Stuffing Your Stocking With Holiday Canons

Dave: [0:14] This is the Extra Hot Great Podcast, episode 541 for the week of December 16th, 2024. I am free comb. I'm not Sarah. Tara: [0:34] You wish. Dave: [0:35] I wish. Sarah: [0:35] Aren't you? Dave: [0:36] Merry Christmas to me. I'm Sarah D. Bunting. This is the Extra Hot Great Podcast, episode 541 for the week of December 16th, 2021. I am Free Comb David T. Cole, and I'm here with Madam Forewoman Sarah D. Bunting, and Manashevis aficionado Tara Arellano. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Extra Hot Great Happy Holidays. Merry Christmas. Today, we have for you two canon presentations and one nonac presentation, all themed around the holidays. So I say we just get right to it. Tara: [1:35] Oh, let's do. Dave: [1:36] Our first canon presentation is by me. Yes, this episode of the Twilight Zone I'm going to present has all the Twilight Zone stuff you want and you need. It's dark, it's karmic, it's morality play, and it's touched by the extraordinary or perhaps the supernatural. This, however, is not explicitly a holiday episode, despite airing on Christmas Day in 1959. There is a Christmas episode of The Twilight Zone that actually has a Santa Claus in it. It's the one with Art Carney. He plays a drunk store Santa who gets roped into becoming the real Santa. And it's kind of so-so. It's not darkly delicious like this one is. This one is Season 1, Episode 12, What You Need. It is, I would argue, a coded holiday special. So I think it fits. It features a mortal Santa Claus as a doodad salesman. Now, this isn't part of my canonical canon presentation, but in my mind, the backstory is that Santa Claus was usurped and cast out of his workshop at the North Pole and is on the run, but still doing Santa-esque things. Okay, here's the episode as presented. Tara: [2:52] He's Santee Daytona? Dave: [2:53] Yes, exactly. Tara: [2:54] Okay, great. Dave: [2:54] Yes, he's a regular human salesman. Sarah: [2:57] Yep, normal human claws. Yep. Dave: [3:00] All right. We open on a neighborhood bar on a cold and rainy night. Inside of the bar is a motley crew of drunks, office workers, and people in between. The nice thing about putting a Twilight Zone episode up for the canon is that Rod Serling can do the introductions for you. So here he is talking about the two main characters. You're looking at Mr. Fred Renard, who carries on his shoulder a chip the. Dave: [4:01] So fred renard that's the boy the guy that rod's just slagging on for a while there looks like the hired goon type you know who's at the door goons what hired goons he looks like those kind of people and the other guy the small man is padat he's an old sort of slight guy white hair, white mustache. The Twilight Zone-y schtick here is that Padat wanders the city, sells his bips and bobs from his briefcase, and he doesn't sell you what you want, he sells you what you need. His first customer of the night is a young office worker who asks for a book of matches. Something for you, miss? I guess. Dave: [5:19] It's what you need. So, is this Rod Sterling's way of saying all women need is to get out of the workplace and back at the home making sandwiches? No, it's not, but we'll get back to it. By the way, Girl in Bar, as she is credited, is played by Arlene Martell, who is best remembered for playing... Anybody look it up? Best remembered for playing Spock's betrothed to Pring on the original Star Trek series. A character brought back for Strange New Worlds. Tara: [5:49] Love it. Dave: [5:50] All right. So he's working the bar, this old guy with his suitcase full of little do's and daz and choshkis. His next customer is Lefty, a washed out former major league pitcher for the Cubs. When he's asked what he needs, he says he needs a new left arm. Padot says what he needs is this, a bus ticket to Scranton, Pennsylvania. you. What's in Scranton? Well, one never knows. Lefty? Yeah? Telephone. Scranton, Pennsylvania. Problem is, that lefty needs to clean himself up to meet the general manager, and the only code he has is stained. Tara: [6:51] Excuse me. I couldn't help but overhear. Why don't you try this? It's. Dave: [7:01] Let me try. All right. Dave: [7:06] So here's my other outside of the canon theory here is that Lefty the Pitcher and Tepring the office worker are actually Kevin's grandparents from the office now. They fall in love here. They move to Scranton. And two generations later, they got that big guy dropping chili on the floor. Dave: [7:27] Watching all this go down is the goonish fred and it's obvious that there's something about fred that puts padat at ill ease he leaves fred follows him outside menaces him and gets a pair of scissors because according to padat they are what he needs fred goes home to the condo or hotel i'm not quite sure exactly what the situation there but he goes into the elevator gets his scarf caught in the elevator door as it ascends. And while you can see where this is going, what he really need was scissors to cut the scarf out before he choked to death as the elevator went up. He's a true believer now. He's still an asshole, but he's a true believer asshole. He then breaks into Badat's apartment for more of what he needs. What do you got in there? Some kind of machine? Crystal ball? Dave: [8:37] You got a partner now. So Padat eventually gives him a leaky fountain pen from his coat pocket. And it's what he needs. He opens it. Fred does. And it immediately starts leaking. He's kind of angry with it. Then he notices that it dripped ink on the line of the racing paper for a winning horse, he thinks, in tomorrow's race. He actually wins. He makes hundreds of dollars, but the pen only works once, as everything does from this magical suitcase. So he returns to Menace Padat for more of what he needs. Dave: [9:11] These shoes are too tight. Dave: [10:30] All right, so what you heard there but couldn't see is that Fred, in his new tight and slippery shoes, walks towards Padat and he slips on the water-slash-slushy ice of the street outside of the bar and slips into the road and a car just smacks him and he dies. Padat explains it. Mr. Renard, what I saw in. Dave: [11:23] Slippery showers, after that there's a weird I'm going to say unnecessary coda involving a guy getting a comb but eventually Rod Serling will wrap it up for us street scene night traffic accident victim, And that is What You Need, the tale of an outcast Santa Claus who still has some of his magical powers and uses them to kill somebody. Fantastic. This actually did air on Christmas. I don't know if I mentioned that up top. It was the Christmas episode for 1959 and kind of a ballsy choice, I think, you know, for that period to show something like this, you know, in prime time, but still, you know, kids are hopped up on sugar all day. They're going to be up. They're going to be watching this shit. And here you got this old man, this nice old man just trying to sell gum and matches and he gives this guy shoes and he fucking gets run over right in front of everybody. Fantastic. I loved it. I hope you did too. Tara: [12:40] I'll go first. Dave, thank you so much. I'd never seen this before. I love the theoretical backstory that this is what Santa is doing with his time these days because it feels it does feel right. Like the way that the Twilight Zone considering how long ago it was made like just fucking goes for it like going this hard for an episode that airs on Christmas is so boring. Bold and definitely not something i would have thought would happen this long ago i can barely imagine like i mean a network show doing this now like just daring to confront all of the you know happy overstuffed families on christmas night with this like you said this this revenge story it's so glorious and the best part is that so often with the twilight zone like it is the scary door joke of like turns out it was man where like most episodes or i won't say most many episodes you see where they're going like three minutes in this one is legitimately suspenseful and the device of how they reveal why the thing that's needed is the thing that's needed is so unpredictable and great and right up until the very end i mean i you know i i don't know that the the comb thing is that unnecessary i mean i sort of feel like so let me. Dave: [14:01] Just quickly explain it then. Tara: [14:02] Since you mentioned. Dave: [14:03] It so what happens is the guy has just run over a couple comes out of the apartment building where it all just happened in front of and the newspaper and the ambulance and everybody is there and the newspaper guy says i want to take your picture and the wife's like oh my god run presentable harry or whatever his name is like the comb the comb brush your hair it looked like a goof and you know and then he brushes his hair and. Tara: [14:23] He gets. Dave: [14:24] Their picture in the. Tara: [14:25] Paper and then he's like oh shit because he you know got the got the comb as the thing he needed and was like what the hell and then of course it was and i i just like that where it's like padat hasn't turned you know what i mean like you need to see he's still the same generally well-meaning kindly character i won't say person he might not be a person but guy that he always was this hasn't like soured him he's not going to be giving everyone slippery shoes from now on he's still he's still himself It's just that Fred Renard was a problem that he solved. And I love that. I just think this is so great. Like, there's not much else to say. It's a perfect pick. Very dark Christmas story. But I love that. Sarah? Sarah: [15:08] I would argue that this is more in terms of the Christmas coding, in addition to the God resty merry gentleman leitmotif that you're hearing throughout the episode in the background, many scenes. I would argue that it is coded more to It's a Wonderful Life and Capra than to, like, explicitly Santa Claus. Not that there aren't overlaps there, but I felt that Padat was more of a Clarence, the angel figure, than a fallen Lucifer-Ranta situation. And part of the reason that I think I mapped onto that as a parallel is that this is 25 minutes long, so it does have that 1950s stately pace. But like It's a Wonderful Life and Capra, in my opinion, not everybody believes this, the lead up to certain emotional payoffs has been paced very carefully and thoughtfully. And here, it has taken you long enough to get to Padat's experience of what Rod Serling told you about Renard being just kind of an irremediable butthole that you're like, oh, I agree. So, like, the audience understands that Padad is basically murdering this guy, but by that time, you're fine with it because they very carefully established that he has no choice and what the universe needs is for this guy's slippery shoes to... Dave: [16:33] Well, in the Twilight Zone, they have stand your ground laws. Tara: [16:36] So... Sarah: [16:38] All right. Fair. Tara: [16:40] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [16:40] I mean, and only one person in that situation could stand their ground. The other one's feet shot out from under him, and nobody was that sad about it. But this is part of what I'm talking about, that Capra-esque careful seeding of the situation emotionally, so that the audience is where you need them to be by the time your writing gets there. That was also very reminiscent to me. But also occasionally these moments of ryness. As well, it's 1959. 159. So someone is angrily referred to as a crumbum, because this is like the height of swearing. What's the gag old timer? Like, I mean, you could not make up this dialogue. Like the parody of the thing is the same as the thing. And I kind of love it. I always forget, like, sometimes it really is like Tara said, like the, you know, it was man all along. But other times it's like, you're not exactly sure what the framework is of this version of the universe and that's okay yeah and so in my notes it's like he gets the shoes and it's like are these going to be in his casket is that why they don't fit because who cares if they fit right is this going to be and then you hear the screeching of tires and you're like sweet because i'm fucking sick of this guy menacing clarence yeah and uh off Clarence goes. So, yeah, excellent presentation. And yeah, I agree with Tara that this is, I think for 1959, like Christmas night. Sarah: [18:08] Okay, that's kind of dark, but I do think audiences at that time might actually not have mapped onto It's a Wonderful Life. I don't think that was necessarily the like Christmastime thing that it is in our timeline yet. That helped me get in sort of a mindset of this is how this would have gone over as this dark on this day back then. Dave: [18:33] It would be like gathering the family around in 2024 to watch that episode of Black Mirror where they're all hunting each other in the forest like a revenge story. And your kids got tears running down their face. Sarah: [18:44] But you're like, but it's fir trees and your kids are like rocking themselves. Dave: [18:49] What happened to Mr. Bear? Sarah: [18:51] Oh, well. He's at a farm outside of Scranton. Dave: [18:55] Ready to put this to the vote then? Tara: [18:57] Yes. Dave: [18:58] All right, Tari Arianna, what say you? Tara: [19:00] I say yay. Dave: [19:01] Sir D. Bunting. Sarah: [19:03] Yes, please. Dave: [19:04] All right, so. So that means The Twilight Zone, season one, episode 12, What You Need. You are hereby inducted into the extra hot Grey Cannon. Dave: [19:26] Oh, things got all reversed. That means it's time for the Nonac and presenting our Nonac. I guess this is a Nonac sandwich and the cannon is the bread. So let's get right into the meaty feeling that is Sarah D. Bunting's presentation. Sarah: [19:42] Hello. Let's contemplate an episode that puts the mist back in mistletoe. Veronica Mars, Season 2, Episode 10, One Angry Veronica. Sarah: [19:53] One Angry Veronica isn't objectively terrible television, but it's bad enough that it got a C-plus from Television Without Pity's recapper, my esteemed colleague and Go Pirates co-host John Ramos, which was his lowest grade of an episode to date at that time. More to the point, One Angry Veronica is bad in ways we count on Veronica Mars not to be bad the rest of the time. Here is a quick context refresh on plot. This is the episode in which Veronica, Kristen Bell, gets a jury duty summons, as implied by the episode title's play on 12 Angry Men. We'll get back to that foolishness in a sec, but this is also the episode in which the sex tapes that constitute the case-in-chief against Aaron Eccles, Harry Hamlin, for killing Lily Kane, Amanda Seyfried, get stolen from the Neptune PD evidence lockup by Deputy Leo, Max Greenfield, so that he could sell them to the highest bidder and send his little sister, who has downs, to a private school, and so that the highest bidder, Logan, Jason Doering, could watch the tapes, cry all emo, and then erase the tapes for all intents and purposes handing his scumbag father an acquittal. And did I mention that Meg Manning, Alonital, comes out of a coma just long enough to make Veronica promise not to let Meg's parents have custody of her unborn coma baby, and then throws a blood clot and dies offscreen. Sarah: [21:19] If that sounds atypically slapped up and soapy for this generally much better regarded and thought out show, it is. And that's as good a segue as any into my list of reasons one angry Veronica is no knack worthy. Number one, credibility issues in the timeline. Let's start with Veronica's jury duty. She receives the summons on the eve of her winter holiday break from school. She is selected and the case is called and heard and then she and the rest of the jury are deliberating. Before Christmas, after Christmas, and right up to New Year's Eve. Absolutely not how court scheduling works or has ever worked anywhere in the United States. And in the world of the show, there's no way Veronica would get selected in the second place. Veronica and her father Keith, Enrico Colantoni, are well known to most of the community as PIs. A keystone of the show's noir verse is that Veronica is an outsider, thanks partly to her father's handling of Lily Kane's murder prior to the events of the first season. Events that got him booted out of the sheriff's office. These are known figures in Neptune, known because of their contact and involvement with law enforcement. Sarah: [22:26] Exactly zero attorneys are letting Veronica, an 18-year-old might I just remind you, through to a jury. It is also not credible that Veronica is still with Duncan. Teddy is log done. At all. Never mind after the revelation that Meg's coma baby is his. But if they are going to be together, how does Veronica not see Duncan at all during the holidays, which she doesn't, or make any mention of why she hasn't seen him, which ditto. Sarah: [22:54] Reason number two, it's poorly executed. Veronica Mars has plenty of plots that don't totally hold together if you think about them for too long. But in most of those instances, the show has the pacing and flair to get away with them. Not here. Leaving aside 20-year-old terminology about sex work like hooker and hoeing that clatter on the ear today, the jury deliberation scenes are all telling, no showing, just scene after scene of exposition, although only one of these scenes per day, according to the costume changes. And every other juror in the room, regardless of age or background, uses exactly the same snarky, over-it tone and diction that Veronica does, as we'll hear in clip one damn you know i think you're right matrix miles incredible cornerback. Sarah: [23:52] Ex-jog managed to leap over that wall? Sure, a character credited as knitting grandmother, Yvonne Call, is going to say stuff like no-cartilage-having. And yes, the other guy in that clip, a sports radio host, is only just now going to remember these details about a material witness in this case that they have been thinking about for a week. The episode overall feels like someone in the writer's room just couldn't bear to give up on a theoretical Veronica serves on a jury episode. But when it became clear it wasn't really working, they just fucking rushed through it to have it done with. Clumsily samey dialogue would seem to support that theory, as would real sloppy editing like we're going to hear in clip two. You want to miss more bowl games? Give me a break, Daddy Warbucks. Tara: [24:40] She laid out a good... Pardon me, Ms. Morris. The judge would like to see you in her chambers. Sarah: [24:45] You don't want another take where the line gets jumped or is in the same zip code as jumped? You don't want to fix that in post? Just gonna leave that community theater mystic shit in there? Cool. Merry Christmas to you too. Reason number three. It does Meg, Leo, the actress who play them, and the audience who gave a shit about them, dirty. Without getting too bogged down in backstory here, Meg ended up a casualty of the second season's big mystery being a little too complex, and of the writers needing an off-ramp, as it were, for Duncan, which is how Meg ended up with a fucking coma baby and then getting killed off. The actor and the character both deserved better than to die off-screen, and to have Veronica hear about it the way she does in clip three. I just got a call from the hospital. Meg died. Sarah: [25:48] A clot made its way to her heart a tiny girl who's a survivor oh my god i got it, what i don't get is why the writing had to do leo like this the script tries to give him noble motivations but here again it just seems like somebody felt that the tapes had to get to logan eccles and they just worked backwards from that goal and then tripped over every fucking piece of furniture between them and the center of the room. That's how you get assassinated characters dumping yet more exposition, phrased in out-of-character ways, clip four. I nearly gave a taste back, thinking about him plastered all over the internet. Sarah: [26:44] Well you know i can't just let you slide on this one leo, pouring over first draftee kind of doesn't begin maybe someone should have poured over the rest of the script since keith uh basically does let him slide and not for the last time and the character comes back repeatedly in the future and keeps failing up i mean i'm fine with it he's hot and And I love that accent, but please. I don't know what happened with one angry Veronica. Not really. Maybe they forgot they needed a December episode and just shat this out, hoping it would provide some functional connective plot tissue for future episodes in the second season. Maybe someone's pot brownie ass, what if Veronica but a courtroom drama idea got too far, and by the time everyone realized it was a clanker, they were already shooting the thing. But I know that even co-creator Rob Thomas knows the episode stank because he said as much on a panel some years back, and so I hope this panel puts one angry Veronica in the EHG nonac. Tara: [27:45] Thank you, Sarah. I started last time. So Dave, why don't you go first? Dave: [27:49] Okay. So my overall thing is that I know this is more disappointing than it is anything else to Sarah, because we didn't get that like Sarah D. Bunting, super concentrated, sharp rant when it's just something ridiculous, right? Like there's something where when the canon is so bad and poorly done and has such stupid ideas that you get like that three minute rant at double XB, right? And this one, concept execution just felt like, you know, they handed it to the intern because they forgot it was a 22 episode order and not a 21 episode order. Sarah: [28:27] Yeah, that's what I just said. Totally. Dave: [28:29] And it shows because like I'm not a big Veronica Mars watcher. I think I've seen like most of the series at one time or another. But even watching this, like what is off about this episode? Why does it feel like everybody's not really inhabiting their characters or suddenly the characters had a heel turn that seems very foreign to what I know about them? And it just kind of felt like somebody was coming in with like Wikipedia understanding of what these people were supposed to be doing and what their vibe was. And then you get this sort of like lazy, 12 Angry Men-esque presentation with other weird stuff happening, like somebody who is pregnant dying off screen, which is what the hell? Like, if nothing else, don't you know that that is the time to let the actor do all the acting and die with, and then like, oh no, the baby, and then the baby lives and way. But no, like that, even that part, which could have provided some emotional, not if not center, but stakes or something to this episode is just a napkin on the storyboard, you know, tacked on. Oh yeah. She died on her way back to her home heaven planet. perfect. Sarah: [29:43] Yeah she got poochied perfectly to put it. Dave: [29:45] So it just seemed very veronica fars like you know what i mean like the genuine veronica fars product and it just kept going and there weren't a lot of like oh they got at their moments that even like pull it back where you can be like this is just a bad episode but it's not really no knack you're like oh no this is just like disappointing from like start to from stem to stern i gotta say bringing it back oh okay and it just felt like nobody was really engaged with making this episode from on camera or behind the camera yeah so i totally get it. Tara: [30:25] I agree with everything you said i will also add like the the motivation of like if you have to make the case and i don't remember what happens after this i haven't watched the show since it was on. But the idea that we need to get these tapes out of the way to make the court case at all compelling because otherwise it's like open and shut for logan to be like i don't want people to see those mpegs lol on the internet i know like okay but you like the news is already out that they were having a i mean i'm sure as i'm sure it was called an affair like not that he was stat raping his underage girlfriend right like don't you don't want your dad convicted this fucking scumbag like seriously you're gonna you're gonna do you're gonna obstruct justice like this wow also like the whole thing of the show is the police department in neptune is like. Tara: [31:20] Legendarily corrupt except for leo so you're gonna like sell him out like this just because he had a new girl audition or whatever it was like awful and then on top of all of that i mean i hear what you're saying, Sarah, about like the jury scenes are all telling no showing like that at least is congruent with the very obvious, like not subtle, you know, 12 Angry Men homage that they're trying to do. But if you're going to do that, even if you come up with some kind of hand wave of how Veronica Mars did get on this jury, if that's the bit that you're doing, do it all the way. Make it a bottle episode. Make it only courts are only juror scenes. that's. Sarah: [32:02] A really good point too yeah. Tara: [32:03] The claustrophobia is a huge part of what makes 12 angry men work like if you're gonna do that do it all the way don't bring in all of these other don't show her at home making you know cornish game don't show her meg in the hospital like just do this for the whole episode if that's the idea and then it felt like they lost their nerve with that too so yep that's also a bummer especially for a show like this that like was not scared of doing homages and had a lot of ambitions, you made an excellent argument and there's just a lot to hate here. Good job. Good pick. Dave: [32:42] I do. I do have a question. Right at the start of the episode, there is a scene at like an outdoor lunch area, seating area at the school. I think of Veronica talking with. Tara: [32:52] Duncan. Dave: [32:52] Duncan. Sarah: [32:53] Duncan. Dave: [32:53] And there's a guy behind them that's on the football team or something. He is number 25. Music man. Tara: [32:59] Yeah. Dave: [33:00] What's the story behind music man, Sarah? Sarah: [33:03] Don't know. Dave: [33:04] Oh. Well, there's something this episode could have explored. He probably died too. We just didn't hear about it. Sarah: [33:10] All right. Dave: [33:11] Let's put this to the no-knack vote, Tara. What say you? Tara: [33:15] Yay. Dave: [33:16] Yeah, me too. So. Da. Da. That means that Veronica Mars, season two, episode 10, And one angry Veronica You are hereby inducted into the extra hot great no-net, Dave: [34:03] It's time to wrap it up with our second piece of bread Here in the Holiday Canon It's Tara What do you got? Tara: [34:10] So across its 11 seasons, we don't acknowledge the sequel. Frasier did eight Christmas episodes, but one jumped out to me as soon as we decided to do this special, and I could not stop thinking about it after that. So we are going to be talking about season six, episode 10, Merry Christmas, Mrs. Moskowitz. Here is why I think it should be inducted into the canon. Number one, it introduces an eventual quasi-antagonist who can actually hang. In the cold open, Frazier and Roz are holiday shopping at an apartment store, Frazier expositing that Freddie won't be coming to Seattle this year and reminding us that Freddie and Lilith are Jewish, hence Frazier's gift of a menorah, which presumably will reach Freddie too late for this Hanukkah, but never mind. When Roz steps away, Frazier tries to pick out a sweater for her on the sly, but she retunes sooner than he expects. Clip one. Use your sweater. Is he talking to you? No. Tara: [35:25] Will take a smaller size in the blue and please gift wrap it. Coming right up. So that's Helen, the Mrs. Moskowitz of the episode title. Well, she's a complete stranger to Frasier and Roz. She could have been written as a nightmare, but she's kind of cool. Or perhaps I only think that because I love inserting myself in other shoppers' business, and so does Sarah. We've done it together many times. Anyway, someone this good at lying will fit right in with Frasier and all the shenanigan-prone people in his social circle. And she will be in that circle, at least briefly, because the cold open ends on Helen deftly determining that Frasier is single and suggesting that he go on a date with her daughter, Faye. Number two, it acknowledges that Christmas is not the only holiday. Initially, this comes out via Daphne's involvement in a Christmas review that is going up in the common room in Frasier's building. Clip two. Is the show more religious in tone or secular? Well, we couldn't quite agree. So we ended. Tara: [36:34] All linking arms and singing Frosty the Snowman. For those of our listeners who are not familiar with the Bible stories that the holiday of Christmas is based on, Jesus Christ Superstar does not really pertain. Later on, Faye, Helen's daughter with whom Frasier has had one successful coffee date, stops by on her way out of town and gets a surprise in the form of the wreath over Frasier's fireplace. Clip three. Aren't you Jewish? No, why do you ask? The, my son. My ex-wife is Jewish. Oh, God. Is there a problem? For me, no, but my mother is another story, and here I was wondering what we talk about. Tara: [37:27] Upset. How many stopovers do you have? Two. I'll take it down. Thank you. This episode is credited to ex-Simpsons writer Jake Hogan, who is Jewish. I don't know much else about him, but presumably over his career, he's worked on a few other Christmas TV episodes, despite it presumably not having been part of his tradition. This setup is a very smart way of poking a little fun at Christmas's cultural dominance. Number three, its hijinks are both gentle and well-intended. So we have our game, keep Helen, from figuring out the cranes aren't Jewish. Some commenters have noted that they could have kept the wreath up and said it's for Daphne, but A, shut up, nerds, and B, Jake Hogan had some jokes about his community, and he wanted to tell them, both from the perspective of characters who are in the tribe and from ones who aren't. For example, when Martin comes back out of his room after sulking that Frasier doesn't want to put up his vintage Rudolph. Clip four. Hey, Frasier, you know, since it's the night before— Cut! Oh. Tara: [38:41] If you can go help Dad in the kitchen? Well, all right, but he'll probably just kvetch at me, and frankly, I don't need the tsuras. Yes! Frasier mouths half that. I don't know how to be Jewish. Just answer questions with a question. Like what? What, an example? What, I should give you an example? You're gonna help me or not? You're saying I'm not being helpful? Oh, forget it! Martin turns out to be a natural, clip five. So, Marty, both your sons are doctors. How'd you work that out? Do I? Seems like they're pulling it off. Despite Helen's interest in the ham, Frasier is roasting and passing off as a brisket. A little chatter about Niles filling in for one of the stars of Daphne's show. And the surprise arrival of Frasier's Christmas tree delivery. On the last of these, Martin runs interference, getting the guy to stick it in the powder room. While everyone is out of the living room, Niles returns in full adult Jesus drag, presumably for the Jesus Christ Superstar medley. Just as Frasier returns from giving the Moskowitzes the apartment tour, Niles pops out of the kitchen and clip six. Jesus! Tara: [39:58] I left the laugh long on that clip. It's not even as long as it is in the episode. So the listener can hear the audience reaction both to the exclamation and to David Hyde Pierce's panicked dart back into the kitchen, which is gorgeous. Niles is back because he is mid-allergy attack from the manger hay on the set. Martin does what he can to distract Helen, but Niles doesn't have time to escape and ducks into the powder room since Helen and Faye are about to leave for the airport. But then, clip seven. You know, maybe I should go to the powder room before we go. Oh, yeah, allow me. She sees the tree and Niles with an inhaler up his nose. What is going on? Tara: [40:49] I'll let you all sort this out. I really have to go. I understand this is your busy time. Helen says she's embarrassed that Faye made her out to be so unreasonable. Faye can date anyone she wants, she claims. Faye does not believe her, and the fight gets intensely emotional almost immediately. Clip 8. oh here it comes the guilt just because i don't want you controlling my whole life what do you. Tara: [41:39] Just... Sit. We're nearly done. If Faye hadn't believed that she and Helen would only be there for a few minutes, she probably never would have gone to these lengths to keep up the scheme. Clearly, she and Helen are great at handling conflict. But as crazy Frasier capers go, and the last one I pitched for the canon involved marital infidelity, an imaginary child conceived out of wedlock, and aggressive accusations of infertility, this one is born from kindness. The show doesn't want anyone to have a bad Christmas, including people who don't actually celebrate it, like Helen and Faye. It's nice. And number four, it gets in a parting shot at Wasps. After the Moskowitzes have departed, Frazier and Martin marvel at what they just witnessed and how quickly a tiny thing can get blown out of proportion if you don't deal with it. Sure enough, exactly that then happens as a dispute about Frazier's Christmas decorating style compared to Martin's rapidly escalates. Clip nine. God, I do everything I can to make you feel welcome in this house, but nothing I ever do is good enough. A strange way of. Tara: [42:57] And I'm just a burden to you, and I hate living here. I hate you living here. Oh. Oh, my God. Oh, jeez. Oh, God, I feel terrible. So do I. Okay, we're hugging by now. Sarah: [43:14] We never should have tried this. We're not Jewish. Tara: [43:17] No. Jake Hogan is right both that Gentiles tend to be conflict avoidant to a self-destructive degree and also that attempting to undo decades of emotional conditioning after watching one savage fight is not going to work. Martin and Frasier do eventually hug, but one gets a sense it could be years before they try that again. Merry Christmas, Mrs. Moskowitz has it all. Interfaith mischief, a vintage blow-mold Rudolph, adulterated wine, and Jesus! Deny it if you dare, but know that if you do, you're probably risking a lifetime ban from Le Cigar Volant. Dave: [43:53] Thank you, Tara. Sarah, start us off. Sarah: [43:55] This was fantastic to revisit. I think that it does a lot of the things that in the midst of my own Frasier rewatch, I have identified as setting the show apart from other shows that are like it. The first thing is, when I was settling down to watch this again, I was like, I don't know if this is going to be canon worthy because I had forgotten about the Niles Jesus. If there isn't at least a couple of little bits of Niles physical comedy in an episode, it can't go in the canon. Well, you could check that box. Just the body language when he's standing there with the little nasal spritzer of his nose. His zigzag and nothing can reduce my husband to like near wedding himself spasms of laughter than Niall's physical comedy moments. And this one, like we had to pause it when we were watching it last month. There's the fact that it tends to like, it takes a sit, a very sort of sitcom-y premise like this, but then there's always another act. Like either it goes where you think it's going to go and then goes two steps further, or it goes where you think it's going to go, but then you don't have to sit through all the fucking wrap up and you just get the little kicker with Eddie doing whatever it is he's doing. Sarah: [45:12] And this is a good example of that, that you have the fight between Faye and her mom, which like resolves itself and off they go, which is a little unusual for a sitcom. And then you have the parallel fight and all of the way, all of the callbacks that they fit into that fight, which is just like a bonus and sort of not expected like they get you they get you where you think you're gonna go but via often an unexpected route and not exactly the time that you expect to arrive there and the third thing is john mahoney was a fucking treasure and every time he has a big showcase scene like this he's like they were hugging by now like there is something really appealing like given that this character, we were told on Cheers, was dead. They never really addressed that to my satisfaction, and that they all still kind of know each other, and that he had these two sons. But John Mahoney finds a way to sell it and have this heart of a character who could really be 1.5 dimensions, but manages to be... I mean, I think he's kind of foxy also, but the way that he will get into these big set pieces when he's given a chance, I mean, he was just the best, and we miss him. Sarah: [46:32] Yeah, this is a pleasure to revisit because, and having just presented a Frasier for the canon pretty recently on the show, it's like, the things the show does well, you almost can't quite articulate. it's like greater than the sum of the parts. And the episodes that exemplify that, I think, exemplify that. So this was truly a pleasure. And I'm so glad that you shouted out that setup with the sweater at the beginning, because that's absolutely designed to appeal to T-Bone and Budsies. It's none of our business, but shopping style and of enabling others and each other. So yeah this is a great one and i really enjoyed it and we never should have tried this brilliant delivery but i'm glad we're trying this dave yeah. Dave: [47:19] That scene we never should have tried this with uh Marty and Frasier are crying. Marty does it so much better as well. Like, Kelsey Grammer is no slouch in the acting department. He's really good as Frasier, but Marty is so much more believable in that moment. Yeah. His tears, how upset he is, seems the exact comedy right. Tara: [47:39] Yes. Dave: [47:40] And Kelsey Grammer seems to be doing some sort of fake crying. Tara: [47:43] Yeah. Dave: [47:44] Like, it doesn't feel real, so it's like, it was a little off there. Tara: [47:47] Yeah. Dave: [47:47] But yeah, John Mahoney is fantastic. Sarah: [47:49] Yeah, not as nuanced, I would agree. Dave: [47:51] Yeah, that's good. Tara: [47:52] The dry cries. He also directs this episode, Kelsey Grammer does, so that might be why he was, you know, he was pulling double duties. That may be why. Dave: [48:00] I like the note that this episode, everything here is born out of kindness. It's an articulation that I had in my head swimming around, but it couldn't articulate. And you're absolutely right, which makes this great family viewing and great holiday viewing. If you're around the TV and you don't want to talk to any, put on the TV, it'll do the talking for you. I guess the only other thing that I really just want to put an additional note on is just how much I enjoyed Mrs. Moskowitz right at the end of the Niles revelation where he is in the bathroom with the giant ornate Christmas tree with the nasal spray up his nose and just basically has to like get out of there. Says, you know, I have to go. I just like, everybody's waiting for me. Sarah: [48:41] I have to go. And she says, yes. Dave: [48:42] I understand. It's your busy time of year. Sarah: [48:44] So dry. Dave: [48:45] It's such a good line. It's such a good Cafford and just getting him out of the picture in such a magnificently comedic way that I just sat back and admired that moment. And Jesus is also absolutely fantastic. So good. And the other like stupid little jokes that are just there is dressing literally where Niles opens up what smells good oh it's ham when you know they're all talking about ways not to be Jewish and he's like mmm that smells good and I was like okay really great episode great holiday episode and certainly a candidate for holiday viewing this holiday All right, let's put this to the official vote, Sarah D. Bunting. What say you, canon-worthy or not? Sarah: [49:29] You're asking me if it's canon-worthy? Yes, please. Tara: [49:32] Me too. Dave: [49:37] So that means, Frasier and I, I don't know, I'm Frasier. Season 6, episode 10, Merry Christmas, Mrs. Moskowitz. You are hereby inducted into the Extra Hot Grey Cannon. Dave: [49:51] And that is it for this episode of extra hot great we spread the holiday cheer with canon pitches from the twilight zones what you need oh a no knack from veronica marce's one angry veronica and fraser's merry christmas mrs moscowicz next up we travel back in time time time to 1984 to discuss what products TV wanted us to buy on Extra, Extra Hot Grid. Remember. We're listening. I am David T. Cole. And on behalf of Tara Arianna. Tara: [50:27] L'chaim. Dave: [50:28] And Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah: [50:30] That was an escape call, wasn't it? Dave: [50:33] Thanks for listening. And we'll see you next time right here on Extra Hot Great.