Bull Riding Through The Streets Of San Francisco

Dave: [0:11] This is the Extra Extra Hawk Raid Podcast, episode 333 for the January 4th, 2025 weekend. I am plane stopper David T. Cole, and I'm here with rodeo clown, Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah: [0:30] Bottoms up. Dave: [0:31] And homespun vigilante, Tara Arellano. Tara: [0:34] Bo is one of ours. We'll handle it. Sarah: [0:36] We'll see you next time. Welcome to another episode of Extra Extra Hot Great, the first one of the year. We're so glad that you are here with us or back with us. New listeners, welcome. Old listeners, welcome back. and welcome to Sam Elliott's Butt. Today we're doing a foresitting pick. In case you didn't know, if you are part of the Patreon, part of the Discord, you get to suggest things that we have to watch and talk about. And I was thrilled to select this topic brought to us from Heather, Streets of San Francisco Season 2, Episode 21, The Hard Breed. As Heather explains, it's for Sarah. Sam Elliott is like 29 years old in it. So sexy. I've been watching the series on DVD and it's fun to see all the old actors. I agree. Before I get into talking about the plot, talking about the performances, talking about how unfortunately the print we saw wasn't crystal clear as far as Sam Elliott is concerned, let us, shall we, do the Chen check-in should our listeners watch the hard breed tara um sure dave. Sarah: [2:04] I mean, true. Look, it's a mid-70s procedural, which means it's 50-50 minutes. It aired February 21st, 1974. It was co-written by a couple of Gunsmoke writers for a, quote, modern-day Western set at a rodeo, or as Carl Malden is calling it a rodeo. Tara: [2:25] Yeah, multiple times. Sarah: [2:27] Yes! It's the only way he says it. Dave: [2:29] I wasn't sure in the intro if I was supposed to say Rodeo Clown or Rodeo Clown, but I figured you would have corrected me if I got it wrong. Sarah: [2:35] Either way, I've spent enough time thinking about Beverly Hills 90210 that Rodeo Clown would be perfectly acceptable. So it was also directed by Virgil W. Vogel, a 20th century journeyman TV director who also edited 1950s classic A Touch of Evil. Okay, as long as everyone's working. This is off-label Elliot, I would say. Clean upper lip, unwhiskied voice, ungrayed hair, but I'm still not mad at seeing him in tight jeans and or chaps, and he can really wear a cowboy hat. Dave: [3:09] Without a mustache, though, I don't know. It was like some Uncanny Valley stuff for me. I really couldn't think of him as Sam Elliot. It was a little disconcerting, to be honest. Tara: [3:19] I think the only other thing I've ever seen him clean-shaven in is Justified, the final season. Sarah: [3:23] Yeah, I was just going to say. Tara: [3:24] Place that guy. Sarah: [3:25] Kermit? Tara: [3:26] Is this character named Kermit? Am I remembering that right? I think it is. Dave: [3:29] Awesome. Sarah: [3:30] I think it might have been. We just called him Sam Elliott on our couch. Of course. Tara: [3:34] But they, I mean, Sarah mentioned the print that we watched. I think it was also like very slightly specific. fed up as well because a lot of the voices are quite high. So I think his voice is not as like raspy and worn in as it would get circa Star is Born. Dave: [3:50] All that sarsaparilla. Tara: [3:51] Right. But it's also like, I think it's also artificially high. And that was, that was upsetting to me as well. It's like, this is not the Sam Elliott I know and love. Dave: [4:00] When your only option is daily motion to watch a little TV show, you're going to get backwards visuals and this and that. Why is there a frame of a TV? Why am I watching a tv show inside of a tv on daily motion because daily motion where the pirates come home at. Tara: [4:16] Least this one. Sarah: [4:17] Wasn't flipped and we got to see china. Tara: [4:19] Man the bar name yeah the correct uh orientation. Sarah: [4:24] But anyway boy back. Tara: [4:25] To you sarah. Sarah: [4:26] All right yeah let's uh let's get into it this is actually a pretty straight ahead 70s murder procedural plot there's just more hooves on screen than you usually get. We open with Michael Douglas' Steve Keller half-watching the Rodeo on ABC's Wide World of Sports. His lady friend Moe, Phyllis Davis, is transfixed. Apparently, her grandma had a ranch when she was growing up. She spent a lot of time there. But Michael Douglas is afraid that they're going to miss their dinner reservation. Not that they'll have much appetite after they see the guy we heard in the intro, who we also just saw swigging booze in the shoot, sliding under the bull and getting trampled to death while a rodeo clown, Marty, Noah Beery, squints knowingly and kinda doesn't do fuck all. It wasn't necessarily a bronking while intoxicated situation, though, as one of Clint's ropes suggests when Marty presents it to Clint's father, Roy, played by Jim Davis, a.k.a. Jock Ewing on Dallas. Let's hear a clip, too. It's been cut clean nearly halfway. Hey, that's right, with a razor-sharp knife or something. Sarah: [5:53] Well, if the horns say so. Carl Malden then interrupts Michael Douglas' dinner date to bring him to the crime scene, where Roy is all, blah, blah, blah, city slicker police better find the man who murdered my country boy, blah, blah, blah, fish cakes. And Malden's like, settle down, we'll find him. After Marty pretends to be reluctant to mention that Clint's wife, Rosie. Sarah: [6:18] Lane Bradbury, used to be Clint's brother's girl before they got married, suspicion shifts formally to said brother, Ken. That is our boy, Sam Elliott, who was also competing with Clint for top Rodeo honors. Clint, meanwhile, wasn't exactly in the running for husband of the year, as we hear in clip three. Sarah: [7:28] Well, what relationship did he have with those woodwinds? Because they seemed to think it was pretty funny when Roy backhanded his daughter-in-law across the face. I am not a fan. Tara: [7:38] Yeah. Sarah: [7:39] There's also the matter of Rosie being the beneficiary of Clint's $50,000 life insurance policy, but it's only minute 17 when all of those red flags start gathering, which Rosie basically points out to Carl Malden when he comes to question her. Meanwhile, Michael Douglas is bonding with Ken over the difficulties of living up to a father's legacy in clip four. Our man thinks the cowboy ought to travel with his stuff, live with him, get to know him. good. Other times it's like two bulls butting heads. Sarah: [8:42] Elsewhere, Marty the Rodeo Clown, sorry, Rodeo Clown, is pitching a drunk Rosie on investing in the ranch. He and the other Rodeo Clown, Bo, Harry Carey Jr., no, no relation, want to launch and on living there with them. Bo is like, Marty, you're crazy for this one. Also, I know what you did. And also, also, I'm going to tell Roy. Roy still thinks it was Ken. And when Bo also turns up dead, Roy thinks that that was Ken also and throws Ken a beating and then shuns him out loud with cameras around. Time for Marty to, quote, reluctantly find even more evidence pointing to Ken as a multiple murderer. Sarah: [9:24] Hmm. This leads to an airport runway chase, which actually for 1974 was not bad. And Ken continuing to deny everything while wearing very tight Wranglers, which also was not bad. But when Michael Douglas reviews the broadcast of the fatal ride from ABC's Wide World of Sports TM, he sees that Marty isn't really hustling and puts together Marty's various manipulations, including that he cut the rope after Clint's ride in order to frame Ken even more. Off everybody must go now to the Cow Palace to confront Marty, who is making one last plea to Rosie about ranch romance and making their one-night stand from months before into a lasting legacy. Rosie's like, ew, no. Litch activates the talking villain in Marty, and he explains the hows and whys of ensuring that Clint's post-injury boozing and pill-popping would get him and Ken out of Marty's way for Rosie's affections. and money. Then Marty spots the cavalry, and there's a foot chase through the paddocks this time. Actually pretty well edited, I thought, between close-ups of the named Talon and wider shots of the stunt people hurtling over gates, before Marty opts for suicide by cow. I am so sorry. Not sorry enough not to say it out loud, though. Don't get up, I'll fire myself. Sarah: [10:50] The epilogue gives us an argument over who is paying for a snack and a shot of Sam Elliott in Flapping Chaps. Once again, didn't hate it. Don't need to watch it again. I'm always surprised by Streets of San Francisco that like for 50 minutes, it actually goes along pretty well. What do you guys think? Tara: [11:09] What struck me most interesting this time, and admittedly, this is the second episode I've watched in my life. After the one we watched with Mako. Sarah: [11:17] For this. Tara: [11:18] The series premiere, I believe. I like seeing San Francisco in this era when it was still a mixed, like, working class city. You sort of forget when you just see Cow Palace on a poster for, like, you know, a band playing there or whatever. Like, oh, it really was a palace for cows. Dave: [11:35] Before computers ruined everything. Tara: [11:37] Exactly! Before computers ruined everything. And like the opening credits are like a gorgeous symphony of B-roll of San Francisco in this era of like just the true diversity of different kinds of people doing different kinds of things that weren't all like wearing fucking fleece vests, riding their bird scooters to their dumb meeting that could have been an email. Sarah: [12:01] Yeah. Tara: [12:01] So I do enjoy that. Sarah: [12:03] Down to the Segway Palace. Tara: [12:04] Yeah. Down to the crypto.com arena. Anyway, yeah, I already expressed my feelings about Sam Elliott. I mean, I did think the twist of who actually did it was fun. The cut to Marty, Marty Jensen. The cut to him in his full Rodeo clown drag, like looking on tragically as the murder he engineered happens. It's just like, wow, this could be a painting in a very tacky Airbnb. Sarah: [12:37] At the Museum of Bad Art. Tara: [12:40] Yes. I mean, I was going to say it's so unintentionally funny, but I don't actually think it's totally unintentional. It's just, it's very good. And he is, as the episode goes on, like legitimately a creep that you want to see get his comeuppance for sure. Tara: [12:56] Both of the women in this episode are pretty. extremely annoying i'll say that and both of them have that like you know cupid all voice that was so common at the time like even grading on the curve of whoever ripped this like did it at the wrong speed or whatever both of them are a drag but the the milieu of the you know itinerant rodeo performer or competitor that life being the story is fun and it's something like i you know was not familiar with didn't know about thought all of the character relationships of the johnson family were like well drawn in a very short period of time to like make you care to see who did it so yeah it's too long and like it this wasn't the kind of thing that made me think like oh we should start this show from the beginning like right some other shows we've watched like again to go back to the mako example like when we watched that love joey is like this show slaps and it made me want And I mean, I bought the DVDs right after we watched it. So we still haven't gotten to them. We do have a month off coming up in our timeline as we're taping this. But yeah, obviously I get why Heather submitted it, even though this is not the canonical Sam Elliott I prefer. But you can tell he's going to go places, even at this early, early stage in his career. So that part of it was definitely an interesting time capsule. Dave: [14:19] What should have happened is right at the end of the episode, there's a shot of Sam Elliott and he's like holding something in. And he's like, and he like finally relaxes. And then his mustache fully forms. Yes. Sarah: [14:29] Like the, like the. Tara: [14:30] Uh, the Play-Doh fun factory where all the hair sprouts out. Just extrudes. Yeah. Dave: [14:35] Yeah. Sarah: [14:36] Chia lip. Dave: [14:37] Yeah, exactly. I thought this was a pretty big letdown from the pilot movie that we watched. I mean, that one was based on an actual mystery crime novel. So it already had sort of like good writing baked in or why would they bother adapting it? And that one was, I thought, also had more like fun things to see and watch, like the crazy stripper on top of the telephone pole in the red light district and just lots of weird things like that. It was also twice as long, so it had, you know, a lot more stuff, but also had like Satanists and shit in it. So there was a lot going on in that pilot movie that is a little off to the side here or just not seen at all. I will say I didn't realize that the Cow Palace was a real thing. I thought it was a nickname for something. But then like the actual name of the building is you go to the Cow Palace, which is great. Tara: [15:25] Yeah. Dave: [15:25] I mean, score one is for San Francisco, a place I don't really feel like I ever want to go back to. But Cow Palace is pretty fun. Tara: [15:31] Yeah, the comparable place in Regina, I'll hold for giggles, is the Agrodome. Dave: [15:36] The Agrodome. Tara: [15:37] That's also good, but not as good as Cow Palace. Sarah: [15:39] That's very good. Tara: [15:40] That's where they have agribition. Did I go as a schoolchild? Yes, I did. Sarah: [15:45] No, I'm with Dave that it's close enough to cow pie that you're like, oh, that has to be a euphemism for something. No. Dave: [15:53] Michael Douglas not really doing much here as opposed to also the Mako episode that we watched. Knowing that it was Gunsmoke people coming in to write the Western Tins Streets of San Francisco episode is kind of great and makes a lot of sense. Parts of it were interesting. I did like the twist that he set up the death of opportunity to turn into a murder investigation. I thought was, you know, a clever new thing that they added in there. But this was, I felt, a little flabby compared to the other one we watched, which was like a movie. so i would say unless you're really into sam elliott but and you can handle him not having a mustache then maybe watch the pilot instead of Dave: [16:33] this one well it is time for a little segment everybody everybody calls it this because that's what it's called it's ask e a, All right, let's get to your questions this week. No judgment. It's all crazy. Don't try to think about it. Don't try to figure it out. We can't. Pyra has our first question. What are your favorite coping mechanisms in this trying time? I don't know what she's referring to, Tara. Tara: [17:19] In in our timeline as we're taping this i talked to my parents last week and at the top of the conversation i sort of let them know like i don't want to talk about current events you know what happened and my mom was like why what happened i was like. Dave: [17:30] Seriously. She's really good. Sarah: [17:33] Carol, dang. Tara: [17:36] Anyway. Dave: [17:37] See what, says your mom, and you're like, you didn't give your mom credit. Tara: [17:41] That's true, but she meant it. Okay, first of all, you know, denial, dissociation, not talking about it, almost as unhealthy just being too busy and distracted by busyness. But I'll say, you know, as depressing as this is, it's probably not your job to be the first to know every single thing as it happens. And your ability to affect anything on a federal level is unfortunately negligible. But there are people doing work in your town or city or state who could use your money and time if you have it, and helping someone else will have the side benefit of getting you out of your own head. I went to DSA, our local chapter, had an organizing fair the Saturday after the election. I went and signed up for some stuff. Tara: [18:25] Dave, as I was heading out the door, was like, is this like going to the gym after New Year's? I was like, yes, kind of. It's not unlike that. I signed up to volunteer with a local group that distributes supplies to unhoused people. In our recording timeline, I've only signed up to do it. But by the time you hear this, I hope to have actually gone. I'm saying this on mic for accountability. And I'll also say just as general advice, you don't win a prize for being the most mad person on the internet or your social group or you know school drop off or whatever like there are a lot of ways for them air quotes to win and one of those is like making you drive yourself crazy when you could be doing things that make you happy instead or doing things that are beneficial to other people that will have the side benefit of making you feel good too so that's that's my advice sarah yeah. Sarah: [19:21] I absolutely agree i think you have to really cap like wherever you find yourself doom scrolling if it's your rss feed if it's your socials like set an alarm on your phone that feels reasonable drop that by two minutes. Tara: [19:36] And when the alarm goes. Sarah: [19:37] Off get up and do something else. Tara: [19:40] Read a. Sarah: [19:40] Physical book do a chore snuggle a pet. Tara: [19:44] Yeah anything i don't think the human brain was made to know all of this i'm not certainly not the first person to say this like you you don't it's not healthy to take in all of the you know i'll say it assault of just current events broadcasting so yeah give yourself a break that's good advice. Sarah: [20:01] And if one of those chores or tasks is to go to, I don't know if this still exists, but like volunteermatch.com, back in the day, you like fill out a little thing and they're like, here's five things that sound like they match up with your skills, which is how I wound up at Lighthouse, which was a, and still is a organization for the blind and sight impaired, just like cataloging their audio books. Is it the most exciting? No, it's actually really soothing to just do data entry, which is something that I can do really fast, just do one thing for someone else. And it actually makes a huge difference, not just to the someone else, but also that you actually feel like, okay, there is a thing that I can control and that's how I spend my time. Why not give some of it to someone else if you can spare it? So I definitely recommend trying to find opportunities near you. And also you can't, again, you can't fix everything by yourself in one day or at all. Give yourself a break. Do as I say, not as I do. It is very easy to just sit around reading Blue Sky and gnawing your cuticles. And if you're doing that, don't judge yourself. Sarah: [21:10] Here are some other things that I found soothing. History audiobooks that are about corruption being rooted out and punished promptly. And making shit with yarn while watching old sitcoms has been very soothing. And again, if you are someone who enjoys spending time with companion animals, seek out your pet. Snuggle it. It's going to be weirded out for a while because you're crying a lot. It'll get over it. Tara: [21:38] Yes. Sarah: [21:38] Because you give it food. Tara: [21:39] Pick it up, hold it tightly, say no, no, no, and they try to wriggle away from you. Sarah: [21:46] Yes. That's it. Dave: [21:48] I'm just going to do what I have been doing since I kind of lost faith in this whole thing years ago after January 6th and nothing happened, which is like, fuck it. I'm already over 50. I'm already I'm already well past the halfway mark. Just like I'm just going to have fun doing whatever I want to do, living my life. And, you know, you guys can figure it out. I tried to tell you and nobody nobody listened. I was the only one person ringing the alarm bell. Tara: [22:12] Guys. Yeah, Dave was the most angry person on the Internet. Look where it got him. Fucking nowhere. Dave: [22:17] Nowhere. Sarah: [22:18] Look, we're not all of us. Dave: [22:21] Yeah, I don't know. I mean, find a hobby, I guess. I mean, like, you're up against a system that is so now rigged against you, more so than it was in the first Trump term, that you're going to have to find ways to take your mind off it. I mean, it doesn't sound like the kind of solution anybody wants to hear, because you want to hear, like, what is the pull a grenade pin, throw it in there, everything blows up and it's back to normal. That's not going to happen anytime soon. Sarah: [22:47] And it's back to like 2012. Yeah. Nope, you're right. Dave: [22:50] You know, you're going to have to weather the storm and figure out what that means to you, how you're going to be able to do that without immersing yourself further into all the shit. Like, be informed, but don't make it your baseline information dribble. Like, you can't survive like that. And this is three years ago, me telling you this. Like, just forget about it because it's just like, you know, do some things for yourself now. Tara: [23:16] Yes. Okay. Well, just to not end on that note, you know, some of what you're what you are hoping to build, probably whether you put it in these words or not, is like community with other people who share your your beliefs and your values and that are trying to build the structures that if things truly do go super sideways will also benefit you because, you know, you may not be in the disabled community and the God forbid unhoused community or whatever. But you want the people that are helping that to have your resources if you have them to share. So look for people in your community that are trying to make things better because they're out there and they would love to hear from you. Sarah: [23:55] Now get! Dave: [23:59] Messy one. What's the strangest place you've ever run into somebody you know? I'll just preemptively say I've already answered this recently with that whole people, friends I met out in the Rockies in the middle of nowhere. So see whatever I talked about there. That's my answer. Tara: [24:13] Was that here or was that sassy? Dave: [24:15] I forget. Well, let's say it was here because I don't want to tell again. Tara: [24:18] Okay. Fair enough. Sarah: [24:21] Mine was actually on a family trip to San Francisco. We were in the line for the ferry to Alcatraz and we saw our pharmacist. Dave: [24:30] Huh. Tara: [24:30] Huh. Dave: [24:31] But like, he was going to jail? Sarah: [24:36] Yes. We were all going to jail. Dave: [24:38] You got a pill halfway in your mouth like, oh shit. Tara: [24:41] Yeah. Who gave that to you? Tell me his name. Dave: [24:46] Asperon. Tara: [24:50] We were on our way to a showing of the assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford and Lincoln Square. Dave: [24:57] And we met Robert Ford. Tara: [24:59] And Robert Ford was there. No, we ran into our friend Stephen Falk, who lived in L.A. at the time, and he was also going to the show. And it was, you know, slightly awkward because like, oh, you're in town and you didn't want to hang out. But he was in town like writing a script, I think. So he's taking a break to see a movie and we ended up all sitting together to watch it because that was in the days before assigned seating. I couldn't think of a better one than that. Dave: [25:24] That's pretty good. Michelle, what is your most out of character favorite show? So a show that people think, nah, not that one, surely. And you're like, yes, surely that one. I got to go with Downton Abbey. Tara: [25:36] Yeah. Dave: [25:36] It's a show I super duper love. I wish it could have gone on forever. And I think that they should pump out at least one movie a year. Tara: [25:45] Yeah. Dave: [25:45] But they're not. But I think that would be my answer. Tara: [25:49] This was hard for me because I'm, you know, I'm omnivorous about TV. I contain multitudes, of course. The two that I did think of, though, are Bake Off, which is kind of an out-of-character show for Dave as well. It's very wholesome. Dave: [26:02] Yeah, but I don't care if I miss Bake Off. Tara: [26:04] Oh, no, I know. But it's, you know, it's a, yes, it's, I wouldn't say it's one of your favorite shows it's not one of my favorite shows either but it's one that i enjoy and one that i like even though everyone i knew watched it and loved it like i didn't start watching it until very late. Dave: [26:16] Can somebody like punch paul hollywood. Tara: [26:18] And just like knock him out of. Dave: [26:20] This like elevation of the. Tara: [26:22] Handshake that's happening this season where he's like stupid like. Dave: [26:25] There's flavors of it now and there's like tears there's like you know those tear charts there's like. Tara: [26:30] Right the. Dave: [26:30] Hollywood the firm shake the. Tara: [26:32] Backhand shake the fake out oopsie doodle shake head pat shake like fuck off Yes, I agree. The handshake escalation is going to get to the point where it's like the boop. The fist bump. Dave: [26:46] Honestly, I think Prue. Prue? Tara: [26:49] Yeah, Prue. Dave: [26:49] She should just have every week something ridiculously new of that ilk. The armpit fart. I got an armpit fart from Prue? Yeah. Fantastic. They must really love these croissants. Tara: [27:03] Yeah, no, it's true. And the way they're listing it where it's like, last week you won the technical, you got Starbaker, and you got a handshake. It's like, one of those is not like the others. Shut up about it. I agree, Dave. Anyway, back to my answer of the question. Players, the Paramount Plus show that only went for one season, I don't know anything about eSports. We were partway through the first episode and I had to pause it and say to Dave, is this game that they're playing in the show? Is that a real game? It's League of Legends, so yes, it's very much a real game. But anyway, show from the creators of American Vandal, so we're always gonna at least sample it, but I was really shocked by how much I love it considering I don't know or care anything about the world that it's portraying. That was a very good show. Dave: [27:45] Sarah? Sarah: [27:46] I don't know what my co-hosts think, I would say, but I don't really have an answer for this. Like, it's probably a sitcom of some sort. Yes, Dave? Dave: [27:54] I was going to guess Space Show. Tara: [27:57] Yeah. Sarah: [27:57] Yeah, maybe. Dave: [27:59] That's for all mankind. Sarah: [28:00] Yeah. I mean, were you surprised, A, that I start, that we started it and liked it, and B, that we kept going with it even after it became a parody of itself? Tara: [28:09] I was, actually. Dave: [28:10] Yeah. Because that show is exactly that. It's a show that had high aspirations and then settled into it and it was kind of was like great in both modes and. Sarah: [28:21] I just. Dave: [28:21] Kind of didn't think the setting plus the tonal change would really sit with you and uh it did so that was surprising to me. Sarah: [28:31] Like sat on me and was farting the whole time but that's i don't know like for whatever reason like dan and i looked at each other we're like did this just turned to shit like audibly like there was like a little penny whistle sound that happened but yeah okay like i we really do look forward to space show and uh so i guess that's my answer like even the sitcoms that i thank you that is exactly what we heard while an air conditioner was rocketing up to an orbital craft yeah i mean anything that i think of as out of character for my liking it is not like that big of a favorite anyway so i didn't really have an answer for this one um thank you for reminding me of fucking goddamn ed and his dollar store spider web wig from last season show please kill this character thank you. Dave: [29:25] Okay let's just remind you the last season ended with smuggling was it koreans, North Koreans or just to Mars. Tara: [29:35] Yeah. Dave: [29:37] No explanation of how they got there or anything like that. And how like you got people on basically a container through space customs or whatever. It's so dumb. Tara: [29:48] They smuggled them the same way people smuggle weed, which is they got absolutely gigantic bottles of shampoo. They wrapped the people in plastic and then they shoved it in so that the drug sniffing dogs couldn't smell them. Dave: [30:00] Wow. I mean. Best show. Tara: [30:02] Mm-hmm. Dave: [30:03] And there's going to be a spinoff. I'm here for all of it, guys. Tara: [30:05] Oh, yeah. Sarah: [30:06] Mm-hmm. Dave: [30:07] Okay. Monty has our next question. For years, I've resisted watching NPR tiny desk concerts because the idea of someone playing a concert in an office where I'm trying to work is horrifying to me. What's the best thing you resisted experiencing for the dumbest reason? Tara: [30:21] Tara. I love movies. I love going to the movies. But I never even tried going to any film festival in the cities where I have lived that have had major ones, including Toronto, New York, or Austin. And the reason is getting tickets to them seems like a lot of hassle. And no thanks. Sarah. Sarah: [30:43] The only real problem with film festivals is all the other people who are trying to go to film festivals. Everyone's kind of bummed out. I don't have a great answer for this, but it did occur to me that I avoided PBS strenuously as an adult until I was like 28, because as a kid, it was 95% of my permitted television diet, and I just, capital C, could not with Channel 13 as a grown-up. And now, as an old lady, it is once again a large proportion of what I am, quote, allowed to watch. Not 95%, but I watch a lot of PBS, and I have few regrets. Dave: [31:22] It is time for the Ask, Ask EHG question that comes from Dr. Calhoun, he of the bad shoes, no watch question. Tara: [31:31] That was six weeks ago. Dave: [31:33] Yep. We remember. Sarah: [31:34] Seriously. Drop it, Dave. Dave: [31:36] I recently was amazed to see that Chicago Fire has been on for 13 seasons. What show are you shocked was on as long as it has been or was? That is your question. Go to the Ask Ask EASG channel, plop your answer in there. Judgment will come sometime in your future. Dave: [31:56] It is time for the Tiny Cannon. Presenting this week is Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah: [32:01] Hi, it's me. And today I am presenting to the Tiny Cannon a TV coinage pitch for America's Next Top Model, Season 13, Episode 3, Fortress of Fierceness. Smizing. We're not talking about that stupid title. What we're talking about is a certain TV coinage and whether it belongs in the tiny canon. America's Next Top Model always had a remarkable relationship with the English language. The show, by which I really mean its creator and head judge Tyra Banks, was always trying to make various fetches happen, whether it was nounifying verbs into terms that already existed, like calling various modeling instructions teaches when the word lessons was right there, refusing to call its seasons seasons and instead dubbing them cycles so they sounded like courses of antibiotics whatever the fuck was going on with pot leadum we'll link to in the show notes most of the time this shit actually worked too in that no such thing as negative attention way where you started out also saying it to make fun of it but you were nevertheless saying it and now you still say it and there is no better example of tyra and america's next top model getting a word or phrase to catch on in spite of itself than smizing. Sarah: [33:23] The show has to have referred to smizing prior to Cycle 13, Episode 3, but I'm pretty sure this is the solid-est origin story of the term, which means smiling with your eyes. Just to put this into context, this was the season with the shorter model contestants, and said contestants, having just suffered a surprise mid-episode elimination are now being berated, totally unconvincingly, by an alleged photographer challenging them to give him a perfect photo in a single frame. Enter Tyra in Superman-esque glasses and trench coat, and then she hulks out and rips off all of that stuff to reveal her alter ego, Super Smize. Sarah: [34:07] This is quintessential top model. Tyra, who has no discernible sense of humor or ear for it, doing a bit that the girls Stockholm syndromishly overpraise, as I regret to inform you that you will hear in clip one. Dave: [35:09] Out there. Super smize. Saves the day. Oh my god, my soul just left my body. Sarah: [35:16] I know. What follows this regrettable scene is a teach sigh on, you know, smiling with your eyes. And while this is, in fact, an extremely useful skill for models to have, the terminology is superfluous, the delivery is unbelievably cringe, and then it's as enduring is a cold sore somehow. And that's actually part of why it belongs in the tiny canon. It's goofy as hell, but it entered the show and audience vernacular almost immediately. It is still in occasional use, and it is utterly typical of the show's striving self-regard and yet irresistibility in spite of and because of how hard it is trying. I hope that this presentation powers Smizing into the tiny canon. While you two discuss, I'm going to go work on my booty tooch. And no, I did not forget about that. Tara: [36:14] Yeah, I tried to find evidence that Smizing had come up before this. Because when I saw this episode, it was from 2009. It was like, this surely is not the first time it's come up. Dave: [36:24] Did you use that Google thing where it's like the word search thing? Tara: [36:27] Historical word searching? No, no, but do that. But this is, I mean, you gotta, unfortunately, you do gotta sometimes hand it to her because this is one that is still in use when I was trying to find when it was first on the show. Like when she was on the Drew Barrymore show via Zoom, like during the pandemic, they had a whole thing where it's like how to smize when you have your mask on, which is like, okay, that actually is a good skill to have. Sarah: [36:55] Yes. I used it all the time during lockdown. Absolutely. Tara: [37:00] The way that she unveils it in this episode as Super Smize is extremely annoying, but even... All of that is like par for the course of what she used to do on this show. Like this was part of the gig that she was doing. And you also linked to Margaret Lyon's recap of it on Entertainment Weekly where she's like, he really is good at modeling. And she is like she's she's doing what the aspiring models can't like. This is actually a skill and you need to have it. And she's got it. And it might not be something you can teach in a teach. but this is still a word in our lexicon it's in the dictionary i mean she she fucking did it and not only that when she launched her own ice cream brand she called it smize and dream just like twice removed from the thing that you're trying to do a pun on but she's never stopped pushing it and i reluctantly respect it so this is this is a great coinage. A really important TV term, amazingly. So I love it. Dave. Dave: [38:09] So the site I was talking about is Books Ingram Viewer from Google. You type in a word and it tells you how it's appeared in publications over the years. So it gives you a historical usage. Sarah: [38:19] Oh, yeah. I've used that before. Dave: [38:21] There's a blip. You have to keep in mind the scale here, but there is a blip in 1820 for Smize logging in at 0.0000002% of uses of Smize, where they made a typo for the size of a brick wall in the clay crafter's manual. So Smize pops up in 1820 for that. And then that's it until sometime in the late aughts. Yeah. Tara: [38:52] Wow. Dave: [38:52] And then it pops up. So it looks like she did coin it. Tara: [38:56] Oh, I didn't doubt that she coined it. I just thought it had come up before Super Smize was a character on the show. Oh, I see. Dave: [39:02] Oh, okay. Tara: [39:02] Yeah. But that's remarkable that she held off this long until cycle 13 to bust it out on the show. Dave: [39:11] The Clay Crafter, edited by Chaz W. Something. The city of Oakland, California has been seriously considering a reduction in the minimum Smize of brick walls, making possible a reduction in the cost of office building without detriment to the type of structure. Tara: [39:27] Hilarious. Dave: [39:28] I mean, I hate it, but you can't deny that it is something that people latched on to then. I still hear it sometimes. Sarah: [39:38] Probably for me. Sorry. Dave: [39:40] And you know what it is. And everybody, once they heard it at some point in their life, tried to do it. You're like, smile with your eyes. What the fuck does that mean? And then you're like. Okay, that was great podcasting, but you know exactly what I was doing, didn't you people? Tara: [39:58] Yes, you did. Sarah: [40:00] Bells pulsizing. Tara: [40:02] Close. Dave: [40:03] So, yeah, I can't deny this TV coinage is fantastic. I mean, we may hate it, but we can't deny it. Tara: [40:10] Yep. Dave: [40:11] So, Tara Ariano, let's put this to the official vote. What say you, tiny candid TV coinage worthy or not? Tara: [40:18] Look, there's a moment in that episode of Streets of San Francisco that we talked about up top where Steve basically figures out the whole crime and they cut back to Mike watching him do it. And he is smizing to beat the fucking band. It's it's everywhere when you know where to look. So, yes, of course. Absolutely. Yes. Dave: [40:39] Me, too. So. America's Next Top Model Season 13, Episode 3, Fortress of Fierceness, my singer hereby inducted the tiny canon TV coinage canon. I really should write that down. I think I do a slightly different every time I do. Tara: [40:57] I think that's part of the charm. Dave: [40:58] Is it? Okay. Sarah: [40:59] Yeah. Tara: [41:00] It's fun. Dave: [41:09] We put aside not quite winners and losers of the week for the not quite top 11 list. I will go first. It is my not quite top 11 list of defunct TV networks I mostly have never heard of. First, we have defunct TV networks I absolutely have never heard of and do not fall into the next category, which is guess what the network did. So these ones were not playing along. I'm going to tell you about a few that I thought were notable. First and foremost, my favorite of the whole bunch is Play Cable. Play Cable was a channel totally dedicated to downloading and playing Intellivision video games through an adapter you plugged into your console that existed in the early 1980s. So it was basically like an internet channel just for Intellivision games. Tara: [41:57] Oh my God. Wow. Sarah: [41:58] The War Games channel. Dave: [42:00] Basically, did it blow your mind that they had that? Tara: [42:02] Yes. Dave: [42:02] For fucking Intellivision, the other one that nobody had, you're like, oh, did you get an Atari? No, we got something even better. Intellivision. Intellivision. Wait, come back. I want to trade games with you. You can. Nobody else has one. Everybody hates the baseball game for it. Sarah: [42:21] It's like having a Zune. Dave: [42:23] Basically, it was the Zune of the time. You're absolutely correct. And it actually was the same color as the brown Zune. Sarah: [42:28] So that too. So brown? Dave: [42:31] Well, the Intellivision didn't have a joystick. There was a disc that just like moved around on like an inverse top. It was terrible. Okay. Number two is the Jones Computer Network. This is sort of a precursor to like ZDNet and all those kind of things. I clipped a minute from it just to give you a little flavor. This is from 1995, the year after it debuted, were we ever so young? piranha of the Amazon. Stay tuned to New Media News to see what the Amazon Trail is all about. I'm not saying that there was not a lot of New Media News, but the segment after this was a full seven minutes on the not opening, but the sort of planning of the San Jose Computer Museum. Tara: [43:52] Wow. Sarah: [43:53] Wow. Dave: [43:53] Yeah. So that's Jones Computer Network. Number three is two channels. We got the boys channel and the girls channel from Fox Family. And it was just cartoons for boys and cartoons for girls. Tara: [44:05] Wow. Dave: [44:06] Yep. All right. Here comes the segment where I tell you the name of the defunct TV network and you try to guess what the programming gist was. Tara: [44:15] Okay. Dave: [44:15] Vroom. V-O-O-M. What was Vroom all about? Vroom. Not vroom. Tara: [44:23] Okay. Dave: [44:24] VOOM. Sarah: [44:25] I'm still going to guess automotive and racing. Tara: [44:28] Yeah, I don't have a better answer than that. Okay. Dave: [44:30] VOOM was dedicated to HD programming because there existed a time in TV's life where you really couldn't get HD programming. So it was like all those things you think of like eagles over mountains and all that kind of shit. Tara: [44:43] Yes, right. Dave: [44:44] The DVD sizzle reel at the good guy's store. Tara: [44:48] Yes, exactly. At Circuit City. Dave: [44:51] Grit. Grit. Um. Tara: [44:54] Like DIY home home stuff Grit Camping. Dave: [45:00] Closer Westerns Okay It was a westerns channel Oh. Tara: [45:04] That's good Uh huh. Dave: [45:05] Next one is decades What was decades Like classic TV Kind of Okay I'll give you a half point for that Okay, But it's think back to remember when we were going around L.A. pitching people on the television without pity TV idea. Tara: [45:22] Yeah. Dave: [45:23] And we went to that one guy who had the really great office. He's like, I don't really care about what you're doing, but I here's what I am trying to make you think about. Tara: [45:32] OK, so with all that in mind, Sarah, what's your guess? Sarah: [45:35] I forget now. Now I'm concentrating on remembering this meeting. but I would say yeah I would say I don't know library arts which will be wrong. Dave: [45:46] Library arts well you're kind of close actually you know what technically I'm going to give it to you because this is what it was remember we went to that meeting and there was a guy and he's like I have this media library, from long ago that's all like shit we own and we can do nothing with because nobody gives a shit about it yeah can you make a show out of that basically using clips from all this old shit we have yeah okay I vaguely remember that's why I'm giving Sarah of the point. Decades is a dump just for CBS TV distribution. That company. So it was like all those kind of shows and then like Dick Cavett reruns and stuff like that because they own that. So it basically was here is our IP library as a network. Tara: [46:28] Yeah. Dave: [46:28] Okay. Tara: [46:29] Sure. Dave: [46:30] Charge! Exclamation point. Sarah: [46:33] Cop shows. Dave: [46:35] Half point. It's part of it. Tara: [46:38] Like action movies? Dave: [46:39] Yeah, action and adventure movies and TV shows. Sarah: [46:42] Oh, okay. Dave: [46:43] All right, here's the easy one. Reven, R-E-V apostrophe N. Reven. Tara: [46:48] Home shopping? Dave: [46:49] What? automotive and racing yeah oh. Tara: [46:54] Reven okay I was thinking revenue what an idiot. Dave: [46:58] These are two different networks but they're both doing the same thing Quest and Defy Quest and Defy Space not space military nope Quest and Defy are basically the post entertainment and arts A&E programming like Axemen UFO Hunters oh okay Stuff like that. Why are they called Quest and Defy? I don't know. Tara: [47:23] Sure. Defying nature, probably. Dave: [47:26] Yeah, defying good taste. Sarah: [47:28] Defying interest. Dave: [47:30] And that's it. And I'm just going to put in there so nobody says you forgot about Dumont Network. So, because that's just fun to say. Tara: [47:36] Shout out to Dan Rogge. That's one of his favorite jokes. Dave: [47:39] All right. And that is my not quite top 11 defunct TV networks. Tara: [47:43] Sarah D. Dave: [47:43] Bunding. Sarah: [47:45] Significant TV snows. In no particular order. number one the contrived southern california snowfall in buffy the vampire slayer episode amends we have talked about that for the nonac we will link that in the show notes number two john snow of game of thrones number three phoebe gets married during a blizzard on friends number four everyone wearing enviably comfy looking and properly broken in snow boots everywhere on Northern Exposure, a detail I always notice. Number five, the snow that killed Jackie on Yellow Jackets. Number six, the snow at Jonathan Kent's funeral on Smallville. Number seven, the snow that fell upon Matthew as he proposed to Lady Mary on David T. Cole's absolute favorite show of all time, Downton Abbey. Number eight, Snow White on Once Upon a Time. Number nine, The show Snowfall on FX, underrated. And number 10, our very old friend, TV Static. Tara: [48:50] HB Snow. Dave: [48:54] Excellent. Good list. Tara? Tara: [48:56] We are now in the year 2025. So I went to the syndicated action show Cleopatra 2525, starring Dave's favorite actress, who is not in Downton Abbey, Gina Torres. I went to the list. I was hoping to come up with initially a funny episode titles, but it only lasted one season, so instead I'm doing the not quite top 11 Cleopatra 25, 25 character names, counting down from 10 to one. Dave: [49:25] Okay. Tara: [49:25] Number 10, old crone, as opposed to young crone. Dave: [49:30] I guess. Sarah: [49:30] No chance you. Tara: [49:34] Close, close. Number nine, Sluggo. Number eight, Blade. Number seven, Sarge. Sarge, what's funny about that? She's a lady. How about that? Number six, Ek. This character was played by Patrick Wilson. Not the one you're thinking of. A different one. Dave: [49:54] Can I get a spelling on that? Tara: [49:55] E-K. Dave: [49:56] E-K, Ek. Tara: [49:57] Ek. Dave: [49:57] Okay. Tara: [49:58] Number six, Ek. Number five, Zev. You thought I was going to say Ek and Sever as in that movie, but I'm not. Zev is X-E-V before Dave asks. Number four, Dwork. Number three. Dave: [50:11] Wait, Dwork? Tara: [50:12] Yeah. That's great. Like Dworkin. Dave: [50:14] Yeah. Sarah: [50:15] Andrea. Tara: [50:16] Just half of it. Dave: [50:16] Yeah. Sarah: [50:17] Andrea. Tara: [50:18] Number three, Drak. Not the one from Guardians of the Galaxy. Oh, that's Drax. This is just Drak, singular. Dave: [50:26] This is a cool nonchalant media mogul. Tara: [50:28] That's right. Numbers two, Bester Venets with a Z. And our number one Cleopatra 2525 character name, Gerbo. Dave: [50:42] Gerbo. I love Gerbo. Tara: [50:43] Gerbo's my favorite. I think we need to work that into the lexicon. You're being a real Gerbo right now. Dave: [50:50] I think Gerbo is the mascot from now on of the not quite top 11 list. Tara: [50:53] Great. Dave: [50:54] You gotta get a clip from Gerbo. Tara: [50:55] Okay. Dave: [50:55] Okay. Sarah: [50:56] The Gerb. Tara: [51:04] Welcome in, grandpas. We're sad for all the content you missed. You will never know who is the number one character on Cleopatra 2525. Unless you kick up that pledge, you miss a lot of other stuff, too. Dave: [51:18] No, it was just that. We talked about that character for 50 minutes. Tara: [51:22] It was kind of great. We did. Don't you want to find out why? Why? ExtraHotGreat.com slash club to get all the part of the episode that you missed and all the archives. Dave: [51:32] All the gerbs. Tara: [51:33] All the gerbs. They're taking our gerbs, we said. Today's extra credit topic comes from me. We haven't done a recast this in a while, so we're doing that. And this year marks the 25th anniversary of the premiere of CSI, the original, the Las Vegas cast. Tara: [51:52] And so I wanted us to recast it for the present day. Obviously, I know there's been a sequel that, you know, has its own characters and whatever, but we don't care about that. What I'm doing, what we're all doing, is a recast of the roles that we know, Gil, Nick, Sarah, the rest, for a hypothetical remake that would happen in the present day. I asked my co-host to recast the first 10 characters who were in the most episodes from, according to IMDb. So basically, Nick to Warwick, if you're looking it up for some weird reason of your own. And then I also welcomed them to recast at least one other memorable character of their choice from lower down the list. I think, I suspect we may have all picked at least one of the same from that. So we're going to get to that as well. So why don't we just go down the list in the order on IMDb, you know, 111, 222, etc. Tara: [52:45] First on our list, he was in 335 episodes. Good Lord. We're starting with CSI, Nick Stokes. And as I always do, I went with actors who were the same age as the originals at the time the show started. So my pick for Nick Stokes is Josh Hutcherson. You saw him being a little scumbag in The Beekeeper. Wonderful movie about phone scammers getting what's coming to them. But you've also seen him, of course, in the Hunger Games movies. And when he came up as being the same age as George Eads was in the year 2000, I was like, I got to cast this little square head to replace that big square head. So that's what I went with. Good old Josh Hutcherson for Nick Stokes. Sarah. Sarah: [53:30] I don't have this small-c Catholic approach that Tara does. I operate on Vibes. Tara: [53:36] Sure. Sarah: [53:36] Given that he was in basically every episode, maybe sometimes twice, I went with somebody who I want to get that network money basically forever, and that is Chris Chalk of Perry Mason. And also he was on one episode of the most recent Feud. He is great. I want him to do well so that he can do whatever he wants. So that is my Georgie's, not Georgie's. Tara: [54:02] Nick Stokes. Sarah: [54:03] That is my Nick Stokes. Dave? Dave: [54:05] I also am not doing it the same way Tara did, nor am I doing it the same way Sarah did, although it is vibes. It is vibes of cartoon characters from my youth. So in this remake, recasting, somehow it's also a cartoon. Tara: [54:20] Okay. Dave: [54:20] Let's just roll with it. Tara: [54:21] Sure, who cares? Dave: [54:22] CSI Nick Stokes, kind of a big guy, kind of a little dumb guy when it comes to CSIs. I think it's CSIs. Tara: [54:28] True. Dave: [54:29] I don't know. He seems like the most fratty, if nothing else, let's say. Tara: [54:33] Definitely. Dave: [54:34] And for that reason, I want to see Thundar of Thundar the Barbarian playing CSI Nick Stokes with his fabulous science sword. Swing, swing, swing, swing. Sarah: [54:45] Why not? Tara: [54:46] Fantastic. Next, he was in 329 episodes of CSI. Eric Zmanda was the original actor to play Greg Sanders. In my version, we're going with Griffin Gluck from American Vandal, not the main guy, the other one. He's the documentarian who's not Peter, what's his name. He has to play someone who's like a kind of a skinny weirdo people find annoying. And I feel like that's true of the Griffin Gluck American Vandal character for as much as we see of him, which is not very. Dave: [55:21] I mean, I think there's two qualities you have to capture or at least, you know, try to capture. One is he's annoying. Tara: [55:27] Yes. Dave: [55:28] Two is something to do with his hair. Tara: [55:29] I was going to say, the hair is definitely doing a lot of the work in that performance, for sure. And, you know, Griffin Gluck has hair. Let's see what he can do with it. Sarah. Dave: [55:38] Sarah. Sarah: [55:38] I mean, the hair is doing a lot of the annoying. Dave: [55:41] Yeah. Tara: [55:41] That's true, too. Dave: [55:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sarah: [55:43] The last time we spoke about CSI at any length, there was some sort of like haystack-y, chunky highlights thing happening. There was an absolute miscarriage. Dave: [55:51] His frosted tips have frosted tips. Sarah: [55:54] Mm-hmm. They did. Tara: [55:56] Yep. Sarah: [55:56] And each hair had five ends because that's just too much processing. Tara: [56:01] For sure. Sarah: [56:01] I deleted all the spindly and annoying baggage from this and cast Johnny Ray Diaz from Primo. Tara: [56:08] Hmm. Sarah: [56:08] It's Greg Sanders, because I just felt like we needed a dumber, hotter, taller, better hair vibe. Dave: [56:16] Which book is that? Sarah: [56:17] Rolly is it? Dave: [56:18] Oh, Rolly. Okay. Tara: [56:19] The dumb one. Dave: [56:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Well, this is a little bit of a conceptual departure already, but three characters are going to be playing CSI Greg Sanders. They all are annoying. Well, they could go in a trench coat. It's not Vincent Adult Menil. That would be a pretty good pick. Tara: [56:37] Yep. Dave: [56:37] I'm going with, because they're annoying. Huey, Louie, and Dewey from DuckTales are all playing Greg Sanders. Not like taking turns. All three of them are always Greg Sanders as a unit walking around. Sarah: [56:50] Yeah, that's going to be annoying. Dave: [56:51] Yep. Tara: [56:52] The most annoying part of that was that you called them Huey, Louie, and Dewey instead of the traditional Huey, Dewey, and Louie. Dave: [56:58] I know. Tara: [56:58] It felt like when you rub a cat the wrong way. Dave: [57:00] It's like the top 11 list theme. You want to say 12. Tara: [57:03] But it's not there. Yes, you do. Sarah: [57:06] Okay. Tara: [57:06] Next, he was in 327 episodes of CSI. Robert David Hall played Chief Emmy Al Robbins originally, but in my version, Al is going to keep that name, but is going to be Bridget Everett. Now you all know the great Bridget Everett from Somebody Somewhere. She's my pick for a radical departure from the original portrayal of the character. I think she would be great. I'd love to see her in a lab coat. Sarah. Sarah: [57:38] You will see his brother later in this list. There is kind of a reason that I picked the both of them. But for Emmy Hall, I am, excuse me, Emmy Robbins, I am going with Steve Harris of The Practice of Later Seasons of Justified. So that is my pick for that. Tara: [57:56] I love him. Sarah: [57:57] Dave, cartoon us. Dave: [57:59] Okay. For being old and weird, I'm going with the Dungeon Master from the TV show Dungeons and Dragons, the cartoon. Tara: [58:06] Okay. Dave: [58:06] Do you remember the Dungeon Mastery? Sort of like Yoda, if Yoda was a human, kind of. Short, wrinkly, wise, weird. I think that fits the bill for Al. Yeah, okay, sure. Tara: [58:20] Next, he was in 317 episodes of CSI. Paul Guilfoyle originally played Captain Jim Brass. And doing this research was when I found out that Paul Guilfoyle, when he started on CSI, was my age. And that put me in a bad mood for about 10 or 20 minutes. Sarah: [58:40] Oh, I don't care for that. Tara: [58:40] No, I didn't either. Sarah: [58:43] At all. Tara: [58:43] But now I know it. And I can't unknow it every time I watch that show from now on. But this is not about me. My pick for the new Jim Brass is J.R. Stan from Mad Men Ferguson. With or without the beard, I think he has the right sort of stocky, good cop who also has problems with his drug-using daughter. I think he could bring all shades of that character to beautiful life also. I just love J.R. Ferguson. I think we all do. Sarah. Sarah: [59:13] We do. He played Ponyboy in the TV version of The Outsiders. FYI. Tara: [59:17] Yep. Sarah: [59:17] Well, I had Joshua Jackson for this, but now I think I'm going to cast Tara. Jane Brass. Tara: [59:27] Yeah. Sarah: [59:28] Why not? Dave: [59:28] Sure. Tara: [59:29] I mean, could be Jamie. Could just be Jim. Sarah: [59:31] Who cares? What else are you even doing? It's fine. Dave. Dave: [59:37] All right. As voiced by Lorenzo Music in The Adventures of the Gummy Bears, it's Tummy Gummy. And I know there's a lot of gummies in the Gummy Bear show. So just to remind you, he is an overweight gummy bear cub and the eldest of the three siblings in the group. He is relaxed, easygoing, and harbors a great love of food, but has a remarkable, if mostly hidden, group of technical skills and good comprehension and often behaves impartially in disputes or acts as an arbitrator. So not all of that is like what cops do day to day, but some of it is. So let's go with Tummy Gummy, the big galoot from The Adventures of the Gummy Bears. Tara: [1:00:16] Fantastic. Next, she was in 297 episodes of the show and then came back for the sequel. Georgia Fox played CSI Saracidal originally, but in my version, this was the only one where I picked someone who I didn't think you guys would both automatically know who it was. Her name is Maya Mitchell, and I just put her picture in the chat. She was the lead of, not switched at birth, the other, the Fosters, the Freeform slash ABC family show. She's the same age as Georgia Fox. She has the same kind of look, very soulful. I'll say less annoying than Georgia Fox could be. I liked her a lot in that part, and I haven't really seen her since that and since I bailed on the sequel that they made to that show. But I think she could do it. Sarah. Sarah: [1:01:02] Mm-hmm. Tara: [1:01:03] Sarah Bunting. Sarah: [1:01:04] I thought it was Julia Garner, who was in the Dr. Death adaptation, the first one with Connie Britton. She played Anna Sorokin in the Inventing Anna miniseries. She's just always really good. And I didn't want to over-determine this with justified people. I may not have succeeded in the end. But yeah, I think that she would be a good Saracidal and not annoying. Tara: [1:01:31] Dave. Dave: [1:01:32] The left leg of Voltron. Tara: [1:01:37] Is that leg less or more annoying than Georgia Fox as Saracidal? Dave: [1:01:41] I was trying to go for something as annoying. Tara: [1:01:43] I see. Dave: [1:01:44] But as useful, generally speaking. Tara: [1:01:47] Sure. Dave: [1:01:47] So I settled on the left leg of Voltron. Tara: [1:01:50] I look forward to seeing that left leg in some low-rise flared corduroy pants, as was the style at the time. Sarah: [1:01:59] Cargo style, no less. Tara: [1:02:00] That too, yeah. Next, from 284 episodes of the original series, David Berman played assistant medical examiner David Phillips, but in my version, it's going to be Davey Phillips, and the character is going to be played by Laura Kariuki, last seen by me and Sarah from the episode of American Horror Stories that we talked about for Again With Again With This. Sarah: [1:02:26] Oh, yeah. Okay. Tara: [1:02:28] I loved her in that. I thought she was great. And I think she could be great here to backing up Bridget Everett as Al. I think the two of them would be a very funny combo. Sarah. Sarah: [1:02:40] This is where I have Wood Harris, because I think they would be a very funny combo. Both brothers doing the same thing. Tara: [1:02:48] Yep. Sarah: [1:02:48] Guy, an emergency backup guy. Originally, I had this as Mads and Lars Mikkelsen. And then I was like, yeah, it's like a little, it's a little too white in here. But I mean, if the Harris brothers are on vacay, then the Mickelsons can step in. And hopefully not take anything home to snack on. Tara: [1:03:08] Yeah. I mean, you said brothers and my first thought was the Londons, but you know, they're having a hard time. Sarah: [1:03:13] Oh, yeah. Well, no thanks. Tara: [1:03:17] Dave. Sarah: [1:03:17] Dave. Dave: [1:03:18] So this character is part of the team, but kind of only exists, you know, to be the subject of corrections and exposition. He's like really not a valuable member of the team, I'm going to say. So for that reason, he's going to be played by Aquaman. Tara: [1:03:33] Sure. Sarah: [1:03:34] Aww. Tara: [1:03:37] Next, from 264 episodes and the sequel show, Marga Helgenberger played CSI Catherine Willows originally. in my version the wonderful Ari Grainer last seen in the Menendez show but also just wonderful truly lights up every production she's ever in makes it better I think she would do that here as well Sarah well. Sarah: [1:04:04] Look they cancel Julia I'm still mad but B.B. Newerth I think would make a fantastic Catherine Willows they both used to be dancers Actually, B.B. Neuwirth is still a dancer. But yeah, that is my pick. I put B.B. Neuwirth in everything. Also, follow her on social media. She is very funny and generous. Dave? Dave: [1:04:24] I'm going to go with Scarlett from G.I. Joe. That's the one with the crossbow. Tara: [1:04:28] Sure. Red hair. Dave: [1:04:29] That's why she's called Scarlett. Catherine Willow is sort of a redhead. Tara: [1:04:33] Yeah, she's strawberry blonde. Dave: [1:04:34] Yeah. So I think that works. And she's supposed to be the most beautiful of the team. So that works as well. Tara: [1:04:40] Yeah. Dave: [1:04:40] I don't think Scarlett is a single mom, but perhaps we can arrange it. Tara: [1:04:44] Or not. I mean, leave the kid out of it. Who cares? Dave: [1:04:47] Yeah, there we go. Sarah: [1:04:48] Yeah, really. Tara: [1:04:49] Next, from truly more than I ever would have guessed, 245 episodes of CSI, Wallace Langham originated the character of David Hodges. Speaking of annoying, he was the even more annoying one. So annoying, someone tried to frame him for murder in the sequel show. But in my version, he's going to be played by Zach Fox, who is currently best known as Tyreek on Abbott Elementary. I just think that's the kind of he's a comic relief character a lot of the time and, you know, kind of a punching bag. And so is Tyreek. So I think Zach Fox would be great. Sarah. Sarah: [1:05:28] I like that. I went with Jeff Hiller from Somebody Somewhere because it's like similar energy, but I think less of a reply guy. Top note there. So yeah, that's that is my choice. There is a weird, like, alternate to, like, sliding doors situation where Wallace Langham was, like, a huge teen star, like, sort of followed the path of, like, a Timothy Hutton or a Sean Penn. Like, they were really trying to make that fetch happen. And then they put him in a couple of things as the lead, and it just did not, like, not because of him, but, like, the movie version of The Chocolate War. Tara: [1:06:10] Yeah. Sarah: [1:06:10] So, yeah, that's a, I don't know. that's like an interesting timeline to think about but i think he's just like he comes up to like my boob i think he's just not tall enough to be a leading man then again tom cruise what do i know don't at me dave. Dave: [1:06:26] Well, the choice has to be annoying, like truly annoying. So I went with Muttly from Wacky Races, the dog. Snidely Whiplash's dog. He's the one who goes. Sarah: [1:06:40] Oh, yeah, okay. Dave: [1:06:41] Because that's all he does. Sarah: [1:06:42] Yeah, that's a good choice. Tara: [1:06:44] Can you believe it took us this long to get to him from 193 episodes of CSI, Originally played by William Peterson, the unexpected super panty dropper of the Television Without Pity CSI forums, as I recall. He had a lot of fans and they were real vocal and real horny for him. All of that said, my pick to play Gil Grissom in this hypothetical remake is James Badgedale. I think he has a similar kind of like quiet intensity. You know who that is right from the time. Sarah: [1:07:16] What happened to that guy? Tara: [1:07:18] He was in that episode. Sarah: [1:07:19] I mean, I know what happened to that guy. Tara: [1:07:21] He's around. He was in that episode of Rami that I played a clip for in our timeline from Tube Tunes for Phil, where it was like whenever two people are, there's always a third. He was really funny in that episode as like a Muslim convert who's making a big splash at this convention. But yeah, he should have another show. While you're talking, I'll look up and see what we can expect to see him next. Sarah? Sarah: [1:07:45] I mean, he has a perfectly round head. And our recapper, Matthew, used to call him Charlie Brownhead. And was like, no, that is the actor's full name. I went with Michael B. Jordan. He would never do it, but I would absolutely watch it every week. And I think that he would have pretty scorch-o chemistry with a desk, honestly, but also with Julia Garner. So let's do it, Michael B. Tara: [1:08:12] Before we kick it to dave james badgedale is about to play a chief of detectives in a john wayne gacy show that is currently in production so look out for that at least he's not playing john wayne gacy i guess that's. Sarah: [1:08:26] Based on the documentary that a friend of mine produced that's. Tara: [1:08:29] Very exciting cool okay. Dave: [1:08:32] I went with Inspector Gadget, you know, because he has all the gadgets. Tara: [1:08:36] Sure. Dave: [1:08:37] Doesn't really cover the bug angle. Because originally I was thinking the actual Prey Mantis guy from Space Ghost Coast to Coast, which isn't really from my childhood, though. It's from my 20-hood. What's that character's name? I've already forgotten. Zorak? Tara: [1:08:51] Yeah. Sarah: [1:08:52] Zorak. Yeah, that sounds right. Dave: [1:08:53] Because, you know, he loved bugs so much he became one. But I think Inspector Gadget fills more of the boxes. So I'm going to go with Inspector Gadget for Gilgrissom. Tara: [1:09:04] Love that. And last on our list of cast members from 184 episodes of the original CSI, Gary Dorden played CSI Warwick Brown, kind of a fuckboy type, had a gambling problem, did a few slightly untoward things. For this one, I'm going with Taylor Zakhar Perez, who we saw last year in Red, White, and Royal Blue. He was the one who played the son of the president, played by Uma Thurman. This character also has to be the arguably hottest member of the team. I think that Taylor Zicar Perez fits that bill for sure. Sarah? Sarah: [1:09:46] I went more, when it came to casting Warwick, I went more with the vibe of like, there's 8% of Warwick that you understand and 92% that he'll be like, yeah it was outside of a you know illegal cockfight with my girl and you're like. Tara: [1:10:03] What? Sarah: [1:10:04] Why is it the show about whatever you're up to off shift? So for that energy, I think that you really needed Lakeith Stanfield, but he would be credited as Darius and would just be playing it. Tara: [1:10:16] I love that. Sarah: [1:10:17] That way, like his whole just like, he'll mention stuff. So you're like, what the hell are you talking about? But I kind of feel like that part of Warwick, he would map onto really well. Dave? Dave: [1:10:31] I went with Panthro from Thundercats. Tara: [1:10:34] Sure. Dave: [1:10:36] I think he's a player. He goes to the gym. He works out. Ladies love him. Panthro. Sarah: [1:10:41] I don't disagree. Tara: [1:10:42] All right. Then we had our wild cards, and I'll just say all of mine. If you also cast someone for any of these, just raise your hand, and I'll call on you. I just picked three. Lady Heather, of course, was one that I put in there. Dave, we'll go to you next. My Lady Heather is Camila Mendez. She played Veronica in Riverdale. I think she has the same sort of smoldering energy that the character needs, not to mention the, I was about to say the CW experience. And then I remembered, oh, right, the OC was on Fox. It just seemed like a CW show before the CW existed. Dave, who is your Lady Heather? Dave: [1:11:19] Well, she's not bad. She's just drawn that way. It's Jessica Rabbit. Sarah: [1:11:23] Oh, sure. Tara: [1:11:24] Okay. Next for Conrad Eckley, the two hands go up. This is the antagonist of the team. He's the functionary, the jerk who's always ruining everyone's lives. This, in my version, I've recasted. It's going to be Constance Eckley. And this jerk is going to be played by Lake Bell. I think that would be fun to see what she could bring as the office asshole. Dave: [1:11:52] Sarah. Sarah: [1:11:53] Ken Marino, baby. Tara: [1:11:55] Yeah. Sarah: [1:11:55] Ken Marino. Tara: [1:11:56] Yes, I love that. Dave: [1:11:58] Starscream from the Transformers. Tara: [1:12:00] Fantastic. Okay. And finally, Sam Braun, the casino owner, who we find out is actually Catherine's biological father. I went with Peter Herman, Mr. Mariska Hargitay. Yes. Hot Charles from Younger. Or you need someone who looks like he knocked up a showgirl back in the day. And he does to me. Sarah: [1:12:25] Yeah. Tara: [1:12:25] Dave. Dave: [1:12:26] Well, I didn't consider him. He was on my list. But as soon as you said, I remember the character. It's got to be Scrooge McDuck. Tara: [1:12:32] Okay, Sarah, who else did you recast? Sarah: [1:12:36] I only cast one more. That was Archie, the computer guy. And that's going to be Aaron Dominguez from Only Murders in the Buildings. Second season. Tara: [1:12:46] Yep. Sarah: [1:12:46] I believe. I need him to get more work. Whatever happened with his departure from the show kind of bummed me out. So I hope we see him again. Dave. Dave: [1:12:54] Synergy. Tara: [1:12:55] Nice. Dave: [1:12:59] And that is it for another episode of Extra, Extra Hot Great. Thanks to Heather. It was our first Streets of San Francisco Rodeo. We answered your burning ass EASG questions like, how are you coping with the universe as it is? And what's your favorite out of character TV show? Sarah smies her way into the TV coinage tiny canon. We celebrated those who weren't quite the best and worst of the week and wrapped it all up with a recasting of Original Ray's CSI. Next up, something great. Tara: [1:13:32] Remember, we're listening. Dave: [1:13:36] I am David T. Cole. And on behalf of Tara Ariano. Tara: [1:13:40] That was pretty as a pair of pink slippers. Dave: [1:13:42] And Sarah D. Bunting. Sarah: [1:13:44] They was loving, brothers. Dave: [1:13:45] Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time right here on Extra, Extra Hot Great. Sarah: [1:14:01] Blah, blah, blah, city slicker police better find the man who murdered my country boy, blah, blah, blah, fish cakes. Dave: [1:14:13] This is Extra Hot Great Minis. Today's topic Mark's TV forcening. Sarah: [1:14:21] Welcome back, everybody. For this week's minis, we will be doing a TV forcening. In case you're not familiar or missed the explanation previously, Each of us picks a show for the next person in line to watch, and so on down the line until each of us has been forsoned with a TV show. This can be a good forsoning or a bad forsoning. Dave: [1:14:40] It reveals a lot about our true nature. Sarah: [1:14:43] That's true. And our relationships. We'll get to that. Kicking off is Dave, who forsoned Mark with the following episode. Dave, talk a little bit about your choice. Dave: [1:14:55] Okay, for Mark, I chose the G.I. Joe 80s cartoon episode Cold Slither. And I won't get too much into the plot, but the reason I chose this was one, I thought maybe Mark hadn't been exposed to a lot of G.I. Joe cartoons in his youth. I never heard him mention it, so. Tara: [1:15:13] Mark is a little bit younger than we are. I mean, a lot younger. He's a baby. He's in high school. Dave: [1:15:17] So that was reason number one. I thought it might be new to him. And reason number two. Sarah: [1:15:20] My mother let me be on this podcast today. And she's regretting it now. Dave: [1:15:25] I also thought that Mark may enjoy this because it has a musical tie-in and Mark is very knowledgeable about music. So I thought he could lend his expert ear to this very special episode of G.I. Joe. Mark. Mark: [1:15:40] Well, Dave, I have to say it is very special indeed. I was born in the late 70s. So I actually did growing up in the 80s watch. Basically, all I did was watch TV. So I watched G.I. Joe, but it didn't stick in my mind as much as He-Man and the Transformers and Thundercats and Silverhawks. Dave: [1:16:00] Silverhawks. Yeah. Mark: [1:16:02] Silverhawks, it's a great show. But I was delighted actually to be forced to watch this. It did not feel like a forcing at all because I had forgotten how campy the G.I. Joe cartoon was. First of all, Cobra Commander sounds like Harvey Fierstein, which I had forgotten about, but was really delighted to discover. And so I had also forgotten how much, I mean, I'm just basing it off this episode, but I'm probably right that Cobra Commander is supposed to be the head of an international evil organization, but he is constantly thwarted by the most mundane crap in his attempt to do evil to the world. And this episode actually begins with him finding out that all of his henchmen have had to go on unemployment. So he can't have any, he doesn't have any money and he doesn't have any henchmen to help him get more money. Tara: [1:16:55] And so his decision- They show the henchmen lined up for unemployment still in their uniforms. Mark: [1:17:00] And they're with their helmets on. Which I would just like to say. Tara: [1:17:04] Considering that Cobra is an illegal organization, we may assume, It's weird that they would still be paying into E.I. for their employees. Dave: [1:17:13] And I said that's the after employment benefits. That's why they're called Cobras, because of this episode. Mark: [1:17:18] Right. Well, so then the Cobra Commander's brilliant idea to get some new followers and some new Skrilla is to start a heavy metal. But it's not even actually his idea. It's that guy with the silver head. Dave: [1:17:34] Destro. Mark: [1:17:35] Destro's idea and his like like butch i mean i'm sorry his femme lesbian sidekick natasha or whatever the baroness yeah the baroness i'm sorry no problem thank you i'm here i thought you said the harness i was like jesus they like kids watch this but they decided that the best way to get new followers and new money is to start a rock band and then fill the songs with subliminal messages Which. Tara: [1:18:02] By the way, is the same plot as the movie version of Josie and the Pussycats starring Rachel Lee Cook. Mark: [1:18:08] So, obviously, one of the things I like about this, too, is it's like how sometimes Law and Order will do episodes that are just code about how terrifying technology is. This was clearly an episode of G.I. Joe where it was like, parents are worried about subliminal messages in the rock songs. So Comra will use it. And then they, like, go through this long process of really campy shit to get this ready. There's a little person who only speaks in malapropisms who somehow funds the money. These crazy Australian people somehow become the band and then they shoot a music video. And this is suddenly one of the mundane things that Cobra Commander has to deal with on the day of the music video shoot. sir i just want to be loved is that so wrong it's a real he really does take over. Dave: [1:19:08] The world it's a. Mark: [1:19:10] Real lesson in. Tara: [1:19:11] Labor law for the kids. Mark: [1:19:12] Watching this whole episode because who isn't interested as a child if. Dave: [1:19:16] You love that little uh clip you're gonna love the star wars prequels. Mark: [1:19:19] So the thing that's obviously great is that the songs work they they not only did the messages just instantly control your mind, but they make everyone start walking around with their hands out in front of them like generic zombies. I don't know if that was embedded into the message that you had to start walking like a cliche, but it works. There's also this one random scene when all of these kids are in high school taking a test and they all get up because for some reason they all hear the song, but the big butch lesbian school teacher is not affected. I. Tara: [1:19:52] Was going to say that might be a trans woman who is not doing a very good. Mark: [1:19:56] Job with her makeup very manly looking but she's impervious so she just watched the children walk away and she's just like oh come back and finish your social studies, then of course then of course the song becomes a number one hit and all of the G.I. Joes who had dismantled they've of course overthrown Cobra now so they don't have anything to do except listen to their radio and this one soldier who's like watch you guys dance to the radio and he does this crazy like running man roger rabbit dance, like me it's gonna be more fun everybody oh my god that's when the g.i joes the three of them start to hear the song and then what's amazing is they all end up at this arena concert where destro says now that we've turned now we can turn off the submission song and turn on the world chaos song so apparently there's like different messages that they've got programmed but then when they finally start to hear the chaos song it's well just just listen to what happens and, Clip: [1:20:00]Totally awesome! Cosmic vibes! Wow! Okay, you guys are all under arrest. Wait a second. What's happening? We didn't do anything wrong. Save it for the court-martial. Hey, why don't we stay and listen to the music? It's totally awesome. Yeah, let's get mello. Mark: [1:21:53] What you just heard that was not any of us making it up that was the actual, program and first of all as dave pointed out when we were talking before we started to record this it's so brilliant that the music is like destroy everything but the response of the music is dude, let's get mellow and it's also clearly like 1985 and all of these people who don't know anything about how the kids talk now kind of just parody what they think kids talked like in 1975, and a bread show or something yeah exactly and it sounds like the background music of that driving game that i used to play on a texas instrument computer like, they also only wrote. Tara: [1:22:39] One song because they. Mark: [1:22:40] Only need one and cold slither is actually a pretty good name for this band and of course the song Colt Slither is sung by Colt Slither Amazing. Tara: [1:22:49] Like big countries in a big country. Mark: [1:22:52] Exactly right. Dave: [1:22:53] In the first time that the song is played while they're shooting the video, because they have to shoot the video first. Mark: [1:22:58] Right. Dave: [1:22:58] One of the lyrics actually mentions Cobra by name. So there's a song that's supposed to subliminally get people to obey Cobra, in which Cobra is mentioned by name. Tara: [1:23:09] Is liminally mentioned. Dave: [1:23:11] Like the song is overt. God, I love this episode. Mark: [1:23:16] Another thing that happens that I love is there's this whole subplot. I have to back up. I don't know if you have seen the Amy Schumer skit where she's a secret agent and they're like, it's her and three men. And the boss says to the three men, you're going to go use knives and ninja to go kill them. Amy Schumer, you're going to have sex with them until they die. And like all of the things that Amy Schumer as a secret agent is supposed to do is like give killer blowjobs. So basically that happens in this show with the three women who are in the G.I. Joe Force. They dress like groupies to get backstage and then kick everybody around. It's amazing. And then there's also this thing where Duke, the one character's name I actually remembered, by the way, he is such a square. And there's this whole running thing about he doesn't get it. So when he hears the name Cold Slither, he's like, Cold Slither? That sounds like some cobra problem. And the girls all go, no, Duke, Cold Slither is a rock band. Tara: [1:24:14] And he's all embarrassed. Mark: [1:24:16] You kids know more than me. Oh, my God. And it's like, and I cannot even explain to you that we've only scratched the surface of what's happening. And if you have a Netflix streaming account, go and watch Cold Slither. It's also only 18 minutes long. It's like, it's totally worth it. So thank you, Dave. Dave: [1:24:36] Oh, I'm glad that you enjoyed it. One thing I'd like to point out about this episode that I really enjoyed was at the end, after the concert is broken up, the G.I. Joe's feel really bad that the general public has come to this giant stadium. Tara: [1:24:52] They've been denied a full concert. Dave: [1:24:54] They're denied a full concert. So the Joes create their own impromptu rock band and start singing the theme to the actual G.I. Joes show, which seems to imply that they're actors in their own show. Like, it's getting into this Gary Shandling territory when that happens. Tara: [1:25:11] And the three girls sing back up like Grace on Will and Grace. Mark: [1:25:15] Like, And also, the three girls, they have to share one microphone. Meanwhile, all of the men get instruments and their own microphones, which I also just noticed. Dave: [1:25:30] Oh, Mark, I can't tell you how glad I am that you enjoyed this episode for what it was. Awesome. All right, everybody. That was Cold Slither. We'll be back tomorrow to hear about Tara's forstening. Tara: [1:25:42] Indeed.