Sterling K. Brown takes the lead in Paradise, and in the investigation that drives Hulu’s new paranoid thriller — and Rolling Stone‘s lead TV critic, Alan Sepinwall, is back to discuss both. Do the layered flashbacks work better for this material than for Brown’s previous Dan Fogelman project, This Is Us? Does the dumb world-building outweigh the watchable acting? After we talked about how this underground/domed world stacked up against others on TV, we went Around The Dial with Common Side Effects, Mythic Quest, and the latest documentary from the Ken Burns Industrial Complex before Alan carefully constructed a Canon pitch for a Better Call Saul episode. Jennifer Garner won, Don Lemon lost, and what hark through yonder earbud breaks but a Shakespearean Game Time. Pack a bag for Colorado and join us!

ehg 547
Published on
Jan 29, 2025 Will You Find Any Trouble In Paradise?
Rolling Stone’s chief TV critic Alan Sepinwall is back for Hulu’s dystopian thriller starring Sterling K. Brown, plus a Better Call Saul Canon pitch and more!
Episode Rundown
Announcement
Lead Topic
Around The Dial
The Canon
Winner & Loser
Game Time
Episode Notes
Episode Transcript
Episode Transcription
Clip:
[0:04] No sir, jesus christ this is like the worst first date i've ever had.
Dave:
[0:18] This is the extra hot great podcast episode 547 for the week of january 27th 2025, I am crappy cover of a crappy Phil Collins song, David T. Cole, and I'm here with funniest president, Sarah D. Bunting.
Sarah:
[0:37] The aristocrats, Al.
Dave:
[0:39] Egg White Truth or Tara Ariano.
Tara:
[0:41] Just eat air.
Dave:
[0:42] And 80s mixtape, Alan Sepinwall.
Alan:
[0:46] They built this city in a rock.
Dave:
[0:52] Hello, everybody, and welcome to Extra Hot Great Little Bit of Pod Business. before we get to it. Just a note that I have recently exited Google Workspace. So all the URLs to all the extra hot great forums that you use to send us information have changed. Canon submissions, game time submissions, as EHG, 15 seconds of fame, all that stuff. I've updated the show notes starting with last week's EEHG. So moving forward, just check the show notes. They'll all be the correct URLs. Go to the site, all the correct URLs. But if you check any legacy material, you might get 404. So be aware. When in doubt, go to extrahotgreat.com slash FAQ. It's all listed there. And communication.
Tara:
[1:34] Joining us, he is the chief TV critic for Rolling Stone and the author of several books, including the forthcoming Saul Goodman versus Jimmy McGill, The Better Call Saul, Critical Companion. It's Alan Sebenwald. Welcome back, Alan.
Sarah:
[1:47] Alan.
Alan:
[1:48] Hey, always happy to be here, guys.
Tara:
[1:50] We're thrilled to have you to talk about Paradise, in which Xavier Collins, Sterling K. Brown, is a Secret Service agent. President Cal Bradford, James Marsden, hires Collins the day after Cal's re-election to lead his detail. He's already looking ahead to retiring in his early 50s and spending the remaining five decades of his life with someone he likes that will also keep him from being assassinated. Cal also hints darkly about scary times to come for the country and possibly the world, but it's not until Collins proves his mettle that Cal and his closest advisors read him in on their very complex, very secret plans. Paradise was created by Dan Fogelman, best known for This Is Us. It sneak dropped its first episode on Hulu Sunday. The next two dropped Tuesday, with the rest dropping weekly. we got access to seven episodes but we will be careful about spoilers for anything past the first three that are out to the public let's do the chen check-in alan should our listeners watch paradise, Sarah.
Sarah:
[2:53] Yes, there's some pitfalls and we'll talk about it. But based on what I've seen. Yeah.
Tara:
[2:58] Dave.
Dave:
[2:59] This is one of those shows that is not a good show, but I'm wholeheartedly recommending you watch it because it's fun to pick apart. One last thing with a chin check in a transition before we get to Tara and the actual show. If you haven't watched it yet and you're thinking about watching it, I would say watch the first episode. Come back to our discussion. That is the way to do it.
Tara:
[3:22] I agree with Dave. This is a very dumb show and we've watched five of them. We don't always do this. I can't. I'm not necessarily saying you should watch it, but we're having a good time with how stupid it is. So let's get into the spoiler zone for real, for real, because we have to start with the twist that closes out the series premiere. A catastrophe has happened and 25,000 rich and or lucky people have been relocated to a town deep under a mountain in Colorado. And as with under the dome, most of my questions are logistical. Like every part of the mystery story, I was like, I don't care. Where is power coming from? Why did they have cars in this 25,000 person town? Why wasn't it conceived as a walkable city? Every time I saw someone in a car, I was pissed.
Alan:
[4:11] It did not occur to me, but you're right in hindsight. I think that's part of the initial fake out where they just want you to think it's like Stars Hollow and not, you know, the end of the world.
Sarah:
[4:21] When it's actually Farts Hollow and everything has to be powered by methane because it's all stuck underground.
Dave:
[4:27] It's actually no Stars Hollow.
Sarah:
[4:31] Oh, there you go.
Tara:
[4:32] So they also made sure to draft housekeepers, but their asses have to take the bus because we see a bunch of them being delivered at one point.
Dave:
[4:41] Yeah, that was my favorite part is that they've got 25,000 people in this engineered town. Yet we still got car people and bus people. Fantastic.
Tara:
[4:51] Yep. All right. Let's let's get into more of it, I guess. I might have been more dubious about the false sun, by the way, if I hadn't been to the entirely enclosed like malls in Las Vegas. because now I know you can have an artificial sky that really looks like you're outside. Okay, Alan, when it comes to shows about humans living in a deep hole and or under a curved roof, the TV viewer does have a choice. There's Under the Dome, Silo, Fallout, there's this. Which, in your opinion, has been the most effectively realized?
Alan:
[5:21] Probably Silo, which is a show I'm way behind on because I kind of like the world building and the story has not engaged me, so I'm still somewhere in season one. But I'll say this. I think I'm sort of on board with Dave in that it's a really, really stupid show, but it moves well. The stupidity is sort of endearing in its own way. And I like the actors. Sterling K. Brown is basically, you know, young Denzel is very good. Marsden's good. Julianne Nicholson. There's some good actors in here doing stuff. The show's dumb. Dan Fogelman's whole, you know, I'm going to keep giving you twist after twist after twist thing, you know, maybe it fits a little better into a political conspiracy thriller slash post-apocalyptic sci-fi show than it does into a family drama. But at the same time, like the twists have to be so much bigger here. And that's just a really hard thing to do, you know, episode after episode and maybe season after season.
Tara:
[6:15] Sarah, you've at least sampled all of these for our various media enterprises. What are your thoughts?
Sarah:
[6:22] I think Alan's right that like I was more impressed with the world building of Silo. Like I know we made fun of it for like, why is everything brown? Well, I mean, yeah, OK, like that makes a sort of sense. But like the fact that they were sort of like cannibalizing old media and old tech and stuff like that and stuff looked like it had physically been underground, not getting any vitamin D for a long time. The story there, I thought, was not enough for me to keep going with it past what we had to watch for this. This is like there's a whole bunch of holes in the dome of the Truman show dystopia that is happening with this. But I mean, there's also some Sterling K. Brown naked bum in an episode that has dropped and that he dropped Trow. I appreciate as a viewer. I agree with Alan that this kind of Fogelman branded layered flashback idea works way better for something like this than it did with This Is Us, which I eventually quit on. So I was like, oh, my God, like, I can't just be sitting through 20 episodes waiting for you to tell me anything about how this person died that we know is dead.
Sarah:
[7:35] And they're cutting it more aggressively, like it's being done more watchably. And by actors who are able to you take them seriously, because they're taking the script seriously. But then once you turn off an episode, you're like, that actually wasn't that good. just like nicholson and brown made me believe it because they're really good, so it's like that that you're like i like these actors and i trust them to tell me this story that actually is kind of on that like building the road while they're driving on it not thought through totally but i don't mind because of the performances but the world building is like it's making me a little impatient but in that way that will make me keep watching it so well done i guess this.
Dave:
[8:23] Show is just the right mix of it is a good technical production and they have some good actors in it but the premise is so silly and the world building is so first thought no second thought.
Sarah:
[8:38] That i'm having a.
Dave:
[8:40] Lot of fun imagining the amount of thought that went into making particular parts of the show never mind just like the whole premise of basically we built the Truman Show inside of a mountain to outlive some mega catastrophe, but also stuff like, well, there's a Whole Foods kind of grocery store in there. Why are there like cans on the shelf? You know, why isn't everything like in reusable containers and stuff like just these sort of things where you're like, you're going to be living in a hole for a few generations at least, you know, because they make a big deal out of all the thought we put into this And all the geniuses we've had from, you know, discipline A, B and C to make it all gel together. And you see some of them, but it's all sort of very silly. And then tack on top of that is there's a presidential murder mystery.
Tara:
[9:29] Yeah.
Dave:
[9:29] And it's just like this silly, fun to me mix of things that I don't necessarily think was the complete intent of the creators. I think the creators think this is a better idea than it is. And it is a more serious idea than it is. And it's not. And that's what I like about it.
Tara:
[9:49] Yeah. I mean, the whole mystery part of it, and I believe there was a story in December about like why every TV show has to be about a murder now because like Netflix has done their research and figured out that's the only thing that makes people want to like hook into your show. and we're seeing it everywhere. I mean, since White Lotus and before that, obviously, like that's, it's been an issue. But like, yeah, that's the dumbest part to me. I don't, I don't care about one person dying in this place where like when you say something like there's two football fields worth of alcohol in like a storage area somewhere. I want to see those bottles, motherfucker. Like when they put on a carnival, where was all this stuff? Like, where are you keeping it when it's not up? I have so many questions about it anyway.
Dave:
[10:37] I think there's a series of smaller holes and smaller mountains where they keep all this stuff in storage.
Tara:
[10:42] Maybe.
Sarah:
[10:43] Well, I would also rather see like, you know, once the autopsy is completed and they're like, well, we're a little out of practice because this is Mayberry. And it's like, well, people still die. What physically happens to the remains at that time? Like you're already underground. How much further underground do you go? oh, is this a Hunter S. Thompson situation where you're like shot out of a pneumatic tube to the surface? Like I'm interested in that. But instead we're way back on like Julianne Nicholson's character's like faux Rissa Meyer backstory, which like she meets her husband in a bar having just sold her company at some valuation that is going to make her a multi-billionaire. But then in subsequent also flashbacks, they're still like doing their own grocery shopping like what or like that they still live in just like a normal house i'm like look i you know i remember the marissa meyer era that's not how this looks.
Alan:
[11:47] I just want to ask a question which is they keep over and over reminding us that julian nicholson's character is nicknamed sinatra because she always wears hats can you You name like one scene in this show in which she is wearing a hat.
Tara:
[12:02] I thought that's what she said. There is one scene where she has a hat on at the carnival, but I thought it was that Cal's dad said it's because she's like the leader of the Brat Pack. And when she said it's because of the hats, it was a joke.
Alan:
[12:15] Ah, okay. Then I'll allow it. It's just weird. Okay.
Tara:
[12:19] Alan, you watch so many more of these than we do. What are your feelings about there being a murder mystery at the center of this extremely outlandish premise?
Alan:
[12:28] The murder mystery would be the least interesting part of it, except that James Marsden has a brooding teenage son who is basically like, remember Chalamet in Homeland Season 2?
Tara:
[12:40] Yep.
Sarah:
[12:41] That's basically it.
Alan:
[12:41] Like he gets involved with Sterling K. Brown's daughter and, you know, no good can come from that. By the way, by the way, I'm not sure if you guys paid attention to the cast list. Sterling K. Brown's son.
Sarah:
[12:53] I'm so glad you brought this up.
Alan:
[12:55] Percy Daggs IV.
Tara:
[12:58] Hey, I didn't see that.
Sarah:
[13:00] Oh, Walls Fidel Jr. Good for him. Yeah.
Alan:
[13:04] Yeah, but also we are so fucking old if Percy Daggs IV is in a TV show.
Sarah:
[13:09] Oh my God. No kidding. Cute as a button, though, just like his dad.
Alan:
[13:13] Okay, but back to your question, Tara. The murder mystery is not interesting. And once you sort of add post-apocalypse to it, that sort of takes precedence over everything else. And there's a later episode with, without going into too much, it's largely a flashback to the day the world ended. That one is, I think, easily the most interesting episode of the show because it's like, all right, we're just leaning into the premise here as opposed to trying to retrofit all these other ideas into it.
Tara:
[13:39] Mm-hmm.
Alan:
[13:39] I don't know. It's a lot of ideas. I wasn't necessarily bored for most of it, except the stuff with the teenagers, but it's a silly show that has good momentum and good actors, but you don't really want to question anything or it all falls apart in a minute.
Dave:
[13:53] Or you want to question everything and it does fall apart and that's why you watch it. There's a fundamental difference between our viewing habits.
Sarah:
[14:02] Well, this is my next question or perhaps the last question, which is like we're seeing a return to like here's a premiere of a couple three episodes and then we're gonna drop them weekly i'm not against this in theory except like we already had cable and broadcast tv and why be a streamer if you're gonna do this but this show in particular i feel like they should have just dropped the whole rack yeah and let people talk about it does anyone else agree because i feel like this particular stupidity does not benefit from giving people six days and 23 hours to think about shade in between. Am I wrong?
Alan:
[14:40] I think it's kind of because Fogelman obviously really liked Lost and borrows a whole lot of inspiration or just steals ideas from Lost. This idea of like, we're going to tease things out and we're going to do crazy cliffhangers and therefore we want people to go nuts on Reddit or whatever, analyzing and speculating for a week. I guess that's why they would want to do it.
Dave:
[15:02] I would agree.
Tara:
[15:02] I'm sure that's why they're doing it. But to me, this is like... this is classic Netflix shovelware. It's just like, let's get on with it. There's no reason to let every episode breathe. Like, it's not that good, and no one's going to care about this, especially dropping so close to severance, which is exactly what you're talking about. Like, I don't know if people who are, like, at that level of the TV... discusserati. We're going to be able to split their focus between those two shows. Okay, we also have to, before we move on, talk about the episode-ending emo covers, because I know this was already a joke with Grey's Anatomy doing this back in the day, and possibly now I don't still watch it. The sad covers of Another Day in Paradise, I Think We're Alone Now, Every Rose Has a Thorn, and Eye of the Tiger were enough. But when we got to the sad emo We Built the City cover, It's like, you, how do you get the balls to do that with this show?
Sarah:
[16:02] The singer is like almost audibly about to laugh the whole time. It's so, it's so good.
Alan:
[16:09] But they did build the city.
Tara:
[16:11] I know.
Dave:
[16:12] No denying that, Tara.
Tara:
[16:13] I know, I know.
Dave:
[16:14] That one's got you there.
Tara:
[16:15] Okay, final question. We've talked about which of these shows is the best realized. Of the living under a dome or in the ground, which of these towns would you most want to live in under the dome silo fallout not quite a town but you know what i mean or this one paradise alan i.
Alan:
[16:34] Mean i guess paradise because it seems the most like the world in which we live and yeah i would just hang out at the library all day.
Sarah:
[16:41] Sarah yeah it's down to paradise and fallout i would say because silo everything's brown Under the dome, everyone's annoying and too stupid to live, dome or no.
Tara:
[16:53] Yeah.
Sarah:
[16:54] One of these towns has the possibility of seeing Sterling K. Brown's Dupa. It's not Fallout. So, paradise it is! Get the car!
Dave:
[17:04] Yeah, it's got to be paradise because you have the most, you know, comfortable amenities there. So, I mean, just for comfort's sake, it's got to be paradise.
Tara:
[17:12] Yeah, same here. And as far as I can tell, no one's making new TVs. So, in the paradise world, I might finally catch up. And that would be nice.
Dave:
[17:18] Plus, Paradise is the only place that has a keeping up with a Kardashian's book in the library.
Tara:
[17:23] That's true.
Dave:
[17:26] One last thought, though.
Tara:
[17:28] What you just said.
Alan:
[17:29] Is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response.
Dave:
[17:42] Be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber.
Alan:
[17:49] I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul I miss that bit.
Dave:
[18:00] It's time to go around the dial talking about things we've been watching on TV recently. Tara Ariano, you're up first.
Tara:
[18:06] I watched the first four episodes of Common Side Effects. And ever since Silicon Valley ended, Mike Judge has been very prolific in animation. He's brought back Beavis and Butthead as a series. He's been an executive producer on Praise PD, which we talked about when it premiered in 2023. In the Know on Peacock and Exploding Kittens on Netflix. These have ranged from bad, in the know, already canceled, to fine, exploding kittens. So when I saw his name attached to Common Side Effects on Adult Swim, I wasn't that excited, but it's good. It's the best of all of them, actually. Judge and Greg Daniels, who worked with him on King of the Hill, are executive producers, but the show was co-created by Joe Bennett of Scavenger's Reign, The Max Show, and Steve Healy, a writer on shows like Veep, but best known to me as Jerram from 30 Rock. That's not that much cheese. Thank you. The show's about Marshall, who is voiced by another comedy writer. His name is Dave King. He discovers a mushroom called the Blue Angel, previously only rumored but real. It can heal all kinds of illnesses up to and including death. It means that figures from the government, health insurance companies, and big pharmaceuticals are colluding to prevent Marshall from going public with his discovery and destabilizing the world economy and various other structures of social control that benefit from people being trafficked. sick and scared. While he is hiding from commandos and whatnot, Marshall happens to connect with his old high school friend Francis, voiced by Emily Pendergrass, just after she has watched him get thrown out of a rudical pharmaceutical shareholders meeting.
Tara:
[19:33] She lies about working there and he confides in her about the mushroom. Emily needs this job for her student loan payments and to pay for the care of her mother who has dementia, so she has an interest in keeping tabs on Marshall while he is on the run. Her terrible boss Rick is voiced by Mike Judge in a in true piece of shit mode like if the manager at tchotchkes kept like failing upwards to become the ceo of a pharmaceutical company he's constantly complaining to francis about money absolutely oblivious that she is broke for real and has actual problems so the animation of every natural element the people not so much is so beautiful it made me want to watch scavengers rain something that would have never been on my radar before marshall has a pet tortoise named mr socrates I would die for this turtle for real tortoise but also this is about the corruption of the government and for-profit health care and obviously that's my shit Ben Feldman's also in it he has a voice as uh I won't say who the character is because it's kind of a reveal but anyway it premieres on Adult Swim Sunday night it will be on max after that Dave also watched it Dave what are your thoughts I.
Dave:
[20:34] Was saying while we were watching it this feels like it may have started life as a pitch for an actual tv show and it ended up in animation I don't know if that's true or not but it feels to me like one of the shows that could have existed and thrived in that first generation what can we do that's sort of like breaking bad but it's not breaking bad that we had you know like the ozark sort of.
Tara:
[20:55] Stuff but.
Dave:
[20:56] It's really good it's quite compelling and they do take advantage of the fact that it is animated but the characters are well fleshed out like the fbi agent who's just really into whatever music's playing in the car is fun.
Tara:
[21:08] But he's got more.
Dave:
[21:09] To him than just being that.
Tara:
[21:11] And grooving.
Dave:
[21:12] In his car doing a stakeout.
Tara:
[21:14] Yeah.
Dave:
[21:14] I was actually very surprised. You watched it to review it and you said, well, you should watch this and catch up because I think you'll like it. And I was like totally in the bag for this. I was very surprised and it's quite compelling.
Tara:
[21:25] Yeah, excellent. So you can read my review. We'll link it in the show notes. Common Side Effects, Sunday nights on Adult Swim.
Dave:
[21:33] All right, Alan, have you been watching any TV recently?
Alan:
[21:37] TV? It's time for that.
Sarah:
[21:39] What is it that you've been watching?
Alan:
[21:40] I'm busy writing books. No, there's a lot of stuff coming out this week, but I wanted to talk about this fourth season of Mythic Quest, which will be on Apple TV later this week. This is a show I've always enjoyed, created by Rob McElhenney, Charlie Day, and Megan Gans. So there's a lot of Always Sunny in Philadelphia DNA in there, but also some Silicon Valley and everything else, If you've never seen it before, Rob plays the extremely wealthy, extremely narcissistic head of a video game company that's been around a long time, like a multi role player game. And Charlotte McDow, who is super funny, is like the woman, his partner and the woman who actually makes all the code work and is just a complete disaster of a human being. And they hate each other, but they also can't kind of live without each other. The new season, I think, is very good. I mean, there's a degree to which you're sort of wondering why all of these people are still on the show. And the answer is just because they're very likable and they work for the most part in really good combinations. And the season has a lot of fun with the specific dynamics between Ian and Poppy, the two main characters. I mean, there's some subplots I don't love quite as much.
Alan:
[22:51] But yeah, I think Tara knows the exact ones I'm talking about. But it's just, I blitzed. I wasn't even going to write about it for Rolling Stone, but I blitzed through the screeners anyway, very happily. I mean, the only disappointing thing I would say is one of the highlights every year of the show is they will do an off-format episode about either a minor character on the show or someone almost entirely unrelated to the show. And those are usually really awesome. This year, it's one about Ian's teenage son, Pudishu, who's appeared in the past. and this one's pretty good but it's just not at the level of some of the other ones so I guess that's disappointing but on the whole like this just made me really happy to have it back.
Tara:
[23:32] Yeah, it took me until I was done to realize, oh, that was the off-model episode. It's very subtle that it takes place in the present day.
Dave:
[23:40] But also watching it after having watched the whole series players was like, I feel like I've seen all that.
Tara:
[23:45] Done better.
Dave:
[23:46] Yeah, done better.
Alan:
[23:48] And for my plug, we're recording this on Tuesday the 28th. A week from today on February 4th will be the release of my next book, Saul Goodman v. Jimmy McGill, the complete critical companion to better call Saul, which is a show we may be talking about again later in this episode, but it's got essays on every single episode of the show. It's got all of my archival interviews with Vince Gilligan, Ray Sehorne, Bob Odenkirk, Michael McKean, a lot of other people who worked on better call Saul over the years. And it has a brand new, very long, very in-depth interview with the show's co-creator, Peter Gould, everything from soup to nuts on Rolling Stone today is sort of a plug within the plug. We published an excerpt from that where Peter talked about the day that Bob had his heart attack and just sort of what that was like and what discussions they allowed themselves to have about what they would do if Bob, thankfully, did make it. But if he didn't make it, what they were going to do, or even if he just didn't recover fully. And so there's just a lot of great detail in there about one of the all time great shows. And I hope you guys like it.
Dave:
[24:53] And you can preorder it already. Yes.
Alan:
[24:55] Yes. It was available anywhere books are sold. you know, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Bookshop, wherever you want to buy.
Dave:
[25:01] Great. Sarah D. Bunting, what have you been watching on TV recently?
Sarah:
[25:07] Well, it's the return of Grandpa Buncey's public television hour. It's not that there is nothing to like or to learn in PBS's two-part four-hour documentary on Leonardo da Vinci. It dropped late last year, I think November.
Sarah:
[25:23] Comes to us from David McBann and Ken and Sarah Burns. I did learn some things. I really like Keith David's narration. I like the inclusion of surprising talking head interviewees like Guillermo del Toro. And it's not that the filmmakers didn't try to go a bit of a different way visually. I did not care for the many split screens and found them a little student filmy and hectic, but it beats the old Burns pan and scan at least better. the thing is, they also are still doing that. And overall.
Sarah:
[25:54] Leonardo da Vinci feels a little intimidated by its subject and unsure of which angle to take, whether it should try to embrace his entire life or try to find a common thread among major works or what it should do. And after the 15th time you've seen that sketchbook close-up of the muscles of the eye, it's like, maybe just interview one kind of person about one thing you think is most interesting here and don't try to reinvent the vitruvian wheel like get every possible kind of visual artist every possible draftsperson cartoonists whatever show them the sketchbooks and let them talk about his influence on them i honestly would rather have watched four hours of like outtakes of del toro who like i.
Sarah:
[26:40] Don't revere him as a filmmaker or anything but i would be much more interested just to hear him talking about the polymath aspects of da Vinci's career than this much more sort of bog-standard PBS documentary take, which I guess is unfair because it, you know, is a PBS documentary. And I didn't not want that. This just could have been more and wasn't.
Dave:
[27:05] How many hours did they dedicate to the motion picture Hudson Hawk?
Sarah:
[27:13] Not enough.
Dave:
[27:14] Not enough, because Da Vinci's all over that shit.
Sarah:
[27:16] Yeah. Of course.
Dave:
[27:20] And to plug?
Sarah:
[27:22] If you would rather read a book, then watch that. And you finish Alan's book and Alan's other books. And our book about 90210, which is also from Abrams. Hey, there is a hot off the press sale at my bookshop, Exhibit B Books, right now. My shop is all true crime, but there are a lot of titles that you have seen adapted for or near TV, and occasionally won by a TV star like Mike the Situation Sorrentino's Crime War from last year. Whatever the case, if it's new from the warehouse, it's 20% off right now, and as David T. Cole will happily tell you, the cart does the math.
Dave:
[28:00] Sure does.
Dave:
[28:03] all right coming up on this friday's extra extra hot great it is episode 338 lifetimes oj simpson story 30 years ago it was out we're going to talk about it because it's the 30th anniversary of said lifetime dream and lifetime of the oj simpson story so you know it's going to be good that is available to club members go to extrahotgreat.com slash club for more info and you can sign up there and listen to that and the many, many, many other episodes in the back catalog. And then come back here next week, ESG Prime 548. You're cordially invited is what we're covering with new guest, Mr. Charles Starr.
Dave:
[28:48] It is time for the extra hot great canon. Alan Sepawol is presenting. I can guess what the show is. Give us the deets, Alan.
Alan:
[28:57] You will be shocked to learn that I'm going to be presenting an episode of Better Call Saul. What with me having written an entire book about it that's coming out in a few days and which you can preorder right now and the links in the show notes. The challenge really was figuring out which episode I was going to do because there are so many different kinds of Saul episodes. Some are largely about the cartel stuff with Mike and Gus. Some are set primarily in the legal world with Jimmy and Kim. Some are heavy, some are light. Some are showcases for the greatest character in the history of filmed or printed fiction, Kim Wexler, and others have her a little more to the side. Ultimately, I chose the final season's seventh episode, Plan and Execution, which offers a little bit of everything great about Saul, but especially how wonderful it is to watch Jimmy and Kim running a con together. And in the process, the episode runs something of a con on its own audience. If you haven't watched the show in a while, and friend, if that's the case, have I got a book for you! It's the climax of the first half of season six, and of a storyline where Kim has been plotting to destroy Howard Hamlin's reputation.
Alan:
[29:58] Allegedly, the scam will force HHM to settle the Sandpiper class action suit early, so Kim and Jimmy can use his cut of the settlement to set up a high-powered criminal defense firm for indigent clients. But really, it's because she's fallen in love with the high of the hustle, and because Howard seems like an easy, smug mark. The episode opens with Lalo hiding in the Albuquerque sewers and conducting surveillance on the laundromat where Gus wants to build his underground super lab. But for a very long time, the cartel plot disappears from view and from memory, and we're just watching Kim and Jimmy scrambling to deal with a last-second change in their plan. They have to run around town filming new fake surveillance photos and getting them into Howard's hands, and between the pacing and the score, it's Better Call Saul and it's most gleefully caperish. A Confidence Scheme story is only as much fun as the payoff, though. Fortunately, this is a spectacular one, and a great showcase for one of the series' unsung actors in Patrick Fabian. This is as much a Howard episode as it is a Jimmy and Kim one, and Howard's meltdown at thinking he has outwitted his nemeses, when in fact they have made him look like a coke-addled lunatic, is pure grifter joy as we hear a bit in our first clip.
Alan:
[31:08] This is not... Julie, you got the wrong envelope. That was the only one on your desk.
Alan:
[31:49] Is this how these usually go? That bit is so much fun that the episode makes it easy to forget a few things. The first is that the sins that inspired Kim to punish Howard like this were Howard offering Jimmy a job and Howard expressing concern for Kim. The second is that Kim is so caught up in this scheme that she doesn't even seem to care anymore about another, much less sketchy opportunity to get the money to launch the defense firm that she claims to want so badly. She is breaking bad, just in a very different way from her husband's future client. And the third is, well, before we get there, we get Howard arriving at Kim's condo to give his former employees a piece of his mind, dissecting them verbally in the most succinct and accurate closing argument of his life. It is also, unfortunately, the last argument of his life because it's at that moment we are reminded that this is not just a show about lawyers and con men, but one with drug kingpins and assassins and let's just hear our second clip, which takes us from the tail end of Howard's speech to the end of the episode. You're perfect for each other.
Alan:
[32:56] You have a piece missing.
Sarah:
[34:32] God! Oh my god! No, no! Shh, shh, shh, shh. Okay. It's Doug.
Alan:
[34:47] It is a masterful, brutal piece of misdirection by the show, and an incredible piece of acting from all four of Fabian, Bob Odenkirk, Ray Seahorn, and Tony Dalton. There were times throughout the series where the legal and cartel halves seemed mismatched, and there are definitely stretches where my investment in the law stuff vastly outweighed my feelings for more Breaking Bad backstory. But this short, lethal encounter between Lalo and Howard beautifully devastatingly captures why the combination of the two worlds under one title could be so potent and why Better Call Saul's best moments were equal to, and at times better than, their Breaking Bad equivalents. I hope the three of you will put plan and execution into the canon. And even if you don't, I hope that the EHG audience will consider picking up a copy of Saul Goodman v. Jimmy McGill, the complete critical companion to Better Call Saul, buy my book, buy my book.
Tara:
[35:40] ABC.
Dave:
[35:40] There is a professional doing a canon presentation. Can I go first? Because I just have one observation that I usually go last with the one thing nobody else has said. But let me just go first because I almost called you Nolten for some reason. I almost called you my dog. Because Alan...
Tara:
[35:57] Because we love him.
Dave:
[35:58] Sort of glossed over it to get to the meat of the episode. But I haven't watched Better Call Saul in a hot minute, but I forgot how satisfying the show can be with so little plot development. The whole cold open basically is Lalo surveys Fring's business. That's it. And it goes for like five minutes. And it's so full of character and atmosphere and like barely, if any, dialogue. It opens. He is coming out of a sewer. He puts the manhole back. He goes to his car. He's taken off his jumpsuit. He goes to a truck stop where he's going through the store and he takes a shower and he goes back to the sewer, goes down. Here's a man that is a killer but wants to be clean for the 45 minutes in between sewer trips.
Dave:
[36:50] And he has this moment where he sets a kitchen manual, you know, buzzer timer for an hour. He naturally wakes up seconds before the timer was actually going to go off, which I thought was a fantastic little character note there.
Dave:
[37:06] And there he sets up his little home away from home observation deck to watch the laundry.
Dave:
[37:15] To figure out exactly how they're working this underground meth business, which he's figured out is probably the case.
Dave:
[37:22] And all that is like five minutes and it's like beautifully shot. And it's just like one of those sort of, it's almost like a silent film in ways. and I just absolutely loved it. And I kind of forgot how satisfying it is to watch because no other show does it like that in Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul where they just take an idea, which is we have to show the intent and the character of this guy and we're not going to do it through clunky exposition dialogue. How does that work? And this is how it works. And there's never been possible. anything quite like it since. And it just really hooked into my brain. And I absolutely love it. And there's like tons of other things like that, like the scramble to get the reshoot team together again, the, you know, the terrible adventures assemble where they get the guy in the parking lot, the actor to come back, where they get the director who's teaching some terrible film class at community college to come back, the dark crystal cosplay player to come back to do the makeup, stuff all this sort of stuff and that is all to get a new set of photos and again that's like a five ten minute sequence but it's not too long it's like feels perfect and it builds up these characters and it is something about Better Call Saul that I absolutely love and I was just reminded by this episode and that is not even like the thing everybody remembers about this episode but it was like my favorite part of it this time around watching it so one of those shows that You always can get something new every time you revisit.
Tara:
[38:51] Yeah. The two unlikely things he does in that cold open are drive a Subaru out back and wear flip-flops. I mean, we'll find out why he's wearing flip-flops. Both of those is like, not my Lalo, but then, you know. Also, truck stop shower, much nicer than I would have guessed. It looks like a hotel or a motel. Like, it looks perfectly fine and not gross. Anyway, Sarah, why don't you go next? We'll do an Austin sandwich.
Sarah:
[39:18] Technically.
Dave:
[39:18] We're doing a new york sandwich because we name it.
Sarah:
[39:21] After the.
Dave:
[39:21] Middle you're right.
Sarah:
[39:22] Yeah bay ridge on austin got it i also loved that cold open because i think that this cold open sort of epitomizes what i remember from recapping better call saw which i think we had done a couple of seasons prior which is that You can watch it sort of just pleasurably and enjoy the careful construction and trust in the careful construction and that you're being shown everything for a reason. But even if you're going a couple of layers deeper and having to analyze it in a recap, then you're being shown everything for a reason and you're being shown everything in the way that you're being shown it for a reason. And here I was impressed, especially like there are these sort of long sequences where you're like, why are we spending this much time on Howard being condescending to the representative of the class action?
Sarah:
[40:19] Why are we spending this much time on Lalo, like having a Subaru, like that detail is wonderful. But then when you get to the end, and as we just heard in the second clip, like I was at the time and remain impressed at how verite and organic these reactions are in everything from the way Howard hits the floor to Seahorn and Odenkirk just like shrieking in horror. Like, this is how this would actually go down. But also Lalo, who like, you know, we all love Lalo, extremely charismatic, wonderful performance, absolutely lethal human being not to be fucked with. And this is the consequence of underestimating him. And I'm always sort of impressed by the show's ability to sort of bring you back to the idea that all these characters can contain multitudes. Like Howard is being a smug prick like he always is. In this episode, he's being condescending like he always is. You want his comeuppance like you always do. And then once you realize, oh, it's this scene and they look down at the candle and it's wavering in the wind and you're like, oh, right.
Sarah:
[41:36] And it's like, well, OK, nobody wanted him to go out like that. Just wanted to fuck off. And the show's ability to construct an episode that brings you from these con storylines are fun. This comeuppance is deserved.
Sarah:
[41:51] You know, Lalo, what a, you know, what a fun character. And then at the end, it's like, well, shit.
Sarah:
[41:58] And they they do that so elegantly every time, I would say. So I thought that this presentation was equally good and focused in that regard by Alan's book. And I did want to keep watching to the end because I haven't revisited it in a while either. That tends to be the way with extremely good shows that I had to recap that I'm like, I don't need to watch that again because I could give you like a card for card shot list. to some of these episodes and I just don't need to do it again. But I think I might do a rewatch of this one. And yeah, excellent presentation of an excellent episode. And the show is great. Buy Alan's book.
Dave:
[42:40] Can I just interrupt for one thing I forgot to say, which is the one little detail I really enjoyed that was mentioned in this episode is Camera Guy. I don't know if he has an actual character name.
Tara:
[42:50] None of them ever get names, which I love.
Dave:
[42:52] Camera Guy, the guy teaching cinematography at the community college, mentions the camera term Circles of Confusion. I just want to give a shout out to Circles of Confusion, my absolute favorite camera glossary term. And I'm glad that it might have made some people go to Wikipedia to figure out what it is. But Circles of Confusion, probably the best named photo glossary term out there. OK, sorry.
Tara:
[43:16] Yeah, I think he's not a teacher. He's just been brought in to give them a grounding in the equipment department.
Sarah:
[43:22] And then not let them use any of it, which is like that is some people's personality.
Tara:
[43:27] Yep they're.
Alan:
[43:30] His toys they're not anyone else.
Tara:
[43:32] Of course yeah he's very like snl it guy move that's his energy for sure and you know coming last there's very little left to say this is a wonderful episode when i looked it up to make sure i got everybody's names right for my notes it is rated 9.9 out of 10 by users of imdb so they're not right about a lot but they were right about this one for sure yeah alan makes such a great point about how the episode tricks you in its structure into forgetting like the you know the psychopath at the end of this book as it were who's who's going to show up and even then the few shots where you see him and i won't be all like you know lalo i could change him although i have said that in the past but there's a shot of him at one point when he's still in the sewer where it's like almost all dark and all you can see of his face basically is like you know his nose and mouth and then like just the glitter of whatever is reflecting his eyes and just it's so chilling big episode for eyes between that and howard's uh gigantic pupils after he's been dosed from the photo print also i i loved the con story too the the links back to.
Tara:
[44:35] Better Call or to Breaking Bad were always sort of less interesting to me than that part of the story. And I realized, you know, as far as this episode is concerned, I am part of the problem. But the way the way it's built and I mean, Sarah's right that you do see so much of Howard doing his like, you know, his routine with Irene from the class representative where he's just being kind of a dick. And like at the end, you know, you know, from the reference, I think they established it that Howard's father, I mean, we already know if we've been watching it, but if you'd never seen an episode before this, that his father founded this firm.
Tara:
[45:10] So even when all this is happening to him, you sort of have in the back of your mind, like, even if this ends Howard's career, and it probably will, like, he'll be fine. He has family money. Like, this is all nothing to someone like him. but yeah you didn't want him to go out like that like the juxtaposition of like where that scene starts and where it ends is so much what this show did well like it just can turn a mood on a dime and the funny stuff is so funny and the chilling stuff is so so terrifying this episode truly has it all i will say watching this the same week as paradise and looking at the laundromat i did think Sad for Werner Ziegler that he didn't book that building the city of Carnival job, because that's, you know.
Sarah:
[45:56] His area.
Tara:
[45:58] But yeah, I never thought I would love again after Gus Fring, Lalo, was a revelation to me. And this show is the best. And buy Alan's book, where he elucidates all of this much better than I just did.
Dave:
[46:10] All right, let's make this official and put it to the vote. I will go first because I went first. I'm going to say yes to this one for sure. Sarah D. Bunting.
Sarah:
[46:19] Yes to this and to Alan's book.
Dave:
[46:21] And Tara.
Tara:
[46:22] Yes.
Dave:
[46:23] All right, so. Better Call Saul, Season 6, Episode 7, Plan and Execution. You are hereby inducted into the Extra Hockray Cannon.
Alan:
[46:43] Americans love a winner.
Dave:
[46:45] Yep. And will not tolerate a loser. Nope. It is time to discover the winner and a loser of the week. Tara has this week's winner.
Tara:
[46:54] Lately, she's just been a supporting player in the drama of Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck's divorce. But Jennifer Garner is going to be starring in an actual project. This one is the Peacock series adaptation of Ellen Hildebrand's novel, The Five Star Weekend. And this is the same author who wrote the book that the Netflix show The Perfect Couple was based on that we talked about last fall. I didn't realize how much I missed her until I saw this news. And then I was like, oh, yeah, she's actually a really good actor and a very likable screen presence. So whether she's playing the sweetie at the heart of this or a huge bitch like Nicole Kidman did in The Perfect Couple, I'm here for it either way. I recently rewatched an episode from season three of Party Down and was reminded again how good she is. So good for her and good for all of us.
Dave:
[47:40] And Sarah, who is our loser of the week?
Sarah:
[47:43] I will quickly add before I share the loser that, yeah, Jennifer Garner, if you watch live sports, you still see her in Capital One ads quite a bit. But she's still delightful. Like, I would still like to see her in an actual something versus a what's in your wallet. Anyway, back to the loser. and that is Don Levin, who apparently believes that it is time for Matt Lauer's comeback or decancellation or whatever. Look, Don, all of my complaining in documentary reviews about how producers don't actually have to use contemporary news footage containing Matt Lauer, like there's a gazillion other anchors and hosts that you can choose from, especially in documentaries about sexual assault. Do not use footage of him. I feel like that finally got through to everybody, and now Don Lemon's like, well, let's welcome him back in. No, let's not. He's a monster.
Dave:
[48:44] Oh, we're ending there. Well... Speaking...
Sarah:
[48:49] Plenty of segue material. Come on. Don't let me down.
Dave:
[48:52] What is the good segue here, sir?
Sarah:
[48:57] Speaking of not letting it back Like, I don't know.
Tara:
[48:59] Speaking of unlikely comebacks.
Sarah:
[49:01] Speaking of monsters.
Dave:
[49:02] Okay, do you know what time it is?
Sarah:
[49:03] It's game time.
Alan:
[49:05] Time?
Dave:
[49:32] This is the fourth game time of the season. The season scores are Tara with zero, Sarah with two, value guests with one. Today we are playing Shakespeare TV Dinner Theater. It comes from Mr. Dan Casino, who earns himself an extra credit. Topic of his choosing, plus a free shirt from the EHG store at throughmethods.com. Dan writes, TV royalties not being what they were, the stars of some of your favorite shows are now doing dinner theater. It's classy dinner theater, all Shakespeare, and the producers have made sure to remind the audience where the actors are from by having them say the name of a show they starred in during their Shakespeare performance. In this game, you'll get a quote from Shakespeare that contains the name of a popular TV show, but I've replaced the name of that show with the bard's favorite thing, the sound of an old jalopy's horn. Name the show from just the snippet and you get three points. If you don't know it, you can get the year and the network of the show's premiere, after which the correct answer is two points. If you still don't know it after that, I'll let you know which actor is performing in both this classy dinner theater and the show in question. The answer here is worth only a point. But Sarah D. Bunting, you only get one crack at the answer.
Sarah:
[50:56] Oh, okay.
Dave:
[50:58] Note, the names of shows can be more than one word, and we are not dropping articles. So if that show starts with the, it will be in the Shakespeare snippet.
Tara:
[51:07] Okay.
Dave:
[51:07] Let's throw it to Peggy to see our order today. We will start with Sarah. All right. We're going to go Sarah, Alan, Tara. We've got 27 questions. No steel meals today because of the nature of the game. We're not going to do any challenge zones today, so don't worry about that. Are we ready to play Shakespeare TV dinner theater?
Tara:
[51:29] Yes.
Sarah:
[51:29] Yes.
Dave:
[51:30] All right. Here we go. And I will say, I do believe that this was Dan Casino's attempt to make me read Shakespeare, which we all know would be a complete disaster. So, ha ha, Dan, I spent about four hours yesterday coming up with actual clips of Shakespeare performances that were the text of the questions he used. So I'm playing you audio clips with the awoogas in them. Here we go.
Sarah:
[51:53] Wow.
Dave:
[51:54] We're going to start you off with some slowballs. This one is for Sarah. And Crispin, Crispin shall ne'er go by from this, we happy few, we... All right, fill in the ooga there. If you know the name of the show from that Shakespeare snippet, you're going to get three points. If you don't know it, you can ask for a clue. I'm going to give you the year and the network of its premiere.
Sarah:
[52:33] Um, I was distracted by the awoo-ga, so I would like a hint, please.
Dave:
[52:38] This show debuted in 2001 on HBO.
Sarah:
[52:44] 2001 on HBO. I need the next hint, please.
Dave:
[52:50] All right. Your starring character, who's also here in the dinner theater with us, is Damien Lewis.
Sarah:
[52:58] Damien Lewis?
Dave:
[52:59] Yep.
Sarah:
[53:00] Oh, we band of brothers. We few, we happy few.
Dave:
[53:06] We band of brothers. That is worth one point. Now, here comes a little twist. In the event of a tie, I need a tiebreaker. I do not have a 28th question. So the tiebreaker will be how many points you get, guessing the Shakespeare play that was from. So you got two scores to keep, Tiritara.
Tara:
[53:25] Okay.
Dave:
[53:25] What play is that from?
Sarah:
[53:27] I don't know.
Dave:
[53:29] That's Henry V. Henry V.
Alan:
[53:32] I literally watched the episode of Band of Brothers today on the treadmill where they quote the Henry V piece.
Sarah:
[53:38] So picky really fucked me.
Dave:
[53:40] Now, let's see how much they fucked you with your first Shakespeare snippet, Alan. That those that understood him smiled at one another and shook their heads.
Alan:
[53:52] It was to me. I'm trying to think like a Shakespeare title. I'm I'm going to need the hint.
Dave:
[53:59] All right. This show debuted in 2007 on ABC Family, as it was known at the time.
Alan:
[54:06] Greek. That those that understood him smiled at one another and.
Dave:
[54:11] Shook their heads. But for my own part, it was Greek to me. Greek is correct. That is a two-point answer from Alan. What play is that from Alan for a delicious bard point?
Alan:
[54:23] Oh, God. I'm going to say Much Ado About Nothing.
Dave:
[54:28] That is from Julius Caesar. Yes.
Tara:
[54:43] Oh, God. Hint.
Dave:
[54:47] 2022 FX.
Tara:
[54:50] The bear. What need we fear? Who knows it when none can call our power to account? Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him? Old man.
Dave:
[55:03] The old man, the answer there. Well, if those were your softball questions, buckle up. Here we go.
Alan:
[55:10] Casino.
Dave:
[55:11] The play, Tara. What play is that from?
Tara:
[55:12] Is that Macbeth?
Dave:
[55:13] That is Macbeth. All right.
Tara:
[55:15] Is that Scottish play?
Dave:
[55:16] Mm-hmm. Sarah, here you go. Second snippet. Tell them how Edward put to death a citizen only for saying he would make his son heir to the...
Sarah:
[55:29] Thereof was termed so. I'll get the crown. Tell them how Edward put to death a citizen only.
Dave:
[55:38] For saying he would make his son heir to the crown. That is a three-point answer. Nicely done, Sarah. Now, what play is that?
Sarah:
[55:48] Richard III.
Dave:
[55:49] Richard III is correct.
Tara:
[55:51] Do it!
Alan:
[55:52] Total sweet.
Dave:
[55:54] Alan, are you ready for play slash show number two?
Alan:
[55:58] Yes. A witch, by fear and not force like... ...drives, stench are from their hives and houses driven away, I need a hint this.
Dave:
[56:16] Show debuted 2013 on NBC.
Alan:
[56:21] Like a Chicago fire.
Dave:
[56:25] Is that your actual answer? you do have one more hint.
Alan:
[56:28] Yeah let's do one more hint.
Dave:
[56:31] Starring Hugh Dancy.
Alan:
[56:34] Um, oh, Hannibal? A witch, by fear and not force like Hannibal.
Dave:
[56:40] Drives back our troops and conquers as she lists. All right, that is worth one point. Now for a bar point. What play is that from?
Alan:
[56:48] Oh, geez, we already did Macbeth, which is the only Shakespeare play I instantly know that has a witch in it.
Dave:
[56:53] Plays can't repeat.
Tara:
[56:54] Okay.
Alan:
[56:55] Fine, Macbeth.
Dave:
[56:59] That is Henry VI, part one.
Tara:
[57:02] Yeah, Alan.
Dave:
[57:03] Yeah.
Tara:
[57:04] Back to Tara. Yep.
Sarah:
[57:06] Defend the justice of my cause with arms. And countrymen, my, that wear the imperial diadem of... Hint.
Dave:
[57:30] 2005 HBO. Stands for home box office.
Tara:
[57:36] True blood. I am his firstborn son that was the last that.
Dave:
[57:41] Wear the imperial diadem of Rome. Rome. It was Rome. All right. What's that play, Tara?
Tara:
[57:50] Julius Caesar.
Dave:
[57:52] Titus Andronicus.
Tara:
[57:53] Oh, the other one.
Sarah:
[57:54] Oh.
Dave:
[57:55] Back to Sarah D. Bunting.
Sarah:
[57:57] Yeah. It is great to me as late and supportable to make the dear loss have I means much weaker than you, my daughter. A daughter? Hint.
Dave:
[58:15] 2004, ABC.
Sarah:
[58:18] I really want to say Dirty Sexy Money, but I'm not going to. I'm going to ask for one more hint.
Dave:
[58:23] Evangeline Lilly is your actor performing for your pleasure here at the dinner theater and the show.
Sarah:
[58:29] Lost. For I have lost my daughter.
Dave:
[58:34] A daughter? There is your one point. What's that play?
Sarah:
[58:39] King Lear. Why not?
Dave:
[58:40] That is The Tempest. Back to Alan.
Sarah:
[58:45] That bitch.
Alan:
[58:46] Confess yourself to heaven. repent what's past avoid, make them ranker, yeah do not spread the compost on the auga to make them ranker yeah.
Dave:
[59:08] Thank you for using the correct term i.
Tara:
[59:10] Seriously know everybody else.
Alan:
[59:11] This is okay yeah all right uh let's take the 2005, Showtime. Brotherhood? And do not spread the compost.
Sarah:
[59:24] On the weeds to make them rancor.
Alan:
[59:27] Weeds.
Dave:
[59:27] Of course.
Sarah:
[59:29] That was the answer. What? Spread out of the L word? I don't know.
Dave:
[59:34] All right. What's that play, Alan, for a delicious part?
Alan:
[59:38] I'm just going to guess measure for measure for everyone for the rest of the game and see how that goes.
Dave:
[59:43] It didn't go for you here. That was Hamlet. Hamlet. Tara, are you ready?
Tara:
[59:47] Yeah.
Dave:
[59:49] But breathe his thoughts so quaintly that.
Tara:
[1:00:03] A savageness in unreclaimed blood of general assault. Hint.
Dave:
[1:00:10] 2014, The CW.
Tara:
[1:00:12] Arrow? The flash, an.
Sarah:
[1:00:14] Outbreak of a fiery mind.
Dave:
[1:00:18] The answer there, Tara, was The Flash. Right, universe? Wrong show. What's that play?
Tara:
[1:00:26] Othello.
Dave:
[1:00:28] Also Hamlet. To Sarah.
Sarah:
[1:00:31] English majors, folks.
Tara:
[1:00:33] I took a Shakespeare class, unlike you, and I still am not getting these.
Sarah:
[1:00:37] No, I did, too. I just didn't like it.
Alan:
[1:00:39] I majored in communications like a sensible person.
Dave:
[1:00:42] Everybody shut up. Here's the clip.
Sarah:
[1:00:44] Why? All the f***s in Venice Follow him, crying His stones.
Dave:
[1:00:53] Woo! Why all the blank in Venice follow him.
Sarah:
[1:00:59] Um, eh. Okay, hint.
Dave:
[1:01:04] 2019 Amazon Prime.
Sarah:
[1:01:08] Oh, it's so tempting, but I'm not going to do it. Hint.
Dave:
[1:01:11] Carl Urban is your actor.
Sarah:
[1:01:14] All the boys. Why? All the boys in Venice follow him, crying. His stones, his daughter.
Dave:
[1:01:22] And his ducats. Woo! All right, that is good for one point. What's that play?
Sarah:
[1:01:28] Twelfth Night.
Dave:
[1:01:31] Okay, look, guys. I can't help you if they mention Venice and you don't guess the Merchant of Venice has the play, but that's the play.
Tara:
[1:01:38] Oh, I thought it was Romeo and Juliet.
Sarah:
[1:01:40] There's a bunch of Venetian settings, but okay.
Dave:
[1:01:43] All right, back to Mr. Alan Steppenwall. None that beheld him, but like lesser lights, did veil their crowns to his.
Alan:
[1:01:57] The witch hath fire in darkness, none in light. Hint.
Dave:
[1:02:03] 2017, Netflix.
Alan:
[1:02:06] Hint.
Dave:
[1:02:08] Betty Gilpin performing for you today.
Alan:
[1:02:10] Glow. None that beheld him, but like lesser lights, did veil their crowns to his supremacy.
Dave:
[1:02:18] Where now his sun's like a glow worm in the night. That is good for a point. What's that play?
Alan:
[1:02:24] Measure for measure.
Dave:
[1:02:26] Measure for measure. Pericles, the answer there. A play I did not know existed before yesterday.
Sarah:
[1:02:34] Yeah.
Alan:
[1:02:35] You and me both.
Dave:
[1:02:36] Tara.
Tara:
[1:02:37] Yeah. The night is... Light and spirits will become, means evil but the devil, and we shall know him by his horns. Dark. The night is dark.
Dave:
[1:02:54] Light and spirits will become it well. You are correct. A three-point answer, Tara. Yay.
Tara:
[1:02:59] Yay.
Dave:
[1:03:00] All right.
Tara:
[1:03:01] Play?
Alan:
[1:03:01] What's the play?
Dave:
[1:03:02] Oh, yeah, the play. What's the play, Tara?
Tara:
[1:03:05] Is this measure for measure?
Dave:
[1:03:07] Is this measure for measure?
Tara:
[1:03:08] What if it was?
Dave:
[1:03:10] No, this is the Merry Wives of Windsor.
Tara:
[1:03:13] Oh, sure.
Dave:
[1:03:14] Back to Sarah D. Bundy. They say miracles are past, and we have our philosophical persons to.
Sarah:
[1:03:22] Familiar things and causeless. I'm sorry, can I hear the clip again? Would that be okay? They say miracles are past, and we have our philosophical persons to make modern.
Dave:
[1:03:35] And familiar things and causeless. They say miracles are past, and we have our philosophical persons to make modern and familiar things something and causeless.
Sarah:
[1:03:50] I can't get it to fit, so hint please.
Dave:
[1:03:53] 2005, the WB.
Sarah:
[1:03:55] Uh, uh, uh, nope. Hint.
Dave:
[1:03:58] Kathy's favorite actor, Jensen Ackles.
Sarah:
[1:04:03] Oh, supernatural? They say miracles are past, and we have our philosophical persons to.
Dave:
[1:04:11] Make modern and familiar things supernatural and causeless. You are correct for one point. What's that play?
Sarah:
[1:04:19] Is this also The Tempest?
Dave:
[1:04:21] This is all's well that ends well is it to alan, Now to plain dealing. Lay these glozes by. Shall we resolve to woo and win them too? Now to plain dealing. Lay these glozes by. We shall resolve to woo these show name of France.
Alan:
[1:04:48] Hint.
Dave:
[1:04:49] 2012 on HBO.
Alan:
[1:04:53] Oh, girls. Now to plain dealing. Lay these glozes by.
Dave:
[1:04:57] Shall we resolve to woo these girls of France? And win them too. You are correct. That is a two-point answer. Nicely done. What's that play? Just one second, please. Please stop guessing it. It's not in this quiz.
Tara:
[1:05:10] Okay.
Alan:
[1:05:12] Fine. If that's the case, let's see. What's a Shakespeare play where they go to France? I don't know. I mean, Two Gentlemen of Verona, which I know is in Italy.
Dave:
[1:05:25] That is love's labor's lost going into our first score break we're already over halfway done guys big cheer.
Tara:
[1:05:32] Yay yay poor tara yep oh a brave man yeah is it not oh it does a man's heart.
Dave:
[1:05:53] Say? There be. Feed those with swords. All right. Show name used twice there. Two awoogas.
Tara:
[1:06:01] Hen.
Dave:
[1:06:03] 2021, recent, on HBO.
Tara:
[1:06:08] Watchmen? Look, you want Haxer on his helmet.
Dave:
[1:06:11] Look, you want Haxer on his helmet. You still pick up a barred point. Also a play I've never heard of before yesterday.
Tara:
[1:06:21] Oh.
Dave:
[1:06:21] Yeah.
Alan:
[1:06:21] Isn't Haxer just on Max, by the way?
Dave:
[1:06:24] Yeah.
Tara:
[1:06:25] It was on HBO Max when it premiered.
Alan:
[1:06:27] Yeah.
Tara:
[1:06:30] A play you've never heard of. I don't even know. Richard VIII.
Dave:
[1:06:37] Troilus and Cressida. That is a play. All right. Let's get the scores, please, Tara.
Tara:
[1:06:46] Okay. I have three. Alan has six. Sarah's in the lead with seven.
Dave:
[1:06:51] Sarah likes her bookie books. Let's get back to it.
Sarah:
[1:06:55] Not really.
Dave:
[1:06:56] Not really. This one is for you, Sarah.
Sarah:
[1:06:59] You are not to be taught that you have many enemies that know not why they are so, but like to village.
Dave:
[1:07:10] But will you be more, your excuse but will you be more awooga.
Sarah:
[1:07:19] It's very tempting to just guess terriers um it seems like that's something that picky would do i'm not doing it hint please all.
Dave:
[1:07:28] Right this television program debuted 2010 on FX?
Sarah:
[1:07:35] Terriers.
Dave:
[1:07:38] All right. But will you be more justified?
Sarah:
[1:07:45] Oh, buddy.
Dave:
[1:07:47] All right. What play is that from?
Sarah:
[1:07:49] Oh, gosh. How about Coriolanus?
Dave:
[1:07:55] Henry VIII. Henry VIII. All right. This is question 17.
Tara:
[1:07:59] It's pretty.
Dave:
[1:07:59] It is for Alan. Here is your clip. What's to be done? Be innocent of the knowledge, dearest. Scarf up the tender eye of pitiful day. All right. Be innocent than knowledge, dearest. Show name.
Alan:
[1:08:27] Hint.
Dave:
[1:08:28] All right, this show debuted 2007 on NBC.
Alan:
[1:08:35] Dearest Chuck, let me see. It's not Chuck.
Sarah:
[1:08:45] God damn it.
Alan:
[1:08:48] It's not Heroes. It's a little bit sooner. I'm going to go with the second hint.
Dave:
[1:08:54] Yvonne Stravowski.
Alan:
[1:08:56] Shit, it is Chuck!
Dave:
[1:08:58] We all tried to warn you.
Tara:
[1:08:59] We did.
Alan:
[1:09:01] What's to be done? Be innocent of the knowledge.
Dave:
[1:09:05] Dearest Chuck. Till thou applaud the... Chuck means, you know, my love.
Sarah:
[1:09:10] Chuck.
Dave:
[1:09:10] That kind of thing. What's the play?
Alan:
[1:09:13] Let's try The Tempest.
Dave:
[1:09:15] That was Macbeth. Back to Tara.
Tara:
[1:09:19] Yeah. When first this order was ordained, my lords, knights of the garter were of noble birth.
Dave:
[1:09:33] For distress but always resolute in most extremes not fearing death nor awooga for distress but always resolute in most extremes hint, 2023 Apple TV Plus, one more hint if you need it.
Tara:
[1:09:53] I know I'm just trying to think of Apple TV Plus shows the last No, I'll take the last hand.
Dave:
[1:10:01] Your actor performing for you, surprisingly, Harrison Ford.
Tara:
[1:10:06] Oh, shrinking. Not fearing death nor shrinking for distress.
Dave:
[1:10:10] But always resolute in most extremes. That is correct. It is worth one point. What's the play?
Tara:
[1:10:18] Warmey and Juliet.
Dave:
[1:10:20] Henry VI, part one.
Tara:
[1:10:22] Okay.
Dave:
[1:10:23] This is question... And it is for Sarah D. Bundy. Sir, I lack advancement. How can that be when you have the voice himself for your... In Denmark? How can that be when you have the voice of the king himself for your awooga in Denmark?
Sarah:
[1:10:48] Hint.
Dave:
[1:10:50] 2018 HBO.
Sarah:
[1:10:53] Hint.
Dave:
[1:10:54] Jeremy Strong Jeremy Strong It's all on Grundy Week Oh.
Sarah:
[1:11:00] Yes Succession B when you have the voice of the king himself.
Dave:
[1:11:06] For your succession in Denmark Good for one point Here's the toughie, what play is that?
Sarah:
[1:11:12] There's something rotten in Denmark And it's us That is Hamlet Hamlet is correct.
Dave:
[1:11:17] Alright back to Alan I stand in.
Tara:
[1:11:21] Pause Where I shall first begin and both neglect.
Dave:
[1:11:42] Awuga, this cursed hand were thicker than itself with brother's blood.
Alan:
[1:11:47] First hand, please.
Dave:
[1:11:50] 2021 Disney Plus.
Alan:
[1:11:54] 2021 Disney Plus. This cursed hand.
Tara:
[1:12:00] Guess WandaVision.
Alan:
[1:12:00] Hawkeye. I'm not going to guess WandaVision.
Dave:
[1:12:03] What if it was WandaVision? It's just like Chuck.
Alan:
[1:12:06] No, no, that was 2020. 20.
Dave:
[1:12:11] Yep, that's the logic to apply.
Alan:
[1:12:14] All right, it's not the Book of Boba Fett. I'm going to go with the second hint, please.
Dave:
[1:12:19] Hayley Atwell.
Alan:
[1:12:21] Oh, What If? What if this cursed.
Dave:
[1:12:24] Hand was thicker than each? What If is correct. That is good. For one point, what's that play?
Alan:
[1:12:31] Macbeth again?
Dave:
[1:12:33] Hamlet again. Hamlet, two in a row. Two Tara Ariano. Oh, sun, burn a sphere, Darklings, stand the varying shore of the world. All right, that was, Oh, sun, burn a wooga, sphere thou movest in.
Tara:
[1:12:57] Hint.
Dave:
[1:12:58] 2020, Hulu.
Tara:
[1:13:03] Hint, next hint.
Dave:
[1:13:05] L. Fanning.
Tara:
[1:13:06] The Great.
Dave:
[1:13:08] Oh, son, burn the great sphere thou movest in. You are correct there for one point. What's that play?
Tara:
[1:13:18] The Jampist?
Dave:
[1:13:20] Nope, that's Antony and Cleopatra. To Sarah D. Bunting. Your praises are too large, but that your youth and the... out an unstained shepherd. With wisdom, I might fear my Darocles. Your praises are too large, but that in your youth, and the awooga which peepeth fairly through it.
Sarah:
[1:13:49] Hint.
Dave:
[1:13:52] 2008, HBO. Hint, Anna Paquin.
Sarah:
[1:14:00] Again?
Tara:
[1:14:01] No, I think I guessed it and it wasn't correct.
Sarah:
[1:14:05] Oh, okay. Then True Blood will be my guess. Your praises are too large. But that your youth and the True Blood.
Dave:
[1:14:13] Which peeps fairly through it, do plainly give you out an understanding. True Blood is correct. That is worth one point. What's that play not mentioned yet in the play column?
Tara:
[1:14:21] Ooh.
Sarah:
[1:14:21] Ah, that sounds like Romeo and Juliet to me.
Dave:
[1:14:24] Well, it isn't. You're dumb.
Sarah:
[1:14:26] It's Winter's Tale.
Alan:
[1:14:28] Oh, man. I was hoping it was John from Cincinnati, but okay.
Dave:
[1:14:33] Oh, my God, what if? That'd be great. All right, Alan.
Alan:
[1:14:36] Yeah. By my truth, my lord, I cannot tell what to think of it, but that she loves him.
Dave:
[1:14:49] Spirit was against all assaults of affection. All right. I would have thought her spirit had been a wooga against all assaults of affection.
Alan:
[1:15:02] All right. I'm what the hell? I'm going to go for it.
Dave:
[1:15:06] All right. I like this big swing. Here we go. What do you got?
Alan:
[1:15:09] Invincible. I had thought her spirit was invincible against all assaults. Yeah. Hell yeah.
Dave:
[1:15:16] It's a three point answer for Seppin' Wall.
Tara:
[1:15:19] Pretty good hint for the play too, I think.
Dave:
[1:15:22] All right. What's the play?
Alan:
[1:15:23] All right, Taming of the Shrew.
Tara:
[1:15:25] No!
Dave:
[1:15:26] No, Much Ado About Nothing. That was the movie you heard there with Agent Coulson.
Tara:
[1:15:32] Sure, Clark Gregg.
Dave:
[1:15:34] Thank you.
Alan:
[1:15:35] Oh, okay.
Dave:
[1:15:36] All right, Tara.
Tara:
[1:15:36] Yep. Within the infant rind of this weak flower, poison hath resistance.
Dave:
[1:15:48] Being tasted, slays all senses with. For this being smelt with that part, a wooga, each part being tasted, slays all senses with the heart.
Tara:
[1:16:01] Mm-hmm. Hint.
Dave:
[1:16:04] 1982, NBC.
Tara:
[1:16:06] Family ties?
Dave:
[1:16:08] Oh, big and a big swing. Within the infant rind of this weak flower, poison hath resistance For this being smelt with that part, cheers each part. Cheers the answer there but Tara you can pick up a delicious bar point Okay.
Tara:
[1:16:25] Is this Romeo and.
Dave:
[1:16:26] Juliet? This is Romeo and Juliet Correct Everybody's last question is coming at you You've all been good sports I believe you all hate Shakespeare with a passion now, Shakespeare second Dan Casino number one Bringing a lot of negative energy to a lot of work people put into this game but let's get the scores Okay.
Tara:
[1:16:45] Team Kit Marlowe We love Dan and we love Dave.
Dave:
[1:16:49] We love all Shakespearean actors.
Tara:
[1:16:50] Too. I have five. Sarah has nine. Alan has 11. So it's still anyone's game but mine.
Dave:
[1:16:56] Okay. Let's get back to it. Everybody has one question left. Sarah D. Bunting, here is your last Shakespeare snippet. I cry you mercy, then. I took you for that, opposite to saint peter and keep the gate of hell you you mistress have that awooga opposite to saint peter and keep the gate of hell.
Sarah:
[1:17:34] Okay, Kent, please.
Dave:
[1:17:37] 2005 NBC.
Sarah:
[1:17:42] There's no way. I got to guess. Dark Angel. You, mistress, that have the office opposite to St. Peter and keep the gate of hell. You.
Dave:
[1:17:53] That was the office. All right. What's the play? No, it has not been an answer yet.
Tara:
[1:18:00] But I think it is said in the clip.
Dave:
[1:18:02] Might have been guessed, but yes.
Sarah:
[1:18:03] Yeah.
Dave:
[1:18:04] That's not yet an answer. Othello is correct. Alan, here is your last clip. And yet, to say the truth, reason and love keep, May I can gleek upon occasion. All right. More the pity that some honest neighbors will not make them a Wooga.
Alan:
[1:18:38] All right, I need one hint.
Dave:
[1:18:40] 1994, NBC.
Alan:
[1:18:42] Friends? The more the pity that some honest neighbors.
Dave:
[1:18:46] Will not make them friends. You are correct.
Tara:
[1:18:50] Two points for Friends.
Dave:
[1:18:52] What is that play? Da-da-da-da-da. Not yet an answer for the Bard Point.
Alan:
[1:18:57] All right, well, there's a donkey in the background, so I'm going to take a wild swing. Is that Midsummer Night's Dream?
Dave:
[1:19:02] It is, yes. All right, here is our last question. It is for Tong.
Sarah:
[1:19:08] But a good conscience.
Alan:
[1:19:10] Will make any possible satisfaction. And so would I. All the gentlewomen here.
Dave:
[1:19:26] Gentlewomen, which was never seen in such an assembly. All right. If a wooga will not, then a wooga do not agree with the gentlewomen, which was never seen before in such an assembly.
Tara:
[1:19:41] I feel like it's someone's name, but I don't want to just.
Dave:
[1:19:44] Let me read that again. You're out of contention, right?
Tara:
[1:19:46] Oh, yes, definitely.
Dave:
[1:19:47] If a wooga will not, then a wooga do not agree with the gentlewomen, which was never seen before in such an assembly.
Tara:
[1:19:57] Okay. The gentlemen? All the gentlewomen here have forgiven me. If the gentlemen will not.
Dave:
[1:20:04] Then the gentlemen do not agree with the gentlewomen. All right. There is your big three points to end it. What's the bard play? It's something part two.
Tara:
[1:20:14] Sounds like a comedy. Oh, then I'll never. Henry the seventh.
Dave:
[1:20:21] You fucked up. Henry the fifth. The other one. The exciting first edition of the Henry sequel, part two. It's the one with all the clones.
Tara:
[1:20:31] Sure.
Dave:
[1:20:31] Yeah. All right. That is it. Let's get our end of Shakespeare. Oh, my God. I'm just going to say it. Never to be played again on Extra Hot Crane, judging by our player's mood here. Let's get the final scores.
Tara:
[1:20:45] I finished with seven. Sarah had nine. Alan is our winner with 13.
Sarah:
[1:20:52] All right.
Dave:
[1:20:53] The boy who's never made Shakespeare wins the day.
Tara:
[1:20:56] And he came in last in bard points. He had one. I had two. Sarah, the bardiest with three.
Dave:
[1:21:01] All right. Well, consolation prize for you, Sarah.
Sarah:
[1:21:04] Bardsy.
Dave:
[1:21:04] Congratulations, Alan.
Dave:
[1:21:11] guessed. Well, I loved it, Dan. I was really excited for that game. I'm sorry that these people... I thought with two English majors here, they would be like all over that shit. They'd be like, give me that Shakespeare! Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. Instead they're like, like a band of brothers? I thought that was a slam dunk. I apologize. Anyways, that is it for another episode of Extra Hot Great. We stuck our opinions of Hulu's Paradise Where the Sun Don't Shine before shining a light on recent TV offerings on Around the Dial, namely, common side effects, Mythic Quest, and Leonardo da Vinci. Alan put together a meticulous plan to get Better Call Saul's season six stunner into the canon, and we all agree, in the end, he killed it. We crowned winners and losers of the week, and Alan was the winner of this week's Game Time from Dan. Next up, Lifetime's OJ Simpson story on the Friday Club Only Extra Extra Hot. Great. If you have some coin, you must join. That's a little OJ humor to get you through to Friday. But seriously, you can join at ExtraHotGrate.com. Remember, we're listening. I am David Ticol, and on behalf of Tari Ariano.
Tara:
[1:22:25] Maybe cool it with the basketball metaphors.
Dave:
[1:22:27] Sarah D. Bunting.
Sarah:
[1:22:29] Pretty sure it's pronounced barfling.
Dave:
[1:22:31] And Saul Goodman v. Jimmy McGill out February 4th. Alan Sevenwall.
Alan:
[1:22:36] No, really, they built this city in Iraq.
Dave:
[1:22:38] Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time, right here on Extra Hot Great.
Clip:
[1:22:47] Is this how these usually go?