Does Butterfly Take Wing?

Clip: [00:02] I'm in the private intelligence business. The only enemy I have is peace. Dave: [00:14] This is the Extra Hot Great, episode 368 for the August 16, 2025 weekend. I am the one person who did all this, David T. Cole, and I'm here with Extraction Minivan, Sarah D. Bunting, and Spy Mummy Tara Ariano. Sarah: [00:33] I don't think this is in the warranty. Tara: [00:37] Ugh, Oliver, I wish Rebecca was my child. Clip: [00:42] I can't believe I can't do it. Tara: [00:48] Welcome to Extra, Extra, hot, great for another weekend. Thank you so much for being here and for your support. We are talking about Butterfly, not the Crazy Town song, the Prime Video Series, in which in Soul, Rebecca Raina Hardesty deftly drops a device that instantly kills the Russian ambassador to South Korea as she is transforming her appearance to sneak out of the hotel where the assassination took place. David, Daniel Dickim, is upstairs neutralizing her guy in a chair. Dave: [01:20] I like Guy in the Chair better. Tara: [01:22] That's he's that's guy in a chair that's the Spider-Man reference. David then goes on to take out her ex-filtrations team, then takes the van himself to wait for her, and that's kind of all I can say without spoiling plot events in this show set in the cutthroat world of private intelligence. Shows based on Arash Amel's graphic novel series of the same name and adapted for TV by crime novelist Steph Cha and Ken Woodruff, whose credits include The Mentalist, Gotham, and La Brea. Remember La Brea? Dave: [01:50] Oh, yeah, you go into the Brea Pit and get to see all the dinosaurs. Tara: [01:51] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [01:52] Oh, God. Tara: [01:55] Yep. Dave: [01:55] Shares so much in common with Butterfly when you think about it. When you really think about it. Tara: [02:00] All six episodes dropped on Prime Video August 13th. We potentially may talk about events for any of them. I don't see that journey for us, but I guess we can find out. Let's do the Chen check-in. Sarah, should our listeners watch Butterfly? Sarah: [02:12] I mean, should is a little strong. Tara: [02:14] Mm-hmm. Dave: [02:15] Could Could they? Sarah: [02:16] I enjoyed what I watched. Tara: [02:18] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [02:19] Could. Yeah, it's I know. Dave: [02:20] What if the Chen check-in was always Could you watch this show? We could never answer anything, but you know, well, you could. Tara: [02:27] Yeah. Sarah: [02:28] Will you explode from watching it? Tara: [02:30] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [02:30] I mean, I liked it fine. Tara: [02:30] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sarah: [02:32] Am I going to continue? Tara: [02:33] Hmm. Sarah: [02:33] Probably not. Tara: [02:34] Dave. Dave: [02:35] Yeah, uh it falls under perfectly cromulant T V viewing, but not appointment viewing. Tara: [02:39] Mm-hmm. Yep. This is a show I would be all over 15 years ago, but there are better shows now, and this is only fine. Dave: [02:44] Yes. It has updated alias vibes, but it's not enough. Tara: [02:51] Yep. So now that we're in the spoiler zone, speaking of alias, the deal is Rebecca works for a private intelligence agency, which is called CADIS. David co-founded it with Juno, who is played by Piper Paribo. David faked his death nine years ago because bad guys were after him and his daughter Rebecca. So now that she is a highly skilled assassin for a company David believes has had its mission corrupted, he has come out of hiding to extract her from the company and bring her into a new life and identity. But Caddus is onto them, so they have to get through a bunch of action set pieces to stay ahead of their operatives. And in my opinion, this concept is the right size for a movie, not a show. What are your thoughts? Dave: [03:31] Yeah, it's definitely padded for sure as these things are because we're in spoiler zone now, so here comes some information. Daniel Day Kim's character is the father to Butterfly, not to be confused to the ballerina in the battle of the b sassins. Tara: [03:42] That's what I just said. Uh-huh. Yeah. Dave: [03:47] The b sassins. Tara: [03:48] Mm-hmm. Dave: [03:49] Wait, the bis bisons. And what was the original question? I've already forgot, trying to form my hilarious biz biz joke. Tara: [03:58] Should this have been a movie? Dave: [04:00] There's enough action along the way and enough little mini set pieces that keep you going. So even though it is padded, they know how to triple out parts you're here for. Sarah: [04:10] And it's not as padded as you might expect from Prime, like that it's only six episodes is A point in its favor, I would say. The fight sequences are like crunchy enough. The tradecraft is good enough. Some of the performances are not what you'd hope, but if Alias is like always your comp, you don't have a garber here. I'm not super loving the performance of Rebecca. There's parts of it I don't buy given the backstory. If you have low expectations, it's fine. Dave: [04:45] Yeah. And some of your low expectations is this might be sort of a low energy take on alias, then perhaps. Sarah: [04:52] Alias just didn't take itself too seriously all the time. And that's always the difference with these things. That it's like, you know, you have to have a little bit of. Wit, dark humor, absurdity, and then just go with it. But I feel like Daniel Day Kim is not the actor that you get if you want a wry take on anything. Dave: [05:10] Right. Sarah: [05:14] I like him, he's hot, I would, but you know. Tara: [05:16] Yeah, I think the emotional stuff between the father and daughter just is necessary, but there's so much of it. It's just like. Sarah: [05:22] Yeah. Tara: [05:23] Get on with it. If once you've committed to do this, you've got to do it and stop whining about it. Sarah: [05:24] Mhm. Dave: [05:27] And also, you know, it is a screenplay. So, although I'm sure in real life you would have these valleys and troughs as you figure out this new relationship that just got rekindled with your father, who you thought was dead for nine years. But seriously, the forward momentum backtracking on Rebecca's early relationship with her father, like it darts back and forth six times in one episode, you're like Just, you know, have that first moment of doubt after acceptance. And that's how you write a screenplay. You don't have to go binging, banging all over the place where you're like, okay, dad, let's do it. And then the next moment, you're throwing perfectly good chips on the floor of the 7-Eleven. Sarah: [06:03] Yeah, this is like what I used to say about Buffy Season Six and still do. It's not that it's not a credible depiction of Post-mortem depression, or black existential nihilist, who am I and why am I hereness It's that that's not good television for longer than a certain amount of time. And some shows don't understand the difference between this is realistic and this is compelling. In real life, would this person have this back and forth? Like, sometimes I'm fine with it, and other times I still want to kick his ass. Dave: [06:39] Yeah. Sarah: [06:39] Sure. This is an action show. Dave: [06:41] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [06:41] Dave is right. Inciting incident is done. Move on. Dave: [06:44] That first moment where she's in the hotel and she plants the poison cell phone and swaps it out with this real one. She's going around as a pregnant woman. She gets stabbed in the pregnant belly like you knew it was going to happen from Second one, you saw her. That part is very alias-esque. I thought that part was the part where it wasn't taking itself too seriously. There's these sort of like over-the-top elements. Felt very at home in alias. And then after that, the action is more stayed and sort of like, you know, we're going to fight it out in the train station, light parkouring, that sort of middle-of-the-road stuff. Like Tara, you said, I'm paraphrasing, Tara. We were watching last night. They're starting giving us another show in the middle of the road, like Bodyguard or Treason, you know, the ones that you watch and are fine, but you forget about as soon as you're done. The difference is now we live in a world with slow horses. Tara: [07:36] And I'm sure that the critical success of Slow Horses is going to spawn more knockoffs. and executives, or we're just beating the bushes for What's Another Spy series, where we can just adapt each book as its own season of a show. Sarah: [07:50] Or like Day of the Jackal. Like there's been a couple of three really good ones in the last two or three years, or like good enough to watch over the holidays. You know, you have to do better. You have to, like, the acting has to be better, and you also have to pick a lane. Like, are you an action show, or are you doing like spy motions? Dave: [08:11] Right. The only show to successfully navigate those waters was Phoobar. Tara: [08:17] RIP King, it's dead now. Yeah. Dave: [08:21] I do want to give this show some accolades, which is we finally got a female induction to the Talking Like This Club. Clip: [08:28] The only enemy I have is peace. Tara: [08:31] I actually think she's really good. I would have liked to see more of her. Like she, to me. Dave: [08:35] You're talking about Juno. Tara: [08:36] J that's Juno. That's the Piper Peribo character. Dave: [08:37] Yeah. Tara: [08:39] She's the most ruthless person in the show, but she is stuck in like being the situation room Suit lady giving orders that are removed. Dave: [08:41] Yeah. Tara: [08:48] Like, even when she gets face to face with a traitor, she gets someone else to kill him. Like, kill someone yourself. I know you're in a white suit. I didn't tell you to wear that. Get your hands dirty. Dave: [08:58] Look, she've advanced to management years ago. Years ago, she was hands-on, killing people, snapping necks, I'm sure. Tara: [09:02] Yeah, of course she's got to miss it. Sarah: [09:05] Mhm, dancing on a bar. Dave: [09:08] She's got to talk to investors. Tara: [09:08] Come on, yeah. Dave: [09:10] I'm sure she does some light killing on the weekend in her own time. Tara: [09:13] I mean, I'm sure the season is building to a showdown between her and David, and she gets killed probably, but you know, I'm not going to find out. Sarah: [09:20] I think this is good casting of her generally speaking, like, is this one of our most nuanced thespians? No. But I've said this about Ryan Phillippi, I've said this about Demi Moore. There are times when an actor's, shall we say, subtlety Meaning, they just don't give you much in the face. Sometimes it's Botux, sometimes they're just not that good. But sometimes a certain immobility serves the character, and you can kind of map on whatever You want to map on, and in this case, it's like: you know, what part of the conspiracy do you want to map on to her? Dave: [09:49] Yeah. Killing Eve. Sarah: [09:58] What part of her sort of gelled exterior? What role do you want that to play? Do I need to watch her in Shakespeare? No, but that's okay. We have street for that. It's fine. Tara: [10:10] What I do want to see her do is stuff like in the second episode when she goes out for lunch with the senator And she's actually convincing as like a character in a TV show who can lie well. Of course, she can. Sarah: [10:20] Mm-hmm. Tara: [10:21] That's her job A lot of times they're just tipping it so that you know, they know, you know, they're lying. Sarah: [10:22] Yeah. Tara: [10:27] And she's just being very quiet and letting him sort of come to her with what she needs him to say and also be grossed out by his LBJ stew. Sarah: [10:28] Yeah. Yeah. Dave: [10:36] Thank you for bringing it up. If you were just going to pass by that one without mentioning it in that scene. Tara: [10:39] Of course not. Dave: [10:40] So they're in a noodle house of some sort, and the senator knows about Johnson's stew, which is. Basically, what is the Italian version, Carbonara? Yeah, so it's basically the Carbonara of Korea, which is U. S. Army rations made into some sort of Korean dish, but it was like noodles and like hot dogs and beans and franks and stuff in it. Yeah. Tara: [11:04] And before she goes, she is just Been served like the most elegant, teeny, tiny piece of beef that she's about to cut into it. And then her assistant's like, The senator's here. And she's like, Fuck. So he serves it to her, and she has to look like she wants to puke. And it's very convincing. Sarah: [11:18] Yeah, enjoy your spam fa. Tara: [11:20] Exact, that's exactly the vibe for sure. But even with her, there are cliches. I mean, the line that Dave played for the opening, obviously, but another time she's like, this is the one mission I can't afford to have fail. Okay, the other ones you're just feeling whatever about. Like, I would assume that's all your missions. Sarah: [11:36] Civilians, fuck 'em, sure. Tara: [11:36] Duh. Dave: [11:38] The other trope is that she is hard as nails and she'll snap your neck, but she's got what weakness. The daughter. Tara: [11:45] Mm-hmm. Dave: [11:45] It was like it's got that sort of thing, too. Sometimes you just want a villain to be 100% full thermometer villain. Tara: [11:52] Yes. Dave: [11:52] And it's like, I don't care. I just, you know what I do all day long? Snapnecks. Tara: [11:56] Yeah, exactly. Dave: [11:56] That's my job. And I kind of wanted that out of her because I feel like where they were doing this emotional triangle between Rebecca, the father, and Juno, it's like, eh, just get to the punch and just get to the I have 12 knives on me scene. Tara: [12:07] Mhm. Dave: [12:11] You know, just let's get there. Tara: [12:11] Yeah. And don't ever strip to her bra in front of her like young adults. son who works for her. Like, we get that there's a psychosexual vibe here. Like it's not interesting. Also not interesting, finding out at the end of the second episode that David has another much younger daughter. So now she's gonna be in competition with Rebecca unknowingly. Like I don't care. Dave: [12:31] Yeah. I wanted him to point to the new daughter and go, I like her better, and then like, see what happens. Sarah: [12:32] God. Tara: [12:37] Yes. The show is fine. It fills the time, but also you can't even watch it really as background TV because. A third of it is in Korean, and you have to pay attention to the subtitles. So it's like, it's all right, it's not great. Dave: [12:47] That's how they get you. Yeah, it's a Saturday afternoon. Maybe I'll fall asleep. Maybe I won't on the couch as I watch their show. Sort of event, except you have to pay attention to it, which takes it out of contention for that. So I don't know where you're going to fit it in in your life. Tara: [13:02] I'm also going to say, if you haven't watched Slow Horses and you're thinking about watching this, I'll be mad at you. Clip: [13:09] We know it's that time again when we hear that mad refrain. Everybody, grab a mic, it's just like falling off a bike. Sarah, Tara, Dave, and yes, I think I want to ask a question. Random, pointless, or Or indeed it's ED. I got a thing I want to ask Ask Ask EHG Boy This is Ancient Earth's most foolish program. Dave: [13:40] All right, it is Ask EHG time. Sarah: [13:41] Yeah. Dave: [13:42] Before we get into your questions for us this week, we have to figure out last week's Ask Ask ESG where we turn the tables. Our judge this week will be real, wheel, weir, wheel, real wheel, Sarah It's weird that the wheel sound when you spin it seems to be muttering real world, real wheel. Tara: [13:58] It's real, real, real, real. Dave: [14:03] It's kind of odd. Sarah: [14:05] So, this week's question comes from Dixon Chance. A show of your choosing is going to add a Batman-esque visual sound effect balloon, Biff, Kapow, that will appear on screen to accompany one of its signature noises. What is the show and the noise, and spell it like one would see it rendered on screen? These are our orders. Dave ran with it. Dave. Dave: [14:28] Yeah. Okay. Before I talk about my entry in here, I do want to say that as the answers are coming into the Discord channel, I started illustrating some of them. So we'll put it on social or somewhere so you can see my genius and the Poster is genius. Mine is so whenever Tim Allen goes, it's U-U-H-A-A-H-H question mark. Tara: [14:49] Uh-huh. Perfect. Dave: [14:55] Okay, that's it. Sarah: [14:55] Okay. Uh-huh. We had a ton of good entries here, as we always do. I laughed many times. It was a real Task to narrow it down, but here are our finalists, Graventi. CSI Miami could have used a big yeah On screen, and that's Y E E E E E A A H H H H H H H H all caps. I think I forgot I was going to have to read these aloud. Anyway, another excellent entry was from Erica when Buffy stakes a vamp. Boof. And that's PZZZZ H O O F. Or this was actually my favorite: whenever a vamp vamps out, there should be just a little red vamp next to their head with an exclamation mark. Dave: [15:44] Yeah. Sarah: [15:45] Leslie said that ER or any medical show for that matter, every time a defibrillator is used, all caps, zap, and then the exclamation mark and a little lightning bolt emoji on either side. Dave: [15:59] While you're still at the hospital, I think the addition to that, the sidecar to that one, is when you take the bullet out of the person, you have to absolutely drop it into the metal thing. Sarah: [16:08] Clink Uha, clink. Dave: [16:08] Tink, you need tink. Tara: [16:09] Thank you. Dave: [16:10] And it always had, yeah. We were watching something, what was it, Gilded Age, where they take the bullet out of somebody and there's no metal thing. I had medical operation blue balls. I'm like, you got to put the bullet in the metal container, or we're not done here. Sarah: [16:23] How do we know that you put it down if there wasn't a tink? Dave: [16:25] Exactly. And you can't just place it down. You have to drop it from at least half a foot up. Tara: [16:30] Of course. Dave: [16:30] So it makes a satisfying dink. Okay. Thank you for indulging me. Sarah: [16:33] Of course. And now our winner, Wrightwood, who nominated twenty four all caps. Boop, beep, period. Boop, beep, period. Boop, beep. Well done. Well played, everyone, but Rightwood, you've got some stickers coming to you. So DM Dave on Discord to collect. And thank you, everybody. That little vamp just made me just made me laugh a lot. Dave: [16:59] I don't know who it is. I'm going to guess it was Lucy, but she suggested Tara that every time Lazzlo turns into a bat and he goes bat, and then that's something on screen. Tara: [17:07] Mhm. Yep, love that. Dave: [17:08] I enjoyed that one. It is time for your questions for us. First one comes from new listener, never not Mike. He's got a bunch of questions, and so I'm just going to answer him in turn His first question, he wants to know about the steel meals. How do they work? And then, generally, how does the season operate? So, steel meals are one of the things that was pretty simple to start off with, but of course became more complicated over time. Which is, if you get steel meals, and we'll explain how you get them in a sec, during the show, you actually have to scrape steel meal before I start blathering out the answer as I bulldoze through the quiz. So that's challenge number one. You have to actually do it really fast. And then we introduced Eric's meal because people were saying the value guest didn't have enough steel meals because value guests are terrible at game time, generally speaking. So. We had to introduce a bonus one. So every week they get an Eric steel mill and if they don't use it, it doesn't bank. So that's the steel mill situation You can also earn them winning tiebreaker things. And sometimes, if you do something really great, once in a while, I skip the dave point and go straight to a steel mill First person to win five games wins the game time season. That's how that ends. All right. His second question: What is the origin of the Chen Chek-in Past and future guest Dave Chen. You may know Dave from the decoding TV stuff online. And he just said, it would be great if we should know whether to watch the show or not before you get into the first spoiler So that's what that does. It's just like if you're gonna watch the show and then come back to the segment, that's for you. Number three, when you do a tiny cannon for something like the best scenes with an amputation. Spile that away. Is there an actual list you adhere to? Are the categories for the tiny canon made up each time by the presenter? Generally, yes, they are made up by whoever submits it. Management reserves right to change it a little bit so it's easier for future things to fall under it. And finally, when I learned of the canon, I went in to see some of the inductees. There were two I immediately went to ensure they were in there. Breaking Baz Ozymandius was his first. It is indeed in there. But his second question is: How the hell? How the hell? Jesus Christ, you people, how the hell? A man works hard for his trash. How the hell is Mad Men's The Suitcase Not in the Canon? We had a little debate about this. We're all sure it was, but it's not. Tara: [19:25] It's not. We all of our research confirmed it isn't. So it sounds like Mike needs to make a canon submission because Is it cake? Dave: [19:32] When you ask a question like that, it's the universe's way of telling you, get busy. Okay. Ambrose Chappell. Science fiction tells us that aliens are out there receiving our TV signals and learning about humanity from them. Which TV show is most confusing to these aliens? Okay. Tara: [19:52] They're just wondering why we don't know. Dave: [19:54] Oh, I see. Tara: [19:54] Sarah. Dave: [19:55] I thought they were as befuddled as we were by the artistry of the cake makers. Tara: [19:58] No, I think they're curious why we need a show to tell us what is and is not cake. Seems like something we should know. Dave: [20:05] Okay. But but okay, not to get into the weeds here, but if they're an advanced civilization, don't you think there's a point in their past? Tara: [20:10] Uh-huh. Dave: [20:12] Where they had a similar concept to Is It Cake and is part of the historical record now? Tara: [20:15] No. I hope they leapfrog that stage of development. Dave: [20:22] For us, we know the Romans had gladiator games, but we don't, you know, and so it's that sort of thing. Tara: [20:24] Uh-huh, yeah. Hmm. Dave: [20:27] It's in their past. All right, Sarah, what do you got? Sarah: [20:29] Roswell. They think that's what we're like? Dave. Dave: [20:33] All right, so I'm going to tell you it's not ancient aliens because they got everything right. Tara. Side for the Ancient Aliens quiz. Tari Ariano, you have to answer these questions brought forward by the Ancient Alien credits. Sarah: [20:42] Oh no, no So glad it's not my ass in the jackpot for that because I always forget the gold part that I'm like, what was it again? Dave: [20:46] Who were they? Tara: [20:47] Aliens, gold, us, they're still here. Dave: [20:48] Why did they come? What did they leave behind? Where did they go? Will they return? Tara: [20:54] I just said they're still here. Dave: [20:55] Yeah. There's the other piece of lore you have to learn today. Whenever Ancient Aliens is answered, Tara has to see if she remembers the answers to the questions presented by early. It's credits. Yes, gold. Tara: [21:13] Mhm. Dave: [21:15] Yes, gold. Sarah: [21:15] Tritium? Tara: [21:15] Yeah. Dave: [21:16] They love gold and knowledge. Tara: [21:18] I've said this before. There was a time when Dave was watching this so much in bed that I was able to answer the questions on time with my eyes closed just based on the music. Dave: [21:27] Yeah. That's true. Sarah: [21:30] Mm-hmm. Dave: [21:31] First time you did it, I was so proud of you. All right. Another, not this one, having mastered space-time, they are not confused by the first season of The Witcher, which was basically. showing us episodes out of order as a choice. But because, you know, they don't experience time like we do, it just seemed fine to them. Tara: [21:46] Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Dave: [21:50] T V has already actually answered this for us. Clip: [21:56] Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply eat the other five? Perhaps they are saving that for sweeps Enough! Dave: [22:06] That was Lur from Futurama. All right, Dixon Chance is back. In the light of the announcement that hard and flinty Jamie Lee Curtis may be starring in a reboot of Murder, she wrote. Who is an actual cozy and comfortable veteran actress you'd like to see in the role? First of all, shots fired Jamie Lee Curtis, if you're wondering. Tara: [22:27] That's fair. Dave: [22:28] Hard and flinty? You don't think she can not do hard and flinty? Tara: [22:30] Not really. Dave: [22:31] Okay. So, Sarah, start us off here. Who are you replacing the rumored hard and flinty Jamie Lee Curtis with in your reboot? Sarah: [22:39] Well, honorable mention to the polyp that you are trying to give yourself and your Throat with the voices today, but my actual answer is: Connie Britton. She is exactly the same age right now that Lansberry was when she started in the original role. Britain is cozy as hell, but not unformidable. Just move the series to Cactus Cove, Texas. Done and done. Dave. Dave: [23:01] I got a few. My first choice out of the gate was who Leotar is. Tara: [23:05] Yep, yep, wanna see it. Sarah: [23:07] Uh-huh. Dave: [23:07] Actual thing I could sell to the networks would be Lisa Koudra. I think she would be good in it. Tara: [23:10] Uh-huh. Sarah: [23:11] Oh, yeah, okay. Dave: [23:13] After Section thirty one, I think Michelle Yeo can take a win. Sarah: [23:13] Uh-huh. Tara: [23:16] Mm-hmm. Dave: [23:17] Other candidates, Joan Cusack. Sarah: [23:17] Mhm. Tara: [23:20] Mm, I like that. Sarah: [23:20] Mm-hmm. Dave: [23:21] Yeah, Leah Thompson, Edie Falco. Tara: [23:22] Mm-hmm. Ah! Sarah: [23:23] Huh. Tara: [23:24] You would take Leah Thompson off the chicken sisters, you son of a bitch? Dave: [23:27] Oh, I didn't realize she was on the Chicken Sisters. Tara: [23:29] She is, but it's only eight episodes, so she could probably do both. Dave: [23:30] Sorry. Okay, a few. Edie Falco, Laurie Petty. Tara: [23:34] Mm. Interesting. Dave: [23:36] I don't know. Tara: [23:36] Mm. Dave: [23:37] No, not Laurie Petty? Tara: [23:37] She's she's harder and flintier than Jamie Lee Curtis to me. Dave: [23:40] Don't you think she could be like a good? Sarah: [23:41] And annoying as fuck as well. Dave: [23:43] All right. Well, fuck you, Petty. And of course, my real answer for all these sort of things where I have to cast an actress is Tilda Swinton. As Jessica Fletcher. Sarah: [23:52] Mm, yep, would watch. Tara: [23:54] Yes, she is cozy and comfortable for sure. Sarah: [23:57] Mm-hmm, yes. Tara: [23:57] That's what we all think of when we think Tilda Swinton, not beautiful grasshopper. Dave: [24:07] But you have to play it out. If she's trying to be cozy and small town charm, how utterly creepy that would be and fun to watch Okay, all right, Tara, who's your guess? Tara: [24:16] Well, I mean, my first was one that was actually reported in 2013, which was Octavia Spencer was going to do it. Dave: [24:23] Yep. Sarah: [24:24] Oh, yeah. Tara: [24:24] Which I think would be good, although she's got her whole true crime network to produce now, so she doesn't need to mess with fictional crime, I guess But my actual answer is someone who would never get it because she is so unfamous, a veteran character actress, that I had to look up her name. Sarah: [24:28] Mhm. Tara: [24:40] And if I have to look up your name, you're not famous enough to be in a network series. That said This person is Cleo King. She played Aunt Lou on Deadwood. She was comfortable and cozy enough to be nice to the worst man in the world, George Hearst But she also showed up in the episode of Friends, where after Rachel gives birth as a lactation consultant. So she has that kind of gentle, like, just give her a chance, she'll figure it out, kind of energy. So I think she would be good. If she ever could, which she couldn't. Dave: [25:11] Damon has a question for us. Which series that never got made or aired would you love to review? So Anybody want to take a guess what my answer is? It comes up about once every 18 months on this show, because I'm reminded about how excited I was for how stupid this thing sounded, and then it never happened. Tara: [25:28] I'm sure you did, and I can't I can't recall. Sarah: [25:28] Hmm. Dave: [25:30] It's a show they actually shot the pilot for, and it had a season commitment. Sarah: [25:30] I can't either. Tara: [25:33] Uh-huh. Dave: [25:35] And then Fox was like, no, this sucks. It was a little show called Hieroglyph. Tara: [25:40] Oh, yeah, right. Dave: [25:40] Remember Hieroglyph? Sarah: [25:41] Oh, yeah, that thing. Tara: [25:42] Yes, of course. Dave: [25:43] So hieroglyph, if you don't know about it, was basically a network version of Rome, but set in ancient Egypt And to hear the pilot description, it was all that, but it was also a little bit of a cop procedural somehow in ancient Egypt. But also, it had supernatural elements, like the trailer for the pilot shows a Egyptian vampire, which when you have so many things to choose from, maybe Egyptian mythology, why are you bringing vampires into this? So all these sort of choices made me very excited for the debut of Hieroglyph because it sounded like an absolute Train wreck, but unfortunately, they pulled the plug before the pilot, which was scheduled and had commercials on air for it. They were just like, ooh, no. Tara: [26:28] Gosh, mm. Dave: [26:29] From the writer of Pacific Rim. Tara, we could have had a Pacific Rim Ancient Egypt show, but. Oh, also, everything I just explained to you, somehow the lead actor is white. Tara: [26:39] Oh, of course. Of course. In twenty eleven, John Hoffman, who went on to co-create Only Murders in the Building with Steve Martin Pitched a show called Tilda, which is going to be a fictionalized dramedy about a Nikki Fink type journalist. Nikki Fink, of course, the founder of Deadline. Sarah: [26:55] Okay. Tara: [26:57] com. It was going to star Diane Keaton in the title role of Tilda, not Tilda Swinton. And it was going to be on HBO. Like this was in prime HBO, what are we going to do post-Sopranos era? Got a big splash and then it just never happened. So there's a story on Hollywood Reporter about what went wrong and how it fell apart. So we'll link that in the show notes. But that's mine. Sarah. Sarah: [27:22] Well, I am m mad that the J. Edgar Spinoff of Bosch isn't the one that happened, but my real answer is that I don't know if anyone remembers this, but there was a live-action series for the CW. Quote, based on characters from the 1998 animated series The Powerpuff Girls, this like needle threading is really interesting. Like, they have the same names, it's just live action. This was first announced in August 2020. The Powerpuff girls were all going to be, quote, disillusioned 20-somethings, resentful at having lost their childhood to crime fighting. Production started on a pilot in spring of 2021. A month later, the announcement came that the pilot would be reworked. And then in 2023, the project was reported to no longer be in development, ostensibly because that media group had acquired the CW, but the trailer leaked online. Earlier this year, and I don't think it had anything to do with the merger. It's just misguided and bad And I am glad that it got killed, but I'm pretty sure we talked about it because past guest of the main show, Diablo Cody, you know, it's billed as from Oscar winner Diablo Cody. Donald Faison, I think, is They're bad, like every choice they made for this was wrong, and I would have loved to get paid to kick it through some goal posts. Some things are fine as they are, and you don't have to have fucking Buttercup getting drunk and barfing off the side of her friend's bed. In the trailer, no So bad. We will link to that trailer on YouTube in the show notes. It's really, you'll think that it can't possibly be that bad. It is. Dave: [29:13] Bezo or Laura, which TV show from before Extra Hot Grade existed do you wish you could have talked about on the podcast when it first premiered? Tara: [29:22] The Real World, the first season of The Real World, just 'cause it was So different from everything that came before. And we couldn't know when we were talking about it when it first premiered how much it would influence further developments in the TV space. So, and it was just like so exciting and kinetic. I re-watched That first season, it's on Paramount Plus, or it was at the time before they did the homecoming season in during the pandemic. This was like 2021, I think. And it was Weird, but it still was compelling TV, even though I'd watched it several times already by that point. So, yeah, the real world, Dave. Dave: [29:57] For all the same reasons I had put the Osbournes. Tara: [30:01] Yep. Dave: [30:01] For some moment in reality television history, and probably just T V history, period. That that show just changed the landscape for years and years. There were so many Osbourne alikes for the next five years. Tara: [30:14] Oh, there's there still are. Dave: [30:15] There's still, yeah. I mean, I guess the Osbourne's gave birth to the Kardashians. Tara: [30:16] I mhm. Sarah: [30:16] Mhm The Chrizleys, yeah. Tara: [30:20] Yeah. I watched a terrible one last year called At Home with the Furies about a fighter of some kind. I already forget whether he's UFC or what, but yeah, it was bad. Dave: [30:32] All right, Sarah, what do you got here? Sarah: [30:34] Tons of candidates, but I actually went with something scripted. The wire, it had me by like ten minutes into The first episode, but a lot of people sort of struggled to get into it. The many comments about how the show taught you how to watch it were, I think, off-putting to people. Not everybody was sold by the first episode. I won't pretend I understood everything that I was even seeing in the early going, but I think it would have made a fascinating conversation for the main show to be like, well, what'd you think? How How do you think the world building was? Like, did you read David Simon's Homicide? Like, all of these topics I think would have been fascinating to To talk about in the very beginning. And I came to The Wire quite late. I think I borrowed DVDs from you guys, actually. Not sure. I might have gotten them from Netflix because I'm an old lady. But yeah, that just would have been a really interesting conversation to, especially now, like look back at and be like, were we right? Did we get it right about the wire? Dave: [31:36] All right. Next question comes from Seken. You have to have the breakfast of one television character. Who is it? And what are you they having? Sarah, breakfast. Sarah: [31:47] I mean, I don't eat breakfast, so I was tempted to be like, Jessica Jones, shot a booze. But after watching Sidney scare up lunch for her niece on the bear, I think I would like to go to hers for a very simple omelette. Sprinkle of cheese and scallions, maybe. Piece of fresh pumpernickel, black coffee. I think she would do it right, and it would be sort of soothing to watch her make it as well. Tara. Tara: [32:12] Uh, Smurfette, she's having Smurfberry Crunch, of course. Yes, this was commercially available in our world, but I'm sure the farm-to-table version of Smurfberry Crunch is much more delicious. Sarah: [32:23] The farb to table version. Tara: [32:26] Dave, yeah. Dave: [32:27] I'm just going to go with Cookie Monster so you can have cookies for breakfast. And that concludes our food talk. Clip: [32:34] I'm so sick and tired of hearing you people talk about food, food, food. Dave: [32:38] Jovial Gent has our next question. What childhood toy that never became a Saturday morning cartoon show would you like to see adapted into one? And which actor would you cast for this toy? I'm going to go with Jarts. It's a horror show set in the months leading up to their ban in 1988. Sarah. Sarah: [32:57] Play-Doh, Fuzzy, Pumper, and Beauty Shop. With Seth Rogen as father, Edie McClarigus mother, and Ryan Hansen as brother, it's sort of a riff on Toy Story. And what The like play-doh fam gets up to when the human kids are at school/slash tired of the fuzzy pumper mechanism clogging immediately because totally does. Dave: [33:17] I forgot to mention who would play the charts, so I was trying to figure out Angular people. Tara: [33:19] Hmm. Dave: [33:22] How about the how do you say his name? Domhol Gleason? Tara: [33:24] Donald. Dave: [33:25] Donald? Tara: [33:25] Yep. Sarah: [33:25] Donald Gleason Mm-hmm. Tara: [33:25] Mm-hmm. Dave: [33:26] Yeah. Okay. That's what we're doing. Tara: [33:28] Yep. Dave: [33:28] He's a chart. Tara: [33:30] Get ready for Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson as cup and ball. Dave: [33:36] All right. Whoa, who's who? Tara: [33:39] Matthew McConaughey's Cup, Woody Harrelson is ball. Dave: [33:41] Correct. Sarah: [33:42] Yep. Dave: [33:42] Erica has our last question. Five seconds ago, I took off my headphones just in time to hear one coworker say to the other, You got more butt than you got grits. Well, the literal meaning of the sentence is not terribly difficult to parse. The volume of grits she was eating at the time was smaller than the volume her sit upon. What meaning do you think my coworker was trying to convey? Sarah. Sarah: [34:06] I really don't know. It sounds like it's in the neighborhood of All Hat, no cattle. But like, how often do you have more grits than you have but? And maybe she was talking about a pork But that had been simmering in the grits? I just don't know. I would have to ask follow-up questions to coworker number one, honestly, and coworker number two, because you're eating grits at work. You are living right. Dave. Dave: [34:34] I think it just means you have a big ass. You got a bowl of grits in front of you, and your ass is bigger than this bowl of grits. No? Tara: [34:40] I was with Sarah. I thought it was something akin to your mouse writing checks, your butt can't cash. Sarah: [34:42] Whose isn't? Dave: [34:46] Oh, all right. I'm gonna go with big ass. Messy one has your ask asky HG question, dear listeners. When you are out and about, do you ever see something that requires you to sing part of a song about it, either with real lyrics or your own? For instance, whenever I walk by the personal watermelons at the grocery store, I must sing your own personal watermelon from Depeche Mode. Oh, you want to do it, Tara? Thumbs down on Zoom. Go ahead, please. Tara: [35:15] It's not thumbs down to your singing. It's thumbs down to that scanchion. That doesn't fit. It's bad lyric writing. Dave: [35:23] Yeah, but it's all right. Tara: [35:23] Do better. Dave: [35:25] Well, I hope you're not the judge this week. Tara: [35:27] Guess what? Dave: [35:27] Harsh. Tara: [35:27] I am. Dave: [35:28] Oh boy. All right. Well, go to the Discord Ask Ask ESG channel. That's where you Plop him down. Apparently, Tara is already the judge next week, which doesn't make any sense because we have the wheel we spin that goes real, real, real, wheel, real, wheel. Tara: [35:40] Bake sail on the King's Way. Dave: [35:43] Things way. Oh, that is a good one. It is time for the tiny cannon I am presenting this wee I'm going to bring you the first of what I believe is going to be a series of things in which I tried to shoehorn the notion of tiny tude into a tiny cannon to bring you the tiny, tiny canon. Today we will talk about the T B debut of seven foot former A B A player Ron Taylor, aka, professionally known as Tiny Ron. To say as an actor he got worked because of his height might be an understatement. His credits include Mountain, Tall Man, Tall Suspect, Rock, Giant, Jocko the Giant, and Sasquatch in the 2006 hit movie Sasquatch Mountain But before we do all that, dear friends, he would get his acting career started on the set of Police Squad. I love that show, but I can't place that guy's face That's because he played Al, an officer at Drebin's Precinct, and he's so tall that his head is always out of frame. In the first episode of the show, we meet Al's neck to waist in the epilogue handing the detectives a report This is a visual joke, but the sound you hear at the end of the clip is half a banana. Clip: [36:59] Hi, Frank. Hey, Ed. Just got back from the arrayment. Sally Decker is going to have to get her teeth straightened in the Statesville prison from now on. And there'll be plenty of time to do it, too. Get something in the side of your mouth, Al. No, no, no, the other side. Dave: [37:21] That's that's the joke. Sarah: [37:23] Uh, So good. Dave: [37:23] Tall man doesn't know he has half a banana stuck to his face. At first, he gets the wrong side, which is the comedy gold of it. It's a great joke, so good, they actually reused it wholesale in the movie The Naked Gun About like eight years later, or whatever the gap was between that. So, that is it. It is a shoehorn, tiny, tiny cannon, the first of many. I know of at least three I'm ready to present to you. But this one is Al from Tiny Ron from Police Squad. Tara: [37:50] Thank you, Dave. I'll go first. I love this. You know, there's not a ton to say about it. It's such a small moment, tiny, if you will, from tiny. But I love the clunk even better in pure only audio form because even though half a banana is soft, it's falling from a great, great height. Dave: [38:07] Yeah. Tara: [38:09] So that's why it's so loud, the clunk on the desk. Sarah: [38:09] Yeah. Dave: [38:13] But also the elastic properties of the banana being so low, it has a very unsatisfying hitting the table moment. Tara: [38:17] Yes. Yes. Dave: [38:20] As compared to like something else that could bounce around for a bit, the low energy of the banana sort of going thump and then thump, but you only get one skip is pretty important to the comedy of the moment, I think. Tara: [38:25] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Dave: [38:32] Yeah. Tara: [38:32] It also speaks to how joke dense the Full episode is that they don't need to linger on it. They don't give us a closer shot of what fell. They don't track it to it. The banana is also like it's not very visual. Like it doesn't look like much. It kind of fades into the scene once it falls. It's not like, oh, you have an orange slice on your cheek or something where it would have stood out more. Just the assurance of like, we don't need to point to this too much. It happened. Let's move on. There are seven more jokes in the last minute of this show that we have to get to. So I I love it. Dave: [39:06] The most they ever do with the Zucker Abram Zucker stuff is they sort of just have this ever so slight pause as the character's brains reset after something. Sarah: [39:16] Mm-hmm. Tara: [39:17] Yeah. Dave: [39:17] That is sort of the better version, the way better version of Jim Helper taking seven seconds to stare into the camera, which is how they telegraphed that thing just happened. Sarah: [39:17] Yeah. Tara: [39:24] Yep. This episode was submitted to the canon in Mark I by Adam Sternberg, and it was not voted in. I believe I voted no. And I, this, I know, I really, I watching this again, I was like, what the fuck was wrong with me? Sarah: [39:35] What I feel like I listened to that episode and was like legit shocked, stunned and saddened that you were on the wrong side of history. Tara: [39:40] I really regret it. Dave: [39:40] Those were early days where we were sort of like, how many of these are we going to do? Tara: [39:44] Right. Dave: [39:45] Not 500 plus. So we were being a lot more choosy. I believe I said no to it, even though I loved this show because it at the time I thought we were like more gravitating towards important eye television. Tara: [39:54] Mm yeah. Dave: [39:57] And this was like not quite like the essential thing. Tara: [39:58] Um I think Joe and I voted no and you voted yes. Dave: [40:00] So. Tara: [40:02] But I would I mean, I haven't listened to that episode, obviously, since it happened in the 90s or whenever it was. Dave: [40:04] No, it could have been, but I feel like I was being more snooty about it back then. Yeah. What the fuck? Yeah. Tara: [40:18] I can listen and learn and say I would do better now, but yeah. I did check it because I was like, I thought we weren't doing tiny canons from canon episodes. And then was like, oh, right. Whoops. Anyway, Sarah. Sarah: [40:29] Yeah, this is a no-brainer for me. I know I only had to watch the epilogue, but of course I watched the entire episode and just was. Dying, like the joke density really is amazing. And I think the salient point in terms of like the little like banana hitting a file folder moment Is exactly what Dave was saying, that like the two other characters in the scene clock it and are like, like, this is something that happens to them every day, that like entire potatoes are falling out of out of Tiny's mouth, you know, bouncing off the desk and rolling off on the floor, and they're just used to it. This is an iconic Visual and surrealist, wacky comedy reference that I make frequently, probably because I know that Dave is going to be on this wavelength with this. Particular, like you know, you can only see his chin, and they're like just standing there in the credits. There is another credits where they're all just standing there doing that thing where they're frozen while the credits roll, and then another half a banana falls out. Like this comes back up again, but this debut version of it is fantastic. So, yeah, no notes, sure. Dave: [41:42] All right, so shall we put this to the vote? Tara: [41:44] Yes. Dave: [41:45] All right, Tari Ariana, what say you? Tara: [41:47] Yay. Dave: [41:48] Sarity Bunting. Sarah: [41:49] Yay! Dave: [41:50] All right, so Tiny Ron's T V debut from Police Squad. You are hereby inducted into the extra hot great tiny, tiny cannon. Clip: [42:02] Americans love a winner. Yup. And will not tolerate a loser. Nope. Dave: [42:07] It is time to discover who are our choices for a not quite winner and not quite loser of the week. I will go first with our not-quite winner of the week at Star Trek fans, as the in-development TV sequel to one of the best Star Trek movies ever has apparently survived the Paramount Skydance merger. With the news that Galaxy Quest is staying put at CBS Studios, where they also make Strange New Worlds, which is like 15% Galaxy Quest as it is. So they will have a 115% Galaxy Quest hopefully sometime next year. So this is a classy, not quite loser problem for King of the Hill. They had a PR blast that it was becoming Disney's biggest adult cartoon premiere of all time, and they had 4. 4 million views in one week. And then the same moment, Netflix is putting out a PR release for Wednesday. And they're like, well, we got 11 times that in two less days. And we're like, okay. Tara: [43:01] Mm-hmm. Dave: [43:02] I'm glad for King of the Hill that Hulu is happy with that, but it was just like, damn, Wednesday, what a force in nature. Tara: [43:05] Mm-hmm. It's such a big hit. Dave: [43:10] Yeah. Tara: [43:10] It is crazy what a big hit it is, actually. I mean, it's not. It's very like, it's Harry Potter meets. Daria meets Frank and Weenie like it's with this IP that everyone already knows, and it's fine. I'm glad kids are having fun. Dave: [43:24] It's keeping him off the streets. Tara: [43:27] I hope it is. Sarah: [43:28] Jeez. Dave: [43:29] All right, sorry, what do you got? Sarah: [43:30] My not quite winner is Mike The Situation Sorrentino. His memoir will be adapted into a documentary at ITV America. I'm not sure what that would look like. I guess it depends on who is attached to it besides the situation. But I can say that that memoir, like technically, it's true crime. So I did carry it in the shop. And even the warehouse was sold out of it for a while after it dropped last year. So I mean, I think this is great. I think this is now his thing: like Jersey Shore family vacation, and also being an activist for substance misuse disorder and stuff like that. So, good for him. Tara: [44:12] What if you found out Alex Gibney was producing it? Sarah: [44:14] I mean, yeah, I'd be in. He might. Tara: [44:18] Taxi to the dark side to the Situations memoir. Sarah: [44:18] You don't know. Well, kind of. Yeah, the dark side meaning medium security prison. Dave: [44:27] I'm a little wary of a guy named The Situation that's been this situation for so long. I figured the situation would have resolved itself by now. Should be should be Mike Resolution Sorrentino now. Sarah: [44:35] No. Dave: [44:38] I am not a crack pot. Loser of the week, Sarah. Sarah: [44:42] You are, but not because of that. Not quite loser of the week is Dr. Phil. I mean, usually a full loser, but his company filed for bankruptcy. Last month, I think, and now he's whinging that his bankruptcy creditors are using disrespectful language in court filings. Dave: [44:53] Oh, really? Sarah: [45:00] And, like, one of the creditors is like the official rodeo. Tara: [45:05] Yeah, professional bull riding. Dave: [45:07] Wait, what? Sarah: [45:07] Yeah, Professional Bull Riding and Trinity Broadcasting Network, which is a Christian broadcaster, that he's like, they're being mean in court filings. Tara: [45:07] Mhm. Sarah: [45:16] And it's like, you know what? Shut up. Dave: [45:19] Wow. Sarah: [45:19] Just shut up. That would probably resolve this situation. Tara: [45:22] It might. My not quite winners of the week are Corinne Masia and Elijah M. Cooper. They play Athena's children on 911, and they have been promoted to be series regulars Starting next season, which is season nine. Oh my god, I cannot, like, as boring as I thought. Sarah: [45:40] Oh, my God. Tara: [45:44] Um, oh my god, he's so boring, I already forgot his forgot his character name, Bobby. As boring as I thought Bobby was, and they killed him off at the toward the end of last season. If you haven't watched by now, you don't actually care about 9-1-1, so I'm not worried about spoiling it for you. He was super dull. His marriage to Athena was never convincing. All of that said, that doesn't mean I want to see more of her kids instead. They are even more boring. Like, this is a bad call. Dave: [46:09] Yeah, because they were just danger vessels. Tara: [46:12] They were, yes, exactly, yes. Dave: [46:12] That was their role, is to do stupid things, to get in trouble, to get kidnapped, or whatever that storyline was. And now they're characters? Are they going to like learn from their mistakes and they're like super first responders? Tara: [46:23] I don't Yeah. Dave: [46:23] They're pre-responders, they know beforehand. It's like minority report. Tara: [46:27] Well, there that there was that season when the daughter was a 911 operator, right? So I assume that they're just Sending her back to do that more for, you know, when Jennifer Love Hewen wants to have another baby or something. Dave: [46:32] Yeah. Isn't there hiring policies at this place? It seems like they should be getting so many jobs, people that family members. Tara: [46:41] Yeah. Well, anyway. Dave: [46:43] I'm just saying. Tara: [46:46] My not quite loser of the week is Tori Spelling. On the Who Weekly podcast, they refer to this thing that celebrities do as podcast mouth, where they just have so many hours to fill. They have to tell stories. They probably shouldn't, and that no one should have to hear. And Tori Spelling has two podcasts so far, one of which is called Misspelling, and we've spoken about it before. A lot of the times it's just I believe her on mic like monologuing like does not always have guests regardless she somehow is still finding new terrible stories to tell so from the files of peed in one of her baby's diapers when she was stuck in traffic we get Her dog Muso, she she peed in a diaper in her car. Dave: [47:25] Wait, she did, or the dog did. She did. I just want to make that clear because you mentioned the dog, and it's worse than the dog, guys. Tara: [47:31] Yes. No, it's the dog. Dave: [47:34] It's her. Just went on the floor like a civilized being. Tara: [47:38] I said that's definitely what they do because she doesn't walk her pets. But she told a story about being in a hotel room in Toronto. Dave: [47:45] Miller. Tara: [47:46] With her then-husband Dean McDermott, and they were like in bed watching TV and heard something. Muso was chewing on something. Oh, did he get a bone or something? What is it? She claims it was a severed human big toe. And I originally, when I read this, thought, oh, they were out on a walk and like he found it, like snuffling around. Dave: [48:06] Wilds of Mississauga Oh, we put you in the Akuza suite. Tara: [48:07] Exactly. Even though I know, as I already said, Tori doesn't walk her dogs. Sarah: [48:09] Yeah, but Yeah. Tara: [48:11] But apparently, it was in the room. She says when she let the hotel know, they were like, oh, crazy, do you want to change rooms? And she didn't. They were like, offered her a credit. So I don't know if she brought her own toe and planted it so that she could get it for free. Dave: [48:24] Yeah. All right. Odds that it was just a big carrot. Tara: [48:33] Fifty fifty. Sarah: [48:35] Putting the toe back in the tobacco. Tara: [48:35] Yeah, was it didn't toe Ron Toe? Sarah: [48:41] Toe run toe Oh my God. Dave: [48:41] Wow. Tara: [48:43] Anyway, she put the toe in Tori with this one. Dave: [48:44] Scarb Tro Well, first of all, I wish him all the best luck when he goes to his local restaurant I think that's what is that? Tara: [48:50] I'm sort of like, never stop, and then I'm also like, please stop forever. Welcome in, Grandpa's. You missed about an hour of Talk about severed toes. Wouldn't you like to know in what context? Sure, you would. We also talked about police squad in the tiny tiny cannon. We answered questions about grits and other breakfasts and T V from the past. You miss a lot. We are again I keep saying it because it keeps being true. Tantalizingly close to hitting our next campaign goal. If like four of you kick up your pledges, we're going to probably get there. Extraheartgate. com/slash club. Today's extra credit topic is Tara Me forces everyone to watch David Susskind interview Mary Tyler Moore. So I last weekend finally got around to watching the HBO documentary. Being Mary Tyler Moore. And it kicks off with a clip from this interview that was so shocking that I sought out to see if the full interview Was anywhere on the internet, and it is. So, this is from March 1st, 1966. At the point when they're speaking, it's Clearly, it has been announced that the Dick Van Dyke show is ending, although the series finale won't air for another three months after this episode. So she's, you know, possibly finished shooting it. They talk about her moving to New York. So this was the era of the 32 episode sitcom season. So yeah, she's t the the actual end as far as the viewer is concerned is a long way off, but maybe in the rear view for her There are some pleasantries about her recent move to New York. At this point, her second husband, Grant Tinker, had gotten a fancy new job. He was a network executive who went on to run Mary Tyler Moore's production company starting in 1969. Nice. I would say the first moment that really situates us in another time is when she says they had hired a housekeeper who disappeared before they moved into their new place. Susskind educates her about, as he puts it, the servant problem in New York. And so this is A real thing, I guess, was happening at the time. It doesn't get booed by the audience of apparently ladies, so you know, I guess they agree There's some very expected questions about how much she is or isn't like Laura Petrie, her Dick Van Dyke show character, and then after that, things get wild. Clip one. Clip: [51:19] Was the wife you played there kind of an idealization of the American wife? There there is no such woman. Most of them are wretched nags. Yes, I think we all have our moments. Some of us have the the nagging of personality come to the fore more often than others. But Laura Petrie broke down and cried and she used ploys to get her way and she was nasty and short tempered and she was also sweet and soft and she was many things. Oh no. I I think she was sort of a a strained idealization of the American woman, as she thinks she is, but that had no connection with reality. I mean, the woman that's talking all the time in a restaurant. I claim that you can walk into an average restaurant, and if you have observed life enough, American female-male relationships, you can look in the restaurant and tell who's married and who's single. Where the woman is just yakking like crazy and the man has a hurt, bored expression and he's chomping his food. They're real married. I know. I know. And where she's listening and he's just elocution, and she's just wide-eyed and attentive, they're engaged. Yes. Or she hopes to get married. Yes. And uh that whole posture. They're both selling. They're both selling like mad. Tara: [52:34] Most wives are wretched nags, he says. I was so stunned by this. What were your feelings at this point in the interview? Sarah: [52:48] The whole segment up top about, you know, the housekeeper vanished, and now all these cartons are here, and we haven't had anything painted. And da da da, and I was like, this is such a disappearingly small Segment of the population, but I guess in the chattering class, which they literally are doing, that wasn't that uncommon. This is also like the New York City that is on the brink of going to absolute hell. So it's like Okay, that yeah, that must be hard in your classic six to not have things painted like you had hoped. Sigh. But she did make some interesting points about the differences for Her as a famous person or like a public figure living in LA versus New York City, fine. But his whole like You could just see her eyes cut a couple times, and this is not the first time it happens. Like, she's clearly, she clearly does not. Like him, and he is not having any of her charms. And it was at this point that I was like, Are we watching this because she cuts a bitch? Because I hope so. Dave: [54:00] R-E-S-T-R-I-N-T, restaurant. Tara: [54:01] Rest rent, yes, exactly. Dave: [54:03] Yes, restaurant. Sarah: [54:04] Yeah. Dave: [54:05] It's a testament to Mary Tyler Moore's restraint. I think she just didn't like shiv him in the moment I mean, goddamn. Tara: [54:10] Mm-hmm. Sarah: [54:11] Mm-hmm. Tara: [54:13] Yeah. Dave: [54:13] Every once in a while you're watching Mad Men. You know, Mad Men predates all of us somehow, even though we're very old and we're your pop culture elders It's real. Tara: [54:17] Mhm. Correct. Dave: [54:22] They're not making shit up. Tara: [54:23] Yeah. Sarah: [54:23] Oh yeah, My mother always watched Mad Men and was like, this is basically a documentary. Dave: [54:24] And they're not exaggerating because here is a very powerful Hollywood personality that has. Tara: [54:25] No. Mhm. Dave: [54:31] Starred in one of the biggest TV shows of all time to that point and is moving towards the next big one. They don't know that as taping, but that is her trajectory And she's being treated by this guy. There was not a murder on stage is very impressive. I mean, I was feeling it, and this is 50 years later. Yeah. Sarah: [54:54] Like, she worked in media marketing and was like, yeah, just constantly being Spoken to that way. But also, if only out of respect for her important husband, maybe don't be so dismissive and shitty. Like, why do you have her on the show then? Tara: [55:12] Noteworthy is that he got divorced from one lady and married to another lady, both in this year. So I would love to know at what point. Of the process he was when this interview happened. Sarah: [55:25] Yeah, what uh are you bored at the restaurant currently, or are you holding forth while she pretends to be fascinated so that she can get her hands on your checkbook, you fucking jackass? Tara: [55:27] Yeah. Or is. Yeah. I hadn't ever knowingly watched David Susskind before. I knew of him as a progressive broadcaster who Suskean, yes. Dave: [55:42] And from the song, just say the word Su, Su, Su's kind. Tara: [55:49] He featured queer people, anti-war activists During the Vietnam War and so on, you know, was sort of like a Phil Donahue before Phil Donahue. But when Donahue would ask dumb questions to sort of represent dumb people in the audience and elicit discussion, he would like to put on a voice and a manner to let us know, like, He knows better. He's not being this guy. He's just like trying it on. And like, suski is just like going hardcore for this. And like talking to a female interview subject like this is really revealing that there's a pretty big blind spot in his otherwise good politics. And it is. Women, but anyway, they go on. Moore sort of tries to save him from himself. Clip two. Clip: [56:29] I think very often when a husband and wife reach that point it's because they don't have anything to talk about really except the the surface conversation about well what happened with the kids today and there can only be so many variations on that theme. and what happened at the office. I think a wife needs to have and oh gosh, I'll probably get in trouble saying this, but I really do think more wives should investigate the possibilities of working Because I agree with Betty Friedan in her point of view in her book, The Feminine Mystique, that women are or should be human beings first, women second, wives and mothers third. It should fall in that order and that if there's enough thought and effort put into this attempt that it will not hurt the family, it will not hurt the work, that they can function very nicely together. I'm proving it. Well, how can a woman be wed to two forces in life? In other words, you're only half married if you're in show business, because that demands so much of your ego, so much investment of your energ I don't think so. I think I could waste an awful lot more energy sitting at home having nothing to do other than just talk with the girls about what gossip they've heard or just chase after the kids instead of spending time with my son because I know we don't have as much time as most parents and children have, I make good use of that time. I don't waste it. I don't nag him. I punish him if he deserves it, or I give him a good lecture, but I don't just sort of spill it. You know, I I use it. Dave: [57:57] The big difference between men and women is men like me can do two things at once. Sarah: [58:04] Mm-hmm. Dave: [58:05] We can both work and see our family. Sarah: [58:08] Yeah. Also, childcare is only work if you're doing it. Tara: [58:13] Also, you know, her husband is also in show business. Sarah: [58:13] Yeah. Tara: [58:16] I mean, he's not on camera, but he works in the industry. Is he also half married? Does not get brought up and, you know. But I do think it's interesting to see how like her facility with massaging his question with her answer, like to get to where she wants to go. And then he's like, no, not having it. Sarah: [58:35] Yeah. Dave: [58:35] No, everybody do it. Tara: [58:36] No, no. Dave: [58:37] No. Sarah: [58:38] No. Tara: [58:39] So, yeah, he's So he's got the bit in his teeth. Dave: [58:40] There's another piece of lore. Nobody knows what fucking means anymore. No. Tara: [58:48] He's not letting go. Let's hear clip three. Clip: [58:50] Don't you think working mothers, whatever their jobs, sort of shortchange their children emotionally, or even just physically, they're not there enough of the time. Sometimes it happens, but I don't let it happen that way. I refuse to travel without my son. I refuse to be separated from my husband. I'm very blessed, I'm very lucky in that I have been able to work out a career and still hold to this belief that I must stay with my husband, I must be with my child, because they happen to be more important to me than my career. What made you break it? Tara: [59:26] I think this is where she's like, fuck this guy. Sort of is like not pretending anymore because seriously, fuck this guy. Sarah: [59:34] Glad that she sort of addresses that, you know, she has a lot of privilege here, but it's like the mid-60s in a City, like most women have to work. My mother supported my parents for like three years. I mean, I think that the practicalities of this conversation were not, it didn't break down along the same lines as this conversation. Would suggest, I really have to give her credit for not murdering him, for just being so dismissive. And like, he has certain points he wants to make, he's going to ask her the question. Quote unquote, but then he doesn't care what she has to say. Tara: [1:00:10] Uh-huh. Sarah: [1:00:13] So she's like, fine, I'm just going to say what I think. Good for her. Dave: [1:00:16] I mean, we're all saying, like, why did that guy not eat Knuckle Sandwich? Saying that jokingly, but how what do you think is the line she could have Got up to? Was she at the line where if she went over it, people would be like, Oh, I don't know that Mary Tyler Moore, she sure is naggy and pushy. Like, for the time, do you think she went up to the line where she would be? Allowed to, and you know, on a public interview, or was she still holding back? Tara: [1:00:38] I think she got as close to the line as she could for someone in her position. Dave: [1:00:43] Yeah. Sarah: [1:00:43] Yeah, agree. At that time. Tara: [1:00:45] Part of why she's doing the interview at this point, and they get to it at the very end where she's talking about she's about to be in a Broadway show. So this is a different thing for her. Turned out to be it was a musical version of Breakfast at Tiffany's. Which Well, that's why it was a flop, Dave, because it had songs like that. Dave: [1:00:59] I'm eating breakfast at Tiffany's. It's so good. Uh oh, English muffin with diamonds Wait a second Look at me, I got a long cigarette holder, gonna smoke it up At breakfast at Tiffany. Tara: [1:01:10] It was, it like, it kind of. Sarah: [1:01:12] Didn't even rhyme. Tara: [1:01:13] Then get into this in the documentary, of course. Dave: [1:01:21] Sorry about that table next to me. Cigarette smoke. Tara: [1:01:25] So it kind of killed her career for a few years. She had to like, she had a deal at Universal, I think, where, you know, she had a first look. She could had right of refusal over stuff they wanted her to do. And she said, I'll waive that if you let me do this show. And they did, and then it flopped. And then she had to, like, eat shit. This is how she ended up in an Elvis movie playing a nun. because she couldn't say no anymore and was sort of in the weeds until the Mary Tyler Moore show came along in 1969. Nice. So there's a the doc is really good. She comes across as someone who was like focused on and serious about the stuff that she cared about, but didn't really identify as a feminist despite like all of the smoke the show got for being feminist. And didn't really get involved in a larger movement ever. And not that she's the final arbiter, but Gloria Stein and kind of thought that Mary Tyler Bohr show was bullshit. They have footage from a conference she was on with James L. Brooks where. She's like, why did Mary keep calling him Mr. Grant? And James L. Brooks was like the only man in the whole hall and was like, well, we just think it's respectful, you know, and everyone booze him. It's kind of great. But anyway. Sarah: [1:02:33] Well, whatever. Glorious Dynam. Like, quilts are not women's ways of knowing. Like, they are, but like, Glorious Dynam sometimes can set up against things just so that people are Paying attention to any conversation she's in, that it's like, I don't think of all people to tangle with, like, maybe leave it out. Tara: [1:02:45] Sure, of course. Of course, she's not, she's not, like I said, she's not the final word, but it's a funny moment. But yeah, when we were talking about laughing last week, you both brought up how sexist it was. And I wasn't that I disagreed. Of course, it is, but I like. Watching that wasn't expecting anything different, so it didn't really stick out to me. But the clips of this in the dock and now seeing the whole thing was, like I said, this was way more shocking to me. Not that a man in show business or like a New York intellectual could be condescending to a woman. It's that he would like act like this with someone who is famous, well liked, and beautiful. That shouldn't matter, but does. Sarah: [1:03:28] And that he seems unable to separate what she has responsibility for in terms of Laura Petrie. Like, she didn't write it, she didn't create the character. And he sort of patronizingly is like, well, is this your chance to be less of a goody-good? And if he had been able to see into the future, like my first contact with her was in ordinary people. And she's also played a lot of high-profile true crime baddies well. So it's like, I don't know, David Suskind, she's an actor. I mean, I think a lot of interviewers or critics struggle with that sometimes. But if you're going to be that snotty, you should understand that she didn't write herself. Tara: [1:04:16] Mhm. Sarah: [1:04:16] And she's not Jenny Garth. She doesn't think Laura Petrie is her. Tara: [1:04:19] Right. Dave: [1:04:21] I'll have a number four with a large orange juice, egg McMuffin, and a hash brown. Uh-oh, this is breakfast at McDonald's. Sarah: [1:04:37] No. Clip: [1:04:40] No. Dave: [1:04:41] No. Sarah: [1:04:43] No. Dave: [1:04:44] Just listen to this and try to replicate the no. Clip: [1:04:46] No. Dave: [1:04:48] It is fucking impossible if you really pay attention. Sarah: [1:04:50] If really is. Dave: [1:04:52] Alright, guys, that is it for another episode of Extra Hot Great. Sarah: [1:04:52] Can't spell it either. Dave: [1:04:58] We talk the trade craft. The spy thriller Butterfly before answering your burning Ask EHG questions like, What never-seen show would you like to have experienced? First time, and do these jeans make my grits look fat? Dave won big with this first tiny tiny cannon. We celebrated those who weren't quite the best and worst of the week, and wrap it all up with Tara's Forsening of the Siskind Mary Tyler Moore interview Next up is The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox with Eve Beatty. Remember I am David T. Clip: [1:05:31] We're listening. Ah! Dave: [1:05:35] Cole, and I'm here on behalf of Tara Ariano and Sarah D. Tara: [1:05:38] Wretched nag since 1997. Dave: [1:05:42] Bunting. Sarah: [1:05:43] I'm double married and I'm in show business. Dave: [1:05:46] And nobody else. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. Well, of course, YouTube listeners. We'll see you next time right here on Extra, Extra Hot Great. Clip: [1:05:59] I have to go, and I want you to come with me. That's what all of this is about. I can't lose you again. But it's not my decision, it's yours. Dave: [1:06:17] Dan dun dun dun dan. What else have I eaten? Sarah: [1:06:23] Fucking Diamond Dave over here. Clip: [1:06:30] This is Extra Hot Great Minis. Today's topic is the Young Blank. All right, so At Rex Rex. That's at R Y N C H N G on Twitter and follower of EHG Assist. Asks us to fill in the following blanks. The young blank starring blank. Go. Tara, Arianne Well, first I should say we had to bid farewell. Kim can only do one. Kim exploded after finishing for epic 10-minute non-stop recap Of the two-parter Little House under Prairie episode. She has children that apparently needed her attention. So she is not joining us for the rest of this week's Extra Hot Great Mini. So my young blank is. The young Rogelio, of course I'm referring to Rogelio de la Vega of Jane the Virgin. And this is a slight cheat because he already has been portrayed in his younger form on the show. But I would like to know more about him in a Carrie Diaries-esque. Backflash series starring the same kid who already has played him on that show, who is named Luis Cordova. All about the rise of Rogelio from scrub actor to Telenovella superstar, we know today. What was that journey? Let's see it. Sarah. The young Hillary, starring Kate McKinnon, with songs from Monica the Musical by our good friend. Daniel Blau Rogey. Yes, Dave. Mine is the young pope starring Carrie Washington in the Parks and Recreation-esque. Project as a young Olivia Pope as a small town political fixer, fixing things like, you know, the mayor, you like, used the wrong credit card. And you know, has to go in and get it swapped. He wants to get it before the small town paper finds out. Uh, you know, calls uh Mrs. Thompson and Mrs. Thomas and that kind of stuff. So she just goes around, just fixes small things in a small town. In a sort of Tina Fey, Amy Polar vein. We you should also say that uh Mayor using the wrong credit card is a real legit Hawaiian Island scandal that sunk a mayor that sunk a mayor it it dragged on for months and guess what he used the wrong credit card on he used the company or the or the county credit card to buy Sarah do you want to guess Um pornography. It's something Hawaiian. Nope, something Hawaiian. Big Island candies. Yeah. If only. A surfboard. True story. Aloha and mahalo.