Is Deep Space Nine's Baseball Episode A Home Run?

Clip: [00:00] You are absolutely right, and I couldn't be happier. Dave: [00:08] This is the Extra, Extra Hot Gray Podcast, episode 371 for the September 6, 2025 weekend. I am Fancy Dan David T. Cole, and I'm here with Excessive Chatterer Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah: [00:29] Death to the opposition. Dave: [00:30] And Holo Dog vendor Tara Ariano Baseball this month's forcing pull is from Laura, who writes. Tara: [00:34] Get your holidugs here! Clip: [00:47] As you probably know, the starship Tecumbra is docked at our station. What you may not know is that their captain considers his crew, an all-Vulcan crew, by the way, to be the finest in the fleet. I happen to think that the People sitting at this table comprise the finest crew in the quadrant. You're not going to get much of an argument from this group. I didn't think so. Which is why when their captain challenged us to a contest of courage, teamwork, and sacrifice. I accept it on your behalf. We will destroy them. I was hoping for that reaction. So, when is this clash of the Titans? Two weeks in Holosweet 5. What's the contest? Baseball. Dave: [01:48] Star Trek episodes are like group photos, in that sometimes you have to do a silly one. This is one of those goofy late-season trek episodes that a lot of people actually enjoy. She is curious about what Sarah D. Bunting, our foremost expert on fictional portrayals of baseball and television, thinks about the sports side of this episode. So, before we get into the actual episode itself, let's do our Chen check-in. Tar Ariano, should people watch Deep Space Nine, Season 7, Episode 4? Take Me Out to the Holo Suite. Tara: [02:17] Tara was cute. Dave: [02:18] Sarah. Sarah: [02:19] Yep, same answer. Dave: [02:20] I ain't gonna say skip it. I really hate these types of look at my love of this thing from the 20th century episodes of Star Trek, and this is one of them. And also, I don't like baseball, so. Sorry, Laura. This is who you got to do your episode. And here is the episode. So, Cisco just fucking hates this Vulcan dude, Salt Lock, so fucking much. Tara: [02:41] I did love how much they hated each other immediately because we don't find out why until later, and they are such bitches to each other. Sarah: [02:44] Yeah. Dave: [02:48] Yeah, there's some history there. The Vulcan has docked his ship at Deep Space Nine for repairs. And he challenged the Deep Space Nine crew to a baseball match in the Holo Suite. We never find out why Vulcans are playing baseball, but I guess it doesn't really matter. Hollow Suite, by the way, is different from a hollow deck insofar that Quark charges you to use it. So that is the difference as far as I can tell, because I looked it up. The non-human officers on the station try to make sense of the baseball rules after you hear Cisco telling them that they're going to be playing baseball in two weeks. Reading them off with the same cadence of their tachyon-based techno-babble makes no sense. What's a flyball? Is it actually a fly? You know, all these sort of questions. Soon it's time for the tryouts in the Holo Suite. Sisko just assumes his son is going to be the pitcher, which I don't know if that's the right Tone to set for tryouts, but whatever. I guess he's the captain of the station. Who's going to tell him anything? Nobody. Sarah: [03:46] He's also played by the nephew of an actual major leaguer named Kenny Lofton, so that helps. Weirdly, apparently, I was reading the whole trivia thing for this episode, but weirdly, Rom, who is completely inept at the game in episode, the actor who played Rom was like the best one at the baseballing. which would explain why he was so convincingly terrible, I would say. But this this all hinges on an accidental bunt, but I will let Dave take us through it. Dave: [04:17] The one good thing about this scene is it gives us this great peas and carrots moment from Whorf at the end of this clip. Clip: [04:23] Now first let me introduce you to our pitcher and our secret weapon, Jake the Slider Cisco. Good luck. Tara: [04:33] Very nice. Dave: [04:34] Slider, very nice. Also in this scene, Sisko's son is wearing an Atlanta Braves cap, which maybe by the 24th century isn't named the Braves, but proves even writers for a Sonny Alex show on humanity like Star Trek. Have a few blind spots going into the writer's room. The Vulcan team we learned is called the Logicians. Sarah: [04:52] Yeah. Tara: [04:55] I love that. Dave: [04:57] So, I assume the home team was going to be like the emotionals or something like that, but they are, in fact, the Niners. The first practice arrives. Almost everyone sucks. Includes another fantabulous peas and carrots moment for Worf. I said throw it here. Sisko asks Odo who's not going to be playing baseball if he can ump the game because Odo's a big stick in the mud for the rules. O'Brien is out after the first practice because he banged up his shoulder at practice. Cisco Sweet talks his girlfriend Cassidy to sub in. Rom, who Sarah mentioned is Quark's brother. He sucks at everything to do with baseball. And then Sisko, seeing this motley crew of in-nept baseball players, like turns into the ugly coach. He kicks Rom off the team for sucking so very much, giving Rom some serious self-esteem issues. Tara: [05:51] Yeah, poor Rom. Dave: [05:52] Everyone else rallies around ROM. They threaten to quit the team if Sisko actually cuts him, but ROM declines the offer. O'Brien, the Irish guy, at some point has invented Scotch gum. Tara: [06:08] Sarah, guess the drinker on this panel, Scotch Gum, would you chew? Sarah: [06:13] Oh, God, no. No, no. But and they really made it look like you would think it would. Look. Tara: [06:20] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [06:21] I mean, actually, maybe. Like, maybe the replicator could make something like that good, and that it wouldn't immediately lose flavor and taste like a tongue of a shoe. Tara: [06:26] Mhm. Yes. Sarah: [06:32] I'll try it grudgingly. Dave: [06:36] We got a baseballing montage, including Odo really get into yelling you're out in his office, practicing all his umpiring. We finally get the backstory about the Solak beef, which is they fought once in their Academy days. He beat Cisco in this wrestling match, or whatever happened. And then the Vulcan just like wrote a lot of essays about it, and that's what Sisko is so pissed off about. He just like made them academic papers somehow. Tara: [07:04] I I'm with him. By his count, he's like he wrote one and then he wrote three more and then he wrote twelve and the beginning of all of them is What he learned about humans and their emotionality from this one wrestling match. Dave: [07:17] Yeah. Tara: [07:17] Like, it's just poor scholarship. I see Sisko's point, I'm saying. Dave: [07:21] Sixty percent of the episode has transpired. It's finally game day. And we hear the Federation Anthem, which apparently was created just for this episode. And boy, is it boring! You heard it up top. So we've got 20 minutes of baseball. Tara: [07:37] Did you want more? Dave: [07:38] Hello. Tara: [07:39] Okay. Dave: [07:40] Interesting font note at this point. We see the Niners uniform. The front of the Niners is a font called Handel Gothic. It is the font from the credits that everybody's name is in. And then their name on the back of their jersey is the Star Trek font, bespoke, made during the motion picture era. And it's a take on ITC serif Gothic, which you may have seen in its black form in the Star Wars sequel series. But let's follow that logic. The Niners' uniforms use the credit fonts on their shirts. What do you call it when it's in the universe? Diegetically? Sarah: [08:20] Diagenic. Dave: [08:21] Yeah. Sarah: [08:21] Yeah. Dave: [08:22] And working it backwards, that means these fonts from the credits are the equivalent of athletic fonts back in our day. Tara: [08:30] Mm-hmm. Dave: [08:30] Which is weird to think about. So the Star Trek fonts are jock fonts. Stick that in your underwear and smoke it, Star Trek people. Odo during the game is enjoying himself like Lieutenant Drebbin when he's the umpire in the naked gun at the Dodgers game. He is super into it. That's a lot of fun. He ejects Sisko at some point after a bad call. Sisko touches him, which is something you're not supposed to do in baseball. Apparently, he's ejected. And then I was wondering, why isn't Cisco playing baseball if he's so good at it? Did they just agree that they weren't going to play and they were just going to coach? Is that like that's the test between these two rivals? I thought they should be on the field, but whatever, I don't baseball. I don't know how that works. During the game, of course, the Niners start to get a bit better. Dax does a wall run backflip catch to save something from being a home run. And during the backflip, she loses her breaths. She gets bigger and thicker and then returns to her normal form after she lands on the ground, which I thought was a big feat. Sarah: [09:31] Uh hey, Bruce. Yeah. Tara: [09:34] By the way, Dak's played by Nicole DeBoer, who we know as Laura from Kids in the Hall, the teenager that's always making out with Bruce McCullough like she's chewing gum. Dave: [09:41] That's right, I forgot about that Yeah. So there's more baseballing. One thing I noted is Vulcans are usually very fit and trim, but there's one Vulcan who's got a giant beer gut because he's the baseball Vulcan, I guess. I think he might be the guy that hits the almost Homer. Tara: [09:58] He's John Takrock. Dave: [09:59] That's right. Yet another wharf moment we get during the actual game as a Vulcan runner fails to actually touch the base at home. Sarah: [10:04] That was a good one, Tara. Tara: [10:05] Thank you. Clip: [10:11] He didn't touch home, Nog. Is that true? What do I do? Find him and kill him! Just tag him out! Dave: [10:23] If it wasn't for Worf, I would have really just been absolutely bored with this episode. But I gotta say, Worf saves it for the purposes of this podcast for me. Tara: [10:30] He's pretty great. Dave: [10:32] So eventually, it is 10 to none. It is the bottom of the ninth. Sisko, who is now kind of semi-coaching from the stands. Adopts the strategy of losers, which is let's just have some fun. He puts Ron back in, who's also in the bleachers with him. Rom accidentally bunts because he's just that inept and brings in his son for a run. I am writing this before it happens to see if I've watched TV before. Dot dot dot. Say my notes. Hey, I have. The Vulcans are mad at this display of joy. Hooray for baseball. And at the end, back at the base, everyone bullies the Vulcan captain for being a Vulcan. The end. Tara: [11:18] To manufacture triumph. Dave: [11:19] To manufacture Try a Paza Triapa Well, he's hitting dingers during practice and stuff like that, but he's never actually on the field during the game. Tara: [11:23] Yeah, you're not wrong. It is a huge collection of cliches. I think at some point, Sisko is playing because his girlfriend Cassidy corrects his stance at one point. She's, she's. Yeah. Okay. It is a silly one, like Lara said. This is clearly Ron Moore who wrote this episode, went on to create Battlestar Galactica and Ootlaunder. Dave: [11:44] Yeah. Also famous for his baseball episode. Also famous for his baseball episode. Tara: [11:50] I would like to see that. Just the the bases are the stones or whatever. Anyway. Despite myself, I really got involved in the story of this, and I really felt sad for Rahm. And I was glad when they brought it back, even though the ending of this is just like one of those PSAs where it's like, kindness, pass it on. Like this. Whole episode could be a 30-second spot of that campaign. Sarah: [12:14] Mhm, yeah. Tara: [12:15] But I wasn't bad at it. I'm curious, Sarah, what you thought of Odo's officiating because I know you are a former umpire yourself. Sarah: [12:22] I mean, he was really spreading a lot of mustard on those strike three calls. Like, you do have certain hashtag ump show. Umpires who, like, especially in a strike three call, like at the end of an inning, or it's a big rivalry, or it's the ESPN weekly game, that there just is like the Frank Dreben comp was perfect, Dave. He, yeah, he was very good, and he was doing his like, it's not really possible to practice this stuff and not have someone come in and be like, wow, you've made some choices. As a Little League umpire, I'm deeply familiar, not just with that and with trying to like perfect the punch out to the point where college friends would like to ask me to do it. Tara: [12:56] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [13:06] Like, if I'd lost a bet, I would have to do the strike three call. Like. In the dining room. No, I'm not doing it now. I have not lost a bet. The sort of opacity of baseball rules, like when they're read out, like, of course, they start with the infield fly rule. Tara: [13:22] Of course, that's yep. Sarah: [13:23] And I was like, It really just is an asinine, and like on the micro level, it just is an asinine game. Like, if you're trying to explain it to someone. So I thought they did a good job with that part. And when a plot like this comes down to successful bunting. And just for the record, technically, bunting is indicated by the grip on the bat, and there is intention to it. So strictly speaking, he didn't bunt. It just The ball bounced off his bat into fair territory, but whatever. Like, you know, I love hearing my last name. It's part of the fun of being a baseball fan. And I think that for an episode for an episode like this, that is exactly what Laura said, that it's like, let's do a fun one. It's fine. The baseball is okay. The episode is just too long. And it's not the baseballing. I was entertained by trying to guess who was acting like they sucked at it and who was not acting. I was entertained by Worf. I agree with Dave. Dave: [14:30] Don't you think he would have hit a home run every time he was at bat? Because he has dexterity. He is a warrior. I think he can hit. Something hit a ball with an object. I kind of was expecting every time he got up, he was going to be the only one who was scoring. Of course, that destroys the conclusion. Sarah: [14:45] Yeah. Dave: [14:47] Third act of the baseball game, but I thought that Worf should hit the ball, and the ball would be like split in two or something like that. Sarah: [14:50] But yeah. Or that he, if he misses, that he would do that thing that actual human players do, where they like, Break the bat over their legs or like by cracking it over the batting helmet, like he would absolutely be just fucking destroying equipment every at bat. Dave: [15:01] Right, right. Or he comes out with his bat Aleth and slices the ball in two. Tara: [15:13] Yeah. Sarah: [15:14] Yeah. Yeah, entirely, entirely possible. But his whole like, death to the opposition, like his idea of chatter is just like, I will, you know, cleave you in twain. Like, all right. Warf. Little more baseball trivia in addition to Jake Sisko being played by Kenny Lofton's nephew is that when they're doing the when they're panning down the lineups during the boring Federation Anthem There is one Black Vulcan that was the baseball coach for the actors. And that is the son of, I believe, the son of Ernie Banks, who played for the Chicago Cubs and was like a Chicago baseball ambassador. He died relatively recently and he was the one who said, Let's play two. Tara: [15:54] Hmm. Sarah: [15:56] Like, he just loved playing and was like, Let's play two today. Tara: [15:59] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [16:00] Fortunately for Dave, they didn't. For an episode like this, it was fine. I was happy to see Penny Johnson Gerald. But I absolutely understand the flip side of that. That's like these little names and connections that are meaningless to anyone else? Or like, well, technically that's not what the infield ply rule it. Like, nobody else gives a shit. Dave: [16:21] I also enjoyed that the Federation computers, the L Cars system, you know, that they all use on the Enterprise during Next Generation and Deep Space Nine, actually has baseball diagrams in it in the same style as everything else in the galaxy, which is, you know, I guess they had the internet. The thing that bugs me about the baseball thing is the same with everything, all the affectations that some characters have where they love something from Our time period, or around the time period, Riker with his trombone is that there's 300 years of history that are always ignored. Like, how come Riker can't be really into holographic DJing or something like that. That was like 150 years out from our time. And that's his jam. There was never something like that. There's this ignored history between our time and Star Trek time. And to just feel like they could have had, like, where's Blernsball? Like, Blernsball. It's the evolution of the baseball. Like, why aren't they playing some weird sport? Why isn't that Cisco's obsession? Sarah: [17:20] Or why isn't the sport still extant if it's a difference of a f Few hundred years. Dave: [17:24] This is boring. Sarah: [17:28] Like, yes, it might have evolved into Learnsball or Calvin Ball or whatever. But first of all, baseball is pretty Calvin Ball-y. Second of all, as long as people are writing episodes where a sport can parallel something, when you have a sport in which. Players are coming home. You're never gonna root that out of the culture as it's written in the future. Sorry. Even if you think it's boring, the Metaphor is baked in. And it's like, if they can travel all these distances in like deep subspace, why wouldn't they be able to get a fucking giant score? They would be. So just have it be a current thing still. Dave: [18:08] Sorry, just to backtrack on Worf, when he hits his home run, he hits the baseball so hard it flies out of the station into the wormhole and then lands in some different galaxy. Sarah: [18:18] Yeah, on the field of dreams. Why not? Dave: [18:20] That's right. Sarah: [18:20] It's just like the corn spits it out and it's like, I don't know. Dave: [18:23] Yeah. Tara: [18:23] Yeah. I mean, I feel like this is probably episode 140 something if overall. Like, I'm willing to grant. You've already run through all of your space ideas, and now you're like, okay, we have to do one that could just as easily be a hardcastle in McCormick. Like, there, it doesn't matter. Like, we have to. Sarah: [18:40] Right, right. Tara: [18:41] We have to put out an episode. Therefore, we're not going to invent a whole sport that no one cares about. Sarah: [18:44] Mm-hmm. Tara: [18:47] We're going to do this to try to, you know. Dave: [18:48] Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Tara: [18:50] I know you get that. It's also why, like, just the limitations of what they can do. When they made the crowd blink away, I was like, oh, that's a bummer. And I was like, oh, right. They had to shoot this over days and they couldn't pay all of these extras to be there the whole time. Like, oh. This kind of sucks, but I get it. Dave: [19:05] Yeah, sad for the people of Calabasas. Tara: [19:07] It is sad. Dave: [19:09] I have a theory about why baseball is dead in Star Trek 3 Space Nine times. That's the history I choose to believe. Tara: [19:15] Sure. Dave: [19:16] During the uprising of Khan and the eugenics war, during that whole global conflict, Britain actually decimates the United States and cricket takes over as the batting sport of choice for a couple of years. Tara: [19:26] Mm. Sarah: [19:28] Ah, hmm okay. Tara: [19:29] Mm-hmm. Dave: [19:30] Yeah. All right. Sarah: [19:31] I I accept. Dave: [19:32] Okay, great. Well, it's time for America's other great pastime. I couldn't even get that out. It's Ask EHG. Strike! All right, we are taping this sort of early, so no judgment this week. So, we're gonna just pop right into your questions. First one is from Diapo. who earned his name back. We let him back to the server. So congratulations, Yatho. Sarah: [20:16] Oh, hey, buddy. Dave: [20:18] He wants us to set up the widow Emily Gilmore up on a date. Tara. Tara: [20:24] I think that Emily Gilmore and Carl from Succession, played by David Rash, we just recently saw him again in Dying for Sex as the oncologist. I think those two would probably get along great. I don't foresee her getting too exercised about whatever unethical things he did at Waystar Royko to make his money, as long as he's she spends it on her, honestly. Sarah. Sarah: [20:46] I think it's time for Emily and Diane Lockhart of The Good Fight to enter their heteropessimism era together as a couple. Dave. Dave: [20:57] Jason Momoa's Kaiana from Chief of War. Get away from the city, brain some warriors, let loose, slap them cheeks. Tara: [21:06] By the way, we watched the we caught up last weekend and watched the next three episodes of Chief of War, and it continues to be really good and very entertaining. Dave: [21:11] Yeah, I'm really enjoying it. Sarah: [21:12] All right, noted. Dave: [21:14] It is absolutely dead coffee table television, and I'm here for it. Tara: [21:14] Yep. It's uh yeah, it's not quite shogun level, but it's like sub-shogun, which is not bad. Dave: [21:20] Mm-mm. Yep. Monty, what's the best way to find where things are streaming? I'm still just using Just Watch app, but it feels like there should be a better answer by now. Sarah, any advice for Monty here? Sarah: [21:34] I mean, if you find it, let me know. But I am still using Just Watch, and I have a feeling Tara is, and Dave is using Tara, who's using Just Watch. Tara: [21:42] Yep. Sarah: [21:43] Could be wrong about that. Dave and Tara. Dave: [21:45] Well, okay. A lot of the times I do use Tara as my personal Google and calendar. Sarah: [21:52] Same I suspect that category at the Saga Wars may have come about in the first place because there was some like statutory difficulty distinguishing main from supporting characters on certain shows, and so they're like, Well, why don't we give an ensemble award? Dave: [21:52] And email, but for this, I actually think I do have a better answer. It has never really failed me. Just Google it, and then the sidebar It tells you where that show or episode is streaming with links right to where it is on the web. And I don't know how, and I don't want to think about it, but it also knows what I'm subscribed to. Like it knows I have a paramount subscription. Maybe it's just like a login cookie it can read or something like that. But you're getting a full answer there. So if JustWatch is letting you down, just try Googling it and then looking at the side rail. But Tara, you got any better advice? Tara: [22:26] No, I still use Just Watch too, but I I think you're right that Google's more accurate. The problem and I'm about to admit something that Dave is going to roast me for, but I'm going to do it anyway. I got so sick of the AI results on Google. Dave: [22:37] I can tell you how to turn that off. Tara: [22:39] Okay, I would love it if you did, because I tried to find that out and I couldn't, and I switched my on advice that I heard elsewhere. Switched my default search engine on my browser to DuckDuckGo, which is pretty good, but it does miss out on some stuff that's Google. So, if you can tell me how to turn that off, I will be grateful to you forever, Dave. Dave: [22:57] I will do that. Tara: [22:57] Thank you. Great. Dave: [22:59] Cause I made the vow years ago when we got married. And with an E, what makes an ensemble show? An ensemble show? Like, is there any award show or industry standard, or is it just vibes? Most shows have a main and supporting cast. I'm not sure what the Ensemble Rubicon is. I think it's just there's a lot of people, but they all basically have more or less equal roles to play in the production instead of being the here's your leads. Here's your supporting cast. Think West Wing, where all the credit people basically have kind of the same. Tara: [23:33] That was one of my examples, too. Dave: [23:34] Well, there you go. Tara: [23:35] Mm-hmm. Dave: [23:36] This is why I married you. So we can save time giving examples on podcasts. Tara: [23:39] Yeah. Dave: [23:40] Skip right to Sarah. No, Tara. Tara: [23:42] Yeah, the only awards that have an ensemble category, to my knowledge, is the SAG Awards. And as far as I know, every cast is an ensemble for their purposes. But for me, I would say if I had to define it. An ensemble on a show is a group of seven plus unrelated characters, meaning they're not family, that we basically always see together. So, you know, distinct from a show where there's a family group and a workplace group, both. Where any one character in the cast could potentially be like in the A plot. And so I would say like other examples, the West Wing, as Dave already mentioned, Degrassi or The Office are Yeah. Dave: [24:15] Yeah. So like in the show Bible, they're equally weighted, and then they can play around a bit within an episode as far as who's getting the spotlight more for that one. Tara: [24:24] Right. Yeah, and the office turned into more of an ensemble show as it went on, as like the characters that were sort of more tertiary. Became more secondary and then, like, had bigger parts. But I would say I'm sure they did. Dave: [24:36] And then the fucking office baseball episode. They probably actually did have office baseball episodes. Tara: [24:41] I would say, for instance, they did. I remember now I remember it was from the Idris Elba era. Dave: [24:46] I'd like to retract my office baseball comment, please. Tara: [24:50] Buffy, I would say, just to give an example, is an ensemble show since other than the title character, basically everyone else is on equal footing in terms of their importance. And Dawson's Creek, I would say, is not since there's the core four and everyone else is kind of expendable. Sarah. Sarah: [25:21] Like I mean, cheers might be another example. You wouldn't really say anyone who's on the bar set in every episode is supporting. except when they are in a given episode, unless they're off to Beyond Jeopardy and they're the lead in the episode. Like, I think it's probably as simple as script or line volume. And if everyone's just more or less equal across a season of the show, then it's an ensemble. But I don't I imagine this has been negotiated down to every jot and tittle by SAG. So I'm sure there's a rule, but we don't know what it is because we don't vote on that shit. I can ask my husband, not sure he's paying attention to it either. Dave: [26:01] Char DBS, Char Databases. Who is in the clip that you've been using? Which is this? Clip: [26:15] Got a lot of shows. It's a great time for shows. Dave: [26:19] Who is saying that during the clip? They're asking. That is Mr. David J. Roth from a couple of months ago. He said that on the Prime Show, and I. Cut it in and stuck it in that. So there's your answer, Fishbulp. Damon, which two TV families should go on Family Feud, and what's the most notable moment from that episode? Sarah. Sarah: [26:39] Okay. On one side, the Salingers Charlie, Kearson, Bailey, Julia, and Claudia. Versus the Sopranos, Tony, Carmella, Meadow, AJ, and Janice. The terrified, and in one case, dead-drunk, Salingers don't make much headway against the glorified crew from Jersey. whose fast money performance everyone will be talking about forever when AJ responds to every prompt with pass leaving Meadow to make up the entire two hundred point shortfall herself, which she does with points to spare. Tara Yeah, she does. Tara: [27:16] It's going to be the Schwoopers of long story short versus the Bears Autos of the Bear. And what happens is everyone in the studio audience goes deaf from both teams screaming. Dave. Dave: [27:28] I've got the cranes from Frasier and the Gemstones from Righteous Gemstones. Tara: [27:32] Mhm. Dave: [27:33] Roz is super attracted to Baby Billy and flirts with him the whole game. And then we get this and a face-off between Frasier and Baby Billy. Name something people do before going to bed. This is Frazier. Read a sonnet by Browning. Baby Billy. Pop a couple blue pills and rev the engine, baby. Six points. Frazier is perplexed and furious. Rube Goldberg has our next question. If you were on Drunk History, what story would you tell and who would you cast in the various roles of your story? I am first. I'm going to go with a guy named Vasily Arkapov. He was a Soviet sub-officer during the Cuban Missile Crisis. His sub was detected by the US Navy. Then his sub's communications died. And then the brass on the sub assumed that war had broken out, and that's why their communications were dead. And we're preparing to fire a nuclear torpedo at an American vessel in the area. So Vassili, being the third of the three that sort of needed to turn their keys to make it all happen. Absolutely refused to use the nukes. He wasn't really sure of the whole thing that it was actually happening and probably saved the fucking world from global thumb or nuclear war. It's just like this one moment in time. And it's not the first time a Soviet officer or soldier has saved the world. There's another one from, I think, a few years before this. He did it as well. As far as casting goes, I'm sorry to say this, Tara, but Vasily looks like Michael from Peaky Blinders. So we're going to have to bring that dude in. Tara: [29:11] Oh, sucks. Dave: [29:12] I know you don't like him. Tara: [29:13] No, I don't. Dave: [29:14] As Kennedy, we're going to go with Glenn Powell, Seth Rogan as Khrushchev, Oscar Isaac as Castro, and Andrew Reynolds as McNamara. Tara: [29:16] Mhm. Yep. Mhm. Sarah: [29:21] Yep. Dave: [29:25] Because they kind of look the same. Sarah: [29:25] Oh, wow, I love that. Tara: [29:25] I love that. That's really good. Dave: [29:27] Yep. All right, Sarah, what is your scenario? Who are you casting? Sarah: [29:31] My scenario is the kidnapping of Charles Lindbergh Jr. , starring Alexander Skarsgård as Lucky Lindy, Alison Bree as his wife and Maura Lindberg, Christoph Waltz as Bruno Hauptmann, Ted Danson as Ransom Liaison John Jaffsey Condon. John Carroll Lynch as Jersey State Police Chief Norman Schwartzkopf Senior Yes, relation. Patton Oswalt as future FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover. and as Governor Hoffman, who begged Haubtman to just tell them anything so that he wouldn't have to go to the electric jay or Max Greenfield, because I looked it up and it's actually a shocking similarity facially. Plus, he'd be hilarious. Tara. Tara: [30:12] I would do it on the founding of socialized medicine in Saskatchewan. Shout out. With Kiefer Sutherland playing his own grandfather, Tommy Douglas. Sarah: [30:21] Oh, I love that. Dave: [30:23] Prof reader, what shows could have been an email? Tara, what shows could have been an email? Tara: [30:28] Deal or no deal, Sarah. Sarah: [30:30] Oh my god, pick a true crime docuseries from the last five years? That. But if I have to pick just one, inventing Anna. Dave. Dave: [30:38] Obi-Wan Kenobi. Tara: [30:40] Oh, yeah. Sarah: [30:41] Oh, God, yeah. Dave: [30:42] It's just a memo. What happened that one week in between the things we care about? All right. Carvin some space whales had three more battles with Darth Vader for some reason. Diana Joy, speaking of EHG lore, as we were about a week ago, what is your personal favorite bit of podcast lore? Sarah. Sarah: [31:02] Once I got this one in my head, I could not get it out as the answer, and I don't know if it counts because it's from Mark I. But there was a legendary episode on which I was a guest. And at that time, it was in Tara and Dave's relatively modest one bedroom apartment. They would set up a kind of a card table, like a folding, just like event table. Joe and I would sit at it and then Tara was sort of at the head of it. We get to game time. Tara is like way out in the lead for the season, and then Dave announces that all the all the Dave points are being conferred onto Joe. or no points up to this point counted. And this was like, I'm gonna say 15 episodes worth of Game Time win points for Tara. And The way the table was laid out, Joe is not an insubstantial person, and he was like trying to get behind me and shrink. I have not been that afraid. Like, it was really scary. Like, the temperature dropped 80 degrees in like seven seconds. Tara was like, What? Tara: [32:12] No recollection of this at all. Sarah: [32:12] And Joe and I are like, should we just leave? We're like trying to Run through a closed window. This was a six-floor apartment. Like, it was terrifying. I don't know if that counts. I don't know if you still have audio of that anywhere. Dave: [32:23] Sure. Oh, yeah. Sarah: [32:25] Dave thought it was so funny. Joe and I really sincerely thought we were going to be physically harmed. Dave: [32:27] Yep. Sarah: [32:30] It was really scary. Fucking Dave. Dave: [32:32] Yeah, I don't care about standings and scores and stuff like that. So I think what I did was you can convert day points into wins. Sarah: [32:38] Do you care about covering up a manslaughter that happened in your home? Because that really was about to happen. Dave: [32:44] No, I'll be dead. It won't be my problem. Tara: [32:46] You can't you care when you're playing. You care a lot. Dave: [32:49] Yeah, absolutely. But not when I'm the runner. Tara: [32:51] Uh-huh. Dave: [32:51] Yeah, then it doesn't matter. Tara: [32:52] Yeah. Mm-hmm. Dave: [32:53] But when I'm playing, it's deadly serious and everything should be. Sarah: [32:53] Yeah, clearly. Oh god, it was so scary. Dave: [32:56] Buy the book. Sarah: [32:57] It was like 15 years ago. I still remember it extremely clearly. Dave: [33:01] Yeah, it's one of those moments where Tara gets mad and they're really quiet. You're like, oh boy, fucked up. Sarah: [33:06] Okay. No, that's fine. I was like, this is so not fine. I help, help me. Dial nine, dial one. Someone help us. Dave: [33:15] Many years ago, I'm going to guess at least 10 years ago, when we had extra credits that needed a story about a TV character doing something, we had to make it up. I would add to my list of the terrible things that would happen to Mr. Bates on Downton Abbey. Sort of like kept track of the story. And there were like four or five things that happened over the course of a year being asked extra credit things. Like, I think he lost his other leg. He got divorced and ended up working in like a dirty cannery or something like that in the London docks. It got really dark. I remember that. Like, it wasn't funny. It was just like, how can we make Mr. Bates' life even more miserable? Sarah: [33:51] Yeah, how can we debase him utterly? Uh-huh. Dave: [33:54] It really was. It really was that. I think maybe I'm the only one who enjoyed that because I was really on a I hate Mr. Bass character Bender. I would put that up as my favorite bit of lore. Tara. Tara: [34:04] I didn't realize this was supposed to be lore about our podcast. I just have general podcast lore about a different podcast. Dave: [34:10] Oh fucking is this about I bring you gifts or whatever? Tara: [34:13] What? Dave: [34:13] Is this about that podcast I said no gifts again? Tara: [34:13] No. No. Dave: [34:16] Okay, good. Tara: [34:17] Do you want to cut that? Dave: [34:18] No. Tara: [34:19] Bitch. Sarah: [34:20] It's happening again. Tara: [34:22] It's not about that. Sarah: [34:22] Help me. Tara: [34:23] Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers both auditioned for Saturday Night Live at the same time. Sarah: [34:24] I'm afraid. Tara: [34:27] And as we know, only Bowen got it. In fact, by the time you listen to this, we may be hearing that he's leaving the show before next Season that is strongly rumored to be occurring. We don't know that in the time machine on August 28th. Anyway, they have subsequently said the months. After his casting, they were rough for their friendship, they continued to tape Las Culturistas through this period of tension. And I have listened to those episodes and I had no idea. So, congratulations to both of them on their acting because I could not tell. Sarah: [34:53] Wow. Tara: [34:56] I don't have any memories about our podcast, including the ones that were mentioned today. Sarah: [35:02] Blackout rage. Dave: [35:03] Ambrose Chapel, would you rather have to watch T V in black and white forever or have to watch T V with no audio forever, but with subtitles? Black and white, easy. I need to hear T V. That's half of it. I can do without color if I have audio. Tara: [35:16] Yeah, same. Dave: [35:16] Tara. Alright. Sarah. Tara: [35:18] Sarah. Sarah: [35:19] Yeah, I mean, I use it to fall asleep with slash to enough that no audio is no bueno, can't do it. Dave: [35:26] All right, L Triple B is here with our crackpot question of the week. Is The Wire the best example of a significant T V series where the principal cast was comprised mostly of unknown working actors who never achieved a significant amount of fame after the show? Tara, please answer this crackbot question of the week. Tara: [35:50] I mean, I don't know, man. Idra Selba is pretty famous, and Amy Ryan is an Oscar nominee, possibly more than once over. I don't remember. Dave: [35:58] Uh-huh. Tara: [35:58] She's definitely nominated for Emmys. Dave: [36:00] Absolutely not. There's chalk a block full of people that are quite famous. McNulty, he's got he's working up the Up the Wazoo. Bunk. He's on Elsbeth right now. There's lots of characters that have gone on to do lots of stuff, and I know their names, even though I just refer to them as their characters. Sarah. Sarah: [36:21] Well, yeah, there's like a pipeline to into that Levinson Fontana verse. Like Oz Homicide. A lot of them hadn't been on those and then ended up on various Law and Order franchises after their Wire season. And I'm also not sure if we're being asked for the best exemplar or the best show that fits the Oh, okay. Dave: [36:40] We're just telling them that they were crackpot for this question. Sarah: [36:43] Yeah, you're a crackpot. Walking Dead would fit this much better, in my opinion. Tara: [36:46] Oh, yeah, true. Dave: [36:48] Michael K. Williams, Dominic West, Idris Elba, Lance Reddick, Wendell Pierce, Amy Ryan, Michael B. Sarah: [36:53] Mm-hmm. Dave: [36:55] Jordan, Pablo Schreiber, Aiden Gillen. Tara: [36:57] Yeah, he's around. Ah. Sarah: [37:00] Yeah, sure. Dave: [37:00] Clark Peters, I mean, he's more Method Man. We all know Method Man. Tara: [37:04] We do. Dave: [37:05] And that's just the first. Oh, David Const. David the Constable. He's a form of the wire, too. Don't forget about him. Tara: [37:13] Right, Tom McCarthy. Dave: [37:13] Yeah, lots of names. Dominic, I always played the same guy, Lombrazos. Tara: [37:20] Yeah, uhhuh Fuzzy Dunlop's friend Yeah, for this show, I mean, I already sort of feel like America's Gut Talent is the most just for freaks, honestly. Sarah: [37:20] Lombardozi Uhuh, Presbo No Jasus. Dave: [37:21] Yeah, so yeah, that's that's why. All right. Well, if you'd like to contribute to the crackpot question of the week, you know where it is. All right. Well, let's redeem LBBB with their next question. I just finished watching the America's Got Talent 20th Anniversary Clip. 20th anniversary clip show. This got me thinking: should talent competition shows like this be evaluated on how successful past winners are? Sarah. Sarah: [37:50] I mean, first okay, once again, we have to define some terms. Evaluated like if You come up short, the show gets canceled because I kind of don't hate that idea. Like, if you don't have a certain percentage of winners after five to seven seasons who are now or still. Names in that competitions industry, then you're canceled. I mean, oh my God, Tyra would have been out of our collective faces so much faster in that event, or just like do her talk show, which I didn't have to truck with. So. Yeah, I'm I'm okay with that. Like maybe every now and then a an audit, a success audit. And if it's like If you have one guy who has like a QVC show about cookware and that's it, you're out. Dave: [38:36] A T V meritocracy would be terrible for a lot of people. Tara: [38:47] Like, I feel like the Yeah, the I and the best outcome you can hope for really is, you know, having a residency in Las Vegas at like some off strip hotel. Sarah: [38:51] Yeah. Mm-hmm. Tara: [39:00] So I think America's Got Talent is already doing what it's supposed to, which is to expose these people to you, not necessarily launch their careers. But I don't know how the voice is still a going concern because I cannot name a single person that ever won that show. Sarah: [39:17] And Idol is back, and I can't name of any of them either, and it's been let back for like five years or something. Like, okay. Dave: [39:24] All right, here comes your ask, ask, ESG question for this week. It comes from Vandy. What are your favorite gay, straight, and platonic love relationships on TV? You can answer all or some of these. We're going to pick three separate winners, one for each category. And go to the Ask Ask ESG channel under Discord. Plop your answers there. We'll be back soon with judgment on that. It is time for the tiny cannon presenting is Tara. Tara: [39:55] Hello. The reason that Marge gets a job in Marge Gets a Job, which is the title of The Simpsons Season 4, Episode 7, is that the family home needs a very expensive foundation repair. Marge applies at the power plant, and thanks to a C V heavily embellished by Lisa, I thought Muddy Waters wrote that song, says Smithers in Marge's job interview, she gets hired, and when Mr. Burns Spots Marge at her desk for what he may think is the very first time. It's not. He falls in love at what he thinks is first sight. This makes him more receptive to her suggestions about improving the workplace. than he presumably would be anyone else's, as we see when he stopped by her workstation with gifts, Clip I. Clip: [40:37] I just came to give you the orchids and fragrant bath oils I lavish upon all my employees. Oh, aren't you nice? Gee, this makes me wonder why morale here is so low. I am the angel of death. The time of purification is at hand. Tara: [40:59] Okay, so What we heard at the end of that was the camera panning over three employees on the CCTV. The first is sobbing on his folded arms. The second is taking shots, and the third is polishing a shotgun and, as we heard, muttering threats. Marge thinks Mr. Burns could do better by his staff. Clip two. Clip: [41:18] Well, you could give them healthier snacks. Theme days? You mean like Child Labor Day? Actually, I was thinking of Funny Hat Day. Ooh, and how about piping in some Tom Jones music? That always cheers me up. Tara: [41:33] Smashcut two, clip three. Clip: [41:36] What's new, Pussycat? Whoa, whoa, whoa. What's new, Pussycat? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Tara: [41:46] So, this is mostly a visual joke. What's new pussycat is playing over the same three employees, except now each of them is wearing a funny hat, and the third creeps out of frame with his gun as the shot changes back to Mr. Burns and Marge. But the editing, character design, and implied speed with which Mr. Burns adopted his crush's ideas combined with the boisterous song from her favorite artist It's magic. This is what needle drops are for. I hope you will agree and induct it into this tiny canon. Dave: [42:17] All right. Thank you, Tara. Sarah, you want to go first or last here? Sarah: [42:20] I'm gonna go last, please. Dave: [42:22] All right. Well, I love this needle drop. A couple details that you didn't talk about when they pan over to the third guy the second second time. He gets up. You see it in the CZ TV, but he also, like, the last thing he does just as he goes out of frame is his shotgun. I don't remember the first hat, but the second hat of the drinker is a moose hat with antlers. Tara: [42:44] Yes. Dave: [42:45] And then the crazy guy polishing the gun has a beanie with a propeller on it. Tara: [42:49] Mhm. I think the first guy has a sombrero. Dave: [42:51] That's right. Yeah. Absolutely great visual joke from Peak Simpsons era. They didn't really use a lot of songs and stuff up to this point. So this is one of the first examples of them sort of dipping into that. They do it all the time, I'm sure, now. Just because it's easy. But this is also the episode with Tom Jones in it. So it does actually pay off even later. Tara: [43:08] Uh-huh. Dave: [43:10] And that scene is also good. So, yeah, great visual gag, nice and mean-spirited, just the way I like it. And a fantastic needle drop. Sarah. Sarah: [43:19] I like that the needle drop is not the Tom Jones song that you always hear, that it's this one. It's definitely funnier. But this is also a really good example of how The Simpsons, like what you see is the post-winnowing process of like probably dozens and dozens of Hat options, pop, mid-century pop suggestions. Dave: [43:43] Yeah, yeah. Sarah: [43:47] And then once they decided it was Tom Jones, like which one is going to be Kind of inappropriately cheery, but also implying doing it. Which one is going to provide the highest contrast? And then it's like you have a set of three. That you see, and then it's funny hat day, and then you have that same set. Like it is very simple and straightforward, but because it's The Simpsons, you don't necessarily think that much about how easy it is to Put a hat on a funny hat in a joke set like this. And just from like a process writing standpoint, it's extremely satisfying. But even if you're not watching it for that, it's viscerally satisfying because all of the choices that were made were correct. And the result is almost an egg where you're like, I don't know why this is perfect. It's self contained, but it is. Tara: [44:40] It's a triumph of editing on every level, including the speed with which, and pipe in some Tom Jones, Smash Cut to that. Sarah: [44:43] Mhm. Yeah, I agree. Dave: [44:48] And I think what's new pussycat was selected because it has the wo wo woe in it, which is has this undulation that sort of plays into The scene and the way the camera pans very well. Tara: [44:58] Mm-hmm. Dave: [45:02] So, yeah, it was very well conceived and edited for sure. Sarah: [45:05] Mhm. Dave: [45:05] All right, let's put this to the vote. Sarah D. Bunting, what say you? Tiny Cannon worthy or not? Sarah: [45:10] I say whoa, whoa, whoa. Uh, yes, I say yes. Dave: [45:13] All right, I'm going to say yes too. So what's new, Pussycat from The Simpsons? You are hereby inducted into the extra hot, great, tiny needle drop cannon. Clip: [45:26] One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven. Dave: [45:35] All right, we are taping in advance. So we're swapping out winners and losers of the week common not quite for not quite top 11 lists. I will go first with the not-quite top 20 TV show titles that you can name your next dog after with my blessing. Alf, Mork, Bones. Dexter, fleabag, emergency exclamation point, and then there's Maud Let me tell you about my new best friend, Barnaby Jones Hannibal, Vicar of Dibley Ozark Colombo Taxi Millennium Banshee Atlanta Room 222 Fish, and finally for your bonded pair of adopted dogs, Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. Sarah: [46:42] Oh Not Quite 11 notable and a question mark TV episodes about tennis to send you into the U. Tara: [46:43] I really thought it was going to be fish and then fish police. Dave: [46:47] All right, Sarah Debunding, not quite top 11 list, please. Gimme, gimme, gimme. Sarah: [46:58] S. Open Finals this weekend in chronological order. The Jefferson season two, episode twenty three. Tennis, anyone? George accepts a judge's invitation to join the Windsor Tennis Club. For networking purposes, only to learn that Judge Markle wanted a quote token minority that would get local media off the club's back, and B is played by Keene Curtis, aka the salty owner of Melville's on cheers. Number two, The Captain and Teniel Season One, Episode One. A skit with Tony and Daryl mastering the art of tennis. Guests included Jackie Gleason, Penny Marshall, and half the cast of Welcome Back Cotter, which is a real September of 76 vibe. Number 3. The Hardy Boys Nancy Drew Mysteries Season 2 Episode 10 Nancy Drew's Love Match Nancy has to clear a kleptomaniac classmate's name when jewelry starts going missing at a Las Vegas casino during a tennis tournament. Marcia Brady McCormick as the red herring klepto Number four, Charlie's Angels Season 2, Episode 14, Game Set Death. Side note, you would not believe how many terrible, clunky plays there are in Game Set Match. You'll be hearing some more. Player Sandy Keller almost dies when someone tampers with the shower door. This is one of several incidents plaguing women's tennis tourneys, so the Angels investigate. I don't understand how the shower door plays into it. I am not watching this to find out. Farah Fawcett had already peaced out by this time. It's a Cheryl Teagues episode. Good luck to everybody. Magnum P. I. , Season 3, Episode 9, Mix Doubles. This aired in December of 82. Magnum is tasked with protecting a young tennis pro who is being threatened. She's a spoiled little brat. All is not as it seems. Several rackets here. Said Brady Pro is played by Kim Richards. Yes, that Kim Richards Number six, Murder She Wrote, Season 2, Episode 20. Menace Anyone? Mid 86. Quote: Jessica attends a tennis tournament as the guest of honor, because of course she does, although why? And quote, struggles to protect her former student Carol when her boyfriend is blown up in her car and she is the only suspect. Some unclear antecedents there, but here's what you need to know. Carol is Linda Hamilton, and this also stars Brian Cranston. Tara: [49:28] Now, I'm going to go to the next stage. Sarah: [49:29] Number seven, Golden Girls Season 4, Episode 19, Till Death Do We Volley. This is a late 1989 episode in which, quote Dorothy blames herself when her friend and former classmate Trudy, Anne Francis, dies suddenly while playing tennis. Mostly notable because D The lead photo on IMDb is of Estelle Getty in her usual Sophia drag, including straw pocketbook, but she has a visor on and a tennis racket under her arm. Sure. Number eight, Tara Sings With Me If You Know the Words. Beverly Hills 90210, Season 1, Episode 19. April is the Cruelest Month. Tara: [50:05] Of course. Sarah: [50:06] Matthew Perry and his original teeth as a Menendez Manke write a screenplay suggesting he'd like to kill his tennis dad, who was an attorney in all the president's men. Brandon won't let that happen. Don't worry. Number nine, Law and Order Mothership Season 4, Episode 21, doubles the Kerrigan Harding one, starring John Hurd as a tennis dad, and finally. Tara: [50:23] Waiting for this one. Sarah: [50:30] Number 10. Sports Night, Season One, Episode 17. How Are Things in Glaucomora? Wrapping us up chronologically in March of 99. A tennis match's late conclusion throws off the broadcast and Dana and Gordon's relationship. The last of the Dear Louise episodes, generally agreed upon as one of the series's weakest, but at least they're over, and so is this list Oh, we sure do. Tara: [50:55] I've got the not quite top 11 other baseball or basically baseball episodes. Some of them are about softball. One's about Bluern's ball. Don't be pedantic about it. I'm gonna. Start with an honorable mention that's just a sketch. Girls of Summer from The Kids in the Hall. It's the one where Buddy Cole coaches a lesbian softball team. Getting to the list proper, counting down from least best to best. Number 10, Beverly Hills 9020, Season 1, Episode 20, Spring Training. Forever in Our Hearts is the one where Dylan wears those stretchy pants and looks like a stick insect. We miss him. Number nine, Frasiers Season four, episode 16, The Unnatural. No, not the one where Fraser's secretly an alien. That's the X-Files episode of that title. This is the one where. Bulldog tells a visiting Freddy that Frazier is the best player on the KACL softball team, so Freddie wants to come see him play. As we all know, Frazier sucks. Number eight, The King of Queens Season 2, Episode 6, Dug Out, D-O-U-G, of course. Long story short. Everyone ends up in Met's jail. Number seven, Band of Brothers Season One, Episode 10 points. Easy companies playing baseball when they find out, spoiler, the Empire of Japan has surrendered and WW2 is over. Number six, Futurama, Season 3, Episode 16. A Leela of Her Own. This is the one where Leela becomes the first female player in Major League Blerns Ball. Number five, arrested development season two, episode seven, switch hitter. When Job goes to work for Stan Sitwell, George Sr. is convinced Stan only hired Job as a ringer for the Sitwell softball team. Number four, News Radio Season 2, Episode 20, Coda. Mr. James, Bill, Dave, and a put-upon editor try to make a promo for WNYX's baseball coverage and go insane. After it all gets cut up, we get, I'm Bill McNeil on crack. I like boys. Number three, curb your enthusiasm, season four, episode six, the carpool lane. On his way to a Dodgers game, Larry hires a sex worker so that he can use the titular lane. Saved a guy from prison for real. We'll link it in the show notes. We'll link the Kids in the Hall sketch as well. Number two, Seinfeld season three, episode 34 and 35. It's a two-parter, The Boyfriend, aka the Keith Hernandezode. And of course, you were all waiting for it. And here it is. Number one. The Simpsons Season 3, Episode 17, Homer at the Bat, the one with all the real baseball players, Lord Palverston, Pitt the Elder, the best baseball episode of anything ever. Love that one. Clip: [53:43] And I think I can put the pal back in principal and I'll put the super. Bagging Superintendent. Sarah: [53:57] It's the second cough. Speaking of excellent Simpsons timing, which we were just doing in just about an hour of show, which, grandpa's. You didn't get to hear. If you kick up that pledge, you will get to hear all about LBBB's crackpot ideas about the wire. We talked about not quite 11 TV shows that you can use to name your dog with Dave's permission. Would we rather have To watch TV in black and white or with no audio, the answers to these, and whether we could stand the Deep Space Nine baseball episode, all of that is in the main show, and we would love to have you along. Just kick up that pledge. But We are just as glad that you are here now because school is back in for another autumn. It's time to look at the good, the bad, and the demonic of academic admins on TV. We have each brought three, and to keep it less predictable and less duplicative, which I'm not sure is a word, I. Uh, decreed that we could not use Skinner of The Simpsons, Teasley of Beverly Hills 90210, or Coleman of Abbott Elementary because it was a little too first thought. I wanted us to think more about it. I tried to avoid principal types that I thought my co hosts might pick. So let's see if I was right about those and start with Dave, who I hope picked Cinnamon J because I avoided it for him. Tara: [55:17] Sam Mm-hmm. Sarah: [55:23] David T. Cole, who is your first principal type? Dave: [55:26] Well, this was going to be my third reveal, but since you just mentioned it, let's go with Cinnamon Jay Scudworth from Clone High. Not only my favorite principal, but one of my favorite characters in TV animation at least. Tara: [55:38] Raise the roof, raise it. Dave: [55:39] Raise it. Sarah: [55:39] Raise it. Clip: [55:41] I think this is an issue we should talk about. in person. Maybe we could have dinner! Perhaps the Olive Garden. It's like eating in the private kitchen of a delightful Italian stereotype. We were thinking somewhere more intimate. Your house. Next Friday. No dairy. Please. Damn it! I haven't been to the Olive Garden in like forever! Dave: [56:10] I use damn it a lot. I use damn it! Tara: [56:12] Damn it. Dave: [56:12] I have it, something, something, something forever. Tara: [56:14] Mm-hmm. Dave: [56:15] Principal Jay Scudworth from Clone High. Is grooming all the clones of Clone High for his own nefarious purposes, which is to create Cloney Island theme park. That is his grand design. Of course, he has his psychic Mr. Butlatron. A fantastic character, at least in the first season. We we don't talk about the second season that much because it was yeah, like the subliminal card in that one episode says, Principal Jay Scudworth is your favorite character. Tara: [56:35] Or the third season. Sarah: [56:35] No, let's not. Tara: [56:44] My favorite thing about that clip you played is from back when Clone High had a really good website and I read every single fucking page of it. One of their t pieces of trivia about that line is that originally in the script it was it's like eating in the kitchen of a offensive Italian stereotype or possibly racist. It was one or the other. And then they just change it to delightful and it was fine. And I think works just as well, honestly. Dave: [57:06] Yeah, it really does. Sarah: [57:07] Mm-hmm. Dave: [57:08] All right, who's next, Sarah? Sarah: [57:09] I'll go next, and this one's a gamble, because he's Canadian. So I hope people had backups. But I went with Daniel Radditch. That's of the Degrassiverse, played by Dan Woods. I believe the last we hear of the character is when he's transferred out of the School system after a school shooting that happened in the early aughts in that set of shows. But I distinctly remember watching the episode when it seems like the school's gonna shut down. but then it's like converted to a magnet school where they can just be grade nine somewhere else. I for I forget the premise, but the students are all very relieved, and so were my brother and I, watching it two episodes at a time on P B S. And then they're bummed out all over again because their homeroom teacher, Mr. Radditch, is now their principal at the new joint. In any event, as an authority figure you were supposed to not be psyched about because he was an enthusiastic dweeb, he actually seemed Generally, like a pretty solid dude, just that dweeby teacher that, of course, you don't like them because you're 13 and you don't like anything. Tara. Tara: [58:18] I also tried to avoid ones that I thought anyone else was gonna pick, so I'm gonna start with Doctor Miller, played by Marin Hinkle from Speechless. This was a three season sitcom a few years ago about the family of a kid who has disabilities and uses a wheelchair, is going to public school for the first time with an aide played by the great Cedric Yarbrough. So Dr. Miller is the principal. She is very excited to have this student join the community and to do everything right by him for his needs and accommodations. Is really not prepared to deal with a mother who is played by a mini driver who's used to fighting administrators for resources for her child. And so they, you know. Know, good intentions all around, but it's never quite enough. And she doesn't really totally know what she's doing, but she's really enthusiastic about trying to do right by him. So, Dr. Miller from Speechless. Back to Div. Dave: [59:12] My second choice is Communities Dean Pelton. This is a clip of him dressed up as a giant nude payday bar, you know, the peanut candy bar to deliver some bad payday news. Sarah: [59:23] Oh, sure. Clip: [59:27] Yes, Is my freestyle wrap apology? Well, I'm a peanut bar and I'm here to say your checks will arrive on another day. Another day, another dime, another rhyme, another dollar, another stuffed shirt with another white collar. Criminals, Wall Street taking the pie and all the black man gets is a plate of white lies Prisons recruiting them police be shooting them rap all disluding them labels all diluting them Barack Obama is scaring me Cause I don't swallow knowledge and I Spin it for free! Let me clear my throat! Ha ha ha! I don't know what that wants. I don't. I don't know what that wants. Sarah: [1:00:06] Oh, God. Dave: [1:00:07] And then you just see a man dressed as a payday bar run away from the office. Sarah: [1:00:08] Oh. Oh my God, excellent choice. Dave: [1:00:15] Great bit of trivia from that clip. I guess I think it was during COVID when all the shows were doing benefit reunions and table reads and stuff like that. Donald Glover said of that, the best rap done by anybody dressed like that ever. Sarah: [1:00:31] Yeah, yeah. Tara: [1:00:32] Yeah, accurate, I'm sure. Dave: [1:00:33] So it's great. I don't know about the later years because we sort of bailed on community somewhere in season three, I think, but I always thought they used Dean Pelton in the right amount on the show. Like he never outstayed his welcome, but when he was there, it was usually bang on funny. So I really enjoy his contributions to the show. Back to Sarah. Sarah: [1:00:54] My second principal type is Grace Musso. That's Parker Lewis' adminemesis on Parker Lewis Can't Lose. She is a complete cartoon. She is always machinating to get Parker expelled. Melanie Chardoff, who is mostly a voice actor, she did Rugrats parent voices for like 15 years or something. She's also a like she holds a couple of patents. I just learned yesterday. Chardoff clearly had a ball playing Muso and totally got the weird surrealist energy of the show and her mustache twirling. Character was absolutely part of that. I always liked that she was in it, but she didn't they didn't use her too much, I didn't think. Given that it was a it was a show about Parker Lewis and he's supposed to triumph. But she had a lot of damn it moments as well. So, yeah, she it was a big it called for playing big and she did that really well. Tara. Tara: [1:01:50] My second principal, only because I thought Dave might pick Jess from New Girl. I'm going to say her predecessor at Banyan Canyon Academy, Genevieve, played by the hilarious Lucy Punch. So great. The most Southern California educator I think I've ever seen, which is especially surprising because she's English. She's loony in the ways that you would expect from someone in her position. There's a lot of like having feeling conversations is a big part of her educational philosophy, but she can also be reasonable and fair, especially to Jess. And even if it happens off screen, she gets to have sex with Sam, played by David Walton, and that is important to me. So Genevieve from New Girl is number two. Back to Dave. Dave: [1:02:33] All right, last picks. I wish I did pick Jessica Day because I kind of fucked up my last pick and I only found out about it at the 11th hour. So I'm going to take the L on this one. Because I would have put real good money on the fact that Greg Davies played a principal or a headmaster or something like that on In-Betweeners, but he was just sort of like a teacher in charge of a chunk of the school day. Tara: [1:02:57] He was on my alts list for sure, so you're not the only one who made that error. Sarah: [1:03:01] I think that counts. That he's like sort of an assistant dean of mornings. Dave: [1:03:04] Kind of, yeah. Tara: [1:03:04] Yeah. Dave: [1:03:05] All right, well Okay, thank you. Sarah: [1:03:06] I don't know. I'll count that. Tara: [1:03:08] Take it, yeah. Sarah: [1:03:08] That's fine. Dave: [1:03:09] So he plays Mr. Gilbert, and he is sort of the villain of the show, if it has one. He's definitely the antagonist, I would say. Tara: [1:03:17] Mhm. Dave: [1:03:18] Played by Greg Davies from Taskmaster. I fucked up, I think, but nevertheless, I'm going to present you with his commencement speech, which I think paints an accurate picture of him. Clip: [1:03:29] I will forget each and every one of you almost immediately. So, if you do find yourself at a loose end next year, I think it might be nice to pop in and see how we're getting on. Don't. This isn't the Dead Poets Society, and I'm not that bloke on BBC Two who keeps getting kids to sing in choirs. I especially don't want to hear about how well you're settling down at uni, or how much growing up you've done in the past twelve months. At best, I am ambivalent towards most of you, but some of you I actively dislike for no other reason than your poor personal hygiene or your irritating personalities. I hope I've made myself clear on this point, and in case any of you think I'm joking, I'm not. I assure you that once my legal obligation to look after your best interest is removed, I can be one truly nasty fucker. Good luck with the rest of your lives and try not to kill anyone. Reflects very badly on all of us here. Dave: [1:04:29] All right, that's Greg Davies as Mr. Gilbert, my third quasi-correct pick. Sarah. Sarah: [1:04:35] Do you have any honorable mentions you want to talk about, or do you want to wait until we're done? Dave: [1:04:39] I don't, actually, because there are a lot of other principles I came across, but none that really tickled me to the point where I wanted to put them on the list. Sarah: [1:04:42] Okay. Spoke to you. Dave: [1:04:49] There's ones that I remember, like the super nervous principal from Beavis and Butthead, that was always just going and stuff like that. But he's not like a compelling character, so I'm going to stick with my three. Tara: [1:04:58] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [1:04:59] Right. Okay. My last one is Van Clemens from Veronica Mars. The principal, Alan Moorhead, is Big time problematic, like impregnated a student, problematic. But Vice Principal Clemens, while buying in completely to the O-9 narrative about Veronica and the early going, also seems from the very beginning to understand. That he's never going to outwit her, and from a moral standpoint, should probably not bother trying to. We see him almost immediately in the pilot. He's doing a search of Veronica's locker. It does not Go well for him when the only thing in the locker is a picture of him with a heart drawn around it and his customary face. And his attitude, even then, in that like fourth scene of the show is like. Mars is gonna Mars. Their ongoing cat and mouse-esque relationship pays off in the movie when he tells her at the reunion that it's been quite dull ever since she graduated 10 years ago, which is funny. And I did have some honorable mentions, which I don't think Tara is going to have picked. So I'll quickly note various principles of Sunnydale High, but especially Foxy Robin Wood, Son of Slayer, Tammy Taylor. Tara: [1:06:09] Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sarah: [1:06:12] the hapless woodman of Welcome Back Cotter, and of course my boy, Cinnamon J. Tara: [1:06:15] Mhm. Sarah: [1:06:17] And one shout out to the never seen again pre Teasley Vice Principal of the Beverly Hills Dino Two and O pilot. Tara: [1:06:23] Oh, yeah. Sarah: [1:06:24] and his weird maybe aspirational relationship with the Spanish teacher and her Walkman dance. Tara: [1:06:24] Uh-huh. Mhm. Sarah: [1:06:32] I'm not sure whatever happened to that guy, but I hope they're both very well. Tara, take us home. Tara: [1:06:35] Yeah. My I'll say my honorable mentions just to wrap them up. Principal Green, played by Oba Babatunde from Dawson's Creek. Sarah: [1:06:43] Oh yeah, oh yeah, he was good. Tara: [1:06:43] The only the the best of the principals, and that includes um Peskin, who followed him, played by Harry Shearer bizarrely. Sarah: [1:06:49] Oh, God. Tara: [1:06:51] And then a couple of Deans from The Graining Verse. Dean Peterson, played by Hankazaria, from the Homer Goes to College episode of The Simpsons. He's the one who gets run over in Homer's prank. 'Cause he's trying to relive Animal House in his one college class that he's taking. And Dean Vernon, played by David Herman from the Mars University episode of Futurama, who's always fulminating it, Robot House. I thought there was a good chance one or one of you would have taken several of those. So instead, my third official pick is Barry Dort. In Wednesday, he is played by Steve Bascemi. So, number one on the list of reasons to pick him. He's played by Steve Bascemi in a very funny, wavy wig. Sarah: [1:07:29] Uh-huh. Tara: [1:07:32] He uses his supernatural powers and his access to people who have different ones from him to raise money for Nevermore Academy. He's also In the world of the show, and I know that neither of you have watched it, kids with powers or people with powers like the Adams have are just called outcasts. It's obviously a, you know, a sort of queer Quasi-narrative about whether to assimilate with people who are different from you or form your own communities, and people have different attitudes about this. He is definitely a pro-isolationist in the outcast world. And he also has the power of pyrokinesis, meaning he can throw fireballs, including at the big bonfire to kick off the second school year that we see Wednesday there for, and another group of kids like make a big Bird out of twigs, and then he likes to get it to fly and sets it on fire. And it's very cool. So, um, Barry Dort, probably a bad guy, but time will tell in part two of season two. Dave: [1:08:33] Well, that is it for another episode of Extra, Extra Hot Grade. We stepped right up to the Hola Suite for the latest force in pool before answering your burning ask EHG questions like What show could have been a memo and what's the best piece of EHG or podcast lore? Tara Ariano got The Simpsons in the tiny needle drop canon. We followed that up with three not quite top eleven lists and wrapped it all up with a scholarly look at important T V principles. Next up is the paper Remember, I am David Teachle, and on behalf of Tar Ariano. Clip: [1:09:11] We're listening. Ah! Tara: [1:09:17] Smash away if it'll make you feel better. Dave: [1:09:19] And Sarah Debunting. Sarah: [1:09:21] Do not rush me. Dave: [1:09:23] Thanks for listening, everyone. And we'll see you next time right here on extra, extra hot grate. Clip: [1:09:40] Yeah, outta here. This is Extra Hot Great Minis, today's topic, the most electrifying quiz in sports entertainment. Oh no! Game show week mini game time continues. Today we have one from Gray. Who earns himself an extra credit? Or this game called the most electrifying quiz in sports entertainment. E I am going to read you hints in the form of specific or typical events from sports entertainment shows. Okay. Okay. Congratulations. I don't know. Two points for guessing the first hint, and one point for guessing after the second hint, if you so require it. I'm going to let you guess on each hint Okay. If you so wish. Okay. Guess all you want. Okay. We have thirty-six questions. Are we ready to play the most electrifying quiz in sports entertainment? Sure. All right. Starting again with Tara. Here we go. ABC Captain Abe Kaplan beats Robert Conrad in a race. Battle of the Network stars? DOS points. Sarah. Yep. After nine weeks of in-ring training, Maven and Nedia win. They are offered a contract with the Federation by Vix Vince McMahon. Oh, what was the name of this show? Heather worked on it. Yeah, I remember. Oh, ah. Tough enough? Nice. One point. All right. We're trip. Ashley eliminates Mike in a sudden death hole. In a what? Sudden death hole. Like H-O-L-E. I don't even know what that means. Would you like the second half? I would indeed. In the final nine holes of match play, Tommy defeats Ashley 2, 3, and 2. Okay, is was there a celebrity golfing or something? I don't know. The show big break, and it was a golfing show. Oh, you said it pretty pretty hard. For Tara. Yes. Ben Affleck successfully bluffs Don Cheadle. Celebrity poker showdown? Two points. Sarah. Yep. Dave Coulier can only manage a single waltz jump. A single waltz jump. Correct. Dancing with the stars. Incorrect. Skating with celebrities. I thought you got to guess on each one. Oh yeah, I'm sorry. Alright, we'll keep that point. We'll keep a point in balance in case it comes up in the end of the game. A Dave's screw-up point is awarded to Sarah. Shrip. Dennis Rodman dominates the contestants in the rebounding event. Um. Okay, it's something basketball. I don't know. Alright, two of the contestants managed to stop Christian Okoviev short of a first down. Okay, oh. Y E. Oh. So, okay, this is that thing where amateurs are going up against the crows. It's like Joe versus or something like that. Joe versus, or something like that. Is that your final answer? Crows versus Joe. Ah, I knew I was on track. Joe's. Tara. Yes. Fisherman. Uh Nakoto Nago Nagano conquers the warped wall and the spider walk. Um oh, it's that Japanese show. That Japanese show? Would you like the second clue? No, because it's not going to help me. I don't know the title. Ninja Warrior, aka Sasuski. All right, Sarah. Sure. Horace Griffin is cut on the nose in the first round. Can you read that again, please? Yeah, Forrest Griffin is cut on the nose in the first round. Uh, okay. Can I have another clue? Not that it'll help. Griffin comes back in the third round to score a unanimous decision against Stefan American psycho Bonaire. I don't know the ultimate fighter. On Spike, I was seeing commercials for that show. All right, uh, to trip, Gary wins the longbow competition. Oh, what was the name of that archery show? Give me the second one. Holly earns a team contract with Jerry. Oh, no, that's the wrong one. Jamie and Kyle battle it out for elimination with a Gatling gun. Oh, as you do. When dies. The random weaponry show. I think this one to Holmes really likes the show. Yeah, Colby Holmes. Yeah, top shot. All right, Tara. Yep. In pass four, both riders score hits but stay on their mounts. Proceed. In past eight, James riding Superman unhorses Joe riding Jefferson to score the decisive points. Horsey! Horsey! Close! Full metal jousting! Okay. Oh, bro. Oh, jeez. Sarah. Yep. Jesse Holly's, Jesse Holly's excels on special teams. Jesse Hawley excels on special teams. Can I have the next hint, please? Hawley earns a team contract with Jerry Jones. It's a clue I mistakenly half-read. Oh, right. Specialty games. Uh uh I feel like I covered this show for us and I can't remember the name of it. Sarah needs more coffee. Fourth and long. Fourth and long. All right, that's our one-third mark. Score break, please. Sarah has. One and one Dave screw-up point written in very faintly, and I have four. All right, so going to trip. Happy to be here. Ken Boyer out slugs Harmon Kilbrew three to two. Oh, is that the home run derby? Dose points. Nice. Tara. Yeah. Legacy and Molly are eliminated when their solos come up short. M-O-L-L-E-E. Um, next, Clue. Russell and Rachel Rachel's hip-hop and Bollywood routines make them a safe make them safe for the week. So, you think you can dance? One point. Sports? Okay. Well, you know. Sports entertainment. Sure, I guess. Longboard winner Mary gets to go on the crossing. Um Surfgasm Surf Girls Dave Oh, I'm sorry. Two points. I'm just so used to people answering and be doing. All right. She's going to beat me on the screw-up points. Good. All right. Sorry. Trip. Yes. The Rumble bounced past the Diablos in the fourth quarter. Wow, I don't know what any of those words mean. Next. The mob's gunner put two on the board after his trampoline jump. Wow, I can't even begin to guess. This is one I added to the game because it's the first one. Thank you very much. I have no idea. Slam ball, the trampoline basketball game. Trampoline basketball game. Number 17. That's pretty eagle. Neither Melanie nor Danny can land a shark. Next, they switch to catching rockfish for their elimination challenge. Nope. Top hooker. Oh my god. Sarah. Nitro and lace dominate the joust. Nitro and Lace dominate on the joust. Wesley two scoops berry, in addition to having the best nickname in the universe. Sets a record time in The Eliminator. Medieval times deathmatch? American Gladiators. Silence. All right. Number nine nineteen for trip. No one can beat the big balls in round one. Why Power? Yep, two points. Tara? Yes. Otis Griffin takes on David Pargera in the final bout. Next. Oscar De La Hoya crowns Otis Griffin the winner by unanimous decision. I don't remember what the show was called. This one was called The Next Great Fighter? Close. The Next Great Champ. Oh. All right. Uh, Sarah? Uh-huh. Is this real? All right. Peter Murgatroyd tries to teach Meta World Peace the Cha-Cha. Oh. Dancing with the stars. Dos points. Trip. Yes. Sean Atkinson scores six points in one jam for the California Quakes. Uh next? The quad father Mark Diamato gets the last laugh for the New York Enforcers. Wow. Is there a roller derby show? Roller Derby USA. Roller Jam. Ah, roller jam. All right, Tara. Yep. Skanky haunts the contestants during wall bangers by the nickel next clue Food Service beats hobbyists at sinkers and floaters. No. Ew. The most extreme elimination challenge. Also, of course, game. All right. For Sarah, Stephen Baldwin, Vanilla Ice, and Johnny Fairplay report to the ranch. Oh my god, you know what? I watched this show. I'll take the next hint, even though it won't help. They try to last at least eight seconds on top a level seven. Damn it, and Jewel was on this as like the judge's girlfriend. God damn it, Celebrity Rodeo? Very close. It's Ty Murray's Celebrity Bull Riding Challenge. Yeah. Bull riding challenge. All right. That's two thirds. Two full season. God damn it. Two-thirds. Score break, please. Um Sarah has three points and two Dave points. Uh Trip has four points. I have five points. Alright, so we're moving on to trip. Stone Cold gives a stunner to Hunter. Three acceptable answers. Stone Cold gives a stunner. The contender. Art slaps a sharpshooter on Shawn Michaels. Uh wow, that was like the only boxing type show I could think of. Uh uh WWE. A little bit more than that. Oh, you would. Rawl. Rawl? WWE Raw? Yeah. Oh! One point for trip, and that's wrestling, not boxing. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah, okay. Send your letters to Dripping. Yes, exactly. Don't email us. All right. Tara. Yeah. Streets with a Z or a Z for our American friend. Sure. Goes to the blacktop battle for survival. Next, white chocolate and a sick ball handling leads his team for the win. I assume it's basketball related, but I don't know. Basketball related. Basketball related, close. Who's got game? Okay. All right, Sarah. T-Money dominates the contestants in the roller cage. T-Money dominates the contestants in the roller cage. Uh, Bad Girls Club. A contestant beats Bubba King in aerial kickboxing. The next great anime fighter Battledome. Battle Dome. Remember Battledome? No. No. No. All right. Uh yes. The big guy goes to Pittsburgh to see if he can best uh Ben Rothensberger. Rothlingsburger. Rothlingsburger in a game of friendship. Oh, I do. Um. Pros vs. Joe's too. No, the seven-footer's height is an asset when taking on Misty Mae and Carrie Walsh in beach volleyball. Is this Shaq vs? Mr. Payne, it is Wow. All right, uh The certified public assassins hit the dead man walking in the third round. Next, League Most Valuable Player Michael Costanza. Costanza. Catches an opponent's ball to win round one. Nope. Extreme dodge ball. Okay. Two words that go together. Miss Bunting? Yes. The ladies of New York Euphoria and Los Angeles Temptation showdown during halftime. Cheer wars? It's full contact, but they're not fully clothed. Mud Wrestling Wars? That was the lingerie bowl. Oh, of course it was. All right, Trip. Five groups perform to Brittany's I Wanna Go. Hive groups perform to Britney's I Wanna Go. Extreme Cheerleading Challenge. Incorrect. Mixed Elements. That's a name of something. Is the worst, but the judges give them another chance to dance to Flo Rida. Have we had Soyu Think You Can Can Dance Yet? So you think you can dance. Tara. Randy Jackson presents America's best dance crew. That's way too long to remember. Alright, Tara. Yeah. The Lord, L-O-R-D, Lords of Rules and Discipline, is what that stands for. Disciplines a contestant during roller joust. Oh my god, how have I not heard of this show before? It sounds amazing. I don't know. Steel Maiden and Plague are outstanding during battle swords. Nope. Knights and warriors. Various gladiator events, huh? Sarah? The NWO Hollywood and the Wolfpack factions clash. I don't know. Goldberg puts his win streak on the line against Mike Awesome. Uh Superhero Junior WCW something, yeah, it is. Impressive. Monday Nitro. Yeah. Oh, sure. All right, trip. Yes. The southern bells are destroyed by Hollywood and Vine. It's the old story. Extreme cheerleading challenge again. Mount Fiji pins Dementia in the final event. Pins, pins. Glorious ladies of wrestling. Ding, ding, ding. Ding. Nice. All right, last question for Tara. Yep. The team of Kareem and Louie do very badly in the tandem event. Splash. Two points. All right. What's the score here? Seven for me, seven for Trip, three for Sarah, plus two day points. Okay. Alright, Sarah, we're giving you those two points. You're now at five. Here's your chance to tie the game. Tone Lowe picks off Keanu Reeves at first. Rocks versus Jocks. Pardon me? Rocks versus jocks. Close. Rock and jock, whatever. You know what? I don't care. Move on. Daryl Strawberry, legs out. End it. MTV rock and jock softball challenge. So close. All right. Trip. Yes. You can win here. Yep. All right. You can. With one or two points. Yes. Two City Slickers are eliminated in the campfire elimination. Campfire? Extreme rodeo. The contestants face off with a 1500-pound bull in the seven rings of fire. Uh something else rodeo. Uh champion rodeo. That was Cowboy U. Cowboy U. All right, tiebreaker. This is between Sarah, take a break. This is between Tara and Trip for the point. First person to show the answer wins. I'm going to slowly read both clues. Here we go. In the finale, Sergio, the Latin snake, beats Peter, the pride of Providence, on points. Sylvester Stallone awards the top pugilist $1 million. The contender. The contender! Valued guest! Valued guest! Whew, tough game. Damn. There's a whole world out there of Sports Entertainment.