped Okay I think you would enjoy Nordic Noir a lot because this is Nordic Noir. It's just set in Scotland. Will 40:16 Okay. Dave 40:17 Like, it is the formula of Nordic Noir, unmistakably. Tara 40:20 Well, it literally is. It's based on a book by a Danish crime writer. Will 40:24 Yeah. Dave 40:24 There you go. I forgot that detail. Tara 40:24 Yeah. Sarah 40:25 Yeah. And it's at the same like latitude on the globe, basically. Dave 40:28 Right. It's as gray as anything you'll see in Braun or Forber Delson for sure. Sarah 40:33 Mm-hmm. The investigation, yeah. Dave 40:36 I was happy to watch this at the time. I thought the pilot was really put together. The spoiler that we're dancing around with the framing of the episode. I thought it was really well done. I didn't see it happen until like the last little bit of it being unfurled. And I thought that was clever in a Silence of the Lambs kind of way. And where it breaks down for me as far as the cannon pitch, though, is that as an exemplar of Nordic Noir, there's so much out there that is balls out crazier than this. And it delivers more on what this is doing, that it's hard to sort of want to put this in the canon because it's sort of second-tier Nordic Noir for me. Like, I thought this was fine. You know, there's like A lot of extremely tropey stuff in this series, but also Nordic Noir as a whole. You know, there are things that happen every time. The poor victim that's experiencing some incredibly complex Ru Goldberg torture scenario is something that you see a lot in Nordic Noir. And there are just some ones for me, it's the Bridge. Bridge is one of my favorite examples of this. That is taking a lot of the elements that you're championing here and dialing them up. And I think you would really enjoy a lot of these series we've been talking about. Will 41:51 I mean Hmm, channel. Dave 41:52 And they're all from like 10 or 15 years ago now. So, this is a well-established sort of scenario, well-established genre. And the rhythms and pacing of this, outside of the what do you call it, the dipsy-doo of the first episode. I think it will be quite familiar if you gave those a listen. The one thing that is different here, and I will give the show all the credit in the world for it. Is that I did not expect this character, who is an asshole with a capital A, his resting asshole self. Tara 42:25 I think that's just being an asshole, but go on. Dave 42:27 He is hard as nails kind of guy, won't let anybody get close to him. You know, he plays by only one set of rules. His own, yet he did not dry swallow the pills he had to take every day. Sarah 42:39 Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Uh-huh. Dave 42:40 He went and got a Dixie cup full of water and had pills like a normal human being. Tara 42:45 Well, he got shot in the neck, so perhaps that has something to do with it. Dave 42:48 It's just some swallowing issues. Tara 42:50 Yes. Dave 42:50 Yes, could be, could be. Otherwise, he'd be like dry, eating pills like nobody's business. So, I think this is a good episode. I think we said at the time that we were pretty impressed with the pilot episode. The show doesn't really live up. To the first episode, or rather, the show never reaches the heights of the first episode as you go in. So, I think this was the right one to put up It just doesn't really sort of in the grand scheme of Nordic noir slash Skaldish Noir, it doesn't really hit that hype for me. Tara 43:18 Yeah, I agree with what I don't have a ton to add other to add to what you've said other than a little Scott Frank tidbit that I've been I'm a late comer to the Lonely Island and Seth Meyers podcast. And so I was listening to an episode this weekend from April of this year. I believe it's Listener QA 5, where Yarma Tacone, who is married to Marielle Heller, who is a director, but also one of the stars of The Queen's Gavin, is. Has to leave in the middle of a taping because he's going to dinner at Scott Frank's house. And he's wearing apparently this very fashiony vest. And then he, when they all roast him for it. And then when he gets to the dinner, they're like, We we need to know what people are saying about this vest when when you get there and he starts texting them all the roasts of people at this like all WGA winner lun dinner that he's gone to and it's very funny. Yormaticone, by the way, just broke both his legs on the weekend. So get well soon. Holy shit. That sucks. Sarah 44:13 Yeah, my God. Tara 44:13 He's going to be immobilized for like three to six months. All of that is a sidebar. But I agree with Dave and Sarah. Like, this is, it's very well done. I'm sure I said at the time when we talked about it that there's something uncanny about seeing all the Danish tropes. In Scotland, performed by people speaking English, because, like Dave was saying, there are just some moves that all of these stories kind of go to. And So it's there's there is just something something odd. It's like it's not like exactly and the Yes. Dave 44:43 Set your clock to the first red herring. Set your clock to the second red herring. Oops, was that first red herring, in fact, a red herring in itself? Yeah. Tara 44:51 We arrested the wrong person. Oh no. And also, the kid is his stepson, right? It's not his biological child. The mother is dead or something. That's even that isn't something that was in the Finish one that we watch, Deadwind. Deadwind. So I agree, this is good, but for me, it just feels like it's so of a piece with the genre. That it's hard for me to separate this out as doing anything like that remarkable other than being into English, you know? Like it's, it, it's. It's very good. It's very gripping, but they're all kind of very good and very gripping. I don't know what it is about Denmark. They know how to write these stories. The fact that they didn't even change any of the Danish names is weird to me. Like, or change them selectively. Like, Merit Lingard, that's not a Scottish person. That's a Danish person. And Mork, also, like, I don't know why you changed it to Carl with a C. That's clearly a Carl with a K. Dave 45:46 But also Mork. Tara 45:48 But also Morke, like even if he that's not an English name either, which is whatever. Dave 45:52 Great thing is, though, as the show gets along, he gets younger. So good for Matthew Good. Tara 45:58 I was happy to watch it, but to me, this like didn't, it was not special enough or like maybe crazy enough. Dave 46:06 Right. And it was also a little bit in poor taste when he finally sees the murder scene. Tara 46:10 Hmm. Dave 46:11 And it's just like this pregnant pause, and just like very softly says, Shazbot. You're like, what? Come on, man. Will 46:18 I thought I'd put it over the top. Tara 46:18 I was going to make one more point and now I fucking forgot. Dave 46:21 Sorry. Okay, that's on me. Tara 46:23 It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Dave 46:25 All right, let's put this dude. Tara 46:25 Oh, no, I remembered. Dave 46:26 Oh, here we go. Wait, everybody, wait, wait. Here comes Tara Ariano's last. Tara 46:32 It's like when we get presented an SVU, right? It can't just be a standard SVU where something horrible happens to someone. Dave 46:35 Uh-huh, right, yeah. Tara 46:38 You need a monkey in a basketball, and there was for me no monkey in a basketball here. I guess that's what it comes down to, or that, yes. Sarah 46:45 Or someone turning on the sun. I get it. Dave 46:48 All right, let's put this to the vote. You know, we should try to work in Monkey in the Basketball to all our canon pitches, no matter what show it is, just as a comparative. Tara 46:56 Can I just say next sticker, monkey in a basketball? Dave 46:59 Monkey in basketball? All right. All right, Sarah, what do you think here? Cannon worthy or not? Sarah 47:03 Uh, I'm gonna vote for it. Dave 47:05 Yeah. Sarah 47:05 It's a yay for me, or a sha spot, I guess. Dave 47:06 Tara. Tara 47:08 It's a nay for me, but we love it when you present, Will. Please never stop. Dave 47:12 Yeah, I'm gonna give this one a pass, but it is definitely worth your time, I would say. Just not quite kind of worthy for me. So, unfortunately. Will, chewing his pencil very angrily. Will 47:25 I know. Listen, I'm responsible for getting an episode of Louie into the canon, so I deserve everything that comes my way. Tara 47:30 That's true. Dave 47:30 That's right. Tara 47:32 It was a different time. Dave 47:33 It was a different time. Tara 47:35 We didn't know. Dave 47:36 So it is my sad duty to tell you that Department Q, Series 1, Episode 1, Episode 1, you are hereby not inducted into the extra. Clip 47:53 Americans love a winner. Yup. And will not tolerate a loser. Nope. Dave 47:58 It is time to discover who is the winner and loser of the week. Tara has this week's winner. Tara 48:04 Yeah, I've been on a real Kristen Johnston kick lately because she was I talked about her a few weeks ago. She was in Leanne, the new Netflix sitcom, which as of this recording just got renewed for a second season today. She was also in an episode of, well, she was in all the episodes of the X's, but we recently watched one for again with this podcast. And now she's in one of truly my favorite new sitcoms of 2025. Starting in season two, Kristen Johnston will be starring in Going Dutch. And I'm very excited. Because I think she's great, and I really think that show is underrated. You should watch it. Sarah 48:40 That episode of B X's was So fun. Tara 48:43 It was. Sarah 48:43 I called myself an angry old giraffe on 1999, the podcast, and it got a huge laugh. So, yeah, maybe we need a sticker for that. Tara 48:49 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dave 48:52 All right, Sarah, who's our loser of the week, please? Sarah 48:55 Alas, it is Selena Gomez and her mom. Tara 48:57 Oof. Sarah 48:58 They're the subjects of a very long, very grim expose at the cut about issues that Wondermind A mental health startup founded by her mother and at which Gomez was chief impact officer. Tara 49:15 Yeah, here's the impact. She pissed off enough people to talk to the cut because they spoke to everybody. Sarah 49:23 Yeah, Yeah, she was also like sleeping in the office for days at a time, allegedly, and not changing her clothes. Dave 49:23 Is this sort of like better help kind of thing? Where it's like it's like a somehow a tier below better help worse help Okay, Merritt That's where the impact comes from. Tara 49:26 Not e I think not even. From what I understand, it's like Mandy Tifi, her mother, was like, We should do snacks. And everyone who worked there was like, What are you talking about? So, yeah. Just very confused, yeah. Sarah 49:45 allegedly, and snorting lines of Ritalin in meetings, allegedly. And Selena Gomez allegedly showed up at a work event, already drunk, and said across a martini to an entire table full of employees that she was about to go. Fuck basically, so yeah, exactly. Will 50:02 Mm-hmm, that's chiefly. Sarah 50:04 I'm not sure how damaging that is. Dave 50:07 Wow. Sarah 50:08 A lot of people in the comments were like, Queen. I was like, Yeah, kind of. Tara 50:12 I didn't love finding out that Selena Gomez's mother is younger than me. So that was the worst part of the article. Sarah 50:18 Oh, yeah, no, uh, Eve and I were horrified by that. We were on the slack fainting couch about that fact, believe me. Tara 50:25 Mm-hmm. Dave 50:26 Speaking about high impact scenarios, you know what time it is? Tara 50:26 Boo. Dave 50:41 Welcome back to Game Time. It is the third of our current season. Scores are Tara with one, Sarah with zero, ValueGuest also with one. Today, we are playing Outre Outros from John Connors, who earns himself an extra credit topic of his choosing. Plus, a free shirt from the EHG store. You can find that at throughmethods. com. He writes, You know that feeling when an episode of T V is about to end and your brain starts to anticipate that familiar end credit music? In this game, contestants must identify the show from that bespoke end credits music. A correct answer just off the music will get you four points. If the hint is needed, I will give you the year and network the show debuted. And if you still need a hint after that one, I will let you know one of the actors from that show. Answer after that is worth one point. Guesses will be given to each of those levels, Sarah debunting. All right, that's it. Any questions? Pretty simple. All right, we're not going to do steel meals today. We're not going to do challenger zones, but we do have 21 questions. Let's throw it to the person in control, choosing initiative to see who goes first. Clip 51:52 We will start with Terra. Dave 51:53 All right, Tara, Sarah, Will will be ordered today. Are we ready to play Outre Outro? Tara 51:59 Yes, sir. Sarah 52:00 Yes. Dave 52:01 All right, we'll start you off with what I hope are gimme's, and I hope I didn't curse you by saying that. But here we go, Tara Ariano. Sarah 52:07 God, I'm not sure if I can do it. Dave 52:08 This is the music from the end credits of a TV show. Clip 52:11 A clear colour. Dave 52:11 Each clip 20 seconds long. All right, you've heard it. Can you guess here correct answer? Four points. Tara 52:36 Speaking of the lonely island at Seth Meyers, I believe that is Saturday Night Live. Dave 52:40 That is good for four. Four points. Serity Bunty, you ready for your first? Sarah 52:43 Nice. Yes. Dave 53:04 All right, that's not the sad version of Seinfeld. What is it? Clip 53:08 This is the working man, isn't it? Sarah 53:10 That bottle rolling sound effect was very helpful. I believe that is the wire. Dave 53:14 That is the wire, good for four points. Clip 53:16 This is the working man, isn't it? Dave 53:17 Will, you gotta get this to stay tied with everybody else. Are you ready? Clip 53:23 Hey, baby, I hear the blues are calling. Toss salads and scrambled eggs. Oh my. And maybe I seem a bit confused. Well, maybe, but I got. you pegged but I don't know what to do with those tossed salads and scrambled eggs I won't let our touch a rock. Dave 53:42 You'll never get closure on what's going to happen to those food items now. All right, Will, what's that show? Will 53:48 That is Fraser. Dave 53:49 Fraser, everybody has four points. We're back to Tara. Tara 53:51 And Will should know he's Frager, yes. Dave 53:52 Ready? Tara 54:14 I'm gonna guess that's unsolved mysteries? Hmm. Dave 54:18 It is not, but I totally get why you thought that. Tara 54:21 It's yeah, okay. Dave 54:21 All right, so now I'm going to give you the year the show debuted and the network on which it started. Tara 54:27 Okay. Dave 54:27 That is 2004 ABC. Tara 54:31 Lost got it. Dave 54:32 Lost is the correct answer. That is worth two points. We go from four to two to one. All right. Sere debunting. Are you ready? Sarah 55:01 Oh my god. I have like 17 options for what this could be. So I hope it's this one: Deciding Women. Tara 55:09 It's a good guess. It's close. Dave 55:11 This show debuted in 1971 on CBS. Clip 55:13 I won't move like I want it a rock Is a week old to the bump. Sarah 55:16 That was one of the other choices. Colombo Oh fuck. Dave 55:20 Incorrect. This show starred Carol O'Connor. Clip 55:22 This is the market. It's a melding up ring. Sarah 55:25 That was also one of the choices. All in the family. Dave 55:27 All right, still got one point out of that. All in the family is correct. Clip 55:30 This is the best. Dave 55:31 All right, Will, are you ready for your second TV show? Will 55:34 Yes, sir. Dave 55:53 All right, that show just ended. You heard that music. What have you been watching? Will 55:57 Was that thirty route? Dave 55:59 And was not 30 rock? This show debuted in two thousand and three on Fox. Will 56:08 Oh, a rush of element. Dave 56:09 Rest of development is good for two points. Yes. All right, back to Tara. Tara 56:35 Friday Night Lights Oh, it's not what I was thinking of at all. Dave 56:36 That is correct for four points. Yes, nicely done. Sarah 56:38 Wow, nice. Dave 56:40 All right, Sarah. All right, what's that show, sir? Sarah 57:03 Ugh, I I don't know. The Simpsons Oh, Jesus, the West Wing? Dave 57:08 Nineteen ninety nine NBC The West Wing is correct. Yes, two points for the West Wing. Tara 57:20 I thought it was murder she wrote. Dave 57:21 Oh, yeah, I can see that too. Also, sounded like an ambulance soundtrack, you know, like all the kids are skating down the road and Yeah. Clip 57:25 Cut a book, I'm all coming. Tara 57:25 Mm-hmm. Will 57:25 Yeah, right, yeah. Tara 57:27 Well, it's a snuffy Weldon joint, right? Sarah 57:28 Mhm. Tara 57:29 They all have a similar kind of tone. Sarah 57:30 Yeah. Will 57:31 With the fishing pole Oh, geez. Dave 57:34 All right, Will, here's your third theme. Sarah 57:34 And dance by the light. Dave 57:55 It's going to note that Sarah didn't get this question. All right, Will, what's that show? Will 58:05 The fiddle has me in my name is Earl Land. Tara 58:08 I think it's a banjo. Dave 58:10 Oh no, it's not right. Incorrect. 2001 was when the show started, and it started on NBC. Will 58:18 Two thousand one indie. Dave 58:19 I'll let you know it didn't end there, though. Will 58:21 Yeah, they could gather that. Dave 58:23 Okay. Will 58:23 Um I'm pass. I'll take the actor. Dave 58:29 Zach Brath, lots of shows to choose from. Will 58:31 Oh, uh, Scrubs. Sarah 58:32 That bitch. Dave 58:32 Yes, Scrubs is the one that he was in, that that was for. Will 58:33 Scrubs. Right. Dave 58:35 One point there for you. Will 58:35 Right. Tara 58:36 He could eat no fat, yes? Dave 58:36 All right. Everybody has one more question before we hit our score break. Clip 58:38 Come back on the body. Dave 58:40 This one is for Tara. And credits to What Show? Tara 59:04 Oh man, it's down to two different ones. I think it could be is this one on My Name is Earl? Dave 59:11 It is not. Tara 59:12 Okay. Dave 59:12 This show debuted on the WB in the year 2000. Clip 59:15 Cause I make them to the boat. Sarah 59:20 Not where I thought that was going. Tara 59:20 It's not even close to the other thing I was thinking of. Clip 59:23 Is it made of cool and I won't go like I'm gonna move on. Tara 59:25 WB, the year 2000. Felicity? Oh, I know it now. Dave 59:33 This show starred Lauren Graham. Tara 59:35 It's Gilmore Girls No I just saw her yesterday in Twin Lists. Dave 59:36 It is Gilmore Girls. That's not what I would have expected from the Gilmore Girls at the end. Sarah 59:40 No, yeah. Dave 59:41 That is from some library on CD back in the day, I am sure. Tara 59:47 Very good movie. Dave 59:49 All right, sarity bunting. Sarah 1:00:11 Red and Stimpy. Tara 1:00:13 You're close. Dave 1:00:14 Nineteen ninety seven at Comedy Central is your clue. Sarah 1:00:20 I mean, is this South Park? Dave 1:00:22 Yes, it is. Tara 1:00:23 Yep. Dave 1:00:23 Two points for South Park. Sarah 1:00:23 Ha, okay. Tara 1:00:24 I was gonna say came up in an off-mic conversation already tonight. Dave 1:00:25 Yes. Will 1:00:28 Because I'm an eighth grader and a sixth grader. Dave 1:00:31 All right, this one for Will will take us into our score break. Tara 1:00:53 Did you hit it twice? Oh, okay, sorry. Dave 1:00:56 There's this little gap in there because the source audio. Tara 1:00:58 Okay, got it. Will 1:01:00 Uh this sounds eighties. Who's the boss? Dave 1:01:03 It is not the eighties, it is in fact earlier, nineteen seventy five on CBS. Will 1:01:08 75 on CBS. Clip 1:01:08 Cut the book out of the moment. Will 1:01:10 What would have been CBS 75? Dave 1:01:12 One of the theme song greats is what that's based off. Will 1:01:18 Oh, uh Duke's a Hatcher? Dave 1:01:21 Incorrect? This show starred Sherman Hemsley. The Jeffersons is good for one point. All right, we are twelve of twenty-one through, so we need the scores. Tara 1:01:35 Okay, are we doing equalizer challenge zones? Dave 1:01:37 No All right, let's get back into it. Tara 1:01:38 Then in that case, Will has eight, Sarah has nine, I have eleven. Very close game. Clip 1:01:46 I'm gonna make the next one. Dave 1:01:46 We circle back to Tara for her next end of show credits theme. Tara 1:02:12 I didn't get it until the end. I knew it was a Miller Boyett's. I mean, I hope I'm right. Is this full house? Damn it! Dave 1:02:19 So confident, but so wrong This show debuted nineteen eighty nine on ABC. Tara 1:02:20 I was Family Matters It's like if Square Pegs was in the nineties, that's what that makes me think of. Dave 1:02:26 Yes, good for two. Family Matters is correct. Servity Bunting, are you ready? Sarah 1:02:31 Yes. Oh, my God. Yeah, me too. Clip 1:02:59 Is a me down to the boat, we move out of the market. Sarah 1:03:00 And I I mean, I'm very torn, but I am really gonna hope that it is Malcolm in the middle. Dave 1:03:07 Incorrect, this show debuted on NBC in the year 1999. Clip 1:03:12 Like I want to rock I want to rock Can't book and ball, get up, and walk in the book, and all this is a whack. Sarah 1:03:12 Ninety-nine I need the other hint. Dave 1:03:13 Ninety nine Linda Cartellini Breaks and Geeks, good for one When Tara said square pegs, I'm like, you're really close to the mark. Sarah 1:03:21 Oh, freaks and geeks. Tara 1:03:22 Right. Sarah 1:03:25 I was so stuck on Parker Lewis Can't Lose that I just couldn't knock it loose. Tara 1:03:27 That's what I was thinking too. Yep. Dave 1:03:35 Just wrong era. Sarah 1:03:35 Yeah. Dave 1:03:37 All right, we are back to Will. Sarah 1:03:37 Mhm. Dave 1:03:38 Will, here is your end credits theme. I'm not tipping my hat to the contents of the show, but that sounds like there's hobbits like cleaning a park with their like sticks with the nails at the end of it, just going around the shire picking up styrofoam cups and shit. Tara 1:04:10 There weren't Hobbits, but there was an Oopa Loompa in one very memorable episode. Dave 1:04:14 No, you're gonna you're you're leading him astray with Upa Lumpa Talk. Tara 1:04:16 All right. It was a joke. It wasn't an actual Oopa Loompa. Dave 1:04:18 Okay That is your theme, Will. What show is that from? Clip 1:04:21 Cause I'm back on the cold. Dave 1:04:22 I'm just going to give you an extra hint because of how much we've been fucking with you with all this extra information. It's a teen drama. Clip 1:04:29 Cause I'm back on Cause I make all the clean. Will 1:04:29 It's a teen drama. Tara 1:04:30 Yeah, there's a reason Sarah and I did not get this one. Will 1:04:31 Um Uh Beverly Hills now at two one oh WB uh Evermore? Tara 1:04:37 Ooh, pusk. Dave 1:04:38 This show debuted 1998 on the WB. Will 1:04:44 Not too early. Dave 1:04:44 This show stars James Vanderbeek. Will 1:04:48 Oh, does it screak? Dave 1:04:48 Doesn't create good for one. Sarah 1:04:51 For what it's worth, I would have guessed my so-called life. Yikes Yeah, true. Tara 1:04:56 Well, as soon as the episode ends, we turn it off. Like, we never listen to that part. Will 1:05:01 Can I say this is such a good idea for a game, I can't believe you haven't done it before. Tara 1:05:05 It's very good. Dave 1:05:07 All right, you're ready for your next one, Tara. Tara 1:05:09 Yes. Dave 1:05:29 All right, I'll give you a hint as well, since I've been doling out hints. This song has a history on two shows, but only using the uncredits of one. Tara 1:05:35 Yeah. I know I've heard this five billion times. I'll take give me the hint. Dave 1:05:42 This show debuted twenty seventeen on HBO. Clip 1:05:43 Cause I make all Cut a book and the ball. Tara 1:05:51 And it hurts me. Clip 1:05:51 Can I go to book? Dave 1:05:53 The show stars everybody's least favorite Franco, James. Tara 1:05:57 Oh, the deuce. Dave 1:05:58 The Deuce, good for one point, yes. That was used on the wire at some point, but then became the end credits theme for the Deuce. Tara 1:06:04 All right, so not five million times, I've heard it about thirty times. Clip 1:06:07 Cut a book and bump it up. Dave 1:06:08 Sure. All right, this is question seventeen. Tara 1:06:11 Spread eagle. Dave 1:06:13 It is for Sarah. All right, what's that music from Sarah Debunde? Sarah 1:06:37 Better be right about this alias. Dave 1:06:39 Alias is correct, yes. Four points. Nicely done. Back to Will. I know what I'm playing over the Ask ESG music on Friday. Tara 1:07:06 That's my last two brain cells doing a duet. Sarah 1:07:09 Two holes occurs amazing. Dave 1:07:13 All right, Will, any idea here? Will 1:07:14 Um Ren and Stimpy? Dave 1:07:17 Yeah, good guess. This show debuted in 1999 on Nickelodeon. Will 1:07:23 Squirt Spongebob Square Pants. Dave 1:07:25 You are correct for two points. Tara 1:07:26 Nice. Dave 1:07:26 Yes, SpongeBob SquarePants. Sarah 1:07:27 Nice pull. Dave 1:07:29 Everybody's last question is coming at you. Tara 1:07:31 Oh, boy. Dave 1:07:31 So it feels like a good time for the scores. Tara 1:07:34 It sure is, because Will has eleven points and Sarah and I are tied with 14. Dave 1:07:38 Okay. Mathematically, we could end up with a three-way tie. Let's see how it pans out. We will go to Tara first. Tara, here is your last theme. Sounds like somebody keeps on asking for non to me. Na na na na na n. Na na na na na n. Tara 1:08:14 Oh man, is this Everwood? Dave 1:08:15 Just out of reach. This show debuted twenty ten on the National Broadcasting Company. Clip 1:08:21 Cool, and the barrier and the bar Is a makeup to the book. Tara 1:08:26 Twenty ten. What was going on in twenty ten? Uh Smash doesn't sound like Smash at all. Dave 1:08:36 Sma smash. Yeah. Sarah 1:08:39 So frail. Dave 1:08:39 Big, big Broadway number coming at you. Tara 1:08:42 Boop boop bad doopa doop boop boop boop doopa doopa doop doop Ha ha ha doop It's from that season when Miranda Sings was on Smash. Sarah 1:08:45 Clicky, click, click, click, click. Dave 1:08:47 Marilyn Monroe stuff Your actor is Peter Grausa. Tara 1:08:53 You guys don't remember that? All right, give me the last hint. Clip 1:08:57 It's a make up to the book. Tara 1:08:58 Oh, parenthood. Dave 1:08:59 Parenthood is good for one measly fucking point at the end of the game. Tara 1:09:02 All right. Sarah 1:09:03 Wow Jesus Not really Is this Malcolm in the middle? Dave 1:09:09 Sarah D. Bunting, are you ready? Okay, too bad. Here we go. Tara 1:09:23 Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm. Dave 1:09:32 All right, you got two opportunities here to win with your first two guesses. If you don't get it there, you need to get the last to tie. Yes, it is. Welcome in the middle, correct 2000 on Fox. Tara 1:09:42 Cheers. Dave 1:09:45 Nice four-point answer to end your game. Tara 1:09:46 Very good. Dave 1:09:48 Let's go to Will's last theme. Will, if you got this right, I'm going to go back and change my canon vote. Will 1:10:15 Okay. Um The Mary Tyler Moore Show Um Mary Harbin, Mary Harbin, Mary Harbin. Dave 1:10:16 I mean, off the bat. That is incorrect. This show debuted 1974 on NBC. I was about to tell you this starred Peter Krause, but I was looking at the wrong row. But oh, what if this show starred Melissa Gilbert. Sarah 1:10:37 Oh. Will 1:10:39 Oh, a little house in the prairie One measly fucking point. Dave 1:10:41 Little House on the Prairie is good to wrap it up with one point. That is regulation. Tara 1:10:47 That only applies to me. Dave 1:10:47 That's your, yeah. Will 1:10:49 Sorry. Dave 1:10:51 Let's hear the scores. Tara 1:10:52 All right. Will finished strong with twelve. I had fifteen. Sarah is our victress with eighteen Woo! Dave 1:11:00 Nicely done. Three points, three points, three points spread. Sarah 1:11:02 Finally on the board, yeah. Dave 1:11:04 All right, I have a tie breaker. Let's use it. First person to answer, we'll get a steel meal for future use. Everybody, ready? Shout out when you know it. Tara 1:11:12 Mhm. Dave 1:11:12 Here we go. Tara 1:11:17 WKRP in Cincinnati Nice Woo Sarah You can't hide. Dave 1:11:18 WKRP, correct. Will 1:11:20 Ah, good job. Sarah 1:11:21 Wow, that goes hard, man. Dave 1:11:22 That's why I brought it up earlier. Stick it in your brains. Will 1:11:26 Yeah. Dave 1:11:27 All right, that is it for game time. Congratulations, Sarah, Sarah. Clip 1:11:34 Sarah, Sarah. Sarah 1:11:37 Sarah Do you ever stop and wonder why people hate you? Dave 1:11:40 Well, that is it for another episode of Extra Hot Great. We gave you the scoop on the good and bad on the paper. before going around the dial with stops at Only Murders in the Building, Thirty Rock, and Love Con Revenge. Will wasn't able to get his cannon pitched for Department Q's premiere Rubber Stamped We crowned winners and losers of the week, and Sarah D. Bunting was the winner of this week's game time from John. Next up, it's just Task. Remember. Clip 1:12:11 We're listening. Ah. Dave 1:12:14 I am David T. Cole, and on behalf of Tara Ariano, Sarah D. Bunting Ed will eat. Will 1:12:27 Seriously, I really am sorry about the Louis Cannon submission. I really sorry. I apologize. I didn't mean for that to happen. Tara 1:12:32 Everything that happened after that is your fault. I think we could agree. Dave 1:12:35 Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time right here on Extra Hot Grate. Clip 1:12:40 But have you got the nuts for it? Oh, I have the nuts. Do you? You want to see my nuts? I'll show everyone my nuts right now.